2020-2021 NBA Thread of Insanity

[ztejas 43266]

13 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Would be if the refs could either call it both ways or get out of the game. Blazers getting screwed a little bit.

Yeah it's been a little fouly. 

On another note - It's stupid how good Chris Paul still is.

[SilasCoade 2620]

Yeah Paul has been automatic with that 17-20 foot jumper.

[Machinator 32097]

Melo with the potential game-winning defensive play.

[ztejas 43266]

I swear if he misses one here...

[conVINCEd 21468]

Mavs back up to the 5 seed.

[immortal13 4059]

8 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I swear if he misses one here...

Can't believe he missed both

[washparkhorn 9935]

Love Paul's statement on the West - can't duck anybody. The West is a beast - always has been. 

[d2o 1602]

On 5/9/2021 at 3:51 PM, Patrick Bateman said:

One of the more interesting questions in the offseason.  What happens if the Clippers can't get past Phoenix?  Fucking Phoenix or worse even, Playoff P(retender) goes 0-37 from the 3 and they get taken out by Portland?

But where the fuck could the Wanderer go?  He's where he always wanted to be, he's just not good enough.

 

This would be the actual answer that has been staring many in the face for yrs and no one seems to want to see it.

[aggie08 21434]

13 hours ago, Machinator said:

Will not miss him.

 

Hallelujah! What a great day to be a basketball fan. No more bubbles, the play-in starts soon, the CDC lifting mask requirements may allow some home arenas to let more fans in by the end of the playoffs, this thread doesn't comprise of half of its posts bemoaning players for wearing "Say Her Name" on their jerseys from people who would otherwise never post here, LeBron is back, KD is back, Steph is back and the Warriors have returned to their upstart underdog role from the early 2010's, the quality and quantity of young and international talent is as good as it's ever been, and the only announcer in any sport to ever truly annoy me just got shit-canned. What a world.

[SilasCoade 2620]

Webber is the worst. Grant Hill on the other hand was great last night on the blazers suns game. Why isn't he the top guy for TNT? If they can somehow remove Richard Jefferson from live television entirely I won't have any commentators left to hate.

[aggie08 21434]

... I forgot that Zach Lowe's content is still hidden behind a paywall as ESPN tries to milk every dime out of its viewers to salvage a sinking ship. That shit's annoying.

[Machinator 32097]

If people are interested in Lowe's stuff I can post it here as requested.

[aggie08 21434]

5 minutes ago, Machinator said:

If people are interested in Lowe's stuff I can post it here as requested.

You'd obviously get no pushback from me!

[Mitch Cumsteen 18523]

30 minutes ago, Llogg said:

 If they can somehow remove Richard Jefferson from live television entirely I won't have any commentators left to hate.

[SilasCoade 2620]

Just now, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I don't hate him when he's paired with JVG. But, yeah, on his own he's hard to listen to.

[conVINCEd 21468]

Momma, there goes that man!

[d2o 1602]

11 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

love the guy. he's one of my childhood heroes. but he is terrible on TNT broadcast. 

He was MUCH better in the studio before TNT decided they had to have Shaq.

[Reynolds Woodcock 4669]

Is All NBA First Team pretty much set in stone with Jokic, Giannis, Kawai, Luka and Steph? I guess some might argue for LeBron on principle, but feels like missing 1/3 of the season is disqualifying. I think the only open point is whether enough people will vote for Embiid and Jokic on first team, since the NBA changed the rule to allow first team votes for both. They are clearly the top two MVP candidates. If that happens, I think Kawai would get the bump.

 

[TommyGufano 6021]

I'd say Jokic, Giannis and Steph are pretty much certainties. And then it's a bit difficult to determine what will happen with the positional flexibility that is being allowed. I'd predict the 5 you name, but my confidence in Luka being 1st team is ~70% and Kawhi lower than that. I think LeBron missed too much time for 1st team consideration

[Machinator 32097]

(Zach Lowe) Nikola Jokic or Joel Embiid? Rudy Gobert or Draymond Green? Lowe selects his 2021 NBA award winners

Spoiler

With just four days until the much-talked-about play-in tournament, it's NBA awards season! Here's my official ballot as the 2020-2021 regular season comes to a close.

MOST VALUABLE PLAYER
1. Nikola Jokic

2. Joel Embiid

3. Stephen Curry

4. Giannis Antetokounmpo

5. Luka Doncic

What looked at the halfway point to be one of the most rollicking MVP races in history turned into a coronation. There is really no case for anyone but Jokic. He leads most advanced statistics that measure per-minute production -- some by a lot -- and has played more minutes than any major candidate.

