2020-2021 NBA Thread of Insanity

[conVINCEd 21468]

7 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I've seen Harden plenty -- pounding away to either try a step back three or getting a pick and going downhill and then forcing contact at the rack for his endless parade to the free throw line, or kicking to an open three.  That ain't how Curry is doing it, at all. If you can't tell the difference, then I don't know what to tell you. It's one thing to double team a guy to take the ball out of his hands. It's another having to faceguard some dude 40 feet from the basket because his range is so absurd. And the talent around Harden wasn't always great shakes, but they at least surrounded him with a ton of dudes who could knock down an open three. The Warriors are doing it with Draymond, Wiggins and Kelly Oubre. They have no spacing and he's still unguardable.

And Harden is a singular talent, an offensive machine. I don't intend to demean him and my post wasn't about him at all. But mostly I can't believe Rocket fans still have a chip on their shoulder about him after he took the world's biggest shit all over you. Any discussion about James Harden should begin and end with, "The Rockets did everything in the world to make him happy from personnel moves to modifying travel plans to accommodate his titty bar schedule, and he still showed up out of shape and then just flat out quit on them to force a trade." How you guys can have any response other than "Fuck James Harden" to anything is beyond me. I should know. I'm a charter member of the fuck Kawhi Leonard club.

As a Dallas fan who was a founding member of the Fuck Rajon Rondo Club I approve this message.

[Kermit 3128]

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I've seen Harden plenty -- pounding away to either try a step back three or getting a pick and going downhill and then forcing contact at the rack for his endless parade to the free throw line, or kicking to an open three.  That ain't how Curry is doing it, at all. If you can't tell the difference, then I don't know what to tell you. It's one thing to double team a guy to take the ball out of his hands. It's another having to faceguard some dude 40 feet from the basket because his range is so absurd. And the talent around Harden wasn't always great shakes, but they at least surrounded him with a ton of dudes who could knock down an open three. The Warriors are doing it with Draymond, Wiggins and Kelly Oubre. They have no spacing and he's still unguardable.

And Harden is a singular talent, an offensive machine. I don't intend to demean him and my post wasn't about him at all. But mostly I can't believe Rocket fans still have a chip on their shoulder about him after he took the world's biggest shit all over you. Any discussion about James Harden should begin and end with, "The Rockets did everything in the world to make him happy from personnel moves to modifying travel plans to accommodate his titty bar schedule, and he still showed up out of shape and then just flat out quit on them to force a trade." How you guys can have any response other than "Fuck James Harden" to anything is beyond me. I should know. I'm a charter member of the fuck Kawhi Leonard club.

Fuck Kawhi Leonard and fuck James Harden too.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

On 4/24/2021 at 10:12 AM, Wulaw Horn said:

Yeah man Harden scores 30 plus and averaged 40 over like a 35 game stretch 2 years ago, on a team that finished tied for the 3 seed a couple years back and he finished a distant 2nd or 3rd to Giannis. 
that’s not to say Curry won’t win, just that this isn’t unprecedented. 
his true shooting percentage was something like 63% and that had lots of assists and rebounds too. Harden is much less popular than Steph and nobody else has the narrative other than Joker so you might be right. 
 

It's not that Jokic has the narrative, it's he has the numbers.  He's 2nd in PER (to Embiid), 1st in WS, WS/48, OBPM, BPM, and VORP.  And it's not just by a little, he's like hurdling dudes.  In VORP, he's 2.5 ahead of the next guy.  That's basically like 2nd place + Donovan Mitchell!  He's 3.5 ahead of the next best in BPM.  And in Win Shares, he's 3.6 ahead of 2nd place.  Again, his contributions are like that of 2nd place + Marcus Smart.  It's fucking crazy and he's played every game, which in this age, is a statement in itself. 

