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A story about a pathetic man's downfall [34 Felony Convictions]

Francisco 2.0

By Francisco 2.0
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Beau Vine
Beau Vine

To be fair, President Trump’s four years in office weren’t so bad, except when when he incited an insurrection against the government, mismanaged a pandemic that killed nearly half a million Americans

Bama Chick
Bama Chick

Y’all about to get a great visual representation of Cullman, Alabama. Only good things to come out of Cullman are the Britt brothers (Roll Tide!) and orange rolls from All Steak restaurant. That pla

ChiTownDoc
ChiTownDoc

You seem really pissed off for a nontrumper.  Just laugh at the trumpers, bro.  They’re really gullible dumbfucks who worship this orange blob…you know, people completely unlike yourself.  

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45728

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8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I like the idea of Trump self-pardoning himself.  At the very least, it's a shakier strategy than resigning and having Pence pardon him.

This is where I'm at.  There is at least a chance (should be 100%) that it won't work.  With Pence, it's 100% legal and would work.

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Gap03

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3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

This is where I'm at.  There is at least a chance (should be 100%) that it won't work.  With Pence, it's 100% legal and would work.

I wonder if Trump has already asked Pence to provide him with a signed pardon in advance of his resignation and Pence told him to get fucked.  After yesterday, I suspect Trump may realize that getting a pardon from Pence ain't a sure thing.

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pantone159

pantone159 719

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8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

At the very least, it's a shakier strategy than resigning and having Pence pardon him.

Pence is not pardoning anybody, not after what happened yesterday. There were plenty of people in that mob that are on social media record of saying he should hang. Meanwhile, Pence, and I think his family, were in the capitol for the vote ceremony. For the most part I have very very little respect for Pence, but even he is not a pushover enough to pardon Trump for putting his family into mortal danger.

 

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Dr. Teeth

Dr. Teeth 5845

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11 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I like the idea of Trump self-pardoning himself.  At the very least, it's a shakier strategy than resigning and having Pence pardon him.

I don't think he would pardon himself because he would be admitting he did something wrong.

The pardon letter would be funny though. "Even though I have never done anything wrong and been the perfect President. Some people have said the greatest President of all time. I am pardoning myself of all crimes that the evil Leftist, China loving people might say I did in the future. But we all know that I haven't committed these crimes. Even the Democrats don't think I have committed any crimes. But If I have committed crimes, then I hereby pardon me from those crimes. Even though I didn't commit them."

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Red Five

Red Five 40887

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2 minutes ago, Gap03 said:

I wonder if Trump has already asked Pence to provide him with a signed pardon in advance of his resignation and Pence told him to get fucked.  After yesterday, I suspect Trump may realize that getting a pardon from Pence ain't a sure thing.

Maybe he shouldn't have sent an angry mob to where his vice-president was working and then later told them that he loved them and that they're special. Mike may not have cared for that very much. 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45728

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Teeth said:

I don't think he would pardon himself because he would be admitting he did something wrong.

The pardon letter would be funny though. "Even though I have never done anything wrong and been the perfect President. Some people have said the greatest President of all time. I am pardoning myself of all crimes that the evil Leftist, China loving people might say I did in the future. But we all know that I haven't committed these crimes. Even the Democrats don't think I have committed any crimes. But If I have committed crimes, then I hereby pardon me from those crimes. Even though I didn't commit them."

This is probably extremely close to reality.

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33898

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8 minutes ago, Dr. Teeth said:

I don't think he would pardon himself because he would be admitting he did something wrong.

The pardon letter would be funny though. "Even though I have never done anything wrong and been the perfect President. Some people have said the greatest President of all time. I am pardoning myself of all crimes that the evil Leftist, China loving people might say I did in the future. But we all know that I haven't committed these crimes. Even the Democrats don't think I have committed any crimes. But If I have committed crimes, then I hereby pardon me from those crimes. Even though I didn't commit them."

the president posts here?

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46119

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8 minutes ago, Eastwood said:
11 minutes ago, Red Five said:
Doesn't a pardon come with an admission of guilt? How would that work with a self-pardon, and Trump of course claiming his innocence?
 

Correct. To be pardoned for a crime you have to admit that you committed said crime.

No, that can't be right.  Ford pardoned Nixon "I . . . have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974."

 

It's kinda hard to admit to having committed a crime that has not been specified.

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Eastwood

Eastwood 4394

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No, that can't be right.  Ford pardoned Nixon "I . . . have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974."
 
It's kinda hard to admit to having committed a crime that has not been specified.
According to Burdick v. United States, a pardon carries an imputation of guilt and that accepting one carries a confession of guilt. Doesn't need to be specific. Nixon was blatantly confessing that he was indeed a crook when he accepted the pardon.
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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 12994

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50 minutes ago, Dr. Teeth said:

I don't think he would pardon himself because he would be admitting he did something wrong.

The pardon letter would be funny though. "Even though I have never done anything wrong and been the perfect President. Some people have said the greatest President of all time. I am pardoning myself of all crimes that the evil Leftist, China loving people might say I did in the future. But we all know that I haven't committed these crimes. Even the Democrats don't think I have committed any crimes. But If I have committed crimes, then I hereby pardon me from those crimes. Even though I didn't commit them."