Combine those things, and Jokic is the clear winner. He is wrapping one of the greatest offensive seasons in history, and the greatest passing season ever for a big man. He bumped his scoring average by almost seven points, and is within range of 50/40/90 shooting.

He's not a great defender, but he's not the cement-footed oaf skeptics portray. The same instincts that make him an unprecedented point-center help Jokic compensate for his physical limitations on defense. He anticipates the patterns of offenses. He has great hands; Jokic gobbles steals and rebounds -- high-value plays that allow him to grab-and-go, and attack in semi-transition. He's probably around average on defense, and when you consider his offense, average is fine.

There has been consternation, voiced most notably by Nick Wright of Fox Sports, that a Jokic MVP will look silly in retrospect. (Wright specifically lobbied for Chris Paul.) Wright didn't mention this, but part of that skepticism may stem from the possibility of Denver losing in the first round. There is often voter's remorse when the MVP bows out early. It happened with Antetokounmpo.

But this is different. We know point guard Jamal Murray is out, and that Denver will be reincorporating other key players who have missed time. It is not a surprise when any team in the West loses without one of its best players.

As things stand now, Denver is slated to draw the Portland Trail Blazers or Dallas Mavericks in the first round. Those are winnable series. Part of Jokic's MVP case is how he has kept the Nuggets afloat -- with huge help from the ascending Michael Porter Jr. -- in the absence of Murray, Will Barton, and Monte Morris. The Nuggets are 11-4 since Murray went down.

Zooming out, I'm not sure why there is any fretting about Jokic's future place in history -- or why such fretting, even were it justified, should infect this MVP race.

Jokic is the greatest passing big man ever. Digest that sentence. With good health, he will probably go down as, what, one of the half-dozen or so best passers in history? In 15 years we might (will?) mention Jokic's name alongside Magic Johnson, Jason Kidd, LeBron James, Luka Doncic, Larry Bird, and John Stockton.

His career player efficiency rating is 26.0. That would rank seventh all time. It's higher in the playoffs. Over 33 postseason games, Jokic has averaged 24.7 points, 11.2 rebounds, and 6.9 assists on 51.3/41.6/84 shooting. He has made as many conference finals -- one -- as Paul. He is Paul's equal as a crunch-time scorer and distributor -- the true heir to Dirk Nowitzki as the rare big who can run late-game offense without much help.

Some of it is that Jokic feels new. Denver's run in the 2019 playoffs was underwhelming even if Jokic was outstanding: a wobbly seven-game win over a mediocre San Antonio Spurs team, and then that Game 7 loss at home to Portland without Jusuf Nurkic.

For whatever reason, Denver's rallies from 3-1 down last season -- against the Utah Jazz in the first round, and then famously against the LA Clippers -- became more about the losers collapsing than the Nuggets picking those teams apart until they were out of answers.

That's what Jokic does to even great defenses. Whatever you try, he has a counter. It doesn't have to be complicated. If you lack a stout post defender, you're done. Jokic is the league's best high-volume post scorer. The Nuggets average 1.16 points when Jokic shoots from the post or passes to a teammate who fires -- 12th among 88 guys with at least 50 post touches, per Second Spectrum. Jokic has almost 700 post touches -- No. 2 overall. None of the 10 players above him have more than 160.

The damage gets worse when you include entire possessions featuring a Jokic post touch -- capturing hockey assists and swing-swing-swing sequences that begin when panicked opponents double Jokic even though they know the pain that is coming. Denver has poured in 1.3 points per possession on such trips -- fourth among those 88 players. The three guys above him have combined for about one-third of Jokic's total post touches.

The same "you can't win" helplessness applies on the pick-and-roll, though it remains to be seen how much that holds up in the playoffs without Murray. You can't switch, because Jokic will make mincemeat out of some poor guard. You can get away with dropping back, but only so far -- lest Jokic rain 3s. Close out too hard, and he'll pump and drive by you -- into a 4-on-3, where there are few better. Trapping Murray gifts Jokic that same 4-on-3.

There just aren't answers beyond hoping for cold shooting from Jokic -- and, more pointedly, Denver's supporting cast -- and that is the true mark of superstardom.

If Jokic plays the next seven or eight seasons at this level -- not a given for obvious reasons -- he's absolutely going to be on track to be an all-time great. That version of Jokic wouldn't look out of place as MVP.

Six players -- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Bird, Wilt Chamberlain, and Bill Russell -- have combined to win 27 of 65 MVPs. Breaking into that pantheon is a low-odds bet for anyone. A few players in that stratosphere -- Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan, Kevin Durant, Hakeem Olajuwon, Nowitzki, Curry -- have "only" one or two MVPs. Will Jokic match their career achievements? That's a high bar.

