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Managing property for wild game hunting


Reagan1k

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^^^^This is the key to having a smallish property. It's like having a small penis. You have to be creative on what you do with it to make it attractive.
1. Water
2. Bedding areas (does bed closer to food and bucks behind that so you need multiple bedding areas if possible.)
3. Food, food, food. Multiple varieties. If you can put in a food plot, along with feeders that is best.
4. Low hunting pressure and no running all over the property.

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4 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Damn @Reagan1k those are some great deer.  Better than what we’ve been seeing for last several years on our place. 

2020-2021 season was below average for us in mature bucks.  Numbers- not quality.  We got hit with a lot of Hypogonadism a few years back and based on the numbers of mature velvet bucks we’ve taken this year and last- I think our total numbers in that age class were down.... with regard to unaffected bucks. 

We’ve had a high 140’s/low 150’s taken and another 11 that didn’t score great (maybe 140) but he was a brute with heavy horns that declined from last year.  There’s a high 150’s 5yr old that’s going to make it.  Not for lack of trying but he was only hunted with bows. 

However, we have an abundance of 130”-140” 3’s and 4’s so we’re chalking this year up an anomaly and hoping for a wet start to this year and that they all stay off the highway.  2021 and 2022 could be well above average.

as @Spaulding Smailssaid.... time, money, and add patience.

The hypogonadism is a variable somewhat unique to our place due to all the exposed granite, but we just deal with it and know that we “loose” a certain percentage of bucks from each fawn crop to that anomaly and work harder to not shoot any until they come of age. 

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[mention=566]Reagan1k[/mention] that's really well said.  One advantage we have is that the property is almost perfectly square.  So, it "feels" bigger than it is.  
I like the suggestion about creative feeding times.  Any thoughts / suggestions on encouraging bedding areas?  
Have you ever done any hinge cutting trees or plant some long grasses to try to enduce them to bed there?
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3 hours ago, Spaulding Smails said:

@Reagan1k that's really well said.  One advantage we have is that the property is almost perfectly square.  So, it "feels" bigger than it is.  

I like the suggestion about creative feeding times.  Any thoughts / suggestions on encouraging bedding areas?  

For the record, I'm not a biologist and do not hold myself as an expert.  I've learned plenty upthread already.  All I know is what I've seen over the years.  Take this with a grain of salt.

Deer seek different cover at various time.  Whether for actual bedding (day or night) or to get out of the weather, etc, there seem to be some themes.  At night we commonly see them bedding in fairly open mesquite flats.  During the daytime they seems to prefer thick cover like a cedar thicker but other times it may be an oak flat with lots of shade.

I think what you are looking for is a variety of cover with varying density.  Give them an excuse to be on your property regardless of what they prefer.  

At times I think they want to have plenty of vision and minimal cover (mesquite flats) and other times they seem to want to be in an impenetrable fortress like a young cedar stand. 

Take what the land gives you and build on it from there.  Leave some areas really dense.  In other areas you would want to open up the ground level, but leave a full canopy by clearing out under and around substantial trees.  Open fields also have their place for both forbes and fawning.  

If you predominantly have only one of cedar, mesquite, or hardwood then work with that but create differing levels of thickness.  If you've got a mixture of hardwood, mesquite, and cedar, then look for ways to improve what you have and amplify it.  

What you don't want is just one type of cover AND thickness, because they want variety based on their daily needs.

The ag extension agent or a biologist would be the right person to consult for sure and it would be worth the time and / or money.

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3 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Remember, deer are edge species. They like to travel along the edge of cover that they can hop into to quickly escape predators. So make sure you have some escape routes leading from the neighbors' property. Just some brushy fingers strategically placed leading to your sanctuary area. 

^^^^^ much truth to this.  Sculpt pockets of brush bordering their fence or create situations to encourage their growth. 

Don’t be afraid to cut trails meandering inside your cover.  It doesn’t have to be a highway- just permitting movement if the cover is very dense.

