2020-2021 NBA Thread of Insanity

[d2o 1602]

I'd never seen this clip of Silver speaking on this.    This shit is FOUL!

 

 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18583]

5 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

Draymond Green *crushes* the NBA status quo here. Hate on him all you want, but we need more guys like Dray:

 

I respect Draymond's passion, but I'm just not getting it.  I mean, poor Andre Drummond had to take a night off while still getting paid $22 million per season. I fail to see how he was slighted or done wrong by the organization. Did I miss them not paying him his salary? They are trying to move him to a better/winning situation. They don't want him to get hurt. It is in both Drummond's and the Piston's best interest for him not to play. How is Drummond being victimized here? Did the Pistons hurt his reputation or cause him any harm? What are they guilty of exactly? Hurting his feelings? Poor guy had to go back into the locker room and put on his street clothes and watch a basketball game from the front row while collecting $22 million. Maybe they should call OSHA?

And then he throws James Harden out as an example, Jesus.  He shit all over the Rockets. That franchise did everything in the world for him -- bent over backwards, made personnel moves at his behest, paid him the max amount of money they possibly could, rescheduled their fucking team flights so he could party in Vegas -- and he shows up out of shape, acts like a total cunt, dogs it, and demands a trade. And then he got his trade, to his preferred destination. It was not to the Rockets benefit at all, that he act like that. That hurt his trade value and Harden damaged both his and the Rockets reputation in the process.

I just don't get how these two situations are analogous. At all. I'm just not getting it. 

The Kyrie thing, with mental health, now that's a bit of a different story. Society has a million miles to go before we deal with mental health issues, but that's another subject. Still, that's a guy who has a reputation for being extremely difficult and flaky, so he isn't going to get the benefit of the doubt. 

Maybe I'm just the old get off my lawn guy, but I don't understand this shit at all. Maybe someone can explain this shit to me?

Edited February 16, 2021 by Mitch Cumsteen

[conVINCEd 21469]

43 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I respect Draymond's passion, but I'm just not getting it.  I mean, poor Andre Drummond had to take a night off while still getting paid $22 million per season. I fail to see how he was slighted or done wrong by the organization. Did I miss them not paying him his salary? They are trying to move him to a better/winning situation. They don't want him to get hurt. It is in both Drummond's and the Piston's best interest for him not to play. How is Drummond being victimized here? Did the Pistons hurt his reputation or cause him any harm? What are they guilty of exactly? Hurting his feelings? Poor guy had to go back into the locker room and put on his street clothes and watch a basketball game from the front row while collecting $22 million. Maybe they should call OSHA?

And then he throws James Harden out as an example, Jesus.  He shit all over the Rockets. That franchise did everything in the world for him -- bent over backwards, made personnel moves at his behest, paid him the max amount of money they possibly could, rescheduled their fucking team flights so he could party in Vegas -- and he shows up out of shape, acts like a total cunt, dogs it, and demands a trade. And then he got his trade, to his preferred destination. It was not to the Rockets benefit at all, that he act like that. That hurt his trade value and Harden damaged both his and the Rockets reputation in the process.

I just don't get how these two situations are analogous. At all. I'm just not getting it. 

The Kyrie thing, with mental health, now that's a bit of a different story. Society has a million miles to go before we deal with mental health issues, but that's another subject. Still, that's a guy who has a reputation for being extremely difficult and flaky, so he isn't going to get the benefit of the doubt. 

Maybe I'm just the old get off my lawn guy, but I don't understand this shit at all. Maybe someone can explain this shit to me?

Doesn’t Drummond play for Cleveland now?

[shadow_operative 15932]

46 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I respect Draymond's passion, but I'm just not getting it.  I mean, poor Andre Drummond had to take a night off while still getting paid $22 million per season. I fail to see how he was slighted or done wrong by the organization. Did I miss them not paying him his salary? They are trying to move him to a better/winning situation. They don't want him to get hurt. It is in both Drummond's and the Piston's best interest for him not to play. How is Drummond being victimized here? Did the Pistons hurt his reputation or cause him any harm? What are they guilty of exactly? Hurting his feelings? Poor guy had to go back into the locker room and put on his street clothes and watch a basketball game from the front row while collecting $22 million. Maybe they should call OSHA?

