2020-2021 NBA Thread of Insanity

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

14 hours ago, aggie08 said:

CP3 averaged 16/9/4.5. He's not their team's best player. Leadership, experience, and other intangibles obviously matter, but it can't be the leading argument. 5th is about right. Phoenix was red hot in the bubble last year; their young guys started figuring it out. They wouldn't have been the 2 seed without CP3, but they would have been comfortably in the playoffs.

He's absolutely their best player.  Not that close although Ayton took a big step.  

 

8 hours ago, Kermit said:

If the Warriors want to trade a guy who can’t even get MVP votes or make the playoffs for a guy who can’t get MVP votes or make the playoffs, please call Bryan Wright directly at 1-800-BYE-DEMR. 

 

7 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

Kd is already in the Top 15. That said this whole debate is weird tbh and not on the Aggie side.

Really is.  Steph was exceptional this year and it was a really strange season as it was.  2nd place missed almost 20 games of the season but was monster good in the 50ish he played.  The best player in the world didn't play enough games to qualify for most statistics.  When was the last time Lebron was outside the top 12.  Who's the moron that gave Derrick F'n Rose a first place vote?  Take his vote away.  No issue with Steph in the top 5, nor would I have had with Lillard either.

 

[Mole 4320]

The Rose vote was fan vote, so the moron was the royal us.

[aggie08 21434]

5 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

He's absolutely their best player.  Not that close although Ayton took a big step.  

Yeah, that's fine. I was admittedly just trying to be a little controversial on that one. To put it more accurately, on any given night, Booker (or Ayton) can be their best player for a game which is not a luxury that Steph or Luka had this year. If they're not their team's best player every night, they lose.

Edited June 10, 2021 by aggie08

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

Mike D’Antoni to the Blazers

[ztejas 43266]

20 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

I mean if you only look at PPG you might think Bradley Beal had a season comparable to Steph’s. Maybe try looking a little deeper. Those players are on different planets this year.

I'm not saying Beal was better. I'm saying he did comparable things on a poor team and was never in any MVP discussion. Beal had a great season. He also had to put up with Westbrook all year.

The overarching point being you shouldn't get 1st or 2nd place MVP votes for racking up crazy stats on a shitty non-playoff team. But thats my opinion on what Most Valuable Player should mean and I understand some people disagree. 

[aggie08 21434]

1 hour ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Mike D’Antoni to the Blazers

Ah, hell yeah. Sign me up for some 148-145 7:30pm west coast tip-offs.

Edited June 10, 2021 by aggie08

[Machinator 32097]

3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Ah, hell yeah. Sign me up for some 148-145 7:30pm west coast tip-offs.

Just rumors (for now)

 

[Underdog 28457]

Guess the Blazers still aren't serious about winning anything of importance. 

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, Underdog said:

Guess the Blazers still aren't serious about winning anything of importance. 

Well, they havent said anything but if they even bring him in for an interview that is the correct take.     And that they aren't even remotely serious about address the largest issue, defense.

[Machinator 32097]

[ztejas 43266]

Lmfao at Westbrook receiving votes. 

[SilasCoade 2620]

His mom gets a vote.

[shadow_operative 15932]

On 6/10/2021 at 1:31 PM, ztejas said:

I'm not saying Beal was better. I'm saying he did comparable things on a poor team and was never in any MVP discussion. Beal had a great season. He also had to put up with Westbrook all year.

The overarching point being you shouldn't get 1st or 2nd place MVP votes for racking up crazy stats on a shitty non-playoff team. But thats my opinion on what Most Valuable Player should mean and I understand some people disagree. 

BB's season was not comparable to Steph's. You could argue that this was Steph's best individual season of his career. it's definitely in his top 2 or 3. 

[aggie08 21434]

1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Pretty close in every metric outside of 3%. 

Yeah, no.

[aggie08 21434]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

You must be unfamiliar with the word “metric”. 

PER, eFG, True Shooting aren't in the same stratosphere. Among others. Less rebounds, less assists...

So you basically just looked at points and FG%, and said "Close enough."

Don't try to find ways to make your Russ and Beal > Kawhi hot take even worse.

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by aggie08

[ztejas 43266]

Julius Randle 2nd team all NBA.

Lol.

[Machinator 32097]

[Brothahorn 10085]

Julius Randle 2nd team all NBA.
Lol.

Ridiculous as GA making 1st team and KD nowhere. How the hell does that happen?

[hobbes2702 12846]

12 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

Ridiculous as GA making 1st team and KD nowhere. How the hell does that happen?