There really is no other option.  Embiid has been crazy good but he's missed almost 1/3 of the season.  His metrics are the only one which come close and that's on a per game basis.  Can't miss 19 games and think you're the MVP.  Freak has missed 9 games and his previous 2 years were a little better.  Curry's missed 8 games and parts of 2 others.  Rudy Gobert is having a fantastic season too, but c'mon.  This isn't really very close..... at all.  It's Jokic's to lose by a wide margin.  I guess if he comes out in a Nazi uniform in pre-game and then moons all the fans on national TV, then he could theoretically lose it, but even then.  Oh, and his team is tied for best record out of all the serious contenders for the award (Not counting Gobert).  But the tragedy is gonna be, if things stay where they are now; the Nuggets are going to play the Lakers, who will be at full strength and the Nuggets without Murray and they'll probably lose and folks will pan the selection.

 

 

[Machinator 32097]

Chris Paul had an insane run of shotmaking to close out the Knicks tonight.

[Post Oak 20184]

Terrible news for Jon Tjarks

 

[Machinator 32097]

 

[Machinator 32097]

 

[Vic Mackey 46936]

Um wut?

 

[UpperWestside 6136]

3 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Um wut?

 

Okay that’s humorous, but you know that mentally the season has worn on him. He is playing with young guys who as yet have not learned how to win. He apologized to his teammates after the game. Takes a big person to do that because some pride is being swallowed.
 

I think Love should ask for a game or two off so he can mentally get things in order. He has been as open as any player has about mental health awareness and losing is clearly taking a toll on his mental health.

[Mole 4320]

11 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

"The Rockets did everything in the world to make him happy from personnel moves to modifying travel plans to accommodate his titty bar schedule, and he still showed up out of shape and then just flat out quit on them to force a trade."

When the definitive book on this era of the NBA is written, this better be the opening line.

[d2o 1602]

8 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

Okay that’s humorous, but you know that mentally the season has worn on him. He is playing with young guys who as yet have not learned how to win. He apologized to his teammates after the game. Takes a big person to do that because some pride is being swallowed.
 

I think Love should ask for a game or two off so he can mentally get things in order. He has been as open as any player has about mental health awareness and losing is clearly taking a toll on his mental health.

Sometimes peace of mind is better than money.   He knew this was going to be the ultimate result when he signed that big longterm contract to stay in CLE.  

[conVINCEd 21468]

13 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Um wut?

 

What was the point spread situation at the time?

[UpperWestside 6136]

8 minutes ago, d2o said:

Sometimes peace of mind is better than money.   He knew this was going to be the ultimate result when he signed that big longterm contract to stay in CLE.  

I am sure he wanted his final big payday, but man the cost mentally seems to have beaten him down. I feel bad for most anyone when you can tell they are not happy. It can be a homeless person I pass on the street or a multi-millionaire athlete struggling mentally like so many of us have during the pandemic.

I would imagine if someone offers Cleveland ten cents on the dollar in value to take him they’ll do it this off-season. 

[UpperWestside 6136]

2 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

What was the point spread situation at the time?

76-70 before that play.

[conVINCEd 21468]

9 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

76-70 before that play.

A quick google search tells me Toronto was favored by 10.5 and ended up covering that number, so that play certainly helped.

[shadow_operative 15932]

not sure where to post this, but thought it was cool:

 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

16 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

not sure where to post this, but thought it was cool:

 

Truly one of the biggest athletic anomalies of all-time, in all the best ways.  It's always funny to me when discussing GOAT's, the Wilt is so easily dismissed now.  I simply break them up to pre-merger and post and mainly because we can't understand what physical marvels Wilt, Russell and to some degree Baylor were.  They were on par or better athletes (just from an athletic manner) than most, if not all but handful, of players today.  These guys were just built differently.  Look at the minutes played in a high pace, high intensity game during their primes.  Truly special athletes.

