2020-2021 NBA Thread of Insanity

[BradInATX 9208]

You're one argumentative bastard

Am not.

[HornOnTheBayou 8945]

The Heat uniforms tonight look like a gender-reveal party that went horribly wrong.

[Wulaw Horn 19147]

Harden man. This is weird and it’s a real problem. He was fucking amazing in game 1 against Portland. It’s not like he forgot how to play. He sulked. Became disinterested to get out of H-Town- I get that. He looked just fine against Milwaukee. But man, he’s only got two shots up today and it’s practically half time. Lethargic looking. I don’t get it. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

he plays basketball because he's awesome at it and because it bank rolls his preferred lifestyle. he doesn't give a shit about some random game in January. of course that's part of the reason that he's a consistent no-show in May and June. 

[Wulaw Horn 19147]

27 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

he plays basketball because he's awesome at it and because it bank rolls his preferred lifestyle. he doesn't give a shit about some random game in January. of course that's part of the reason that he's a consistent no-show in May and June. 

Man he works really hard at his game and has gotten so much better. He wasn’t a can’t miss guy and his physical gifts aren’t off the charts. I get what you are saying but he’s spent an inordinate amount of time on his craft as all the top 10 type guys in the league do. 

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

58 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Harden man. This is weird and it’s a real problem. He was fucking amazing in game 1 against Portland. It’s not like he forgot how to play. He sulked. Became disinterested to get out of H-Town- I get that. He looked just fine against Milwaukee. But man, he’s only got two shots up today and it’s practically half time. Lethargic looking. I don’t get it. 

He did the same thing in the first Cleveland game.  2 shots in the first half.  It's obvious they're going to have some growing pains as they learn to play with each other.  He's been thrust into de facto point guard and hasn't started with 2 other All-Star level players in quite awhile.  He's being deferential and trying to find his footing on another man's team.  When and how well he figures it out may hold the key in the East.

[shadow_operative 15932]

17 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Man he works really hard at his game and has gotten so much better. He wasn’t a can’t miss guy and his physical gifts aren’t off the charts. I get what you are saying but he’s spent an inordinate amount of time on his craft as all the top 10 type guys in the league do. 

listen, without spilling the beans too much, there was a reason that i knew that Harden was going to Brooklyn (and kept hinting at it here) a week before it happened. someone in my inner circle is in Harden's inner circle, and you just gotta trust me when I say that he does not love basketball like KD or LeBron- to put it mildly. i'm not saying he doesn't care at all; i'm just saying that him being hot-and-cold shouldn't surprise anyone. he is by no means a basketball junkie or a gym rat. i'd wager that the majority of NBA players take their craft a lot more seriously than he does. 

Edited January 24, 2021 by shadow_operative

[Wulaw Horn 19147]

Nets gonna fuck around and lose to this woefully undermanned heat team if they don’t watch it after being up 10-15. My bet is ultimately they will figure it out and be just fine, but they are pretty out of sorts right now. 
mare teams allowed to practice during the mid season break?  They are really in need of continuity/ getting on the same page. 

[ztejas 43528]

28 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Nets gonna fuck around and lose to this woefully undermanned heat team if they don’t watch it after being up 10-15. My bet is ultimately they will figure it out and be just fine, but they are pretty out of sorts right now. 
mare teams allowed to practice during the mid season break?  They are really in need of continuity/ getting on the same page. 

Kyrie saved them. Harden was horribad tonight. They would have been better off had he not played.

Also Nash sucks and is in over his head. He should be fired tomorrow but they will drag his ass with them until they lose in the playoffs I'm guessing. KD and Kyrie literally do just as much to coach them during games. 

Edited January 24, 2021 by ztejas

[Brothahorn 10087]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Kyrie saved them. Harden was horribad tonight. They would have been better off had he not played.

Also Nash sucks and is in over his head. He should be fired tomorrow but they will drag his ass with them until they lose in the playoffs I'm guessing. KD and Kyrie literally do just as much to coach them during games. 

Damn Z..LOL. 