But he for sure has a good chance to settle in as a historical MVP one tier below that, and perhaps better.

You could order the next three finishers any way you like, but they should be 2-4 somehow. Embiid has the best numbers, but he's played about 600 fewer minutes than Curry and 400 fewer than Antetokounmpo. If we were debating the No. 1 spot, the minutes might tilt my ballot away from Embiid.

But factor in Embiid's defense and Philly's perch atop the East, and I'm comfortable slotting him No. 2. He is neck-and-neck with Jokic as the season's defining figure and most dominant player -- the one we will remember in 10 years when we think of this odd pandemic season. I had him as MVP by the teensiest margin before he hurt his knee. I don't think there was a moment this season when Curry or Antetokounmpo rose to my No. 1 spot, or emerged as consensus leader. Curry and Antetokounmpo is a coin flip. Advanced numbers lean slightly toward Curry. He propped up a team that was helpless without him.

The fifth spot could go to Doncic, Paul, Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler, Damian Lillard, or Julius Randle. Butler and Leonard have the best statistical dossiers, and probably in that order. There is almost no statistical case for either Paul or Randle -- both will probably make All-NBA teams -- and I'm not sure Paul's unquantifiable leadership is enough to overcome that.

Butler, Doncic, and Lillard each lifted teams decimated by injury or virus-related protocols -- or both. The advantage Doncic and Lillard hold in minutes outweighs Butler's small edge in numbers -- at least here.

Doncic and Lillard will be pitted against each other for this ballot spot and in the race for first-team All-NBA. There's no right answer. It's a matter of taste. Their teams are tied in the standings. I'll take Doncic's size and playmaking by the thinnest of hairs over Lillard's shooting and culture-setting.

ROOKIE OF THE YEAR
1. LaMelo Ball

2. Anthony Edwards

3. Tyrese Haliburton

I've heard from partisans of both Ball and Edwards suggesting the race is a blowout. Nope.

Advanced numbers suggest a blowout -- for Ball. Edwards is 12th among 34 rotation rookies in PER, 26th in value over replacement player, and 29th in win shares. Ball is first, second, and ninth, respectively.

Those numbers penalize Edwards for taking tons of shots on a losing team, and hitting them at a poor rate (41% overall, 32.7% on 3s, 48% on 2s) -- and playing the bad defense we expect from rookies. They say Edwards' impressive traditional numbers are empty calories. There is a sound argument that Haliburton should finish No. 2.

But what would happen to basically any rookie working as a pseudo-No. 1 option for the Minnesota freaking Timberwolves without both Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell? That was Edwards' lot early -- when he missed and missed and missed, and his advanced numbers sunk into the abyss.

But alongside real talent, Edwards has exceeded expectations. In 35 games since March 1, he's averaging 23 points on 45% shooting: a semi-respectable (considering how many pull-ups he takes) 34% on 3s, and 53.3% on 2s. The Wolves are 15-19 in that stretch, and 9-7 in their past 16 games. They are a real team, and Edwards is part of that. You can tell he has earned the respect of opponents, because they often assign their best perimeter defenders to him.

Critics might ask if we should weigh the second half of Edwards' season more than the first. Development is not linear. Those first 30 games may be more representative of Edwards in Year 2 than the last 30.

I doubt it. And given the context -- the return of Towns and Russell, a coaching change -- it's fair to weigh these recent games more.

Edwards leads all rookies in minutes, with about 800 more than Ball. He may unseat Ball, the presumptive favorite all season, and that would not be some sort of travesty.

But Ball has made positive contributions to a team with real stakes since day one. He has been the better shooter, playmaker, and rebounder. His statistical edge in everything but raw points and minutes is overwhelming. Given some baseline threshold of availability, I don't prioritize minutes quite as much in the "of year" awards as in MVP.

Ball wins here, but it's close. Haliburton is an easy choice at No. 3.

DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR
1. Rudy Gobert

2. Draymond Green

3. Ben Simmons

Guards make big guys look silly sometimes, and those lowlights spread across social media -- defining the victim for those who don't watch him regularly.

Some matchups are tougher for the giants of the game, like Gobert, Embiid, Clint Capela, and Myles Turner -- the last three all worthy candidates. (Jakob Poeltl also deserves a look.) It's not a completely false narrative. Against the Boston Celtics in the 2018 playoffs, the Sixers shifted Embiid onto Marcus Morris -- shielding him from Al Horford's pick-and-pop game. Last month against the Mavericks, Utah had Gobert guard Dorian Finney-Smith instead of one of Doncic's pick-and-pop partners.