You can also use cuts and fallen vegetation to create natural funnels on your own property.  We do this a lot around bow blinds to control ingress and egress so that we don’t have deer able to easily walk right under stands where scent becomes a problem.  If they want to get to a feeder for instance, you can control how they approach it.

Ariel photos or google earth brings a lot of this to life.  You can see funnels and sanctuary areas that are not always evident on foot.

 

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^^^^^ much truth to this.  Sculpt pockets of brush bordering their fence or create situations to encourage their growth. 
Don’t be afraid to cut trails meandering inside your cover.  It doesn’t have to be a highway- just permitting movement if the cover is very dense.
You can also use cuts and fallen vegetation to create natural funnels on your own property.  We do this a lot around bow blinds to control ingress and egress so that we don’t have deer able to easily walk right under stands where scent becomes a problem.  If they want to get to a feeder for instance, you can control how they approach it.
Ariel photos or google earth brings a lot of this to life.  You can see funnels and sanctuary areas that are not always evident on foot.
 


This is great advice. I use Google Earth to measure my plots and plan blind locations, etc. and get an idea of what’s going on over the fence at the neighbor’s regarding brush, feeder/blind/water locations, etc.
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Dr. Deer has a study showing that deer can have a range of only ~50-60 acres if everything they need is in that area (food, water, visual cover, thermal cover). That’s something else to consider with your layout as well with small acreage - you can minimize the deer’s range (and potentially keep them on your place more) if you have all of those ingredients in enough quantity and close proximity.

On our 200 acres, we basically have a “southern herd” and a “northern herd” that each have the cover, water, and food elements in close proximity. There is some crossing over, but I can recognize individuals that spend the vast majority of their time on one side or the other.

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3 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Late season blind replacement.  
 

2 more after this. 

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That will work.

One thing I would recommend to anyone starting out, and this is from someone who has dealt with ranches since I was a kid: 

Do not try and save money on two things -- feeders and game cameras.  Buy once, cry once.  I can and have hunted out of $200 4x6 blinds made by a small town FFA class that, with another $150 of material makes a very nice 4 foot stand.  But cheap feeders and gams camera will drive your ass nuts.

I now buy 1,600 pound feeders from a guy near Beaumont who uses sheet metal with all seasons control units and The Timer.  And that shit costs $1,000 but is fucking bullet proof and can't be knocked over by hogs or cows (I still, due to being type A, anchor it with rebar and t posts).  You can be away two months and it will still run when you come back.

 I have fucked around with cheaper feeders.  And cheaper game cameras.  It is never worth it.  Find out what works and buy it.  Even the $400 stand and fill from Buccees with all seasons parts is a decent option.  Don't fuck with cheap feeders.

 

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Glad the conversation turned to some smaller acreage. I got like 80 acres (formerly 35). Got the wildlife ag exemption. We do alright, but mainly just like to drink beer and get a little venison. Do protein in off season and have built a couple wildlife water collection systems. 
Nothing wrong with small acreage. I have 65 acres and half of that is in wetlands. Give the deer some good food and a place to be relaxed, you can have a successful place. We've killed 3 nice bucks off my land that some with 100's of acres would have like on their place.
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17 hours ago, deadshank said:

Late season blind replacement.  
 

2 more after this. 

A96610D1-4C1F-43BA-874B-F44D272358FC.jpeg

2EDE76CC-3933-48C8-BA39-C20E34FEFFC2.jpeg

That tree painted on the side will really trick them. Get you a PVC bell reducer and fit a short section of pipe on the small end. Drill a hole in the floor in the corner big enough to insert the pipe. Make it just below waist level of your shortest hunter. Caulk the hole around the pipe and find a way to mount the bell reducer to the wall in the corner. Now you have somewhere to pee while you are drinking beer in your blind.

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2 hours ago, deadshank said:

Done and done. 

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Looks good.  Anchoring looks sound. 

