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Things not going well at West Point

Parliament

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Parliament

Parliament 14260

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The US Military Academy at West Point is dealing with the fallout from a major cheating incident involving 73 cadets, the largest cheating episode at the elite school since 1976.

Seventy-two of the cadets accused of breaking the academy's famed honor code are first-year cadets, referred to as the "plebe year," according to the academy. One student is a sophomore. All of them are accused of cheating on a calculus exam in May, when West Point had shifted to virtual classes due to the coronavirus pandemic.

[/l]

 

What's the punishment for that? Firing squad?

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/21/politics/west-point-cheating-scandal-2020/index.html

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1 hour ago, Parliament said:

 

The US Military Academy at West Point is dealing with the fallout from a major cheating incident involving 73 cadets, the largest cheating episode at the elite school since 1976.

Seventy-two of the cadets accused of breaking the academy's famed honor code are first-year cadets, referred to as the "plebe year," according to the academy. One student is a sophomore. All of them are accused of cheating on a calculus exam in May, when West Point had shifted to virtual classes due to the coronavirus pandemic.

[/l]

 

What's the punishment for that? Firing squad?

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/21/politics/west-point-cheating-scandal-2020/index.html

 

Typically they must go in front of a board comprised of faculty and peers and the punishment can range from walking hours to expulsion.  Many times they are forced to miss their summer assignments, and must do an extra semester of school work to make up for what they cheated on. It sucks because everyone of your buddies knows what happened to you and you’re not graduating with your peers

 

Edited by slorch
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Liquor and Poker

Liquor and Poker 3659

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Most of them will have to go to "rehab."  WTF is "rehab" for cheating?  Is that Army-speak for pushups?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/12/21/west-point-catches-70-cadets-worst-cheating-scandal-50-years/5856130002/

"Fifty-eight cadets admitted cheating on the exam, which was administered remotely because of the COVID-19 pandemic. Most of them have been enrolled in a rehabilitation program and will be on probation for the remainder of their time at the academy. Others resigned, and some face hearings that could result in their expulsion."

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BearSchlong

BearSchlong 8098

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This is a well-publicized case, but I'd bet money that every single college had the same thing happen during covid.  Professors were mailing in their efforts to maintain course integrity so many students did the same thing with their personal integrity.

This past spring my daughter was in an advanced econ course and during an exam she noticed the group text (with several hundred members!!!!) blowing up with people sharing answers.  We were sharing my home office at the time so I saw it too.  She started taking screenshots - and she couldn't have been the only one - and after the exam she emailed them to the professor who then launched an investigation.

A few weeks later the professor contacted all the students with the following options.

1) Admit you cheated, take an F in the class, and re-take it a different semester.

2) Deny cheating, and if evidence shows to the contrary you will be failed, reported to the school for further action, and will NOT have the opportunity to retake the class (it's a prerequisite for many majors, you have to pass the class to get to Jr and Sr level classes.) This prevented quite a few people from completing their chosen degree path.

3) The exam grade will be counted (with a helluva curve once calculated) for students who reported the cheating and/or were not found to have participated in the group texts.

She almost hesitated to get involved but I told her fuck that, I write the checks and if you don't report it I will.

Unlike Slorch Jr. my son got waitlisted at WP and his backup was the TASSP and A&M for his Army commission.  He served on the honor board and apparently Aggies do cheat as well.

Not to disparage the cadets who really do earn their way into WP or our other military academies, but the kid that got in ahead of my son washed out in a month - his parents had cut a pretty large check to (redacted GOP fuckface Congressman).  I'm pretty sure my ex wife just gave him a handy.

I'll betcha there are quite a few future politicians in that pool of cheaters.

Edited by BearSchlong
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Slorch Jr had a classmate and friend, with whose parents we are friends as well, who got caught cheating on a paper, IIRC; during their Cow( Junior ) year.  For those who don't know, once you attend class for one day your Junior year at the academies, you are on the hook to Uncle Sam financially, should you not complete your degree due to your own actions.  Cheating certainly qualifies there, so this young man faced not only expulsion from WP, but then also enlisting in the Army to pay off his debt, as neither he nor his family had the means to solve for that.  He was very fortunate to only have his summer training denied and he had to retake the whole semester.  Keep in mind, it is a 4 year program for everyone.  If you're a December grad, you either got injured during training, had some extreme personal issue( family death for example,) or you got sanctioned for something.  People know...

