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2020-2021 NBA Thread of Insanity

ztejas

By ztejas
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Kobe was a ridiculously great basketball player but the narrative around him, especially posthumously, has become horribly distorted. He was a terrible teammate, to the point where the Lakers, even be

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ztejas

ztejas 44227

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The big 3 Nets remind me of the 2011 Heat through a half of basketball. It's going to take them time to figure things out - although you can see the gears turning. 

In other news, Nash is a horrible game manager through 1/4 of the season. He needs to grow out of it quickly. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19595

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Just watched the last minute of regulation and both OT’s. Sexton- wowzers- have yourself a night. Kyrie with the last possession was the wrong choice imo. Ball should have been with Harden or Durant. 
I think Kyrie had twice as many shots as Harden. I’m sure they are trying to work him back in and make him happy and give him his touches, but if this team is going to be the best version of itself when it matters Kyrie is going to have to be off the ball and eat third imo. 

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ztejas

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5 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Just watched the last minute of regulation and both OT’s. Sexton- wowzers- have yourself a night. Kyrie with the last possession was the wrong choice imo. Ball should have been with Harden or Durant. 
I think Kyrie had twice as many shots as Harden. I’m sure they are trying to work him back in and make him happy and give him his touches, but if this team is going to be the best version of itself when it matters Kyrie is going to have to be off the ball and eat third imo. 

Harden was bad. It's going to take him the longest to figure out his role. Kyrie was Kyrie. He took a couple bad shots but that's what he's going to do. They'll figure it out. They were fantastic to close the 4th Q and should have won in OT. I'm not sure this roster is going to cut it, though. Jeff Green is not good. He cost them 5 or 6 possessions tonight with horrible decision making. 

7 minutes ago, Machinator said:

 

Net's D was bad but not horrific. They had some nice stretches especially towards the end. CLE only had 51 in the first half I beleive - they got really hot in the 3rd Q and Sexton went nuclear at the end. Cleveland might shoot like this another 3 times this season.

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12 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Sexton- wowzers- have yourself a night.

Games like tonight will hopefully make people recognize what's been obvious since the midpoint of his rookie year - he's a very good player.  It's just defensively, pairing him with Garland, that's a problem.

Tonight was reminiscent of Lebron vs the Bucks 15 or 16 years ago.

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Wulaw Horn

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9 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Harden was bad. It's going to take him the longest to figure out his role. Kyrie was Kyrie. He took a couple bad shots but that's what he's going to do. They'll figure it out. They were fantastic to close the 4th Q and should have won in OT. I'm not sure this roster is going to cut it, though. Jeff Green is not good. He cost them 5 or 6 possessions tonight with horrible decision making. 

Net's D was bad but not horrific. They had some nice stretches especially towards the end. CLE only had 51 in the first half I beleive - they got really hot in the 3rd Q and Sexton went nuclear at the end. Cleveland might shoot like this another 3 times this season.

Like I said- I just watched the last play in the 4th quarter and OT. Harden looked good in the little bit I saw but if you said he was bad I have no reason to doubt you. 

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ztejas

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14 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Like I said- I just watched the last play in the 4th quarter and OT. Harden looked good in the little bit I saw but if you said he was bad I have no reason to doubt you. 

Thought I replied to this. He wasn't bad - he still had 11 dimes and had some nice buckets - it just wasn't a good night for him. I thought he struggled when it came to running the offense and setting the pace of the game - he seemed indecisive all night when it came to shooting vs. attacking vs. kicking it out.

They will figure it out and wind up hammering teams when everything clicks but there will be more nights like last night. They NEED, NEED, NEED a PF or stretch 5 that can play D, rebound and pass the ball a little bit. Jeff Green cannot start at SF/PF for this team. He is not an NBA starter and should be getting 15 mins a game at most. Their young cat (name escaping me) had a tough night and while he has flashed I'm not sure they can sit and wait for him to turn into a championship level role player. 