Never underestimate Mother Nature’s ability to derail your hunt with some wind. I have a huge tower blind we got from Bode Feed 15-20 years ago.  All steel framed and Hardie Board siding / roof.  Big stairs up to a landing.... weighed something ungodly.   It’ll be there forever. 

Legs were set on concrete pads with a big stainless chain deadman positioned like that.

One weekend we drive in and noticed some trees damaged by wind.  Drove by the blind and happened to stop to piss.

The blind had been picked up and moved off the concrete pads- all four legs and stairs had moved about a foot.

Fortunately it was still straight as the shift was equal. 

I have no idea if it was straight line winds or a small twister, but had they not installed that deadman, it would have been on its side for sure. 

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I use an auger and hurricane straps to anchor my stands.  The straps won't stretch.  Ever.  Cable will stretch and you have to tighten.

This:

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Plus:

 

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Another thing on stands that aren't tall, if you are in a spot where it is rocky: Just run four 10 or 12' long 2x4 on the ground away from each leg.  Then brace it with another shorter 2x4 diagonally on the leg.  It will not ever tip over.  Because the base from the outrigged legs is huge.

 

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I bought my blind for about 20% of the cost of new because someone didn’t anchor it.  Large Texas wildlife supply steel blind that goes for just under 5k new on a 12’ stand. Dude underestimated Mother Nature I guess.   Had to pull it apart to straighten a few of the walls out, but yeah. Anchor your blinds y’all. 

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20 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I bought my blind for about 20% of the cost of new because someone didn’t anchor it.  Large Texas wildlife supply steel blind that goes for just under 5k new on a 12’ stand. Dude underestimated Mother Nature I guess.   Had to pull it apart to straighten a few of the walls out, but yeah. Anchor your blinds y’all. 

Speaking of Texas Wildlife Supply... 
 

Our store bought blinds ar3 made by them.  The owner is a friend of ours and they make nice blinds.   We have 5 10-footers and 2 15-footers.   

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1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

To @Johnny Sack point earlier about quality feeders, I’ve been VERY impressed with the Texas Wildlife Supply feeder I bought this year. 650#.  I’m buying another this season.   They are heavy. And I’m a fan of seam welded heavy dumb steel over riveted sheet metal.  

we have 13 of those

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Testing out some GreenGo 800lb feeders for the coming year.  Our crew put out two with 6 more to go.  If all goes well, we'll likely replace all of out barrel / crank feeders with them or similar.  Seem to be a good compromise between durability and ease of transport/positioning.

Good info above on Texas Wildlife Supply.

Ran a count on hogs confirmed killed from 10/1/20 through 1/10/21 and we were at 93.  Wish it was more.  Will probably try to bring in some traps this spring or call in an airstrike from Puff the Magic Dragon.  We're by no means overrun, but are also conscious of the damage their doing long term. 

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1 hour ago, Reagan1k said:

Testing out some GreenGo 800lb feeders for the coming year.

GreenGo was my 1b when it came down to it.  There was a feeder called “almost perfect” that some little feed store out in west Texas used to have, but the gentleman quit making them.  That was my first choice.  But very similar to the Texas Wildlife Supply except they have the full critter plate.  I haven’t had any issues with the cage/spin plate I have. 

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On 1/1/2021 at 8:58 AM, Spaulding Smails said:

What's the thought on impact of adjacent properties for a smaller place like ours?  We have three neighbors total.  Mostly decent sized (600+ acre) ranches, with some hunting pressure from what we can see.  The smaller place (200 acres) next to us is pretty heavily hunted.  And the guy's a dick.  We've talked to him and the two other landowners sparingly.  One leases it to hunters, the other doesn't but said he and his family hunt quite a bit.  No conversations about conservation, but my guess is, based on the disappearance of bucks (both on cameras and from the stand), that they're probably shooting immature bucks without any regard for longterm herd improvement.  

Also, any idea what the target deer population per 100 acres is in that area?

