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HornOnTheBayou

By HornOnTheBayou
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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3444

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

They were looking at what the did in Phoenix and paid for that potential.

I learned a long time ago after thinking that Shareef Abdur Raheem was a good player because he averaged 20something points a game for the hapless Hawks that even on bad teams somebody has to score. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43418

Posted
Posted (edited)

James Wiseman is fucking awesome in garbage time.

And he might get to play a lot of garbage time... this Ws team is horrendous so far. Giannis used like 22 possessions to score 15 points and the Bucks are cruising by 30+.

Edited by ztejas
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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3444

Posted
Posted (edited)

Give me an all relationship team. Players who only made the league because their more talented brothers got them a spot on a league roster. 

Thanasis  Adetokunbo & Kostas Adetokunbo (although his days might be numbered with Giannis recent signing of his extension)

Chris Smith who actually got a roster spot with the Knicks  because the Knicks are the Knicks and they're the only franchise who thought it necessary to sign JR Smith's brother in order to lure him to their team.  

Any others?

 

Edited by Catdaddyhorn
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Brothahorn

Brothahorn 10087

Posted
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

I learned a long time ago after thinking that Shareef Abdur Raheem was a good player because he averaged 20something points a game for the hapless Hawks that even on bad teams somebody has to score. 

Truth. And yet there are NBA execs who still can't figure that out.

Edited by Brothahorn
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d2o

d2o 1602

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

I learned a long time ago after thinking that Shareef Abdur Raheem was a good player because he averaged 20something points a game for the hapless Hawks that even on bad teams somebody has to score. 

My best friend's father had a saying about that:   "The numbers are there.   Somebody has to get them."     He told us that about 30 yrs ago and its still 100% true.

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aggie08

aggie08 21497

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Kermit said:

On a scale of a million dollars to a warm bucket of piss, where does Andrew Wiggins fall? 

If I was the owner of an NBA franchise, I'd rather pay someone $1M to dump a warm bucket of piss on my head than willingly pay Andrew Wiggins to play on my basketball team. Does that answer your question? Definitely a case of sniffing their own farts and thinking that their organization/locker room can transform anyone.

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19069

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ztejas said:

James Wiseman is fucking awesome in garbage time.

And he might get to play a lot of garbage time... this Ws team is horrendous so far. Giannis used like 22 possessions to score 15 points and the Bucks are cruising by 30+.

So this is my argument against Curry not being as great as people say (like best ball player in the world). We’ve seen LBJ drag some shitty teams to the finals. We’ve seen Harden drag multiple shitty teams to the second round. We’ve seen curry play about 9 games in the last 2 years without Dray and Klay and his teams lost by roughly eleventy million points as Steph is on the end of a non consensual buttfucking. 
I don’t know that I believe this argument, but the data points are starting to add up for me to consider that this is a possibility. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43418

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Posted
Just now, Wulaw Horn said:

So this is my argument against Curry not being as great as people say (like best ball player in the world). We’ve seen LBJ drag some shitty teams to the finals. We’ve seen Harden drag multiple shitty teams to the second round. We’ve seen curry play about 9 games in the last 2 years without Dray and Klay and his teams lost by roughly eleventy million points as Steph is on the end of a non consensual buttfucking. 
I don’t know that I believe this argument, but the data points are starting to add up for me to consider that this is a possibility. 

Yeah. This was in the back of my mind when I was watching as well. They look like the same shitty lottery team from last year. Granted, Curry didn't play well but he does seem to be more of a ceiling raiser than floor raiser. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19069

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9 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Yeah. This was in the back of my mind when I was watching as well. They look like the same shitty lottery team from last year. Granted, Curry didn't play well but he does seem to be more of a ceiling raiser than floor raiser. 

This is a fair way to say it. I don’t know what you would/should value more but Harden- who gets massive shit- hasn’t ever gone lower than 500 (I don’t think). This dubs team looks awful. Again- because they looked awful before Steph hurt himself last year too. 