But what is often missed in such matchup machinations is that the giant can still have an impact -- sloughing from the corner, waiting to pounce and reclaim his territory around the rim. Coaches can overthink those matchups. Gobert and Embiid are fine against most pick-and-pop centers. Most are good shooters, not great ones. You can live with the opponent abandoning its offense to let those guys hoist semi-contested 3s.

Gobert has grown more comfortable venturing to the arc to deter pull-up 3s from Lillard and Curry types. They get him sometimes. Some midrange artists, including Paul, have good nights shooting long 2s. But Gobert contests those shots pretty well, and the Jazz are happy with that math.

Gobert has been among the very best defenders on isolations -- most of which come against perimeter players after switches. Opposing scorers have averaged only 0.794 points when they shoot out of isolations against Gobert or pass to a teammate who fires -- 13th lowest among more than 200 defenders who have faced at least 75 isos, per Second Spectrum.

Second on that list: Green. If Green has slipped from his prime, it's not by much. He remains the roaring, snarling soul of Golden State's fifth-ranked defense. Green is the smartest help defender in the league -- thinking two steps ahead, at the rim and in the passing lane before you know it, with steel-trap hands that can wrench the ball from almost anyone.

Opponents have hit just 47.9% at the basket with Green nearby, the lowest figure among all rotation defenders, per NBA.com. All these years later, Green still jolts Golden State to life as a small-ball center. He can still guard all five positions.

Simmons can too. His willingness to defend point guards means he cannot get schemed out of the central action, as happens to some of the nastiest wing defenders. (Those Leonard types can still be massively effective as helpers, and inevitably find the ball at points.) Same goes for Jrue Holiday, Antetokounmpo, OG Anunoby, and Bam Adebayo, who will appear on lots of All-Defense ballots.

Miami has built its defense around Adebayo's switching and trapping. Antetokounmpo has taken a slight step back from his airtight all-around form last season -- an inevitability as the Bucks experiment with unfamiliar schemes. Simmons inches ahead of them here.

But Simmons is not as intimidating as Green around the basket -- not the same communicator and rover.

Are Green and Simmons better 16-game than 82-game defenders, to use Green's parlance, than Gobert? Probably, though the degree to which Gobert has been "played off the court" in the postseason is overstated.

But this is an 82-game award, and Gobert is more than just a defender. He is a one-man defensive architecture. Even amid the ongoing 3-point deluge, the most valuable real estate is the area around the basket. Gobert obliterates it, sometimes in ways you barely notice.

There are dozens of little sequences like this in every game -- sequences notable for what doesn't happen, not what does:

https://media.video-cdn.espn.com/gifs/mp4/NBA_Jazz_v_Bulls_3_22_2021_2gif.mp4

https://media.video-cdn.espn.com/gifs/mp4/NBA_Jazz_vs_Suns___4_30_2021_2gif.mp4

Gobert takes up so much space. Ball handlers pull back on floaters, slip passes, lobs, everything -- and slink away as the shot clock dwindles. There are no kickouts to 3-point shooters because none are open; Utah's perimeter defenders stay home, knowing Gobert can cover the entire paint solo.

The playoffs are a small sample. One bad matchup -- hell, one problematic opposing lineup -- can render Gobert maybe 20% less effective. The same might be true, by the way, of Embiid, Turner, and Capela. Embiid and Gobert are the apex of the drop-back center. Embiid at full throttle is at least Gobert's equal on defense. Gobert has been more consistent over 500 more minutes. Turner is on their level as a shot-blocker, but not as a rebounder or post defender; he has played only 47 games. Capela is somewhere in between.

Most of the other main candidates are immune to such matchup vulnerabilities.

But the regular season is a mega-sample. Bit by bit, possession by possession, Gobert tilts the math more toward his team over that mega-sample than any rival. Utah allows 101.6 points per 100 possessions with Gobert on the floor and almost 113 when he rests. The first number would lead all teams by a mile. The second would rank around 21st. Whether you care or not, the advanced stats have Gobert by a mile. Individually, those stats are of questionable value. If they all scream the same thing, you should at least include them as one factor.

COACH OF THE YEAR
1. Monty Williams

2. Tom Thibodeau

3. Quin Snyder

This is perhaps the murkiest award, because it's unclear precisely what to reward. Should Erik Spoelstra and Frank Vogel fall away just because their teams did not outperform expectations -- as the Suns, Knicks, and Jazz did?

The Miami Heat are coalescing at exactly the right moment -- again. How does Spoelstra do this every season? There is nobody better at coaching to a season.

Vogel kept the Lakers defending without Anthony Davis and James. The Lakers' front office stocked the roster with rugged defenders, but everyone in the organization credits Vogel for instilling a defense-first approach.