Classic "prisoners dilemma".  

"They" are not going to abide by the rules, so I have to get mine first.  

What you can look at doing is create a sanctuary as best you can.  Feed as much as you can, manage the habitat, and reduce pressure as best you can.  We have the same issues on larger tracts of land surrounding us (600-1000 acres), but the problem is the same.  Our hunters also bow hunt, so they can get out earlier in the season before rifle season kicks off.  Something to think about.  As well, bow hunters are quiet, putting less pressure on the rest.  I'm very much a stick/string novice, but I've taken deer and had the others just still standing around the feeder, oblivious.

If you can feed and put out food plots, and harvest older bucks earlier in the season, you might have something there.  Then harvest does later in the season if you have any MLD tags.  

Axis?  You have consistent axis on a low fenced property?  Do they not jump, or do they just come and go?

Edited by BabaYaga
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59 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Classic "prisoners dilemma".  

"They" are not going to abide by the rules, so I have to get mine first.  

What you can look at doing is create a sanctuary as best you can.  Feed as much as you can, manage the habitat, and reduce pressure as best you can.  We have the same issues on larger tracts of land surrounding us (600-1000 acres), but the problem is the same.  Our hunters also bow hunt, so they can get out earlier in the season before rifle season kicks off.  Something to think about.  As well, bow hunters are quiet, putting less pressure on the rest.  I'm very much a stick/string novice, but I've taken deer and had the others just still standing around the feeder, oblivious.

If you can feed and put out food plots, and harvest older bucks earlier in the season, you might have something there.  Then harvest does later in the season if you have any MLD tags.  

Axis?  You have consistent axis on a low fenced property?  Do they not jump, or do they just come and go?

Great insight.  Thank you.  I don't bow hunt, and we missed the youth weekend this year.  But, that's a great suggestion to get out there early.

We have tons of axis very consistently.  Some of the same tend to stick around, and they ebb and flow.  But, pretty much year round which is awesome.  They jump and move around, but I think the herd in that area is very strong.  Maybe even too strong.  

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10 minutes ago, Spaulding Smails said:

Maybe even too strong.  

This is worth unpacking, as Axis tend to pressure WT's.  They are larger, more dominant, and while have differing food patterns (they are grazers), they both are attracted to the feeders and can/will push WT's out.  Habitat interference and exploitative competition are very real.  As the Axis population grows, the WT almost always shrinks.  

Tons of papers written on the subject.  You can mitigate some by year-round feeding, food plots, etc.  

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On 1/9/2021 at 11:26 AM, deadshank said:

Done and done. 

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Long time ago, back in the "single" days, me and the boys had this one old, crappy blind at the far end of the property (was much larger back then - 2,000+ acres).  Well, in an alcohol induced fit, we used a bunch of survey marking spray paint and painted it bright red/pink.

From that point on, the guy who passed out first got the "big vag" blind for pussing out.  Ironically, lots of deer taken there.  The point - color doesn't matter once the deer has localized to it and get used to it. 

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5 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Long time ago, back in the "single" days, me and the boys had this one old, crappy blind at the far end of the property (was much larger back then - 2,000+ acres).  Well, in an alcohol induced fit, we used a bunch of survey marking spray paint and painted it bright red/pink.

From that point on, the guy who passed out first got the "big vag" blind for pussing out.  Ironically, lots of deer taken there.  The point - color doesn't matter once the deer has localized to it and get used to it. 

The paint job was done by our 70 year old member.  He's a hoot and knows that it is just to break up the solid color and does the paintwork as a goof.

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the absolute #1 improvement we made about 15 years ago was no longer allowing hunters to kill "spikes". The neighbors reluctantly agreed to do the same a few years later. 95% of the spikes these guys were killing were simply 1st year deer who were just breaking out in mid December. 

 

We run game cams and print out target pictures and make a guide book for each member to posses. This has helped a ton in regards to eliminating the happy trigger pulls on the 3-5 year old deer. 

