2020-2021 NBA Thread of Insanity

[Radical Larry 28528]

 

[Braff Zacklin 13414]

5 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Curry is so ridiculous. He isn't going to drag a team kicking and screaming anywhere like LeBron but from an individual talent standpoint he's as good as anyone to ever play.

I think one learns more about the "greats" when they are on shit teams. I used to think of Steph as merely an elite shooter--possibly the best ever--but after watching him these past couple of seasons, I realize I was dumb. He's a complete basketball player ... and the best shooter ever.

He really is quite something.

But I still hate the way he chews on his mouthpiece. LoL

[DonkeyCigars 144]

Used to be a Steph hater. Love him so much the past two years which has retroactively gotten me to love him in the earlier years too. One of the greats who is also a good human being.

[Machinator 32097]

 

[aggie08 21431]

So is Steph now officially the best sub 6'6" player in NBA history? It's he, Oscar, and West in some order.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

Isaiah probably belongs in that conversation somewhere as an honorable mention. 

[Fastbreak 3959]

6 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Isaiah probably belongs in that conversation somewhere as an honorable mention. 

He belongs in the conversation only if he is presenting a list of the great players. 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

He belongs in the conversation only if he is presenting a list of the great players. 

He said under 6’6”. Theres not A lot of those dudes who have bee best player on a title team 2 times (and also dominated in the ncaa). He’s not the best ever of those guys but he’s up there. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18523]

12 hours ago, aggie08 said:

So is Steph now officially the best sub 6'6" player in NBA history? It's he, Oscar, and West in some order.

Probably so. Guys off the top of my head in that neighborhood: Chris Paul, Kidd, Stockton, Isiah, Wade, Gary Payton, Iverson, Harden, Walt Frazier, Nash, Tiny Archibald, Lillard. I think I'm taking Curry over all of them.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Probably so. Guys off the top of my head in that neighborhood: Chris Paul, Kidd, Stockton, Isiah, Wade, Gary Payton, Iverson, Harden, Walt Frazier, Nash, Tiny Archibald, Lillard. I think I'm taking Curry over all of them.

Elgin Baylor.  At his peak, Baylor was averaging almost 45 minutes a game in a high pace era, 38.3 PPG, 18.6 RPG, and 4.6 APG.  They didn't track steals or blocks back then but from most reports of that era, Baylor was a pretty fierce defensive force, and would have averaged 4-5 steals and blocks a game.  Sometimes he was considered to be the original Rodman on the defensive end with Julius Erving's offensive game.  He was sort of ahead of his time, in being the ridiculously uber-athletic forward who could play in the post, had a bit of a face up game, got out on the break and played killer defense.  He also did this being on active Army duty for a few years.  Obviously the hole in his resume' were the Celtics and the era he played in didn't have a 3 point line.

 

[UDontKnow 10439]

 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18523]

3 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Elgin Baylor.  At his peak, Baylor was averaging almost 45 minutes a game in a high pace era, 38.3 PPG, 18.6 RPG, and 4.6 APG.  They didn't track steals or blocks back then but from most reports of that era, Baylor was a pretty fierce defensive force, and would have averaged 4-5 steals and blocks a game.  Sometimes he was considered to be the original Rodman on the defensive end with Julius Erving's offensive game.  He was sort of ahead of his time, in being the ridiculously uber-athletic forward who could play in the post, had a bit of a face up game, got out on the break and played killer defense.  He also did this being on active Army duty for a few years.  Obviously the hole in his resume' were the Celtics and the era he played in didn't have a 3 point line.

 

I always thought Elgin Baylor was 6'7" or 6'9", but you're right.... listed at 6'5". For sure should have been on that list. 

[d2o 1602]

3 hours ago, UDontKnow said:

 

Dude has had a really tough time with the health of his family over the yrs.    Just awful to have to bury your child.

[d2o 1602]

18 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Isaiah probably belongs in that conversation somewhere as an honorable mention. 

Hope you mean Isiah not Isaiah.   Big difference

 

EDIT:   Saw your next post.   You did.   Whew.