 

[shadow_operative 15932]

i just tuned in to the rockets vs wolves game and the first four possessions saw Christian Wood go 0-2 from deep for HOU and KAT go 0-2 from deep for the wolves. NBA 2021 baby. All threes all the time.

edit: and now they each just drained one, lol. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by shadow_operative

[shadow_operative 15932]

KAT out here getting the Shaq treatment. The Rockets are trying to bludgeon him to death on every play and he's getting no calls. things are getting chippy. even Avery Bradley got into it with Jarred Vanderbilt. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by shadow_operative

[Napoleon 8604]

On 4/26/2021 at 10:18 PM, Vic Mackey said:

Um wut?

 

 

17 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

A quick google search tells me Toronto was favored by 10.5 and ended up covering that number, so that play certainly helped.

Love was the only player on the Cavs with a positive +/-  ...maybe he isn't the problem there, and it's getting to him.

 

[d2o 1602]

5 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

 

Didn't think of Doc being a hater but here we are.    His first team is comprised of three guys that played together on  a "super team".    His 2nd team has 2 that did.  Then Bird and MJ who both did.   Hate on brotha.   More importantly HE PLAYED ON A SUPER TEAM!!

Edited April 28, 2021 by d2o

[d2o 1602]

 

 

 

[shadow_operative 15932]

of everyone in the city of Cleveland right now, Kevin Love has earned the right to have a mental lapse (no pun intended) or two every now and again. 

[aggie08 21432]

12 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

 

Old legend's Top 10 doesn't consist of a single player whose prime was in the 2000's. Also in the news, water: wet.

[d2o 1602]

2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Old legend's Top 10 doesn't consist of a single player whose prime was in the 2000's. Also in the news, water: wet.

....

Edited April 28, 2021 by d2o
delete post, ban user

[Mole 4320]

Also, MJ and Magic are second team?

[HookEm 2444]

Give me:  LeBron, Kobe, Durant, Tim Duncan, Olajuwon and I am pretty confident we would beat either of those two other teams.  Swap out Durant for Curry and move LeBron to the 3 and we still win.  Swap out Durant for Kawhi and we still win. Swap out Olajuwon for Shaq and we still win.

[d2o 1602]

25 minutes ago, Mole said:

Also, MJ and Magic are second team?

It appears he tried to do it in eras.   At least that's my hope.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

8 hours ago, d2o said:

Didn't think of Doc being a hater but here we are.    His first team is comprised of three guys that played together on  a "super team".    His 2nd team has 2 that did.  Then Bird and MJ who both did.   Hate on brotha.   More importantly HE PLAYED ON A SUPER TEAM!!

I'm not sure he's being a hater as much as he's simply informed by personal experience or his era.  Look at his list.  Additionally, I think older guys define super teams totally different in that they're talking about players dictating the formation of teams rather than organizations, like in his day.  Free agency really is a newer concept and guys were bought and sold like cattle in the 60/70's, so it's simply the paradigm he's used to.  I don't know if it's a real biting criticism, simply a dated view by a guy in his 70's.

 

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

Old legend's Top 10 doesn't consist of a single player whose prime was in the 2000's. Also in the news, water: wet.

Agree with this.  It's simply about Doc's age, personal experience, and generational gap.  In some ways, I get it.  If the older guys don't remind folks once in awhile how good some of the players were of his era or generation, then they get forgotten.  It happens all the time because of recency bias, a modernization of the game, etc.

IMO, his "second team" destroys his first team dependent of rules (can we dunk?).  In most scenarios, that 2nd team is fucking nasty.

 

[d2o 1602]

3 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I'm not sure he's being a hater as much as he's simply informed by personal experience or his era.  Look at his list.  Additionally, I think older guys define super teams totally different in that they're talking about players dictating the formation of teams rather than organizations, like in his day.  Free agency really is a newer concept and guys were bought and sold like cattle in the 60/70's, so it's simply the paradigm he's used to.  I don't know if it's a real biting criticism, simply a dated view by a guy in his 70's.

 

Agree with this.  It's simply about Doc's age, personal experience, and generational gap.  In some ways, I get it.  If the older guys don't remind folks once in awhile how good some of the players were of his era or generation, then they get forgotten.  It happens all the time because of recency bias, a modernization of the game, etc.