Even accounting for the newness halo buoying Thibodeau and Williams, it is impossible to ignore what both have done revitalizing moribund franchises. Both are deserving.

Optics favor Thibodeau. The Knicks -- bruising, smashmouth -- look like a Thibodeau team. The Suns -- patient, low risk, maximizing every possession -- look like a Chris Paul team. What does Williams stand for as a coach? And shouldn't GM James Jones get the credit for swinging the Paul deal and acquiring the right support players?

Williams is not some placeholder -- some passive witness to Paul's on-court vision. He is at least the co-architect of that vision. He has pressed the right rotational buttons. It has sometimes seemed as if Williams were overtinkering: Frank Kaminsky over Dario Saric as backup center, Kaminsky and Torrey Craig briefly usurpring Jae Crowder's starting spot, staggering and then not staggering Paul and Devin Booker.

But all along, Williams had a gentle hand on the rudder, guiding the Suns to where they need to go in the big picture. And like Thibodeau, he sets the tone for what it takes to play in Phoenix: toughness, defense, selflessness.

So many others have a claim: Snyder for this culmination of years of foundation laying; Nate McMillan for helping rescue the Hawks; Doc Rivers for coaxing out the best version of Embiid and the Sixers; Mike Malone for imbuing the Nuggets with a resiliency that served them well amid injuries; Steve Nash for an ultra-creative juggling act in his debut for the Nets; Taylor Jenkins for plotting a blueprint in Memphis; James Borrego for patching the Hornets together with small-ball lineups, zone defense, and a pass-happy offense; Ty Lue for nudging the Clippers where they needed nudging; and many others.

SIXTH MAN OF THE YEAR
1. Joe Ingles

2. Jordan Clarkson

3. Tim Hardaway Jr.

Clarkson has been the front-runner, and punctuated his candidacy with five straight 20-point games -- including a 41-point explosion Monday against the Warriors. But I'm not sure what he has over Ingles beyond raw points.

Analysis in the advanced stats era can sometimes be too dismissive of raw points. Points matter! The goal is to score more than the opponent! Clarkson is averaging 18 per game, and he's been the best volume bench scorer all season.

The Jazz have long sought a gunner type to freelance outside of Snyder's read-and-react system -- someone to inject unpredictability, and carry them for entire quarters. Clarkson is it. He has improved his passing. He makes quicker, smarter decisions to keep the Jazz blender moving.

Ingles is averaging 12.2 points -- six fewer than Clarkson, and fewer than several other candidates: the Mavs' one-two punch of Hardaway Jr. and Jalen Brunson, Derrick Rose, Miles Bridges, Haliburton, Chris Boucher, Doug McDermott, Kyle Kuzma, Lauri Markkanen, and others.

Thaddeus Young has had a bigger impact on winning than Markkanen for the Chicago Bulls, but he faded down the stretch. The Suns' Dario Saric and the Lakers' Montrezl Harrell faded to the fringes of their teams' rotations. Kuzma is the Lakers' superior candidate, and has been for weeks. T.J. McConnell -- part point guard, part bank robber -- invigorates the Indiana Pacers the second he enters the game.

Ingles is a much better defender and passer than Clarkson. He is second on Utah in assists per 36 minutes. He may be the team's best pick-and-roll orchestrator. He lives on another planet as a shooter: 49.4% overall, 45.6% on 3s, 59% on 2s -- compared to Clarkson's 42/34/52 line. Clarkson takes more difficult shots -- sometimes out of necessity, sometimes by choice.

Ingles is enjoying one of the most efficient shooting seasons ever, and it's not because he's choosy; he's jacking almost eight 3s per 36 minutes, and daring off-the-bounce shots going left or right. The advanced numbers are a blowout.

It does not matter to me that Ingles and Hardaway have started 57 games between them. For some voters, that is a betrayal of the essence of the sixth man -- the sparkplug who always comes off the bench. I respect that approach. It's just not mine.

For me, part of the value in being sixth man is the ability to start when called upon. Lamar Odom deservedly won in 2010-11 after starting 35 of 82 games.

I almost pivoted to Rose at No. 3. I'm not sure any reserve has had a bigger impact than Rose since the Knicks acquired him. New York has outscored opponents by almost 12 points per 100 possessions with Rose on the floor. He has unlocked two of the best lineups in the league: the Knicks' starters with Rose in place of Elfrid Payton, and bench mobs featuring the quartet of Rose, Immanuel Quickley, Obi Toppin, and Taj Gibson.