 

I wasn't awed by the hire but let him at least coach half a season before you rip him. Don't forget he's got two knuckleheads and a thin skinned  superstar to deal with. He's probably still trying to figure which words won't trigger a pouting session with those guys. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Kind of like what the T-wolves did for Kevin Love who hated every femtosecond that he was stuck in the twin cities...I kid I kid.

Wtf we gave him a tribute video?

[ztejas 43528]

36 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

Don't forget he's got two knuckleheads and a thin skinned  superstar to deal with. He's probably still trying to figure which words won't trigger a pouting session with those guys. 

I'm confused. Are you disagreeing with me? This sounds like you aren't. 

And I'm sure they'll be fine and he'll get better. It just seems like a dumb experiment to give him the reins. He's been making rookie mistakes all year. 

Edited January 24, 2021 by ztejas

[d2o 1602]

10 hours ago, Brothahorn said:

Damn Z..LOL. 

 

I wasn't awed by the hire but let him at least coach half a season before you rip him. Don't forget he's got two knuckleheads and a thin skinned  superstar to deal with. He's probably still trying to figure which words won't trigger a pouting session with those guys. 

Problem is he never should have got the job in the first place.

[Wulaw Horn 19147]

48 minutes ago, d2o said:

Problem is he never should have got the job in the first place.

Why not?  Some coaches are good and some suck it’s kind of a crapshoot. Magic, Bird, Isiah al got jobs with no legwork.

This is a guy who was a star for a solid decade, a 2 time MVP and a PG who had massive responsibilities as a player. He also worked as a player development coach for a championship organization and has a bond with the best player on the team from doing that- along with some time running the Canadian national basketball program. 
That’s not Pat Riley or Phil Jackson, or even Doc Rivers, but it’s not nothing either. 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Wulaw Horn

[d2o 1602]

7 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Why not?  Some coaches are good and some suck it’s kind of a crapshoot. Magic, Bird, Isiah al got jobs with no legwork.

This is a guy who was a star for a solid decade, a 2 time MVP and a PG who had massive responsibilities as a player. He also worked as a player development coach for a championship organization and has a bond with the best player on the team from doing that- along with some time running the Canadian national basketball program. 
That’s not Pat Riley or Phil Jackson, or even Doc Rivers, but it’s not nothing either. 

If you are a championship or bust situation you shouldn't be bringing a guy in with no experience and hoping he's good.

[ztejas 43528]

13 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Why not?  Some coaches are good and some suck it’s kind of a crapshoot. Magic, Bird, Isiah al got jobs with no legwork.

This is a guy who was a star for a solid decade, a 2 time MVP and a PG who had massive responsibilities as a player. He also worked as a player development coach for a championship organization and has a bond with the best player on the team from doing that- along with some time running the Canadian national basketball program. 
That’s not Pat Riley or Phil Jackson, or even Doc Rivers, but it’s not nothing either. 

I don't know if @d2o is playing the race card - I certainly wouldn't when saying he wasn't the best hire - and maybe he pans out and sticks - but I just think they need more experience - especially now with Harden on the roster. 

I have no problem with Nash getting a gig. But getting THIS gig right off the bat is nuts. I know I said it early in the season - that he's extremely lucky. He just has to not be a complete disaster and they probably still make the ECF. The problem is thst they might need him to be a little bit better than that to get to the big dance and win it. 

Apparently he came out and said that Harden is still fat and out of shape and thats why he was dogshit last night playing his 3rd in 4 nights (okay he didn't exactly phrase it like that but that was the gist).

 

Also - my stance would be different if he wasn't making really elementary mistakes. His lineups have been pretty bad. He doesn't really understand when to call timeouts. He pulled the starters a couple weeks ago too early and wound up having to put Durant back in the game with about a minute on the clock. They elected to not foul when they should have against the Cavs in OT the other night. 

Edited January 24, 2021 by ztejas

[Wulaw Horn 19147]

14 minutes ago, d2o said:

If you are a championship or bust situation you shouldn't be bringing a guy in with no experience and hoping he's good.

That’s totally fair. Saying that particular job- not a job?  I’m ok with that. 

[Wulaw Horn 19147]

13 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I don't know if @d2o is playing the race card - I certainly wouldn't when saying he wasn't the best hire - and maybe he pans out and sticks - but I just think they need more experience - especially now with Harden on the roster. 