Kd didn’t play enough in my opinion but what’s your issue with GA?

[Brothahorn 10085]

Kd didn’t play enough in my opinion but what’s your issue with GA?

To me he is about as average as a supposed superstar can be. He has no real offensive game, no jump shot and can't be trusted with FT's. Seems more hype and benefactor of bad opponents than a game changer. I know it's based on the regular season, so JMO.

[hobbes2702 12846]

2 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

31 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Kd didn’t play enough in my opinion but what’s your issue with GA?

To me he is about as average as a supposed superstar can be. He has no real offensive game, no jump shot and can't be trusted with FT's. Seems more hype and benefactor of bad opponents than a game changer. I know it's based on the regular season, so JMO.

You’re not wrongly all. But like you said it’s regular season and I’m not sure who you can say deserved it more. I wouldn’t say he’s just hype or bad opponents but his game is too limited to be highly successful in the playoffs.

Edited June 16, 2021 by hobbes2702

[ztejas 43266]

1 hour ago, Brothahorn said:

Ridiculous as GA making 1st team and KD nowhere. How the hell does that happen?

Giannis was really good. No qualms with him on 1st team. KD didn't play enough. He would have been a lock for first team had he played all year. 

LeBron on 2nd team with Harden not making any team is ridiculous. Harden played one more game than he did and his team didn't finish as the fucking 7th seed. 

[d2o 1602]

11 hours ago, Brothahorn said:

11 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

Kd didn’t play enough in my opinion but what’s your issue with GA?

To me he is about as average as a supposed superstar can be. He has no real offensive game, no jump shot and can't be trusted with FT's. Seems more hype and benefactor of bad opponents than a game changer. I know it's based on the regular season, so JMO.

Meh, I can agree with that in the playoffs.     In the reg season he is and has been an absolute beast and doesn't miss games.

[d2o 1602]

 

 

[Machinator 32097]

[shadow_operative 15932]

On 6/15/2021 at 7:18 PM, ztejas said:

Julius Randle 2nd team all NBA.

Lol.

71/72 games played, 24.1 ppg, 10.2 reb, 6.0 ast, 81% FT, 41% 3P on 5.8 3PA, and second in the NBA to only Rudy Gobert in Defensive Win Shares. so, yeah. he's where he deserves to be. Sabonis not being included is what's stupid. 

[ztejas 43266]

10 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

71/72 games played, 24.1 ppg, 10.2 reb, 6.0 ast, 81% FT, 41% 3P on 5.8 3PA, and second in the NBA to only Rudy Gobert in Defensive Win Shares. so, yeah. he's where he deserves to be. Sabonis not being included is what's stupid. 

I guess. It's just funny seeing him that high. A lot of dudes were injured though. He's maybe the 25th best player in the league. If that. Had a nice season though. 

[d2o 1602]

6 hours ago, ztejas said:

I guess. It's just funny seeing him that high. A lot of dudes were injured though. He's maybe the 25th best player in the league. If that. Had a nice season though. 

He had a top 15 season whether he is a top 15 player or not.  There is  little NY bias going but he isn't the 1st, 2nd or 3rd guy I would sub out to address more deserving 

[shadow_operative 15932]

didn't realize Zion was such a diva.

 

[Vic Mackey 46936]

I thought the CP3 Hornets teams from the late 2000s could have did something. They looked really good in 2008. With Tyson Chandler, Peja, David West and others. Went up 2-0 on SA with ease and then blew the series. But doubt they would have did much against the Lakers in the WCF. Believe the next season they got buttfucked by Denver in the 1st round. Think about a team with CP3, AD and Zion. 

[Kermit 3128]

18 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

didn't realize Zion was such a diva.

 

He’s been there for one fucking year. The COVID year he was fat, out of shape, and injured. But, perhaps they’ll take Rudy Gay in a sign and trade.

[ztejas 43266]

1 hour ago, shadow_operative said:

didn't realize Zion was such a diva.

 

 

1 hour ago, Kermit said:

He’s been there for one fucking year. The COVID year he was fat, out of shape, and injured. But, perhaps they’ll take Rudy Gay in a sign and trade.

Hang on a sec... that Pelicans team was one of the most embarassing disasters I've ever seen considering the talent they had and I was pointing it out all year and they just fired their coach. 

Let's be a little more fair to Zion. He was a monster and was able to stay pretty damn healthy for them. Sure he can be patient with it but to say he deserves better is pretty much accurate. That org fucking suuuucks.