But Rose has played in only 49 games, and 34 with the Knicks. Hardaway has been an ironman -- he's missed two games -- for a Mavericks team that was rarely close to whole. Hardaway has logged almost 700 more minutes than Rose.

He's averaging 16.8 points on 45% shooting -- including 39.4% on 3s. Like Clarkson, he's surging to the end.

Hardaway is a minus defender, but so is Clarkson. Brunson is sturdier, more well-rounded, with even better shooting numbers than Hardaway. He has delightful pick-and-roll chemistry with Doncic. Each has helped the Mavs to positive scoring margins with Doncic on the bench. Both have arguments to win.

Hardaway's recent scoring spree gets him the No. 3 spot here.

MOST IMPROVED PLAYER
1. Julius Randle

2. Michael Porter Jr.

3. Jerami Grant

Some prefer the leap from star to MVP candidate; they might reward Embiid or Jokic. Embiid's emergence as an elite midrange shooter is perhaps the most consequential skill improvement in terms of altering the championship landscape.

Some gravitate to players who did almost nothing prior in the NBA. I've always had a hard time with that group -- the Terance Mann/Ty Jerome/Luguentz Dort/Dean Wade/Kevin Porter Jr./Talen Horton-Tucker/Jaylen Nowell/Hamidou Diallo genre. They profile more like rookies.

In between, there are older veterans who suddenly hone one key skill, and youngish vets who improve overall at about an expected rate. Jaylen Brown, Tobias Harris, Terry Rozier, Zach LaVine, and Donovan Mitchell fall into that latter group. Two of last year's leading candidates -- De'Aaron Fox and Adebayo -- deserve consideration again. Adebayo's midranger changed the Heat's trajectory, just as Embiid's did for the Sixers.

What to do with Christian Wood, whose near-All-Star-level play in Houston (over just 41 games) mirrored what he did last season once the Pistons fed him minutes?

Some voters disqualify second-year players because improvement is assumed, but third-year players often win. Weird!

Randle averaged 21 points and nine rebounds two seasons ago with the New Orleans Pelicans. He was good, but you sensed he had more. He could defend when he cared to. He had good vision, but often chased points -- barrelling into crowds instead of making easy kickouts.

Randle found balance in New York. He makes the right decision on almost every play. He's dishing six dimes per game, double his career rate, and serving as the hub of an offense that has crept above league average over the last six-plus weeks.

Randle shooting 42% on heaps of 3s came out of absolutely nowhere, and made him almost matchup-proof. He roasts centers who press him at the arc, and bowls over small-ball power forwards in the post.

He leads the NBA in combined isolations and post-ups, and has been efficient at both, per Second Spectrum -- slotting teammates into appropriate secondary roles, and enabling a low-risk, slow-down style. To top it off, he has been an above-average defender chasing stretch power forwards -- once a weak spot.

Some voters may omit Porter because he is effectively a second-year player whose huge jump in raw stats -- from nine to 19 points! -- is partly the product of playing time.

But Porter earned that time by earning Malone's trust on defense. About 25 games into the season, you could see it coming together. Porter made more rotations on time. He snared steals and deflections. He morphed into a rim protector who unnerved opposing scorers. He's getting it. He's not great, or maybe even good, but he's no longer a liability.

It's one thing to score efficiently in limited minutes against backups -- as Porter did last season. It is quite another to score even more efficiently -- 45% on 3s, 63% on 2s -- in huge minutes against starters. Porter is a flat-out star on offense.

The last spot came down to a pile of players, most of whom I mentioned on the Lowe Post podcast three weeks ago. The last cuts (in addition to some of the above names) were Darius Garland, Mikal Bridges, Anunoby, Brunson, Boucher, RJ Barrett, Kyle Anderson, and a few others.

Grant's efficiency quaked under the burden he sought in leaving Denver for Detroit. It's tempting to dismiss his jump in scoring; someone has to score for bad teams, right?

But if you watched, you know Grant wasn't putting up empty numbers as a default No. 1 option. He was doing things no one outside the Grant family thought he could do. He maintained about league average from deep on a diet of pull-up 3s that was out of bounds for him before. He looked the part.

He ends at 42% shooting and a paltry 2.8 assists -- not even close to enough for a primary option. Grant can't play that role for a good team, but that he survived playing it for a bad one is impressive.

 

[SilasCoade 2620]

16 minutes ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

Is All NBA First Team pretty much set in stone with Jokic, Giannis, Kawai, Luka and Steph? I guess some might argue for LeBron on principle, but feels like missing 1/3 of the season is disqualifying. I think the only open point is whether enough people will vote for Embiid and Jokic on first team, since the NBA changed the rule to allow first team votes for both. They are clearly the top two MVP candidates. If that happens, I think Kawai would get the bump.