And then he throws James Harden out as an example, Jesus.  He shit all over the Rockets. That franchise did everything in the world for him -- bent over backwards, made personnel moves at his behest, paid him the max amount of money they possibly could, rescheduled their fucking team flights so he could party in Vegas -- and he shows up out of shape, acts like a total cunt, dogs it, and demands a trade. And then he got his trade, to his preferred destination. It was not to the Rockets benefit at all, that he act like that. That hurt his trade value and Harden damaged both his and the Rockets reputation in the process.

I just don't get how these two situations are analogous. At all. I'm just not getting it. 

The Kyrie thing, with mental health, now that's a bit of a different story. Society has a million miles to go before we deal with mental health issues, but that's another subject. Still, that's a guy who has a reputation for being extremely difficult and flaky, so he isn't going to get the benefit of the doubt. 

Maybe I'm just the old get off my lawn guy, but I don't understand this shit at all. Maybe someone can explain this shit to me?

if a player says, "i want a trade" he's a villain; if an organization says, "we are not playing this guy anymore until we are able to trade him", nobody cares. further, if that player then acts out or voiced his displeasure then he's again demonized. Harden wants to leave Houston, and he's a POS; Cleveland wants to sit and ship Drummond, and it's all good. it's definitely a double standard.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8822]

if a player says, "i want a trade" he's a villain; if an organization says, "we are not playing this guy anymore until we are able to trade him", nobody cares. further, if that player then acts out or voiced his displeasure then he's again demonized. Harden wants to leave Houston, and he's a POS; Cleveland wants to sit and ship Drummond, and it's all good. it's definitely a double standard.

Probably because “I want a trade” means taking the easy way out for a player. ESPECIALLY when he says oh yea I only want to play for brooklyn or Philly. Shows players aren’t loyal to a city/ fan base. Oh James harden asked for a trade after Houston traded 100 first round picks to suit his needs? Meanwhile offering a 100m 2 yr deal?


The nba has gotten toxic with how spoiled the players are despite being paid like kings. If a team wants to keep Drummond from getting injured so they can move him for assets, what’s the problem? Maybe Drummond welcomes a move out of Cleveland and he’d accept that they aren’t going anywhere with him there.


It’ll be a cold day in hell when I’m feeling empathy for nba players who get traded. They all knew it’s a good possibility signing up for it. Fulfill your contractual agreements with the people who are paying you. If you want to leave in free agency, then you’re able to

[Mitch Cumsteen 18583]

1 hour ago, conVINCEd said:

Doesn’t Drummond play for Cleveland now?

Cleveland... Detroit... what's the fucking difference?

1 hour ago, shadow_operative said:

if a player says, "i want a trade" he's a villain; if an organization says, "we are not playing this guy anymore until we are able to trade him", nobody cares. further, if that player then acts out or voiced his displeasure then he's again demonized. Harden wants to leave Houston, and he's a POS; Cleveland wants to sit and ship Drummond, and it's all good. it's definitely a double standard.

Well, that take avoids all nuance and circumstance, not to mention the fundamental nature of the employee-employer relationship and the competitive balance of the league. The Cavs aren't sitting Drummond out of spite. He got beat out by and apparently can't play on the court with, Jarrett Allen. It's in both Drummond's and Cleveland's best interests to move on and in both of their interests for him not to play. They are doing him a solid, and did it in conjunction with his agent.

Where do you draw the line? Why the fuck isn't Draymond beating this drum for guys who aren't good enough and get cut from the 15 man roster? You know... all those guys who aren't getting paid $27 million like Drummond to not play.  Think about the double standard that exists where teams just get to cut players that aren't good enough to play in the NBA? How is that fair? Maybe Draymond should donate some of his $22 million salary to help those guys out? Maybe we should let all the players in the league pick their teammates like a giant pickup game? Fuck the draft. Think about how unfair that is? Let's ignore what is best for the competitive balance of the league because Draymond thinks there is a double standard. Of course there is a double standard between ownership and labor. That's how business works.

And James Harden isn't a POS for demanding a trade. He's a POS because he's a POS. Nobody vilified AD for asking for a trade. Kawhi Leonard acted in the most despicable manner possible to worm his way out of San Antonio, and nobody outside of Bexar county gives (or gave) a shit. Toronto couldn't wait to bend over for him and either could the Clippers.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Mitch Cumsteen

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Cleveland... Detroit... what's the fucking difference?