Edited April 19, 2021 by d2o

[d2o 1602]

6 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Elgin Baylor.  At his peak, Baylor was averaging almost 45 minutes a game in a high pace era, 38.3 PPG, 18.6 RPG, and 4.6 APG.  They didn't track steals or blocks back then but from most reports of that era, Baylor was a pretty fierce defensive force, and would have averaged 4-5 steals and blocks a game.  Sometimes he was considered to be the original Rodman on the defensive end with Julius Erving's offensive game.  He was sort of ahead of his time, in being the ridiculously uber-athletic forward who could play in the post, had a bit of a face up game, got out on the break and played killer defense.  He also did this being on active Army duty for a few years.  Obviously the hole in his resume' were the Celtics and the era he played in didn't have a 3 point line.

 

Yep on top of all of that at one stretch he was only playing weekend games as he was actually serving active duty during the week.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

5 minutes ago, d2o said:

Yep on top of all of that at one stretch he was only playing weekend games as he was actually serving active duty during the week.

I would have thought 6’7 too. As a 6’5 guy he’s my choice for GOAT. 

[conVINCEd 21468]

49 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I would have thought 6’7 too. As a 6’5 guy he’s my choice for GOAT. 

Still Steph, but it certainly makes for a more interesting conversation.

[CBT 1281]

Holy shit Steph

[westexhorn 2006]

Steph just obliterated the 76ers

[Radical Larry 28528]

 

[aggie08 21431]

Steph has 21 games with 10+ threes in his career (4 in the last week). Klay is 2nd with 5. No one else has more than 3. That's stupid.

Machinator beat me to it up thread.

Edited April 20, 2021 by aggie08

[Machinator 32097]

He's not going to win it... but this is as strong an MVP case for a player on a middling team as you're going to find.

[aggie08 21431]

7 minutes ago, Machinator said:

He's not going to win it... 

I'm definitely not as convinced of that as I was a week ago.

Their schedule eases up the rest of the way out. 9 of their 14 remaining games are against teams with losing records. If they go 10-4, and finish at 39-33 (which would make them 38-26 when Steph plays) continuing to do what he's been doing, that's a solid case.

Edited April 20, 2021 by aggie08

[Machinator 32097]

 

[BigOrange1 6422]

13 minutes ago, Machinator said:

 

that is fucking stupid.

[Radical Larry 28528]

 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

58 minutes ago, Machinator said:

 

This last stretch from Steph has been pretty epic.  He's been crazy efficient lately.  Carried me in the first round of my fantasy playoffs.  Hope he can keep it going, but really this is an all-time stretch.  Good for him.

[Machinator 32097]

 

[Blotto 23432]

best part of that grayson missed dunk is the little princess getting up looking for the call. 

[washparkhorn 9935]

and then getting beaned  with the ball by mini-mite Facu Campazzo - gaining possession for Denver. poor thing

Edited April 20, 2021 by washparkhorn

[aggie08 21431]

7 hours ago, Machinator said:

 

Assuming Denver doesn't go into a tailspin (unlikely), gotta think here's your MVP.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

3 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Assuming Denver doesn't go into a tailspin (unlikely), gotta think here's your MVP.

Yeah, except every time we've said that about someone they've immediately missed 4-6 weeks after we said that.  If he stays healthy it pretty much has to be him by default.  Unless you wanted to give it to Giannis, which nobody does (rightly so in my opinion). 

[d2o 1602]

14 hours ago, Machinator said:

 

Absolutely absurd.   

[washparkhorn 9935]

 

[Machinator 32097]

 

[Fastbreak 3959]

Player A
Mins Per Game: 36.3
Points: 19.2
Assists: 9.3
Rebounds: 3.6
2P%: .468
3P%: .290
eFG: .465
FT%: .759

Player B
Mins Per Game: 35.6
Points: 19.1
Assists: 9.1
Rebounds: 4.3
2P%: .456
3P%: .324
eFG: .462
FT%: .779

Hint: Player A is Isiah - Player B is John Fucking Wall.  They are statistically identical. Isiah was a better player, but he shouldn't be in the convo as a top 5 short guy. There are 4 better right now in the league:

Steph
Harden
Russ
CP3
.....and perhaps Dame

 

 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

4 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

Player A
Mins Per Game: 36.3
Points: 19.2
Assists: 9.3
Rebounds: 3.6
2P%: .468
3P%: .290
eFG: .465
FT%: .759

Player B
Mins Per Game: 35.6
Points: 19.1
Assists: 9.1
Rebounds: 4.3
2P%: .456
3P%: .324
eFG: .462
FT%: .779

Hint: Player A is Isiah - Player B is John Fucking Wall.  They are statistically identical. Isiah was a better player, but he shouldn't be in the convo as a top 5 short guy. There are 4 better right now in the league:

Steph
Harden
Russ
CP3
.....and perhaps Dame

 

 

That totally ignores context of leagues, when they played, and IT’s ability to do what he had to do to make his team win in a time when the league was stacked. 
they ended bird and held off MJ for 3 years and IT was responsible for so much of that. He’s better than Wall and Westbrook for sure. 
hell- that 3% for him was probably near the league lead for his time. bird led the league one year at like 32%

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

48 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

That totally ignores context of leagues, when they played, and IT’s ability to do what he had to do to make his team win in a time when the league was stacked. 
they ended bird and held off MJ for 3 years and IT was responsible for so much of that. He’s better than Wall and Westbrook for sure. 
hell- that 3% for him was probably near the league lead for his time. bird led the league one year at like 32%

I agree with much of this although I do think Isiah is a tad overrated, but the worst possible comparison is comparing players from an era 40 years ago to an era now.  It's silly and all the context is lost.  Compare Isiah to players of his era and how he stacked up.  I feel Isiah has a little of the Kobe Bryant effect, he had great individual moments especially early in his career and was the leader (co-leader) of a championship squad, but many put him way above where his numbers say he should be placed.

[Vic Mackey 46934]

[d2o 1602]

7 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

Player A
Mins Per Game: 36.3
Points: 19.2
Assists: 9.3
Rebounds: 3.6
2P%: .468
3P%: .290
eFG: .465
FT%: .759

Player B
Mins Per Game: 35.6
Points: 19.1
Assists: 9.1
Rebounds: 4.3
2P%: .456
3P%: .324
eFG: .462
FT%: .779

Hint: Player A is Isiah - Player B is John Fucking Wall.  They are statistically identical. Isiah was a better player, but he shouldn't be in the convo as a top 5 short guy. There are 4 better right now in the league:

Steph
Harden
Russ
CP3
.....and perhaps Dame

 

 

Good grief

[Mitch Cumsteen 18523]

 

8 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

Player A
Mins Per Game: 36.3
Points: 19.2
Assists: 9.3
Rebounds: 3.6
2P%: .468
3P%: .290
eFG: .465
FT%: .759

Player B
Mins Per Game: 35.6
Points: 19.1
Assists: 9.1
Rebounds: 4.3
2P%: .456
3P%: .324
eFG: .462
FT%: .779

Hint: Player A is Isiah - Player B is John Fucking Wall.  They are statistically identical. Isiah was a better player, but he shouldn't be in the convo as a top 5 short guy. There are 4 better right now in the league:

Steph
Harden
Russ
CP3
.....and perhaps Dame

 

 

I can almost get past the idiotic Isiah/Wall comparison, especially since Wall's career trajectory was completely wrecked by injury. There's no telling what he could have been. It's horribly ill informed, but whatever.

And I can maybe get onboard with Harden and CP3 being ranked above Isiah, even though I don't necessarily think they were and neither of them has ever won shit... but Russell Westbrook? Are you fucking kidding me? He's the absolute antithesis of Isiah Thomas. Westbrook is the epitome of the empty stat sheet stuffer, putting his own numbers up while his team loses night after night.

Don't get me wrong, I can't stand Isiah as a person, but all that fucker cared about was winning. That's it. He would cut his mother's throat out if it meant winning a basketball game. He didn't give a shit how many points he scored or if his teammates were getting the glory, he just wanted to win. His stats may not show it and he's an absolute phony piece of shit human being, but he had more competitive drive in his pinky than Harden and Westbrook do combined in their whole bodies.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Mitch Cumsteen

[HookEm 2444]

Here's another player to add to the mix.  Numbers below are his best 3-year run...