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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Posted
So this is my argument against Curry not being as great as people say (like best ball player in the world). We’ve seen LBJ drag some shitty teams to the finals. We’ve seen Harden drag multiple shitty teams to the second round. We’ve seen curry play about 9 games in the last 2 years without Dray and Klay and his teams lost by roughly eleventy million points as Steph is on the end of a non consensual buttfucking. 
I don’t know that I believe this argument, but the data points are starting to add up for me to consider that this is a possibility. 
Scorching hot take. You're my dude but yikes. Imagine if LeBron had to play with Kevin Looney as his 2nd best guy.
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aggie08

aggie08 21497

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

So this is my argument against Curry not being as great as people say (like best ball player in the world). We’ve seen LBJ drag some shitty teams to the finals. We’ve seen Harden drag multiple shitty teams to the second round. We’ve seen curry play about 9 games in the last 2 years without Dray and Klay and his teams lost by roughly eleventy million points as Steph is on the end of a non consensual buttfucking. 
I don’t know that I believe this argument, but the data points are starting to add up for me to consider that this is a possibility. 

Take a look at the Mark Jackson years. Steph was the best player by a country mile, and the 2013 team won a playoff series and played the eventual champion Spurs tough, and then won 50+ games and took the Clippers to 7 in 2014. They had a pre-prime Klay and...David Lee and Jermaine O'Neal. With a league average point guard, those teams are abysmal. Last year's roster was a glorified G-league team. No one could have gotten them to the postseason.

This year will be interesting. More talent than last year (pretty much by default), but not exactly a bunch of high IQ, versatile guys that the Warriors have been known for. It's going to take time to develop chemistry in a conference where they can't afford to start 11-19. If they don't get Draymond back and playing defense soon, that record may even be optimistic.

Yeah, Steph's not LeBron or Harden as a regular season work horse that you can surround with 11 random NBA players and get 27, 8, and 7 and a home playoff series year after year. But who is?

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19069

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Posted
16 minutes ago, BradInATX said:
1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:
So this is my argument against Curry not being as great as people say (like best ball player in the world). We’ve seen LBJ drag some shitty teams to the finals. We’ve seen Harden drag multiple shitty teams to the second round. We’ve seen curry play about 9 games in the last 2 years without Dray and Klay and his teams lost by roughly eleventy million points as Steph is on the end of a non consensual buttfucking. 
I don’t know that I believe this argument, but the data points are starting to add up for me to consider that this is a possibility. 

Scorching hot take. You're my dude but yikes. Imagine if LeBron had to play with Kevin Looney as his 2nd best guy.

It’s not really my hot take. I said I’m not sure I believe this to be the case, I’m repeatIng what some of his biggest detractors say, and saying basically if this keeps up that’s going to take some of the shine off for SC for me. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43418

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17 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Steph was the best player by a country mile, and the 2013 team won a playoff series and played the eventual champion Spurs tough, and then won 50+ games and took the Clippers to 7 in 2014. They had a pre-prime Klay and...David Lee and Jermaine O'Neal. With a league average point guard, those teams are abysmal.

My God there's a lot wrong with this. Curry was great in 2013 but wasn't yet a world-beater. He went 23 and 7 in the regular season - elevated a bit to 23 and 8 in the playoffs. David Lee was an all-star that season. Carl Landry was really good off the bench. Jarrett Jack was a solid player. Barnes and Draymond really came on in the playoffs. The Spurs didn't win the title that year although they were a Finals team. 

Curry carried them much more in 2014 in the regular season but in the playoffs Draymond began to emerge and Iggy, Klay and Lee were all pretty solid. 

The league was pretty different and not nearly as deep back then, too. Relative to the teams they were playing both the 2013 and 2014 Ws sans Curry were more talented than the 2018 Cavs sans LeBron. Probably comparable to some of the early Harden Rockets teams, too. 

I'm not really arguing one way or another - just trying to keep this informed and somewhat objective.