That was biggest mistake abut Trump is ascribing normal human emotions to him and assuming there was some reason behind his actions. There isn't, he's insane. #Stopthesteal isn't some grand strategy to delay the inevitable and steal money from people he truly believes he won the election and he won it huge. The man is a lunatic. 

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54416

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When Mike Ortiz arrived at the Texas Capitol shortly after noon on Wednesday, a cardboard mask resting atop his head like a flat-brim baseball cap, the attention of the protesters at the “Occupy the Capitol for Trump” rally was torn. About three hundred demonstrators were there, a much smaller crowd than the one simultaneously gathering in Washington, D.C., outside the U.S. Capitol. Just outside the south gate of the Texas Capitol, a man with a megaphone repeated a sort of daily affirmation for those intent on overturning the results of the presidential election: “Remember, whatever happens today, Donald Trump is still our president.” Nearby, a goateed man in a khaki jacket banged on an empty WindFresh detergent tub and accosted those few wearing face coverings with a “maskism is Naziism” chant. Right behind him, an elderly man in an N95 mask distributed pamphlets alleging that Joe Biden was conspiring with “the British financial oligarchy” to take over the United States.

A handful in the scattered crowd moved toward Ortiz as soon as he put on his mask, adorned with a blown-up photo of Donald Trump with a lopsided smile. Everyone was eager to snap selfies with Ortiz. He worked through a procession of photo ops with unmasked protesters, assuring one man that he was smiling beneath the mask.

Half an hour later I caught up with Ortiz and his wife, Amber Moses. The couple had traveled nearly a hundred miles to Austin from their home in Robinson, a Waco suburb, to participate in what she described as a “great awakening.” The crowd around them had gathered to protest in favor of Donald Trump as the U.S. Congress was set to convene to certify Joe Biden’s electoral college victory. Amber explained she was there to “fight for the Constitution,” which she alleged various swing states had violated in changing their election laws to allow expanded mail-in voting without the approval of their legislatures. (Notably, Texas, too, had expanded voting by executive order, a fact that Ortiz said should be evaluated by “constitutional lawyers.”) She said she would not stop fighting until the Constitution was upheld and Trump was sworn in, even if that took until April. “Bohemian Rhapsody” started playing on a nearby boombox: “Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?”

trump-ralley-texas-capitol-3
Pro-Trump protesters gather at the Texas Capitol.

Photograph by Ben Rowen

“I hope that we are able to fight this war with the Constitution and with love bombs, instead of real bombs,” Amber told me. “You’re seeing a love bomb go off right here.”

A group of armed men milled around nearby, inside the Capitol gate, holding signs reading “Kill a commie for mommy,” “Hang traitors,” and “Exterminate communists.” A car honked repeatedly as it sped down Eleventh Street, eliciting cheers; it was festooned with a “We Are All Kyle Rittenhouse” sign, a reference to the eighteen-year-old who shot three men at a Black Lives Matter protest in Kenosha, Wisconsin, this summer. (Rittenhouse says the shootings were in self-defense.)

Around 1:30 p.m., news from Washington spread through the rally. Pro-Trump protesters there had just breached the Capitol building. The House floor had been evacuated and members of Congress were escorted to safe rooms; one woman had been shot and killed. As Texas Department of Public Safety troopers closed off the Texas Capitol grounds, a man with a “Trump 2020” flag told those around him that “the fighting has begun.” Another protester assured those nearby that “we have boots on the ground in D.C.”

RELATED: These Texas Congressmen Fought off the Mob. Then They Voted With Trump.
Others seemed to pay their counterparts in Washington no mind, focusing their attention squarely on Joe Biden. “The Democratic party will do anything to get their power back,” Carl Ming, a protester from Rockdale, about an hour northeast of Austin, who brought a vintage Soviet semiautomatic rifle to the rally, told me. “This is the most extreme I’ve ever seen them go.”

Although allegations of voter fraud have repeatedly been disproven, those at the Capitol cited unsubstantiated rumors of dead Americans casting ballots, rigged voting machines, and election night tampering as incontrovertible evidence that Biden had stolen the race. One woman from Bastrop told me she’d accept the conclusions of a nonpartisan audit if it found that Biden still won after fraudulent ballots were tossed. No one else I spoke to would entertain the possibility that Biden had been victorious, repeatedly citing the crowd size at the rally as evidence of Trump’s widespread support.Ming said results needed to be audited, but when asked what he would do if an audit revealed Biden still won, he told me, “Then they would just prove they were cheating again.”

trump-ralley-texas-capitol-2
Pro-Trump flags.

Photograph by Ben Rowen

The storming of the U.S. Capitol had delayed the vote to certify the electoral college, so the protests ambled without real purpose, like the waning minutes of a high school pep rally. Steve Jackson, a Wichita Falls city councilman, had already cut out Mike Pence’s name from his “Trump, Pence” yard sign, because the vice president had said he did not have the constitutional authority to fulfill Trump’s request to discard the electoral college results. Jackson now placed his faith in divine intervention. “I just hope God will intervene and keep Donald J. Trump in there,” he said, adding, “I wish I had the answers.”