Player C
Mins Per Game: 37.0
Points: 19.0
Assists: 10.6
Rebounds: 3.3
2P%: .483
3P%: .358
eFG: .522
FT%: .817

2x All-NBA 2nd Team 

That player.... Deron Williams

[shadow_operative 15932]

Russ > Zeke

[ztejas 43263]

I think IT trends towards overrated, personally (like - I'd definitely take CP3 over IT all-time),  but putting Russ above him - 2021 dogshit-teammate couldn't-win-anything-if-he-tried Russ at that - is just...

Edited April 21, 2021 by ztejas

[shadow_operative 15932]

Zeke is one of those guys who is somehow both overrated and underrated. i tend to lean towards him being more underrated, because his stats aren't eye popping, and if you didn't watch him play and lead his team to multiple titles in a very competitive era, then you probably won't appreciate him as a player as much as you should. i mean, has anyone here even mentioned Steve Nash in this conversation? two-time MVP Steve Nash? we've had probably 8 or 9 named thrown out there, and i don't remember hearing his. statistically and (many would say) aesthetically Nash >> Zeke. and yet Nash isn't in this conversation. that's why it's tricky to play stay games across generations. 

also, pretty much everyone agrees that Isiah deserved to be on the Dream Team, so let's keep that (and his two titles) in mind before we start throwing out names like Dame Dolla and John Wall. 

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

I think IT trends towards overrated, personally (like - I'd definitely take CP3 over IT all-time),  but putting Russ above him - 2021 dogshit-teammate couldn't-win-anything-if-he-tried Russ at that - is just...

I love and respect CP3 and the difference he makes to teams but no way in hell should anyone take him over Zeke.    I wonder if many of your guys actually watched him play.

[ztejas 43263]

1 hour ago, shadow_operative said:

Zeke is one of those guys who is somehow both overrated and underrated. i tend to lean towards him being more underrated, because his stats aren't eye popping, and if you didn't watch him play and lead his team to multiple titles in a very competitive era, then you probably won't appreciate him as a player as much as you should. i mean, has anyone here even mentioned Steve Nash in this conversation? two-time MVP Steve Nash? we've had probably 8 or 9 named thrown out there, and i don't remember hearing his. statistically and (many would say) aesthetically Nash >> Zeke. and yet Nash isn't in this conversation. that's why it's tricky to play stay games across generations. 

also, pretty much everyone agrees that Isiah deserved to be on the Dream Team, so let's keep that (and his two titles) in mind before we start throwing out names like Dame Dolla and John Wall. 

 

48 minutes ago, d2o said:

I love and respect CP3 and the difference he makes to teams but no way in hell should anyone take him over Zeke.    I wonder if many of your guys actually watched him play.

Let me ask you this: what did Zeke do on the basketball court that CP3 doesn't do better.

[d2o 1602]

45 minutes ago, ztejas said:

 

Let me ask you this: what did Zeke do on the basketball court that CP3 doesn't do better.

First, make it all the way through a season but far more importantly, win.

[shadow_operative 15932]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

 

Let me ask you this: what did Zeke do on the basketball court that CP3 doesn't do better.

before i even answer the question, let's establish that today's players are more talented than players were 40 years ago, across the board in every sport. that said, Zeke was a ball handling wizard and is one of the greatest dribblers/ball handlers of all time.  that's a skill that Zeke had that is superior to what CP3 has. 

another thing that Zeke did on the court better than CP3 was win. he led his teams to huge victories and championships time and again, and he could single handedly take over a close game against the likes of the Bulls, Lakers, and Celtics. Zeke scored an NBA Finals record 25 points in one quarter against the Lakers, and he was hurt when he did it. to use your own words, it's not the stats that make Zeke so great, it's what he did on the court that elevates him over so many guys with flashier stats and highlight reels. 

[d2o 1602]