Zion had 27/7/4 in 61/72 games on 61% from the field and 70% from the stripe. And they won 31 games. I'd be disgruntled too.

Edited June 17, 2021 by ztejas

[shadow_operative 15932]

this is poor leadership from a guy who they brought in to be the face of the franchise. he's been in the league for half an hour and has accomplished exactly nothing. for him (and his family?) to be whining already is a terrible sign. he needs someone in his ear who can give him some better advice, because publicly whining about your organization not making him (and agin, his family?) happy is a bad look, and a bad start to his career. 

[HtownHorn 14488]

NBA has a major problem on their hands. Players now think if they bitch enough in public their team will trade them where they want to go for pennies on the dollar. My guess is the next labor dispute will be a pretty bad one with teams looking to regain some sort of control of this bullshit.

[Machinator 32097]

[Brothahorn 10085]

I thought the CP3 Hornets teams from the late 2000s could have did something. They looked really good in 2008. With Tyson Chandler, Peja, David West and others. Went up 2-0 on SA with ease and then blew the series. But doubt they would have did much against the Lakers in the WCF. Believe the next season they got buttfucked by Denver in the 1st round. Think about a team with CP3, AD and Zion. 

And Monty Williams as coach.

The Alvin Gentry, SVG experiments were pitiful. But family members (Zion) need to STFU.

[d2o 1602]

13 hours ago, Brothahorn said:

And Monty Williams as coach.

The Alvin Gentry, SVG experiments were pitiful. But family members (Zion) need to STFU.

This is the correct answer.

[CurlyDumps 4440]

lol @ the douchebag gambler winning Game of Thrones: Dallas. Very Cubanian outcome.

I heard him on BS podcasts over the years. Interesting guy, but definitely insists upon himself.

[Machinator 32097]

 

[aggie08 21434]

On 6/9/2021 at 10:52 PM, Patrick Bateman said:

He's absolutely their best player.  Not that close although Ayton took a big step.  

Are we still sure about this?

Through 11 playoff games, Devin is averaging 29/7.4/5.4 on 49/38/92 shooting.

I don't think CP3 has ever had a prolonged postseason stretch that has challenged that.

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

On 6/17/2021 at 8:18 PM, Brothahorn said:

And Monty Williams as coach.

The Alvin Gentry, SVG experiments were pitiful. But family members (Zion) need to STFU.

Half the roster was injured for his entire tenure with the team. The one season where they were halfway healthy he took the team to the Western Conference semis and that was AFTER Cousins tore his achilles.  I actually thought Gentry got a raw deal, especially since he and David Griffin (their GM) go way back to their Phoenix Suns days. Zion basically didn't play the one year Gentry had him and Griffin fired him before he ever got a shot and then doubled it up and hired a coach who isn't exactly known for running a cohesive offense or getting the most out of young players.  That being said, why are we taking an IG post from Bleacher Report seriously? 

[Brothahorn 10085]

Half the roster was injured for his entire tenure with the team. The one season where they were halfway healthy he took the team to the Western Conference semis and that was AFTER Cousins tore his achilles.  I actually thought Gentry got a raw deal, especially since he and David Griffin (their GM) go way back to their Phoenix Suns days. Zion basically didn't play the one year Gentry had him and Griffin fired him before he ever got a shot and then doubled it up and hired a coach who isn't exactly known for running a cohesive offense or getting the most out of young players.  That being said, why are we taking an IG post from Bleacher Report seriously? 

Ehh..You are what your record says you are. 3 playoff appearances between Detroit, LA, Phoenix and NO says he is not s good coach.

Every coach besides Phil Jackson has had to overcome injuries.

[SilasCoade 2620]

I know Harden's a great player and no one could have predicted the injury, but does anybody think the Nets don't make that trade if Dinwiddie was healthy? Wouldn't they have been a better team with him, Levert, and Allen? That one injury I think had a huge ripple effect on the season for multiple teams. The Heat or 76ers probably would have ended up with Harden. Zombie Blake Griffin could have signed anywhere, but assume a potential contender like the Heat. Season would have been hugely different if not for that one knee popping.

[d2o 1602]

2 hours ago, Llogg said:

I know Harden's a great player and no one could have predicted the injury, but does anybody think the Nets don't make that trade if Dinwiddie was healthy? Wouldn't they have been a better team with him, Levert, and Allen? That one injury I think had a huge ripple effect on the season for multiple teams. The Heat or 76ers probably would have ended up with Harden. Zombie Blake Griffin could have signed anywhere, but assume a potential contender like the Heat. Season would have been hugely different if not for that one knee popping.