Well, that take avoids all nuance and circumstance, not to mention the fundamental nature of the employee-employer relationship and the competitive balance of the league. The Cavs aren't sitting Drummond out of spite. He got beat out by and apparently can't play on the court with, Jarrett Allen. It's in both Drummond's and Cleveland's best interests to move on and in both of their interests for him not to play. They are doing him a solid, and did it in conjunction with his agent.

Where do you draw the line? Why the fuck isn't Draymond beating this drum for guys who aren't good enough and get cut from the 15 man roster? You know... all those guys who aren't getting paid $27 million like Drummond to not play.  Think about the double standard that exists where teams just get to cut players that aren't good enough to play in the NBA? How is that fair? Maybe Draymond should donate some of his $22 million salary to help those guys out? Maybe we should let all the players in the league pick their teammates like a giant pickup game? Fuck the draft. Think about how unfair that is? Let's ignore what is best for the competitive balance of the league because Draymond thinks there is a double standard. Of course there is a double standard between ownership and labor. That's how business works.

And James Harden isn't a POS for demanding a trade. He's a POS because he's a POS. Nobody vilified AD for asking for a trade. Kawhi Leonard acted in the most despicable manner possible to worm his way out of San Antonio, and nobody outside of Bexar county gives (or gave) a shit. Toronto couldn't wait to bend over for him and either could the Clippers.

Say whut?

[MNLonghornFUKM 8822]

I feel like kyrie, Lebron or draymond can say the sky is blue and there’s some of us who will argue that.

[Blotto 23579]

1 hour ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

I feel like kyrie, Lebron or draymond can say the sky is blue and there’s some of us who will argue that.

Well if Kyrie says it, at a minimum I'm going to have to reevaluate my position. 

Also, just flipped on TNT and they have the NO vs Memphis matchup. Morant is f'n fun to watch, dude is fearless.

Edited February 17, 2021 by Blotto

[SilasCoade 2622]

My takeaway from that first half is JJ reddick is playing drunk

[Machinator 32099]

Zion and Ja both went off but somehow Josh Hart stole the show.

[shadow_operative 15932]

Harden with the big shot to give BK its first lead of the game at 126-124. clutch. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by shadow_operative

[Machinator 32099]

Harden can still put a team on his back with the best of them (in the regular season, anyway). Jeff Green has been useful, too.

[Machinator 32099]

 

[SilasCoade 2622]

I turned that off around halftime b/c BKN looked like they were just dogshit and I can't stand to look at Devin Booker. I'm sure he's a great guy or whatever, but he has the most punchable face of any current athlete not named Grayson Allen. Which reminds me, Grayson Allen seems like the dude that everybody thought Christian Laettner was, while Laettner was actually an alright guy.

[Js1 85585]

1 hour ago, Llogg said:

I turned that off around halftime b/c BKN looked like they were just dogshit and I can't stand to look at Devin Booker. I'm sure he's a great guy or whatever, but he has the most punchable face of any current athlete not named Grayson Allen. Which reminds me, Grayson Allen seems like the dude that everybody thought Christian Laettner was, while Laettner was actually an alright guy.

Poor Grayson Allen.  You get stuck with Ted Cruz's face and you're a douche who went to Duke - he was basically born to be asking for it. 

[ztejas 43541]

Great signing

https://www.netsdaily.com/platform/amp/2021/2/16/22285154/nets-to-sign-andre-roberson-after-waiving-norvel-pelle

[Underdog 28776]

6 hours ago, Llogg said:

I turned that off around halftime b/c BKN looked like they were just dogshit and I can't stand to look at Devin Booker. I'm sure he's a great guy or whatever, but he has the most punchable face of any current athlete not named Grayson Allen. Which reminds me, Grayson Allen seems like the dude that everybody thought Christian Laettner was, while Laettner was actually an alright guy.

[shadow_operative 15932]

oof.

Edited February 18, 2021 by shadow_operative

[BradInATX 9208]

oof.

Almost as terrible as the uniforms Miami is wearing.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8822]

oof.

Where’s dray? Night off?

[immortal13 4059]

On 2/16/2021 at 2:15 PM, shadow_operative said:

if a player says, "i want a trade" he's a villain; if an organization says, "we are not playing this guy anymore until we are able to trade him", nobody cares. further, if that player then acts out or voiced his displeasure then he's again demonized. Harden wants to leave Houston, and he's a POS; Cleveland wants to sit and ship Drummond, and it's all good. it's definitely a double standard.