IMO, his "second team" destroys his first team dependent of rules (can we dunk?).  In most scenarios, that 2nd team is fucking nasty.

 

That's my point though.   A "superteam" is a superteam regardless of how it was constructed and as I mentioned almost all of the guys he listed were on superteams as was he.

[shadow_operative 15932]

Magic, MJ, Larry, LeBron, Hakeem. that's my five. come and take it. 

[Kermit 3128]

1 hour ago, shadow_operative said:

Magic, MJ, Larry, LeBron, Hakeem. that's my five. come and take it. 

AIDS, Gambling and whores, Absentee parentism, normal hairlines, and Ramadan. I feel pretty confident with mine too.

[SilasCoade 2620]

If the Bulls were ever a "super team" it was only because Jordan was on the team. Pippen + Grant + whoever else does not win a title if Jordan is in the league on another team. Bird was on super teams b/c the Celtics front office was the best in that era. The whole discussion is silly b/c of the differences in training and rules but I think it's fair to say that every top 10 all time has to include Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, Magic, Bird. Then there's probably 15 guys that could be in the reasonable discussion for the other spots.

[immortal13 4059]

13 hours ago, d2o said:

Didn't think of Doc being a hater but here we are.    His first team is comprised of three guys that played together on  a "super team".    His 2nd team has 2 that did.  Then Bird and MJ who both did.   Hate on brotha.   More importantly HE PLAYED ON A SUPER TEAM!!

What superteam did Jordan ever play for?

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

4 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

Magic, MJ, Larry, LeBron, Hakeem. that's my five. come and take it. 

I love Hakeem. I don’t think so as all time starting center. And no way on bird. If I can’t use any of your guys I’m going to go with Curry, Kobe, Durant, Duncan and Shaq and we are gonna whip yo ass. 
but my 5 if I can use guys you used is Magic, MJ, Durant, Lebron and Hakeem if we are talking about playing today’s game. If we are talking about playing 2000-2010 I go with Shaq over Hakeem. And I say that as a kid who had season tickets to the tickets from 92-95 and fully appreciate how great Hakeem was. 

[SilasCoade 2620]

Medium hot take: Portland giving minutes to Carmelo (who is playing pretty well) has really hurt the development of Simons who could be a Jaylen Brown level guy. When they lose in the first round this year they need to either have a discussion with Melo or try and package Simons and Nurkic for some immediate contributor, preferably a stretch big.

[TommyGufano 6021]

5 hours ago, Llogg said:

If the Bulls were ever a "super team" it was only because Jordan was on the team. Pippen + Grant + whoever else does not win a title if Jordan is in the league on another team. Bird was on super teams b/c the Celtics front office was the best in that era. The whole discussion is silly b/c of the differences in training and rules but I think it's fair to say that every top 10 all time has to include Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, Magic, Bird. Then there's probably 15 guys that could be in the reasonable discussion for the other spots.

93-94 Bulls were pretty damn good. Phantom Hubert Davis call doesn't happen and who knows when their season ends.

Other than the KD Warriors do we have any examples of teams that were so overwhelmingly stacked that they did or conceivably could have won titles if you removed their best player and put him on another team?

edit: as for stuff pertaining to 20-21, MPJ is starting to cook. 22.5 pts/gm on 57/47/79 post-all star break. Anxious to see what he shows in the postseason

Edited April 29, 2021 by TommyGufano

[d2o 1602]

13 hours ago, Llogg said:

If the Bulls were ever a "super team" it was only because Jordan was on the team. Pippen + Grant + whoever else does not win a title if Jordan is in the league on another team. Bird was on super teams b/c the Celtics front office was the best in that era. The whole discussion is silly b/c of the differences in training and rules but I think it's fair to say that every top 10 all time has to include Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, Magic, Bird. Then there's probably 15 guys that could be in the reasonable discussion for the other spots.

Cmon man, we're not doing this are we?    MJ, Pip, Rodman were all HOFs.  MJ and Pip were 1st team all NBA.   Rodman led the league in rebounding and was first team all-defense.   Toni Kukoc was 6th man of the yr.  How is that different than any of the other superteams?