Also culling our members on the property to actual hunters who are willing to put in more than just 3 sits a season, and guys who would bring their family and friends along and allow them to shoot whatever walked out first.

I run protein in a timed feeder at midnight from Memorial Day till Labor Day, and run the free range protein feeders from Halloween till mid March. The mature bucks will dominate the herd at the midnight feedings. We do not feed corn. 

Stands are placed on trail lines between cover and water, and the majority of our hunters prefer to hunt between 9am-4pm.

Our overall success rate has improved dramatically.

 

I mix in some milo in the timed feeders for the quail and turkey, and we try and burn pasture when the weather allows. Generally about every 4-6 years. Cattle and goats will unknowingly trample quail nests. But, the most important thing is always the timing of the rain. Mother Nature is the biggest factor in the success of our places. Quail need tons of bugs in the spring. 

 

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5 hours ago, DonnyKerabatsos said:

the absolute #1 improvement we made about 15 years ago was no longer allowing hunters to kill "spikes". The neighbors reluctantly agreed to do the same a few years later. 95% of the spikes these guys were killing were simply 1st year deer who were just breaking out in mid December

If you follow any of the groups on Facebook (puro pinche, South Texas low fence, etc), you’ll see that guys are constantly posting pics of spikes and “culls” that are obviously yearling bucks. 

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the game cams tell the whole story. It is incredibly rare to see a mature spike like that. 

Luckily we have a few guys that actually prefer to hunt the mutants that we do get from time to time. Generally we will get some weird 7 points that go 5 x 2 or so. The gene that we see usually goes about 18 - 20 wide and those deer look pretty cool. We used to have some slick 6 points without brow tines, but we have noticed that when the range is in good shape we hardily see anything that is freak. Diet and water make such a huge difference.

These results have been consistent in both Irion and Menard counties.

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Yeah, not only does shooting spikes keep deer from growing up, but it also messed up your buck:doe ratio. I'm glad to see the attitudes changing when it comes to spikes. There is some research that shows they may be genetically inferior, but that is in captive conditions where all the fawns drop at the same time and all the deer get plenty of protein. In the real world, genetics is at the bottom of the list of reasons why that yearling at your feeder is a spike.

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I don’t mind taking yearling spikes since we always have plenty of yearlings with forked antlers.  Our philosophy is to take the inferior bucks in each age class.  This requires knowing how to age on the hoof.  For guests, we send them pics.  And everyone we send to a blind is sent with an attachment that clips to their phone camera and functions as a zoom lens.  
 

Any questionable ones you send a text to group and our ranch manager.  This has made screw ups non existent.  
 

We are in south Texas.  High fenced 11,000 acres. All natural genetics.  And this has worked for us.  We have too many deer not to shoot spikes. We feed a lot and have food plots everywhere, three are irrigated. But there are still only so many groceries on the ground.  
 

We could probably double our protein feed bill and there would be enough groceries where we could let spikes mature.  But my granddad already spends a shitload on feed and on the ranch in general. 

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1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

That is awesome.  

I’m on borrowed time though.  He’s old.  So is my grandmother.  The land is worth 6x what he paid for it.  It will be sold when the last of the two passes.  I’m trying to convince my parents and aunts/uncles to keep a few thousand acres.  Unlikely. Just trying to enjoy it for as long as possible.  

Edited by Hunt Stevenson
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15 hours ago, Lat22 said:

If you follow any of the groups on Facebook (puro pinche, South Texas low fence, etc), you’ll see that guys are constantly posting pics of spikes and “culls” that are obviously yearling bucks. 

We don't shoot spikes unless they are obviously a mature deer.  If there is one iota of doubt, we let it walk.  We can always shoot it the following year, and it prevents us from shooting yearling spikes.  For example, the picture above would be a shoot-on-site.

The guidance from our biologist was that since the doe's genetics (not identifiable) are a significant factor in offspring's antler development, "culling" very young bucks was not an efficient management tool - As long as the herd vs. range population was in check. 