With the enormity of penalties/ sanctions that are far beyond what the average college student might face, I did not and still do not comprehend the willingness to cheat there. These students were all Freshmen except for one Sophomore.  If they stay, their summertime training will be likely cancelled/ delayed. These are specialized training such as Jump School or Air Assault course and build upon each successive summer towards their branch selection( their future job in the Army) their Senior year.  The Sophomore will face revocation of any possible( their version of internships) which can have a big impact on actual career job opportunities in the civilian world after the Army.

Bear Schlong, why the hell did I think your son went to VaTech?  Somebody's kid on here did...

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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26446

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On 12/23/2020 at 11:21 AM, Lat22 said:

It's happening at every single "institute of higher learning" that has gone virtual.  

No doubt. Part of the problem is that the people who make it to the top in teaching are not necessarily veteran cheaters nor are they creative. It's like having a head of store security who doesn't think that people shoplift. These professors design testing systems that a bored chimp will figure out how to cheat on in 3 seconds, but a former dean's-list academic will not.

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Beau Vine

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On 12/23/2020 at 11:35 AM, BearSchlong said:

This is a well-publicized case, but I'd bet money that every single college had the same thing happen during covid.  Professors were mailing in their efforts to maintain course integrity so many students did the same thing with their personal integrity.

This past spring my daughter was in an advanced econ course and during an exam she noticed the group text (with several hundred members!!!!) blowing up with people sharing answers. 

Gonna disagree with the bolded -- many of us simply didn't know how to maintain course integrity and were learning entirely new platforms on the fly.  At least by the time fall rolled around, I had learned how to write algorithmic quizzes in Canvas.  

Also, I don't even know how to deal with the second part, because I don't understand the motivation for it.  Sharing answers on group text doesn't improve your grade a lick, so why do it?  I've always tried to make my courses hard enough that I need to curve a few points at the end, so if you're dishonestly helping other students get higher grades, you're hurting your own grade.

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Mole

Mole 4333

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Yeah, spring 2020 was the most labor intensive semester of teaching that I’ve ever had. Some things can be reconfigured on the fly, some can’t.

Taking classes that were never intended to be online and suddenly moving them online during midterms is pretty disruptive. Students no longer had access to basic school resources like the library. Many students had limited or spotty internet access. Some students just fell off the map. Add in the existential dread from the daily inside higher ed fear porn articles about how we’re all going to lose our jobs and have to go back to prostitution, of course everything was a mess.

I caught the usual volume of cheating but had parents stepping in (a first for me) with cries of “but COVID made my angel cheat.” 

My courses this fall looked much different, but that takes time and advanced planning. 

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fakebusiness

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On 12/23/2020 at 9:35 AM, BearSchlong said:

This is a well-publicized case, but I'd bet money that every single college had the same thing happen during covid.  Professors were mailing in their efforts to maintain course integrity so many students did the same thing with their personal integrity.

This past spring my daughter was in an advanced econ course and during an exam she noticed the group text (with several hundred members!!!!) blowing up with people sharing answers.  We were sharing my home office at the time so I saw it too.  She started taking screenshots - and she couldn't have been the only one - and after the exam she emailed them to the professor who then launched an investigation.

A few weeks later the professor contacted all the students with the following options.

1) Admit you cheated, take an F in the class, and re-take it a different semester.

2) Deny cheating, and if evidence shows to the contrary you will be failed, reported to the school for further action, and will NOT have the opportunity to retake the class (it's a prerequisite for many majors, you have to pass the class to get to Jr and Sr level classes.) This prevented quite a few people from completing their chosen degree path.

3) The exam grade will be counted (with a helluva curve once calculated) for students who reported the cheating and/or were not found to have participated in the group texts.

She almost hesitated to get involved but I told her fuck that, I write the checks and if you don't report it I will.

Unlike Slorch Jr. my son got waitlisted at WP and his backup was the TASSP and A&M for his Army commission.  He served on the honor board and apparently Aggies do cheat as well.

Not to disparage the cadets who really do earn their way into WP or our other military academies, but the kid that got in ahead of my son washed out in a month - his parents had cut a pretty large check to (redacted GOP fuckface Congressman).  I'm pretty sure my ex wife just gave him a handy.