[Vic Mackey 46936]

...

[SilasCoade 2620]

41 minutes ago, d2o said:

Cmon man, we're not doing this are we?    MJ, Pip, Rodman were all HOFs.  MJ and Pip were 1st team all NBA.   Rodman led the league in rebounding and was first team all-defense.   Toni Kukoc was 6th man of the yr.  How is that different than any of the other superteams?

I'm defining super teams as more than one guy who could be a number one option on a championship contender. LBJ and Wade. Shaq/Kobe. Magic/Kareem. Curry/KD. Pippen was a great player but with him as the number one they were not competing for rings.

[immortal13 4059]

43 minutes ago, d2o said:

Cmon man, we're not doing this are we?    MJ, Pip, Rodman were all HOFs.  MJ and Pip were 1st team all NBA.   Rodman led the league in rebounding and was first team all-defense.   Toni Kukoc was 6th man of the yr.  How is that different than any of the other superteams?

Kukoc  lulz

[d2o 1602]

4 minutes ago, Llogg said:

I'm defining super teams as more than one guy who could be a number one option on a championship contender. LBJ and Wade. Shaq/Kobe. Magic/Kareem. Curry/KD. Pippen was a great player but with him as the number one they were not competing for rings.

That's crazy speculative.   Pip was MVP level just the yr before with no major additions after his team lost the best player in the league.   They were a bad call away from the ECF w/o MJ

[CBT 1281]

Putting Karl Malone on that list negates any and all basketball opinions going forward.

[d2o 1602]

4 minutes ago, CBT said:

Putting Karl Malone on that list negates any and all basketball opinions going forward.

Fuck Karl Malone.   Like he fucked that 13 yr old.

[Kermit 3128]

1 hour ago, d2o said:

Fuck Karl Malone.   Like he fucked that 13 yr old.

[gsoda3 3236]

12 hours ago, Llogg said:

Medium hot take: Portland giving minutes to Carmelo (who is playing pretty well) has really hurt the development of Simons who could be a Jaylen Brown level guy. When they lose in the first round this year they need to either have a discussion with Melo or try and package Simons and Nurkic for some immediate contributor, preferably a stretch big.

simons and nurkic for porzingis you say?  done.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18523]

3 hours ago, d2o said:

That's crazy speculative.   Pip was MVP level just the yr before with no major additions after his team lost the best player in the league.   They were a bad call away from the ECF w/o MJ

Yeah... he finished 3rd in MVP voting behind peak Hakeem and David Robinson that season, was the All-star game MVP and led a Jordan-less Bulls to a 55 win season.  Counterpoint: he refused to check into a playoff game against the Knicks that year because they called the last shot for Toni Kukoc.

I don't think Pippen will ever get his due because he played in MJ's shadow, but he was one of the best 5 or so players in the league in his prime. 3 first team all NBA selections, 2 second team and 2 third team, not to mention being arguably the best perimeter defender of his generation. With a better surrounding cast beyond Horace Grant, BJ Armstrong and Kukoc, he was probably good enough to be the #1 on a championship level team. He's probably one of the best 25ish players in NBA history.

[Mole 4320]

To quote Chuck Daly when talking about the Dream Team, “I know Michael’s the best player, but Pippen was the best player on that team.”

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

17 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I love Hakeem. I don’t think so as all time starting center. And no way on bird. If I can’t use any of your guys I’m going to go with Curry, Kobe, Durant, Duncan and Shaq and we are gonna whip yo ass. 
but my 5 if I can use guys you used is Magic, MJ, Durant, Lebron and Hakeem if we are talking about playing today’s game. If we are talking about playing 2000-2010 I go with Shaq over Hakeem. And I say that as a kid who had season tickets to the tickets from 92-95 and fully appreciate how great Hakeem was. 

depends, if they call 3 seconds or offensive fouls it's Hakeem, and its not close.