If you put prime Lamar Odom on this team holy fuck they would be awesome. Just find a poor man's version of that. (Or prime Bosh - God damn that would be perfect)

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d2o

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27 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Jarrett Allen for essentially pick 27 (I think that’s how that part of the deal netted out) is insane. Was there something else that went to Cleveland before getting flipped to houston that was compelling or necessary to the deal?  

These small teams are wising up and catching big teams so desperate to make that big move that they rob them in process.    I know Allen was looking for a big deal that BKN either could not or were not going to give him and they have Deandre Jordan but I cannot figure out why it took so much to get a pick that any and everyone knows is going to be no higher than 25 (prolly closer to 30).    Shit I bet they could have just sent CLE 3-5M for the pick.

 I'm very big on not letting a middling guy keep you from getting a superstar if the deal is there but this one is confusing.    I could see it if HOU was insisting on getting him but just to get another late pick is a tough sell.     Maybe they've seen enough from Claxton in practice to know he is ready when he gets healthy. 

They will get some buyout help too in a couple months but still.

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Wulaw Horn

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14 minutes ago, d2o said:

These small teams are wising up and catching big teams so desperate to make that big move that they rob them in process.    I know Allen was looking for a big deal that BKN either could not or were not going to give him and they have Deandre Jordan but I cannot figure out why it took so much to get a pick that any and everyone knows is going to be no higher than 25 (prolly closer to 30).    Shit I bet they could have just sent CLE 3-5M for the pick.

 I'm very big on not letting a middling guy keep you from getting a superstar if the deal is there but this one is confusing.    I could see it if HOU was insisting on getting him but just to get another late pick is a tough sell.     Maybe they've seen enough from Claxton in practice to know he is ready when he gets healthy. 

They will get some buyout help too in a couple months but still.

Yep. This is my take away on the trade. If houston wants another pick that’s around 30 go buy 2 early second rounders and send them on the way and hold onto Allen because he might be mission critical to winning the title, which is what going all in on Harden is about I’m the first place. 
Weird. 

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Vic Mackey

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After watching the Nets last night, they seem like a more mature version of those fun OKC teams to watch with KD/Harden/Westrbrook. They have kinks to work out but once they get going, it's going to get even better. No idea how long this can be sustained but it will be a fun ride from a neutral observer. 

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cmontexas

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KD is so fun to watch, especially with defenses unable to key on him. The Nets really dont have to make any moves besides looking for a cheap big to help out defensively. Id like to see a Kyrie for Simmons swap though, I think it turns 2 playoff teams with question marks into title contenders though.

Nets play Simmons as a small ball 5, he can anchor the defense and pass and wreak havoc around the rim with defenses spread out trying to guard Harden and KD.

Punished Kyrie is an elite #2 who can win a title with the right #1, and Embiid is good enough to win titles with the right number 2. Seriously he's really fucking good and the Sixers are wasting him. Simmons is not that #2 but he'd be an elite #3 and a perfect fit with the Nets-the Draymond to those KD and Harden's Splash Brothers 

Theoretically Kyrie would be motivated by his friends kicking him to the curb and a Nets-76ers playoff series with two great teams and lots of personal drama would be dimes.

 

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d2o

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9 hours ago, Machinator said:

 

Yeah I figured he would get a shot somewhere.     His talent is reportedly off the charts.   Giving away a protected 2nd (I'm guessing its probably about 3-4 yrs out too) makes it a low risk/high reward shot worth taking.

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aggie08

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41 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

The Pels are going to be the new "they're a year or two away" every year team aren't they

Is that better or worse than being the team that squeaks into the playoffs, yet "no one wants to face them"? Given to whatever team Russ is on four years running.

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Patrick Bateman

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3 hours ago, BradInATX said:

The Pels are going to be the new "they're a year or two away" every year team aren't they

Zion would need to develop into a superstar..... They got themselves a good 2 in Ingram.  Need some guard play, Ball is pretty shitty because of his inability to shoot.... from anywhere.  Need shooting too.  That team is pretty bereft of talent right now.  