If the pasture is overrun with deer, then reducing the total number is the primary goal, and in doing so you can chose the "inferior" young bucks, but only as part of the process of getting the population to an optimum level.

Once bucks get to 3 or 4 years, we can see the obvious bucks that are never going to develop and we try to take the scraggly ones to lessen their impact; primarily on the available food for more desirable deer, but also to remove some of those genetics from the heard as a secondary goal - But, the primary goal is always to get a mouth off the range competing for food.

We have witnessed that if we have enough bucks reach 5-6 years AND have adequate food and water, that mother nature takes care of itself with regard to antler development.  If, however, the range cannot support the aggregate number of mouths, then no amount of selective culling is going to be effective until the population comes into balance.

We strive for (in this order) 1) overall population numbers 2) buck/doe ratio  3) selective "culling" - which unless #1 and #2 are address, does not seem to have any benefit.

It kills me when I see a picture of a 2 year old 6-8 point and someone calls it a cull as if that's improving their genetics.  Unless they are in a closed environment and have numerous other bucks from the same breeding year with which to compare it, to me that's not a cull; it's just one less buck you'll have reaching maturity and its true potential.

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1 hour ago, Hunt Stevenson said:

I’m on borrowed time though.  He’s old.  So is my grandmother.  The land is worth 6x what he paid for it.  It will be sold when the last of the two passes.  I’m trying to convince my parents and aunts/uncles to keep a few thousand acres.  Unlikely. Just trying to enjoy it for as long as possible.  

I’ll give them $treefiddy!!

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31 minutes ago, Hunt Stevenson said:

I’m on borrowed time though.  He’s old.  So is my grandmother.  The land is worth 6x what he paid for it.  It will be sold when the last of the two passes.  I’m trying to convince my parents and aunts/uncles to keep a few thousand acres.  Unlikely. Just trying to enjoy it for as long as possible.  

Sigh.  Yeah, I get it.  What happened to us on a smaller scale.  2,000+ acres down to less than 650.  Happened all across the state.  Why you see so many of these "hobby" ranches/farms that have been sold, split, and sometimes split again.

Of course beyond value, land is a fixed asset.  There's always that.  Are there any talks about dividing amongst all the children?

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Re eatate planning. I think about even with my 2 kids. Maybe my daughter would want it, but likely she'll move to a coast and would see no value in some central Texas scrub. But small as it is, my son could (if he wanted it) just sort of take it out of his half of the estate and it wouldn't move the needle too much. But if it was 240+ ac, that's real money. 

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On 1/13/2021 at 9:39 AM, BabaYaga said:

Sigh.  Yeah, I get it.  What happened to us on a smaller scale.  2,000+ acres down to less than 650.  Happened all across the state.  Why you see so many of these "hobby" ranches/farms that have been sold, split, and sometimes split again.

Of course beyond value, land is a fixed asset.  There's always that.  Are there any talks about dividing amongst all the children?

The ranch goes to the two sons.  Who will sell it.  My mom and her sister will get the cash equivalent.  It will be over.  My grandparents will have a complicated estate that will take some time to settle.  And wouldn’t be surprised if that process takes a few years.  But at best that will just add a few years.  My uncles are good guys. I’ll be able to hunt until it’s sold even after grandparents pass.  But they’ll want their money.  

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3 hours ago, Hunt Stevenson said:

My uncles are good guys. I’ll be able to hunt until it’s sold even after grandparents pass.  But they’ll want their money.  

I was going to say, this being a hunting thread and all of us loving land it’s skewed, but taking care of 11k ac is a tremendous task, even with the cowboys and laborers, biologists, O&G lease bullshit, etc.    kudos to your grandfather for having the ability to do it in the first place.  With that much $$$, maybe one of them will pick up a “small” 2500 acre place for the family or something.  Still sucks for this thread topic tho. 

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