I have no problem with Nash getting a gig. But getting THIS gig right off the bat is nuts. I know I said it early in the season - that he's extremely lucky. He just has to not be a complete disaster and they probably still make the ECF. The problem is thst they might need him to be a little bit better than that to get to the big dance and win it. 

Apparently he came out and said that Harden is still fat and out of shape and thats why he was dogshit last night playing his 3rd in 4 nights (okay he didn't exactly phrase it like that but that was the gist).

 

Also - my stance would be different if he wasn't making really elementary mistakes. His lineups have been pretty bad. He doesn't really understand when to call timeouts. He pulled the starters a couple weeks ago too early and wound up having to put Durant back in the game with about a minute on the clock. They elected to not foul when they should have against the Cavs in OT the other night. 

All fair. He’s got Mike D on the bench if he needs to take over and drive. 

[ztejas 43528]

Just now, Wulaw Horn said:

All fair. He’s got Mike D on the bench if he needs to take over and drive. 

[SilasCoade 2622]

I have no idea if Nash is a good coach and agree he should not have been given this particular job in a championship or bust season. That said, it's hard to judge him when all of his glue guys have been traded or hurt and two of his three studs are total head cases, with at least one of them outright saying he's as much the coach as Nash is. 1997-1998 Phil Jackson would have a hard time with this roster.

[ztejas 43528]

38 minutes ago, Llogg said:

with at least one of them outright saying he's as much the coach as Nash is.

The one that coached the huddle during a timeout after Miami went on an 11-0 run to start the 4th last night, and proceeded to score 18 points down the stretch to ensure a W? 

Yeah - it must be brutal having guys like that you can call on. I'm not weeping for Nash because he has KD, Harden and Kyrie on the same team. You're the 2nd person here to now act like those 3 are getting in the way of Nash winning. You can say anything you want about them - Harden is the least proven winner and I'm not sure he's ever missed the playoffs in his career. The other 2 have more championship experience - both winning and losing - than Nash does.

[UTDD 362]

The reality is that Nash probably doesn't get hired at all without the blessing of certain players so I think they had their chance to shut that down.  Nash just needs to learn how to manage his roster and improve as best as he can for this season and beyond.  

[Brothahorn 10087]

13 hours ago, ztejas said:

I'm confused. Are you disagreeing with me? This sounds like you aren't. 

And I'm sure they'll be fine and he'll get better. It just seems like a dumb experiment to give him the reins. He's been making rookie mistakes all year. 

I'm saying it's too early to have a solid opinion about Nash's coaching abilities 18 games into his first season.  He's probably making the same mistakes that 90% of 1st year coaches make. 

 

Talented players or not, you don't just start winning titles overnight. It's a process that requires learning the players and the players learning the coaches.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Brothahorn

[SilasCoade 2622]

2 hours ago, ztejas said:

The one that coached the huddle during a timeout after Miami went on an 11-0 run to start the 4th last night, and proceeded to score 18 points down the stretch to ensure a W? 

Yeah - it must be brutal having guys like that you can call on. I'm not weeping for Nash because he has KD, Harden and Kyrie on the same team. You're the 2nd person here to now act like those 3 are getting in the way of Nash winning. You can say anything you want about them - Harden is the least proven winner and I'm not sure he's ever missed the playoffs in his career. The other 2 have more championship experience - both winning and losing - than Nash does.

This isn't fantasy sports. Managing personalities is a difficult skill when the individuals involved are not thin skinned, conspiracy theorists, or would just rather be doing something else. I'm not moving the goal posts for Nash b/c of it. This is a championship or bust team as constructed. Anything less than a trip to the Finals is a failure on his part. It's just a bit early to judge when he's trying to manage these guys instead of Bird, McHale, and Chief.

[shadow_operative 15932]

4 hours ago, d2o said:

If you are a championship or bust situation you shouldn't be bringing a guy in with no experience and hoping he's good.

ok, but who else is realistically available that's a home run hire? who are the candidates who *aren't* a crap shoot that are available and a good fit? this isn't just a "championship-or-bust" situation, this is a "managing KD, Kyrie, and now Harden" situation. who's to say that a young, in-touch, former MVP who is respected by pretty much every player (especially guards) in the league isn't the right choice for this situation? 