My position is known in thinking they really didnt need Harden.   If Kyrie doesn't get hurt Harden probably doesn't even try to play and they still beat the Bucks.

 

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

13 hours ago, Brothahorn said:

Ehh..You are what your record says you are. 3 playoff appearances between Detroit, LA, Phoenix and NO says he is not s good coach.

Every coach besides Phil Jackson has had to overcome injuries.

Yeah I get that and despite my post you responded to I generally tend to agree. Only, I'm trying to figure out Griffin's thought process. Everything you said of Gentry was true when Griffin got the job, yet he kept him. So it stands to reason that given their previous relationship and the Pelicans personnel at the time, he kept him for a reason. Probably wanted to employ the D'Antoni Phoenix Suns/ 2012-2014 Spurs hybrid offense akin to what Gentry was doing with Kerr in Golden State. Gentry was the offensive brains behind the Warriors 2014-2015 offense. So given that initial decision what did Gentry do wrong in a season where he had Zion for 24 games and a pandemic break. The Pelicans looked to be on their way towards making the playoffs before COVID season started spring 2020.  Fast forward to now, you've now fired 2 coaches 2 years into your 2+ year tenure as GM. Griffin doesn't seem to have much of a plan. 

[d2o 1602]

10 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Yeah I get that and despite my post you responded to I generally tend to agree. Only, I'm trying to figure out Griffin's thought process. Everything you said of Gentry was true when Griffin got the job, yet he kept him. So it stands to reason that given their previous relationship and the Pelicans personnel at the time, he kept him for a reason. Probably wanted to employ the D'Antoni Phoenix Suns/ 2012-2014 Spurs hybrid offense akin to what Gentry was doing with Kerr in Golden State. Gentry was the offensive brains behind the Warriors 2014-2015 offense. So given that initial decision what did Gentry do wrong in a season where he had Zion for 24 games and a pandemic break. The Pelicans looked to be on their way towards making the playoffs before COVID season started spring 2020.  Fast forward to now, you've now fired 2 coaches 2 years into your 2+ year tenure as GM. Griffin doesn't seem to have much of a plan. 

While I do think Gentry is mediocre I didnt think he deserved to be fired when he was.    Hiring SVG just made it even worse.   I know Griffin gets a lot of love cause of the title in CLE but man that was one bad move after another.

 

[ztejas 43266]

3 hours ago, Llogg said:

I know Harden's a great player and no one could have predicted the injury, but does anybody think the Nets don't make that trade if Dinwiddie was healthy? Wouldn't they have been a better team with him, Levert, and Allen? That one injury I think had a huge ripple effect on the season for multiple teams. The Heat or 76ers probably would have ended up with Harden. Zombie Blake Griffin could have signed anywhere, but assume a potential contender like the Heat. Season would have been hugely different if not for that one knee popping.

So if Dinwiddie didn't get hurt they'd be a better team than they were with Kyrie and Harden getting hurt? That's a little revisionist. Of course they'd have been better with healthy players rather than injured ones. I think there's about a zero percent chance they don't make the Finals if Kyrie's ankle isn't fucked. Forget Harden. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

Think of the butterfly effect of the Nets not trading for Harden which probably results in Philly getting him. 

[ztejas 43266]

1 minute ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Think of the butterfly effect of the Nets not trading for Harden which probably results in Philly getting him. 

I don't disagree with that part - the part saying they would have been a better team had he not got hurt and they didn't trade for Harden is silly because both Kyrie and Harden were hurt in the playoffs. The best version of this Nets team was with all 3 of their big 3 healthy. 

Plus - there's no guarantee Allen or Levert stay healthy. Maybe Levert tears his ACL against Boston. 

Trying to to evaluate the Harden trade is difficult unless you want to fault Marks for not predicting that Harden would go out a minute into game 1 and then Kyrie would go down a couple games later. 

[d2o 1602]

5 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I don't disagree with that part - the part saying they would have been a better team had he not got hurt and they didn't trade for Harden is silly because both Kyrie and Harden were hurt in the playoffs. The best version of this Nets team was with all 3 of their big 3 healthy. 

Plus - there's no guarantee Allen or Levert stay healthy. Maybe Levert tears his ACL against Boston. 

Trying to to evaluate the Harden trade is difficult unless you want to fault Marks for not predicting that Harden would go out a minute into game 1 and then Kyrie would go down a couple games later. 

Not really though.   The fault is not having the depth that they had a lot of prior to the trade.