Apples and oranges

[ChickenSandwich 9853]

Yes. Terrible take. Harden takes 40 million and tanks games for Houston to force a trade. Fucks his value for his current team that he himself admits has done nothing wrong and given him EVERYTHING he has asked for. Took him from a 6th man afterthought to an Allstar. Then shits all over the team AND his current teammates. goes exactly where he wants. 
 

Dray is just a fucking idiot. He gets upset when he doesn’t get attention and then opens his mouth and leaves no doubt. But obviously it’s effective...for uhh some people.. salt of the earth

Using his logic, the NBA should be no more than ten teams. Covid will have the fans of the 20+ teams with zero shot at a title in the next decade never coming back. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by ChickenSandwich

[Radical Larry 28663]

[Kermit 3158]

16 minutes ago, Radical Larry said:

 

Are they in a parking lot?

[Radical Larry 28663]

They have been parking cars in arenas for advertisements.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8822]

Are they in a parking lot?

I haven’t watched the wolves much because they suck and I don’t have fox sports regional, but I noticed a car parked behind the hoop last night in nba tv.

[Underdog 28776]

Takes me back to the days when you'd see cars parked inside the stadiums during football games...

[DonkeyCigars 143]

Steph Curry has somehow moved from my most hated player to my favorite player. I think because his team more or less sucks now. Anyways, he is just a born winner. The dagger last night against MIA was awesome.

And I agree, Ja Morant is one of the most exciting players in the NBA. His style of play, I fear, will lead to a short NBA career as he ages and his body is more prone to injury.

Edited February 18, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[Machinator 32099]

 

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Steph Curry has somehow moved from my most hated player to my favorite player. I think because his team more or less sucks now. Anyways, he is just a born winner. The dagger last night against MIA was awesome.

And I agree, Ja Morant is one of the most exciting players in the NBA. His style of play, I fear, will lead to a short NBA career as he ages and his body is more prone to injury.

I definitely worry about this too.    He's fearless but he is also only about 170 lbs......maybe

[DonkeyCigars 143]

10 minutes ago, Machinator said:

 

Elam ending was awesome.

[d2o 1602]

2 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Elam ending was awesome.

I had doubts when it was announced but it was great.

[hobbes2702 13074]

On 2/16/2021 at 2:31 PM, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Probably because “I want a trade” means taking the easy way out for a player. ESPECIALLY when he says oh yea I only want to play for brooklyn or Philly. Shows players aren’t loyal to a city/ fan base. Oh James harden asked for a trade after Houston traded 100 first round picks to suit his needs? Meanwhile offering a 100m 2 yr deal?


The nba has gotten toxic with how spoiled the players are despite being paid like kings. If a team wants to keep Drummond from getting injured so they can move him for assets, what’s the problem? Maybe Drummond welcomes a move out of Cleveland and he’d accept that they aren’t going anywhere with him there.


It’ll be a cold day in hell when I’m feeling empathy for nba players who get traded. They all knew it’s a good possibility signing up for it. Fulfill your contractual agreements with the people who are paying you. If you want to leave in free agency, then you’re able to

If you feel no empathy for players getting traded against their wishes then why are you upset when a player demands a trade? That is seriously dumb.

[ChickenSandwich 9853]

18 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

If you feel no empathy for players getting traded against their wishes then why are you upset when a player demands a trade? That is seriously dumb.

No one is stopping players from signing one year deals which would allow them to go to the team of their choosing each season. They want both. The security of a guaranteed long term deal, AND the ability to not honor it. 
 

Are no trade clauses illegal?

[hobbes2702 13074]

7 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

No one is stopping players from signing one year deals which would allow them to go to the team of their choosing each season. They want both. The security of a guaranteed long term deal, AND the ability to not honor it. 
 

Are no trade clauses illegal?

Ok so it seems like teams and players want the same thing. Teams want to sign players (especially stars) to longer deals but they clearly also want the ability to not honor it (see Russell Westbrook and John Wall). No trade clauses in the NBA are extremely rare because they have very specific requirements to qualify. 
Why not have a truly free market like European soccer?

[ChickenSandwich 9853]

It already basically is with only a handful of teams winning the title over the last 40 years. Just like the EPL

[ChickenSandwich 9853]

52 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Ok so it seems like teams and players want the same thing. Teams want to sign players (especially stars) to longer deals but they clearly also want the ability to not honor it (see Russell Westbrook and John Wall). No trade clauses in the NBA are extremely rare because they have very specific requirements to qualify. 
Why not have a truly free market like European soccer?