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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Posted



It’s not really my hot take. I said I’m not sure I believe this to be the case, I’m repeatIng what some of his biggest detractors say, and saying basically if this keeps up that’s going to take some of the shine off for SC for me. 


Eh. If one can't recognize how insanely historic Steph's run was, they'll need to understand the game better. He could run around trying to find his next superteam like KD, but he knows how that'll be seen in the long run.

Here are currently active players who have completely changed the way basketball is played, officiated, analyzed, scouted:

Steph Curry
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aggie08

aggie08 21497

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3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

My God there's a lot wrong with this. Curry was great in 2013 but wasn't yet a world-beater. He went 23 and 7 in the regular season - elevated a bit to 23 and 8 in the playoffs. David Lee was an all-star that season. Carl Landry was really good off the bench. Jarrett Jack was a solid player. Barnes and Draymond really came on in the playoffs. The Spurs didn't win the title that year although they were a Finals team. 

Curry carried them much more in 2014 in the regular season but in the playoffs Draymond began to emerge and Iggy, Klay and Lee were all pretty solid. 

The league was pretty different and not nearly as deep back then, too. Relative to the teams they were playing both the 2013 and 2014 Ws sans Curry were more talented than the 2018 Cavs sans LeBron. Probably comparable to some of the early Harden Rockets teams, too. 

I'm not really arguing one way or another - just trying to keep this informed and somewhat objective.

You're right; I got my years mixed up and forgot that the Spurs only win even year championships. 2013 was they year that they swept everyone else in the West, but lost to Miami in 7.

Draymond was mostly invisible as a rookie and only played 18 minutes a game in the 2013 playoffs. He did have a great series against the Clippers in 2014 after a so-so (6, 5, and 2) regular season.

Maybe abysmal was too strong of a word choice, but having David Lee as your 2nd best player, and needing to depend on Karl Landry and Jarrett Jack is not a very good roster. Better than the the 2018 Cavs, sure, but without the benefits of playing in the East. Agree that the 2014 roster was much improved with Iggy coming in, and Klay and Barnes improving. The west was super deep that year. Dallas was the 8 seed with 49 wins. Steph was the team's only All-Star and finished 6th in MVP voting.

 

 

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3444

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2 hours ago, ztejas said:

Yeah. This was in the back of my mind when I was watching as well. They look like the same shitty lottery team from last year. Granted, Curry didn't play well but he does seem to be more of a ceiling raiser than floor raiser. 

Excellent summation of exactly what he is. I'd add that the offense they run also magnifies his specific skillset more than any system has ever done for an individual player. . 

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Message Board User

Message Board User 12395

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Casual 73 point 2nd half for the Nets.

KD and Kyrie tonight;

22/37 for 66 points- 10 boards, 11 assists, 3 turnovers - both went +31

Decent.

 

It's kind of poetic that the Celtics got a gazillion picks...and now the Nets have passed them up with the Celtics never having reached the Finals.

Edited by Message Board User
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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3444

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1 minute ago, Message Board User said:

It's kind of poetic that the Celtics got a gazillion picks...and now the Nets have passed them up with the Celtics never having reached the Finals.

People endlessly slobbered praise all over Ainge for hoarding those picks, but fail to in turn level the appropriate criticism at him for doing the bare minimum with them. 

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Message Board User

Message Board User 12395

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5 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Everyone should have known that franchise was about to go on a many years long descent into the dumpster fire once their owners started talking about how they’ve unlocked the new paradigm and solved the puzzle of the NBA.  It was like Charlie Weis and his decided schematic advantage over all those other idiot coaches who obviously aren’t as smart as he is.  

Ok, good luck with that, tech bro dudes.  That success was clearly all due to your forward thinking data driven synergistic sustainable revolutionary rethinking of what it means to play basketball, and not Steph Curry going on the hottest shooting streak in NBA history at the same time that you signed one of the best superstars who has ever switched teams in his prime.   Ending up with Andrew Wiggins on a max deal as your compensation for KD and D’Angelo Russell shows you really have this whole NBA thing down to a science.