 

I end up watching a lot of Portland games because of time zone so I admit to some possible familiarity bias. That said Dame has been fucking phenomenal this year and definitely deserves first team consideration. I'd put him in over Kawhi for sure.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Llogg

[Mitch Cumsteen 18523]

I just watched 7 1/2 minutes of Michael Adams highlights against Boston. The score was 148-140. Adams had 31 and 17 that night. In addition to his funky one arm push shot and shooting free throws from that weird angle, I forgot that he also finished third in assists that year to Stockton and Magic. What a bunch of bullshit. 

 

[aggie08 21434]

As far as weird YouTube rabbit holes go, Michael Adams is definitely up there.

[ztejas 43266]

So 1st team all NBA is positionless now?

The 5 best players this season have been some combo of:

Jokic, Embiid, Steph without a fucking doubt - those 3 are absolute locks

Luka, Kawhi, Dame, Giannis to fill the next 2

 

If LeBron didn't play enough at least. And not sure he was really even better than any of those guys when he did. 

What's nuts is Brooklyn has 3 guys that have put up 1st team numbers when they've played - just none of them have played enough. KD and Kyrie's lines on the season especially are obscene. I guess LAL has 2 of those guys too. 

[gsoda3 3236]

Luka, Kawhi, Dame, Giannis to fill the next 2

Dame takes the fourth spot. Fifth is a tossup but probably goes to Luka.

[TommyGufano 6021]

2 hours ago, ztejas said:

So 1st team all NBA is positionless now?

The 5 best players this season have been some combo of:

Jokic, Embiid, Steph without a fucking doubt - those 3 are absolute locks

Luka, Kawhi, Dame, Giannis to fill the next 2

 

If LeBron didn't play enough at least. And not sure he was really even better than any of those guys when he did. 

What's nuts is Brooklyn has 3 guys that have put up 1st team numbers when they've played - just none of them have played enough. KD and Kyrie's lines on the season especially are obscene. I guess LAL has 2 of those guys too. 

No. But players have been given multi-position eligibility *very* generously. eg Embiid is C/F

[washparkhorn 9935]

Clippers tank to Houston, moving Denver up to 3 (Denver owns the tiebreaker against the Clips).

That forces Denver to tank on Sunday to Portland to keep LAL in the Play-In tourney or probably face the Lakers in the 3/6 matchup. 

Clips tanking ensures the Clips would not play LAL until the WCF (if both survive). 

[ztejas 43266]

13 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Clippers tank to Houston, moving Denver up to 3 (Denver owns the tiebreaker against the Clips).

That forces Denver to tank on Sunday to Portland to keep LAL in the Play-In tourney or probably face the Lakers in the 3/6 matchup. 

Clips tanking ensures the Clips would not play LAL until the WCF (if both survive). 

The Lakers have 2 games left. Why don't we start there.

[ztejas 43266]

But if Denver has the smarts they probably rest everyone against POR meaning the Lakers are in the play in no matter what. I guess the Clips could take their last game and grab the 3 seed instead but forcing LA into a play-in might be more beneficial than the 3 vs the 4 seed which is largely meaningless outside matchups. 

[billfromlaketravis 11361]

I’m rooting for the Wiz to take a big ole s*** on the Nets in the playoffs. I wish the first round was still best of 5. 

[ztejas 43266]

49 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I’m rooting for the Wiz to take a big ole s*** on the Nets in the playoffs. I wish the first round was still best of 5. 

Nets Big3 are all probably healthy at this point. At least they're all playing tomorrow. 

Nets will either sweep them or drop some weird game. This shitass Wiz team isn't beating Kevin Durant in the first round. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by ztejas

[billfromlaketravis 11361]

8 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Nets Big3 are all probably healthy at this point. At least they're all playing tomorrow. 

Nets will either sweep them or drop some wierd game. This shitass Wiz team isn't beating Kevin Durant in the first round. 

I love Kevin, but there are enough dislikable players on the Nets to hate them. Griffin, Harden, Flat Earther Kylie to name a few. 
 

That said, I acknowledge it’s wishful thinking. 

[ztejas 43266]

12 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I love Kevin, but there are enough dislikable players on the Nets to hate them. Griffin, Harden, Flat Earther Kylie to name a few. 
 

That said, I acknowledge it’s wishful thinking. 

I don't care who you're a fan of I'm telling you that a healthy Durant sans Kyrie and Harden would beat that Wiz team in 5 games. 