I'll betcha there are quite a few future politicians in that pool of cheaters.

Why snitch tho??

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BearSchlong

BearSchlong 8098

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On 12/25/2020 at 5:24 PM, Beau Vine said:

Gonna disagree with the bolded -- many of us simply didn't know how to maintain course integrity and were learning entirely new platforms on the fly.  At least by the time fall rolled around, I had learned how to write algorithmic quizzes in Canvas.  

Also, I don't even know how to deal with the second part, because I don't understand the motivation for it.  Sharing answers on group text doesn't improve your grade a lick, so why do it?  I've always tried to make my courses hard enough that I need to curve a few points at the end, so if you're dishonestly helping other students get higher grades, you're hurting your own grade.

1) I see and appreciate your point, perhaps I was unduly harsh.

2) Exactly. the prepared, competitive students know this and employ this logic.  Maybe the average kids were trying to give their unprepared frat bros or sorority sisters a hand up?

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wd40

wd40 1976

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On 12/25/2020 at 12:07 PM, RDCanecutter said:

No doubt. Part of the problem is that the people who make it to the top in teaching are not necessarily veteran cheaters nor are they creative. It's like having a head of store security who doesn't think that people shoplift. These professors design testing systems that a bored chimp will figure out how to cheat on in 3 seconds, but a former dean's-list academic will not.

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Mole

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15 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Seriously?  You had parents contacting you when you busted their kids cheating?  College students?

Absolutely. Maybe doing virtual schooling from home just like public schools changed their sense of boundaries. There’s a 4-step process in dealing with these cases:

1. Contact the student to let them know someone is contacting me on their behalf and explain that I can’t discuss anything without a FERPA waiver. 

2. Exclaim in surprise when the student actually fills out the waiver.

3. Email the parent with an explanation of the many ways their precious child cheated.

4. Never hear back from either the parent or student. The parent is now aware that their child lied to them and made them look foolish. I like to imagine that there’s a lot of yelling during this step. 

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clapclapclap

clapclapclap 9000

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https://nypost.com/2020/12/30/most-west-point-cadets-in-cheating-scandal-are-athletes/

The majority of cadets caught cheating on a math test at the West Point military academy are athletes — including two dozen members of the Army football team playing West Virginia in Thursday’s Liberty Bowl.

Of the 24 Army Black Knights embroiled in the scandal, 17 remained in uniform as of Wednesday — and a few have already played in games this season, USA Today reported.

They remain on the team because West Point Superintendent Lt. Gen. Darryl Williams suspended the school’s policy of barring cadets who violate the academy’s honor code from representing the school in public.

The honor code is engraved in a monument at the Hudson River front school: “A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”

In all, 55 of the 73 cadets caught cheating on the May calculus test at the upstate New York school are members of sports teams and squads at the academy in the largest cheating scandal there in 44 years. (snip)

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Wanker Bob

Wanker Bob 379

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On 12/28/2020 at 12:44 PM, BearSchlong said:

Explain please.

Why wouldn't someone snitch?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

But not a snitch!

What is your motto here? "Boys, inform on your classmates, save your hide. Anything short of that, we're gonna burn you at the stake."?

What a sham! What kind of show are you guys puttin' on here today? I mean, the only class in this act is sittin' next to me. And I'm here to tell you, this boy's soul is intact

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Lt Col Slade would not believe your daughter's soul is intact

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fakebusiness

fakebusiness 129

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On 12/29/2020 at 8:07 PM, BearSchlong said:

Not even a remotely similar circumstance.

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Idk I was adjunct for a short period and if you can't prevent people from cheating that's kind of your fault. I would be more angry at the university that gets an endless supply of $$ for allowing that to happen.

As I student if I knew a group in the class were cheating I wouldn't gaf. If that's the decision they want to make so be it. Would your daughter be ok if those students found out who snitched? I understand where you're coming from but I would be more pissed at the university who is cashing all of those checks for allowing this to happen in the first place 

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fakebusiness

fakebusiness 129

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1 hour ago, Wanker Bob said:

But seriously I hope for your daughter's sake that professor has tight lips. With that many people implicated if one person finds out she's the one that snitched holy shit it could get really ugly. 

This is what I'd worry about as well. Especially with social media nowadays this could get really bad. Obviously it would be wrong and totally misguided but the people implicated aren't going to see it that way.

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