Watching him over the past 5+ years, it's crazy to think that Wiggins was considered a can't miss prospect and that he was going to be an all world defender from the moment he stepped onto the NBA court.

It's almost humorous reading his draft profiles now:

Andrew Wiggins NBA Draft 2014: Highlights, Scouting Report for Cavaliers Rookie | Bleacher Report | Latest News, Videos and Highlights

The big Andrew Wiggins scouting report: Unlimited upside should make him the No. 1 pick - SBNation.com

Andrew Wiggins - NBADraft.net

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aggie08

aggie08 21497

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18 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Excellent summation of exactly what he is. I'd add that the offense they run also magnifies his specific skillset more than any system has ever done for an individual player. . 

To be fair, it's an offense that only exists because Steph is who he is. With Steph off the court, all of those off ball screens 30 ft from the basket don't open up the floor, produce the same spacing, or create 3 vs. 2 opportunities nearly as effectively. Kerr's offense has never been particularly great without him.

I agree with the assessment that he's more of ceiling raiser than a floor raiser. I don't think he needs an superteam to win, but he at least needs high IQ players who can run a very free-flowing offense and also pick up his slack on defense.

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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To be fair, it's an offense that only exists because Steph is who he is. With Steph off the court, all of those off ball screens 30 ft from the basket don't open up the floor, produce the same spacing, or create 3 vs. 2 opportunities nearly as effectively. Kerr's offense has never been particularly great without him.
I agree with the assessment that he's more of ceiling raiser than a floor raiser. I don't think he needs an superteam to win, but he at least needs high IQ players who can run a very free-flowing offense and also pick up his slack on defense.
He needs a good #2 beta type player that succeeds under an alpha dog. A Ginoboli, Kevin Love, or Kevin Durant type.
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Vic Mackey

Vic Mackey 47025

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Posted
19 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

I watch the Mavs with Luka and all I can think of is Lebron & the Cavs 03-10.

It'll be a minor miracle if Kristaps ever plays 60 games in a season again.

Dallas was fucking stupid to trade for him. The Knicks, the dumbest franchise in the league had zero problems getting rid of him. That should tell you a lot. Everyone thought Dallas won that trade easily and what the hell was NY doing. Yeah well we see. 7 footers already are at a disadvantage to begin with because of how they are built. A 7 footer with his injury issues? He's going to wither away very soon. 

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aggie08

aggie08 21497

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29 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Dallas was fucking stupid to trade for him. The Knicks, the dumbest franchise in the league had zero problems getting rid of him. That should tell you a lot. Everyone thought Dallas won that trade easily and what the hell was NY doing. Yeah well we see. 7 footers already are at a disadvantage to begin with because of how they are built. A 7 footer with his injury issues? He's going to wither away very soon. 

Trading for him in a vacuum was fine, given that the Mavs gave up nothing of value to get him. But they brought him in knowing full well that they'd have to immediately max him out to keep him happy after 1.5 good seasons and before playing one second for Dallas.

It sucks, but hard to blame them with as many free agent strikeouts as they've had over the years.

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Brothahorn

Brothahorn 10087

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

Watching him over the past 5+ years, it's crazy to think that Wiggins was considered a can't miss prospect and that he was going to be an all world defender from the moment he stepped onto the NBA court.

It's almost humorous reading his draft profiles now:

Andrew Wiggins NBA Draft 2014: Highlights, Scouting Report for Cavaliers Rookie | Bleacher Report | Latest News, Videos and Highlights

The big Andrew Wiggins scouting report: Unlimited upside should make him the No. 1 pick - SBNation.com

Andrew Wiggins - NBADraft.net

IMO, the NBA gets it wrong in their draft evals more than any other sport. They love potential more than production, it seems. Or maybe they just have more high profile draft busts. 

 

Also, are you guys sure Steph is an Alpha? Just because he was hitting the shots and getting the publicity doesn't make him the alpha. 

Edited by Brothahorn
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