If you love Kevin I might have good news because I don't think you understand how good he is right now. If he's healthy whoever their 1st round opponent is is done and is likely done quickly. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by ztejas

[SilasCoade 2620]

8 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I’m rooting for the Wiz to take a big ole s*** on the Nets in the playoffs. I wish the first round was still best of 5. 

[Machinator 32097]

 

[Machinator 32097]

 

[Machinator 32097]

 

[Sbbruin 21734]

What an insane class.  Kobe, TD, and Garnett.  I would rank them the way I listed them.  I know a lot of Texans would rank Duncan over Kobe.  I think Kobe was a top 5 all time player.  Watch his highlight reel.  He was sooooo close to MJ.  Not MJ, but so close.

[Sbbruin 21734]

Kobe made the All-Star starting roster in just his second season when he was 18 years old.  So gnarly.

[conVINCEd 21468]

4 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

What an insane class.  Kobe, TD, and Garnett.  I would rank them the way I listed them.  I know a lot of Texans would rank Duncan over Kobe.  I think Kobe was a top 5 all time player.  Watch his highlight reel.  He was sooooo close to MJ.  Not MJ, but so close.

I could make an argument that he’s not a top 5 Laker.  I wouldn’t believe it, but I could do it with a straight face.  Kareem, Magic, Wilt, Shaq, Jerry West, Lebron.

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

23 minutes ago, Machinator said:

 

[LTtxfan 48975]

1 minute ago, conVINCEd said:

I could make an argument that he’s not a top 5 Laker.  I wouldn’t believe it, but I could do it with a straight face.  Kareem, Magic, Wilt, Shaq, Jerry West, Lebron.

Just don't think LeBron should be included in this list -- not enough years as a Laker

[conVINCEd 21468]

Just now, LTtxfan said:

Just don't think LeBron should be included in this list -- not enough years as a Laker

If you are a Laker fan that absolutely matters.  As a neutral observer, it matters less to me.  Shaq and Wilt weren’t there for long in the grand scheme of things either.  Most beloved Laker is a different thing to me, and Kobe is 3rd at worst on that list.

[TommyGufano 6021]

15 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Kobe made the All-Star starting roster in just his second season when he was 18 years old.  So gnarly.

... on fan votes

[Underdog 28455]

25 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Go on...

[Sbbruin 21734]

25 minutes ago, TommyGufano said:

... on fan votes

So I know: are you suggesting Kobe wasn’t an all-time great?  

[ztejas 43266]

52 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

What an insane class.  Kobe, TD, and Garnett.  I would rank them the way I listed them.  I know a lot of Texans would rank Duncan over Kobe.  I think Kobe was a top 5 all time player.  Watch his highlight reel.  He was sooooo close to MJ.  Not MJ, but so close.

Yeah because you're so fucking unbiased. 

Kobe was nowhere near MJ. I feel like I'm a parent telling my kid that Santa isn't real. 

And I was getting off to some Kobe highlights last night. He was amazing. But MJ belongs to a completely different tier.

[TommyGufano 6021]

16 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

So I know: are you suggesting Kobe wasn’t an all-time great?  

Not at all. I'm saying his 2nd year pre-all-star splits were 18/3.3/2.4 -- he got that nod on popularity not his production

[washparkhorn 9935]

Lakers (+ 3 refs) get the win against Pacers. 

LAL + 3/4 spots in the West come down to 3 games all starting at the same time tomorrow: 

• LAL (+3 refs) against the NOP
• DEN v. POR
• LAC attempting to out-tank OKC to keep the 4 spot

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by washparkhorn
Lakers television is god awful.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

4 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

What an insane class.  Kobe, TD, and Garnett.  I would rank them the way I listed them.  I know a lot of Texans would rank Duncan over Kobe.  I think Kobe was a top 5 all time player.  Watch his highlight reel.  He was sooooo close to MJ.  Not MJ, but so close.

Kobe was a great, great player.  Not as good as TD by almost any measure (not including TD was a far better leader and teammate) and nowhere near Jordan.  I don't get the fascination with being a close imitation of another player.  Let Kobe be appreciated on his talents and accomplishments, they were considerable.  Fantastic player especially when he was in the right mindset.

4 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

I could make an argument that he’s not a top 5 Laker.  I wouldn’t believe it, but I could do it with a straight face.  Kareem, Magic, Wilt, Shaq, Jerry West, Lebron.

Baylor who was probably better player, just in a difficult situation of being there when the Celtics had their run.

 

4 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Just don't think LeBron should be included in this list -- not enough years as a Laker

Agreed.  Certainly not over Kobe, who accomplished everything as a Laker.  If we're just going to consider players who wore the purple and gold then Karl Malone would be a choice, as he was a better player, but simply played at the end of his career.

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Patrick Bateman