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2020-2021 NBA Thread of Insanity

ztejas

By ztejas
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HookEm

HookEm 2442

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Just here to lol at the DPOY being a “role player”. Defense is half the game. If you are the best player in the world at defense you aren’t a role player. Would anyone say that the NBA scoring champion is a role player just because they don’t play defense? Dumb.

To that end, Tyson Chandler was fantastic in the Mavs title. I was shocked when they didn’t keep him. And guess what they sucked after that.

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Mitch Cumsteen
Mitch Cumsteen

I've seen Harden plenty -- pounding away to either try a step back three or getting a pick and going downhill and then forcing contact at the rack for his endless parade to the free throw line, or kic

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Mitch Cumsteen

As long as Russ plays for Washington and Scott Brooks, he's going to both obliterate the triple double record and render it meaningless. The Wiz are the perfect team for him -- they play at the fastes

Mitch Cumsteen
Mitch Cumsteen

Kobe was a ridiculously great basketball player but the narrative around him, especially posthumously, has become horribly distorted. He was a terrible teammate, to the point where the Lakers, even be

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18523

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I'm not sure what the role player debate is about with Rodman. Is it part of a larger argument that those Pistons teams were an Isiah Thomas one man show? Because that's retarded. Those teams were loaded. You guys already mentioned Dumars (6x all star) but Bill Laimbeer made 4 all star teams at a time when the Eastern conference was loaded and led the league in rebounding. Everybody just remembers he was a cheap shot artist but he was a great player. Mark Aguirre made 3 all star teams. That team was stacked. 

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3903

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4 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I'm not sure what the role player debate is about with Rodman. Is it part of a larger argument that those Pistons teams were an Isiah Thomas one man show? Because that's retarded. Those teams were loaded. You guys already mentioned Dumars (6x all star) but Bill Laimbeer made 4 all star teams at a time when the Eastern conference was loaded and led the league in rebounding. Everybody just remembers he was a cheap shot artist but he was a great player. Mark Aguirre made 3 all star teams. That team was stacked. 

I very much agree with this.  Also Dantley played half a season and although was on the back side of the mountain and a churlish guy, he could still play and was their most efficient scorer with high USG in 89'.  It really interesting how Detroit's championship teams were really true team efforts without a major superstar, even the aughts team.  Yes, Thomas was a superstar from a media perspective but to achieve the ultimate team prize, he became a very unselfish guy and embraced a team approach, which is to his credit.  Was he the best player on the team?  Probably, but it's actually quite debatable, as Laimbeer, Dumars, Rodman, even the Microwave were all over 2.0 VORP players in 89'.  In 90', Salley and Edwards were bigger contributors, but definitely a team oriented championship.

 

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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 12878

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On 1/14/2021 at 1:53 PM, Wulaw Horn said:

Go Back to Jordan and count from there- that's 30 years

Year -  Best Player on title team- League status 

91-93- Jordan- Best in the league

94-95- Hakeem- Best player in the league

96-98- Jordan- Best Player in the league

99- Duncan (young)- top 5 guy in the league for sure

00-02- Shaq- Best player in the league

03- Duncan- top 2 or 3 player in the league

04- ?????? (pistons)- no top 5 player in the league- probably no top 10 player in the league- 4 top 30 or top 40 guys- exception that proves the rule

05- Duncan- Best player in the league

06- Wade- top 5 player in the league

07- Duncan- best player in the league

08- Garnett- top 5 player in the league- top 7 maybe?

09-10- Kobe- top 5 player in the league

11 - Dirk- top 5 player in the league

12-13- LBJ- Best player in the league

14- ??????-  ????????? maybe the other exception- Duncan probably isn't top 5 or top 7 anymore- Leonard probably not there yet

15- Curry- top 3 player in the league

16- LBJ- Best player in the league

17-18- Durant- top 3 player in the league

19- Leonard- top 5 player in the league

20- LBJ- top 3 player in the league.

 

The history is pretty clear over 30 years- you probably need a top 3 or 5 player in the league to win. Maybe you can extend that out to 7.  That's the formula for every title other than 2- and both of those teams were stacked top 5 players.  

 

Guys that fit that mold right now:  LBJ, Davis, Durant, Leonard, GA- squinting that you can make a case for: Harden, Curry, Luka, Joker.  That's it- that's the list.  Everything you do in team construction needs to be to get one of those 5 - 9 guys. If you are LA or NY you can get them in trade or FA. If you are any other team you need to draft.  Then, you have your tent pole and you can start building around them with the hope that you can win a title.  Those 9 guys are spread amongst 6 teams.  Anyone 2 are together (LBJ and Davis, Durant and Harden) and the other 5 are dispersed in 5 other teams.  