Wall and Russ?  I wasn’t aware either had their contract terminated. How are they not honoring it?  Both requested trades and were given them. They are each still receiving max salary. 

[hobbes2702 13074]

4 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Wall and Russ?  I wasn’t aware either had their contract terminated. How are they not honoring it?  Both requested trades and were given them. They are each still receiving max salary. 

Ok then Jarrett Allen or the thousands of other players who are traded on a whim. Ask RoCo if he wants to continue moving from one city to the next every year. Jarrett Allen didn’t ask for a trade but the Nets sent him packing. If teams can freely trade players then there shouldn’t be criticism if a player asks to leave.
The point is there is a way to do this that allows teams flexibility and players flexibility. Realistically though the players are the only reason this game makes people millions of dollars so they should have most of the power.

[hobbes2702 13074]

17 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

It already basically is with only a handful of teams winning the title over the last 40 years. Just like the EPL

It literally isn’t remotely similar.

[d2o 1602]

9 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Wall and Russ?  I wasn’t aware either had their contract terminated. How are they not honoring it?  Both requested trades and were given them. They are each still receiving max salary. 

If the players refused to play then they would not be honoring their contract.    Asking for a trade is not dishonoring it IMO.    Especially when we have situations where teams sell players on being the face of their franchise and then trade them soon after like the Clippers did with Blake Griffin.

[ChickenSandwich 9853]

I don’t feel either Russ or Wall didn’t honor their end of the deal. Harden is a completely different story. 

[ChickenSandwich 9853]

23 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

It literally isn’t remotely similar.

Will have to find the post where I had all of the correct details, but if you remove the 1 title teams (Toronto, Dallas etc) only 7 teams have won an NBA title since 1980. 

[ChickenSandwich 9853]

26 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Ok then Jarrett Allen or the thousands of other players who are traded on a whim. Ask RoCo if he wants to continue moving from one city to the next every year. Jarrett Allen didn’t ask for a trade but the Nets sent him packing. If teams can freely trade players then there shouldn’t be criticism if a player asks to leave.
The point is there is a way to do this that allows teams flexibility and players flexibility. Realistically though the players are the only reason this game makes people millions of dollars so they should have most of the power.

I don’t have an issue with asking to be traded. Openly tanking on the floor, showing up fat, breaking Covid protocols on purpose....this is where I take issue. 
 

And it still doesn’t change the fact they could sign one year deals and control their own destiny, but salary cap restrictions mean less money with only free agent signings. By forcing trades they keep the extra money and circumvent the salary cap. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by ChickenSandwich

[d2o 1602]

3 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

I don’t feel either Russ or Wall didn’t honor their end of the deal. Harden is a completely different story. 

Agreed

[d2o 1602]

7 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Will have to find the post where I had all of the correct details, but if you remove the 1 title teams (Toronto, Dallas etc) only 7 teams have won an NBA title since 1980. 

Why remove DAL and TOR though?

[Patrick Bateman 3933]

16 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

I don’t have an issue with asking to be traded. Openly tanking on the floor,

Isn't this what Cleveland is doing?  Openly tanking on the floor?  

[d2o 1602]

32 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Isn't this what Cleveland is doing?  Openly tanking on the floor?  

 

 

[hobbes2702 13074]

1 hour ago, ChickenSandwich said:

I don’t have an issue with asking to be traded. Openly tanking on the floor, showing up fat, breaking Covid protocols on purpose....this is where I take issue. 
 

And it still doesn’t change the fact they could sign one year deals and control their own destiny, but salary cap restrictions mean less money with only free agent signings. By forcing trades they keep the extra money and circumvent the salary cap. 

Multiple teams openly rank every single season so why is it different if a player does it?

Why should they have to take less money to sign for one season? Why shouldn’t they be paid their fair market value? Why is there a salary cap in the first place? Shouldn’t teams operate in a way that they make enough money to pay players the value they would earn on the open market?

[ChickenSandwich 9853]

10 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Multiple teams openly rank every single season so why is it different if a player does it?

Why should they have to take less money to sign for one season? Why shouldn’t they be paid their fair market value? Why is there a salary cap in the first place? Shouldn’t teams operate in a way that they make enough money to pay players the value they would earn on the open market?

Then why would you bother with 30+ teams?  I don’t have a problem with it but it’s not the model they choose and collectively bargained for.