[aggie08 21525]

13 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

ok, but who else is realistically available that's a home run hire? who are the candidates who *aren't* a crap shoot that are available and a good fit? this isn't just a "championship-or-bust" situation, this is a "managing KD, Kyrie, and now Harden" situation. who's to say that a young, in-touch, former MVP who is respected by pretty much every player (especially guards) in the league isn't the right choice for this situation? 

Who has also been working closely with KD for a few years now. You don't bring in KD without understanding that he's going to want to sign off on the coach. He's earned that.

[goatsaag 279]

20 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

listen, without spilling the beans too much, there was a reason that i knew that Harden was going to Brooklyn (and kept hinting at it here) a week before it happened. someone in my inner circle is in Harden's inner circle, and you just gotta trust me when I say that he does not love basketball like KD or LeBron- to put it mildly. i'm not saying he doesn't care at all; i'm just saying that him being hot-and-cold shouldn't surprise anyone. he is by no means a basketball junkie or a gym rat. i'd wager that the majority of NBA players take their craft a lot more seriously than he does. 

Wait, if Harden doesn't love basketball, why is he constantly playing pickup all over the place in the offseason? You could make an argument that he isn't driven to win an NBA title as much as a Kobe or Lebron but his consistent actions every year show that he clearly loves playing basketball (and yes, he obviously loves strippers too). 

[shadow_operative 15932]

9 minutes ago, goatsaag said:

Wait, if Harden doesn't love basketball, why is he constantly playing pickup all over the place in the offseason? You could make an argument that he isn't driven to win an NBA title as much as a Kobe or Lebron but his consistent actions every year show that he clearly loves playing basketball (and yes, he obviously loves strippers too). 

the balance of work and play for Harden is drastically different from that of LeBron, KD, and plenty of other professionals who have nowhere near the talent that Harden does. he likes to hoop, and like i said, it's not like he just blows off basketball completely; but still, the balance of work and play for James Harden does not may match that of many of his upper echelon peers. 

[d2o 1602]

31 minutes ago, goatsaag said:

Wait, if Harden doesn't love basketball, why is he constantly playing pickup all over the place in the offseason? You could make an argument that he isn't driven to win an NBA title as much as a Kobe or Lebron but his consistent actions every year show that he clearly loves playing basketball (and yes, he obviously loves strippers too). 

It seems he likes to hoop but he doesn't like to do the things that would make him a better overall player.    Like working out and conditioning.   Those show in his lack of body definition and him consistently wearing out at the end of seasons.

[Wulaw Horn 19147]

6 minutes ago, d2o said:

It seems he likes to hoop but he doesn't like to do the things that would make him a better overall player.    Like working out and conditioning.   Those show in his lack of body definition and him consistently wearing out at the end of seasons.

I think this is half right. He has added all sorts of shit to his game that has taken him to super stardom. But- he also pretty clearly hasn’t sculpted his body, maximized his conditioning, nor become really conscientious about nutrition and rest like his peers that have our stripped him on winning have. 
As a fat guy I get it. That shit sucks. 

[Brothahorn 10087]

1 hour ago, goatsaag said:

Wait, if Harden doesn't love basketball, why is he constantly playing pickup all over the place in the offseason? You could make an argument that he isn't driven to win an NBA title as much as a Kobe or Lebron but his consistent actions every year show that he clearly loves playing basketball (and yes, he obviously loves strippers too). 

Because pickup is  just hooping, hanging out and having fun. No pressure, no rules. The NBA is his job. He works to live.

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

I don't even understand the narrative.  Is it Harden doesn't work as hard as other basketball greats?  If it is, and folks agree that Harden is a top 10 and maybe even top 5 player, then the premise would be that James Harden has more natural talent except for a handful of players, who have his level of natural talent plus work harder.  Not sure that was really the thought when he was coming up into college and into the pros.  He's inserted so much into his game like the step back, the euro step, the passing, etc that it seems odd to say he doesn't work, and hard, at his game or at least once did. 