Guys like Tatum, Zion, maybe Joker (not sure if he should be on the initial list) look like they might get there as other guys age out.  If you want to win another title with Curry or Leonard on your team you need to have a top 15 or 20 guy to stick with them.  Same goes for Luka- which is why Dallas has some more work to do.  Joker is hoping Murray decides to become that guy, or MPJr.  

LBJ will be surpassed by Davis soon- that's why that trade is so important.  
KD, Curry and Harden probably have 2 or 3 years left as those potential guys.

Leonard might have 5.  

Joker might have 7

GA and Luka have a full decade pending injuries.  

Zion, Tatum and some of those other guys are on the clock waiting on the above list to age out of that category.  

you misspelled manu ginobili

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ztejas

ztejas 43262

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5 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

you misspelled manu ginobili

Manu and Timmy may have been 1A and 1B in '05 but Timmy was still the engine that made that team run. I think the Spurs would have been better off sans Manu in '05 than sans Timmy - but they were both integral to that championship. 

I mean, there were a lot of things in that Wulaw post that I could have nitpicked - but I'm probably enjoying reading this tangent more than actually participating in it. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43262

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Just now, Patrick Bateman said:

I think it's official now..... Don't know explicitly the rules around unwinding it based on something like this though.

For the Nets....

 

See my edit. They were compensated with a 2nd round pick - must be a minor issue - kidney stone probably. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43262

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33 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Fat harden with 24/8/15 with 3 minutes left. KD with 42. No Kyrie. They really should move Kyrie for someone/something good. No idea what that would be. 

I want to see them with Kyrie before I get sold on the idea of them moving him. 

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d2o

d2o 1602

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7 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I can’t imagine anyone on this world wanting to trade for him. I’m taking about a hypothetical parallel universe. 

If he wants to be there they can be amazing honestly.   That's a big if but still no need to rush into trade talk especially right now with him flaking and not many, if any, willing to give much for the headache

 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18968

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39 minutes ago, d2o said:

If he wants to be there they can be amazing honestly.   That's a big if but still no need to rush into trade talk especially right now with him flaking and not many, if any, willing to give much for the headache

 

Absolutely. I was more thinking in a parallel universe where Kyrie was engaged and someone would give them value. None of that will happen. You cross your fingers and hope for the best. 

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3903

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1 hour ago, ztejas said:

I want to see them with Kyrie before I get sold on the idea of them moving him. 

They're not going to move him unless he really pisses KD off.  With Dinwiddie going down, this is the idea.  Superteam of 3.  People can shit on it and I understand why but they're going to be hard to beat once they sign some depth.

 

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Brothahorn

Brothahorn 10085

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2 hours ago, d2o said:

 

  

And KD has 40+.    Your move Kyrie.

Exactly what I expected. Dude can play the game when he wants or it's a closeout game in the playoffs. 

 

Works out well for KD, James can them through the regular season until they meet up with a couple of teams. Then once the playoffs start, KD can step it up. And Kyrie can just be Kyrie.

 

I'm ready for the playoffs to see how they handle that pressure.

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12791

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4 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Fat harden with 24/8/15 with 3 minutes left. KD with 42. No Kyrie. They really should move Kyrie for someone/something good. No idea what that would be. 

That could use a big man and a wing defender but I dunno that anyone is giving up anything if value for Kyrie right now.

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MNLonghornFUKM

MNLonghornFUKM 8799

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Another NBA players heads are up in fantasy land moment and it comes from a board favorite





I too am happy that James is finally happy. Even at 42 million dollars a year who was offered like 50 million a year, got every player he wanted, the teams travel schedule revolved around his partying, had a say in every head coach, he’s never been told no in 7 years..... you can’t put a price on that face


You’re free James! You’ve earned it
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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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If I were the Nets I'd dump Kyrie for the best player offered in return. They're good enough to win the Conference with the team they have now minus Kyrie plus a top 40 type player. The downside to re-adding him to the mix drastically outweighs the pretty small upside. Someone in the Brogdon/Kemba/Lowry range.

Even ignoring the chemistry stuff there is nothing Kyrie does that Harden and Durant don't already do better except maybe his handles. Which are generally a negative anyway because when he's handling the ball the offense stops.

Question is whether teams would trade a Brogdon/Kemba/Lowry for Kyrie. Probably not.

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ztejas

ztejas 43262

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3 hours ago, BradInATX said:

If I were the Nets I'd dump Kyrie for the best player offered in return. They're good enough to win the Conference with the team they have now minus Kyrie plus a top 40 type player. The downside to re-adding him to the mix drastically outweighs the pretty small upside. Someone in the Brogdon/Kemba/Lowry range.