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BradInATX

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12 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Zion would need to develop into a superstar..... They got themselves a good 2 in Ingram.  Need some guard play, Ball is pretty shitty because of his inability to shoot.... from anywhere.  Need shooting too.  That team is pretty bereft of talent right now.  

My NOLA friends are pretty much done with Ball. And Jaxson Hayes.

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ztejas

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20 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Zion would need to develop into a superstar..... They got themselves a good 2 in Ingram.  Need some guard play, Ball is pretty shitty because of his inability to shoot.... from anywhere.  Need shooting too.  That team is pretty bereft of talent right now.  

 

7 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

My NOLA friends are pretty much done with Ball. And Jaxson Hayes.

Their roster is a fucking disaster and their coaching isn't much better. They are paying Adams, Bledsoe, Redick and Lonzo a combined seventy million for this season. They need to tear everything down and rebuild around BI and Zion. Stan is in over his head and I'm not sure Trajan knows what he's doing, either. 

Ingram will never be a #1 on a title winner but he might be more than good enough to be a #2 - Zion has that potential to be a #1 - they just need better pieces around those two and a coach that can learn new tricks. 

But, I expect Zion to leave and for them to wander the desert for another 12 years or until the franchise gets moved because it's the Pelicans.

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BradInATX

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9 minutes ago, ztejas said:

 

Their roster is a fucking disaster and their coaching isn't much better. They are paying Adams, Bledsoe, Redick and Lonzo a combined seventy million for this season. They need to tear everything down and rebuild around BI and Zion. Stan is in over his head and I'm not sure Trajan knows what he's doing, either. 

Ingram will never be a #1 on a title winner but he might be more than good enough to be a #2 - Zion has that potential to be a #1 - they just need better pieces around those two and a coach that can learn new tricks. 

But, I expect Zion to leave and for them to wander the desert for another 12 years or until the franchise gets moved because it's the Pelicans.

I had a big offseason debate with them about Ingram and the "is he a #1 guy or a #2 guy" thing, which I completely agree with you about. 

Also agree on the roster. There were obvious spacing and ball movement problems. I figured that they'd improve on their record from last year purely because Gentry is terrible and the young guys would develop. But I guess what we've learned is:

- Stan Van Gundy is terrible too. Or, Gentry isn't as bad as I thought. But I'm going to go with Gentry is terrible and Van Gundy is antiquated and shitty
- Eric Bledsoe is who we thought he was
- Outside of Zion, we haven't seen a lot of development from the young guys.
- They miss Jrue Holiday a lot

I guess the Holiday trade was thought to be for the long-term future so we have to withhold some judgemen for now. But he's off having the best season of his career in Milwaukee and the Pelicans are 5-9 in the basement of the West. At some point this team is going to need to show some short-term improvement or Zion is going to bolt and they're going to be turbo fucked.
 

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d2o

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56 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Zion would need to develop into a superstar..... They got themselves a good 2 in Ingram.  Need some guard play, Ball is pretty shitty because of his inability to shoot.... from anywhere.  Need shooting too.  That team is pretty bereft of talent right now.  

Its funny cause I was told over and over that they were stacked after they robbed the Lakers of all of their young talent.    

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MNLonghornFUKM

MNLonghornFUKM 8984

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Another week, another terrible Shaq interview "question"
 
 

Why’s it terrible? Dudes a Max player and has maybe gotten to round 2 once? And that’s with a 7 foot DPOY center, decent to good starting point guards.


I’m not the biggest Mitchell fan. Seems like a volume scorer. He can score 39 any night but it may take 31 shots. He doesn’t strike any fear when it comes to the playoffs. His response was what I’d expect out of a beta


But then again he could become one of the best players in the league after this
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d2o

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15 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:


Why’s it terrible? Dudes a Max player and has maybe gotten to round 2 once? And that’s with a 7 foot DPOY center, decent to good starting point guards.