Additionally, it would also require we also understand how hard other great players in the NBA work these days for an apt comparison.  I can buy he isn't consistent in his work ethic.  I can buy maybe he isn't as in love or doesn't work as hard once the individual accolades started coming in, thus becoming a bit entitled and lazy.  But it's weird to say, he's never worked hard or he never loved the game.  You don't score 36 point per game in a season at 6'5" or 6'4" or whatever he is without putting in some work, putting in some sweat, learning the game...... 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Patrick Bateman

[goatsaag 279]

49 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I don't even understand the narrative.

It really is just a lazy narrative. Harden clearly both loves the game and puts in the work. I do think it's fair to question if all of the stuff he also loves outside the game has an impact, but I don't think you can really question the amount of work he puts in at basketball.

[shadow_operative 15932]

19 minutes ago, goatsaag said:

It really is just a lazy narrative. Harden clearly both loves the game and puts in the work. I do think it's fair to question if all of the stuff he also loves outside the game has an impact, but I don't think you can really question the amount of work he puts in at basketball.

i don't question how much work he puts into basketball, i know how much work he puts into his job, and while he definitely has put in a lot of time and work towards improving his craft over the years, he still takes his craft less seriously than a lot of other guys, notably some of his peers at or near the top the league, eg Steph, KD, LeBron, Giannis, AD, et al. 

this shouldn't be a controversial take at all btw, which is why this whole debate is a bit strange to me. from his physical body ballooning right in front of you, to his well known affinity for strip clubs and opulent spending, to his annual shrinking when the games get really tough and everyone is playing at a very high level, i didn't think it was exactly breaking news to announce that James Harden doesn't take his job as seriously as a lot of other guys. like, A LOT of other guys.

from his superstar peers to his role player teammates like Gerald Green and PJ Tucker, lots and lots of NBA players take their craft/job more seriously than Harden. his diet, sleep, work habits, film watching, alcohol consumption, late nights at strip clubs, eating unhealthy food at 3 in the morning, having a rotating stable of women in every city in the road, etc, etc- it's all a part of his job and he doesn't really take it seriously, because he doesn't have to to be a great player.  it's not a hot take, it's not an opinion- it's just reality. that's James Harden.

Edited January 25, 2021 by shadow_operative

[SilasCoade 2622]

I'm very impressed with Jaylen Brown this season. Dude has made a big big jump in consistency so far. If Tatum comes back in shape they'll be a tough out. The Celtics are an interesting team to me. They don't really have a big 3 of superstars so much as an above average 4 with Tatum, Brown, and Walker all being on that superstar cusp and Smart providing a lot of value. I worry a bit about the drop off in their second unit and the lack of depth in the front court.

[shadow_operative 15932]

 

 

[d2o 1602]

12 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I don't even understand the narrative.  Is it Harden doesn't work as hard as other basketball greats?  If it is, and folks agree that Harden is a top 10 and maybe even top 5 player, then the premise would be that James Harden has more natural talent except for a handful of players, who have his level of natural talent plus work harder.  Not sure that was really the thought when he was coming up into college and into the pros.  He's inserted so much into his game like the step back, the euro step, the passing, etc that it seems odd to say he doesn't work, and hard, at his game or at least once did. 

Additionally, it would also require we also understand how hard other great players in the NBA work these days for an apt comparison.  I can buy he isn't consistent in his work ethic.  I can buy maybe he isn't as in love or doesn't work as hard once the individual accolades started coming in, thus becoming a bit entitled and lazy.  But it's weird to say, he's never worked hard or he never loved the game.  You don't score 36 point per game in a season at 6'5" or 6'4" or whatever he is without putting in some work, putting in some sweat, learning the game...... 