Even ignoring the chemistry stuff there is nothing Kyrie does that Harden and Durant don't already do better except maybe his handles. Which are generally a negative anyway because when he's handling the ball the offense stops.

Question is whether teams would trade a Brogdon/Kemba/Lowry for Kyrie. Probably not.

Why would they trade Kyrie for a PG? Harden is the best PG in the league and they have Dinwiddie coming back next season. They need PF or C depth - not more ball handlers. 

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12791

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5 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Why would they trade Kyrie for a PG? Harden is the best PG in the league and they have Dinwiddie coming back next season. They need PF or C depth - not more ball handlers. 

Yup. If they are gonna move him it needs to be for a big and a wing defender. 
 

Otto Porter and Wendell Carter for Kyrie works within the rules. More likely though is they patch their roster through the buyout market 

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3903

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22 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Yup. If they are gonna move him it needs to be for a big and a wing defender. 
 

Otto Porter and Wendell Carter for Kyrie works within the rules. More likely though is they patch their roster through the buyout market 

This is almost surely what they'll do unless Kyrie decides he wants to force out.  Guys like Ariza, McGee, Temple, maybe like a Robin Lopez.  There will be some dudes who can provide depth an 10-15 minutes a game.  Kyrie was actually playing great before he went off to pout, so it's not like he can't play.  

 

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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Why would they trade Kyrie for a PG? Harden is the best PG in the league and they have Dinwiddie coming back next season. They need PF or C depth - not more ball handlers. 
I don't know the Nets, so you're nitpicking thin air here. Just giving approximate value players. Replace those three guys with the equivalent front court guys. Doesn't change the point which is that kyrie is redundant and not worth the risk.
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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18968

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Just now, d2o said:

If he asks out you can bet he will have a preferred destination.   MIA would be my best guess for that.

That’s interesting. They have a decent PG. I also don’t see any reason Brooklyn would want to make Miami better or what they could send the Nets to make them better, but that doesn’t mean he won’t ask to go there. 
I have no idea who would make sense for Brooklyn to partner with if KI’s desire didnt matter (it of course does in the real world). 

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3903

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Sure. But what this thread presupposes is- what if he did? 

Why don't presuppose Anthony Davis wants to get traded?  Do you think anyone would trade for him?  What if he really pouts again?  This would be the 2nd franchise he tanked because he got tired of them.

 

3 hours ago, BradInATX said:
5 hours ago, d2o said:
the Kyrie trade talk is silly.   he isnt going anywhere unless he asks out.

He isn't going anywhere because nobody will give the Nets anything of value for him

Silliness.  You could say because the other teams won't give the Nets anything close to his true value, but anything of value is incorrect.

3 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

What about a Miles Turner/Clint Capela and a 3 and D type?  Old school Tyson Chandler would have been pretty perfect along with a solid rotation type 2/3. 
I have no idea where you’d actually go if he wasn’t toxic, in a talent/fit type deal. 

How about Steph and a 1st for Kyrie and Dinwiddie?  Maybe that's the ticket.

Edited by Patrick Bateman
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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21468

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17 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Why don't presuppose Anthony Davis wants to get traded?  Do you think anyone would trade for him?  What if he really pouts again?  This would be the 2nd franchise he tanked because he got tired of them.

 

Silliness.  You could say because the other teams won't give the Nets anything close to his true value, but anything of value is incorrect.

How about Steph and a 1st for Kyrie and Dinwiddie?  Maybe that's the ticket.

Steph is 100% completely untouchable.  The riots in the Bay Area would make the recent violence in our Capitol look tame (a little sarcasm there). He is probably the last guy that is absolutely, completely tied to his team.  Dirk, Duncan, and Kobe were the last guys before Steph, and Steph will be the last one.

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MNLonghornFUKM

MNLonghornFUKM 8799

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Steph is 100% completely untouchable.  The riots in the Bay Area would make the recent violence in our Capitol look tame (a little sarcasm there). He is probably the last guy that is absolutely, completely tied to his team.  Dirk, Duncan, and Kobe were the last guys before Steph, and Steph will be the last one.

Pfft


Kobe is a hornet for life in my eyes
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d2o

d2o 1602

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9 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

Steph is 100% completely untouchable.  The riots in the Bay Area would make the recent violence in our Capitol look tame (a little sarcasm there). He is probably the last guy that is absolutely, completely tied to his team.  Dirk, Duncan, and Kobe were the last guys before Steph, and Steph will be the last one.

Good grief

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