I’m not the biggest Mitchell fan. Seems like a volume scorer. He can score 39 any night but it may take 31 shots. He doesn’t strike any fear when it comes to the playoffs. His response was what I’d expect out of a beta


But then again he could become one of the best players in the league after this

Mainly cause Shaq made it about him.   Like Mitchell gives a fuck or is motivated by what he says.    That's that Skip Bayless type shit.  They say some shit about a guy and then if he plays well they say it was cause they motivated them.   Cmon man these guys work hard as fuck to be the best they can be.

More importantly, he is what in his 4th yr and just had a dynamite playoffs.   He hasn't even started his max deal yet.   Do you think they underachieved or something?   A toss up with DEN is about right where they should have been last yr.

If you wanna talk about a max guy in UTA not getting it done maybe look at Mike Conley.

 

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Patrick Bateman

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2 hours ago, ztejas said:

 

Their roster is a fucking disaster and their coaching isn't much better. They are paying Adams, Bledsoe, Redick and Lonzo a combined seventy million for this season. They need to tear everything down and rebuild around BI and Zion. Stan is in over his head and I'm not sure Trajan knows what he's doing, either. 

Ingram will never be a #1 on a title winner but he might be more than good enough to be a #2 - Zion has that potential to be a #1 - they just need better pieces around those two and a coach that can learn new tricks. 

But, I expect Zion to leave and for them to wander the desert for another 12 years or until the franchise gets moved because it's the Pelicans.

I don't think Ingram is expected to be a #1 but considering where he was 2 years ago, he's looking like a core player.  A 2nd or 3rd guy.  Zion needs to continue to improve and take that big jump to star level and they'll have a brighter future.  Again, Lonzo's shooting challenges make him a below average player.  He's just never going to be a star.  I think his upside right now is starter level and he's a long way away.  

2 hours ago, d2o said:

Its funny cause I was told over and over that they were stacked after they robbed the Lakers of all of their young talent.    

They pretty much got all they could.  At least they got a core player out of the deal and draft capital.  Trading a superstar being leveraged never works out.  Hart has been disappointing too.  But they can let those guys go in UFA and save some cap space.  Redick's on an expiring and they can either trade him on the cheap or maybe buy him out and let him go ring chase.  Bledsoe is an issue with 2 more years left but he can be moved.  They're a long way away and need to draft better but maybe if they get another piece in the lottery and a couple of value guys in FA, they can take the next step.  Team definitely needs a make over.  I'd probably get rid of all the vets somehow -- Bledsoe, Adams, Redick, Hart, etc.

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MNLonghornFUKM

MNLonghornFUKM 8984

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By awesome do you mean scoring a ton of points in the meanwhile giving up an insane amount of points to Jamal Murray? And also losing a 3-1 lead?

Then by all means great. They got their asses kicked by Houston 4-1 in the previous 2 years. Guess we’ll see how he handles this post shaq interview.


And yea you’re probably right with shaq puffing his chest saying he motivated Mitchell...but Mitchell isn’t exactly who I’d fear like Kobe in the playoffs despite being paid like one.

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Patrick Bateman

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25 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:


Why’s it terrible? Dudes a Max player and has maybe gotten to round 2 once? And that’s with a 7 foot DPOY center, decent to good starting point guards.


I’m not the biggest Mitchell fan. Seems like a volume scorer. He can score 39 any night but it may take 31 shots. He doesn’t strike any fear when it comes to the playoffs. His response was what I’d expect out of a beta


But then again he could become one of the best players in the league after this

It's a bad question because it's not about anything but Shaq's opinion.  Maybe ask, what kind of improvements do you think you need to make to take your game and your team to the next level?  How are you working on those holes in your game?  That written, your assessment of Mitchell isn't off.  That' sort of where he is right now.  He's exciting and can have those monster games but he's not a #1 on a contending team.  He is improving though but typically you know if a guy is a superstar or foundational player by year 5.  Generally you know it by year 3.

 

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