 

Working on his game isn't the issue.   He clearly does that.   He does have more natural talent than a huge number of players.  The issue that he has consistently faced is his conditioning in the playoffs.   His body doesn't show that he is a hard worker in the weight room and with his conditioning

Edited January 25, 2021 by d2o

[d2o 1602]

10 hours ago, Llogg said:

I'm very impressed with Jaylen Brown this season. Dude has made a big big jump in consistency so far. If Tatum comes back in shape they'll be a tough out. The Celtics are an interesting team to me. They don't really have a big 3 of superstars so much as an above average 4 with Tatum, Brown, and Walker all being on that superstar cusp and Smart providing a lot of value. I worry a bit about the drop off in their second unit and the lack of depth in the front court.

I've always REALLY liked him and he is BALLING this yr.

[ztejas 43528]

Yeah Jaylen is absolutely crushing it so far this season. Playing at a near MVP level. Tatum has been very solid, too and earning his money so far. You have to think one of them could potentially be the best player on a title team assuming there's enough talent elsewhere - which there may or may not be on this C's team. 

On Harden - dude needs to get in shape. Maybe KD will rub off on him in a good way. He's 7 feet tall, on the wrong side of 30, tore his Achilles 18 months ago and looks like he could play all 48 mins every night. He knows what it takes to win.

Even though I'd say the NBA is much more fitness and health conscious in 2021 than it has been in the past - you still have varying degrees of guys being fit or not - probably because it's still a very skill based game and you can't teach or work on height on top of that. Jokic finally took it seriously and he's playing better than ever. There's "in shape" to be able to run 30 mins a night and then there's "in shape" to be able to be the same player after 40 mins that you are from the tip. I can't remember who it was - but one player shared a story about getting traded to or signed by the Spurs. At the first practice, Pop told him "you need to get your ass in shape" - and that was news to him. It's not like the NFL where you will get benched or cut really fucking quickly even if you're a superstar level talent.

If you're Harden, you are already a top 10 guy in the league, you could be even better if you maybe cut out some booze and bar food and lost some weight. 

[ztejas 43528]

I think James Harden forgot how to basketball. He's reminding me of the scenes in Space Jam after the NBA players get their talents stolen. 

[Machinator 32099]

None of them can buy a bucket so far.

[Kermit 3158]

Damn, I fucking hated this dude. I wish like hell he was still here. I never appreciated all those ass whippings he gave us, but God knows him crying on the bench is one of my greatest sports memories. Miss you, Kobe. 

[ztejas 43528]

2 hours ago, ztejas said:

I think James Harden forgot how to basketball. He's reminding me of the scenes in Space Jam after the NBA players get their talents stolen. 

Apparently he remembered how in the 4th quarter. 

[SilasCoade 2622]

I will never understand the whitewashing of Kobe Byrant.

[Message Board User 12396]

You know, I'm thinking this Lebron kid just might have a future in the NBA.

[Wulaw Horn 19147]

39 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Apparently he remembered how in the 4th quarter. 

I turned it on in the 4th quarter at 78 all or something. All of a sudden it was 96-80 Brooklyn and it was basically all Harden on scoring and the ball. I’d think at one time he had 16 points on 7 shots or something. Why he’d taken only 7 shots with 6 minutes left in the game I can’t say. 
KD with 20. Broke his streak of 30+ point games. Was 6-21 or something. 

This harden thing is getting weirder by the day. 

[Wulaw Horn 19147]

18 minutes ago, Llogg said:

I will never understand the whitewashing of Kobe Byrant.

Greatness gets a pass man. It’s just the way it is. 

[UpperWestside 6186]

20 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

You know, I'm thinking this Lebron kid just might have a future in the NBA.

Looks like the Cavs FAAFO tonight. It’s fairly incredible what he is still able to do at his age. Cap might be the only guy that took better care of himself than James has over his career. Hard to top his longevity and production right to the end, but James seems like he will do it.

[Kermit 3158]

31 minutes ago, Llogg said:

I will never understand the whitewashing of Kobe Byrant.

If it makes you feel any better, I’m 99% sure that Tim’s video is next. We can all rub our nostalgia peen together.

[Wulaw Horn 19147]

22 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

Looks like the Cavs FAAFO tonight. It’s fairly incredible what he is still able to do at his age. Cap might be the only guy that took better care of himself than James has over his career. Hard to top his longevity and production right to the end, but James seems like he will do it.

Man- James still has what- 9 years to

go before he got to Kareems age at retirement?