Others were keeping more extreme options on the table. Amber Moses Ortiz suggested that maybe Texas could secede. “That might come into play,” she said. “None of us are fortune tellers. But we have to fight for the Constitution.”

Jackson told me he’d “fight for Trump until the end,” adding, “I’m doing this for my kids and grandkids.”

Across the street, an elementary-school-aged boy whose parents had lent him their megaphone began a “four more years” chant. “Four hundred more years,” the man banging on the WindFresh tub shouted back.

 

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32426

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Forbes going in dry.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/randalllane/2021/01/07/a-truth-reckoning-why-were-holding-those-who-lied-for-trump-accountable/?sh=384ea25b5710

 

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Yesterday’s insurrection was rooted in lies. That a fair election was stolen. That a significant defeat was actually a landslide victory. That the world’s oldest democracy, ingeniously insulated via autonomous state voting regimens, is a rigged system. Such lies-upon-lies, repeated frequently and fervently, provided the kindling, the spark, the gasoline.

That Donald Trump devolved from commander-in-chief to liar-in-chief didn’t surprise Forbes: As we’ve chronicled early and often, for all his billions and Barnum-like abilities, he’s been shamelessly exaggerating and prevaricating to our faces for almost four decades. More astonishing: the number of people willing to lend credence to that obvious mendacity on his behalf.

 

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In this time of transition – and pain – reinvigorating democracy requires a reckoning. A truth reckoning. Starting with the people paid by the People to inform the People.

As someone in the business of facts, it’s been especially painful to watch President Trump’s press secretaries debase themselves. Yes, as with their political bosses, spins and omissions and exaggerations are part of the game. But ultimately in PR, core credibility is the coin of the realm.

 

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From Day One at the Trump White House, up has been down, yes has been no, failure has been success. Sean Spicer set the tone with the inauguration crowd size – the worst kind of whopper, as it demanded that people disbelieve their own eyes. The next day, Kellyanne Conway defended Spicer’s lie with a new term, “alternative facts.” Spicer’s successor, Sarah Huckabee Sanders lied at scale, from smearing those who accused Trump of sexual harassment to conjuring jobs statistics. Her successor, Stephanie Grisham, over the course of a year, never even held a press conference, though the BS continued unabated across friendly outlets. And finally, Kayleigh McEnany, Harvard Law graduate, a propaganda prodigy at 32 who makes smiling falsehood an art form. All of this magnified by journalists too often following an old playbook ill-prepared for an Orwellian communication era.

 

Spoiler

As American democracy rebounds, we need to return to a standard of truth when it comes to how the government communicates with the governed. The easiest way to do that, from where I sit, is to create repercussions for those who don’t follow the civic norms. Trump’s lawyers lie gleefully to the press and public, but those lies, magically, almost never made it into briefs and arguments – contempt, perjury and disbarment keep the professional standards high.

So what’s the parallel in the dark arts of communication? Simple: Don’t let the chronic liars cash in on their dishonesty. Press secretaries like Joe Lockhart, Ari Fleischer and Jay Carney, who left the White House with their reputations in various stages of intact, made millions taking their skills — and credibility — to corporate America. Trump’s liars don’t merit that same golden parachute. Let it be known to the business world: Hire any of Trump’s fellow fabulists above, and Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie. We’re going to scrutinize, double-check, investigate with the same skepticism we’d approach a Trump tweet. Want to ensure the world’s biggest business media brand approaches you as a potential funnel of disinformation? Then hire away.

This isn’t cancel culture, which is a societal blight. (There’s surely a nice living for each of these press secretaries on the true-believer circuit.) Nor is this politically motivated, as Forbes’ pro-entrepreneur, pro-growth worldview has generally placed it in the right-of-center camp over the past century — this standard needs to apply to liars from either party. It’s just a realization that, as Daniel Patrick Moynihan famously said, in a thriving democracy, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Our national reset starts there.

 

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Blotto

Blotto 23570

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48 minutes ago, pantone159 said:

Pence is not pardoning anybody, not after what happened yesterday. There were plenty of people in that mob that are on social media record of saying he should hang. Meanwhile, Pence, and I think his family, were in the capitol for the vote ceremony. For the most part I have very very little respect for Pence, but even he is not a pushover enough to pardon Trump for putting his family into mortal danger.

 

Lulz. I'm not saying Pence will definately pardon Trump, but I also can't rule it out. Anybody that has listened to that obsequious taint licker emasculate himself before Trump countless times knows Pence will do whatever he feels is in his best political interest. Self respect and backbone left the picture years ago.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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2 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

oof

 

Out of rep, but I'd give it if I could. It reminded me of the Democracy Index. Our ranking was shaky, but the QAnon SEC-SEC-SEC crowd just sent the US into a death spiral and no bowl season for years.

1 hour ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Forbes going in dry.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/randalllane/2021/01/07/a-truth-reckoning-why-were-holding-those-who-lied-for-trump-accountable/?sh=384ea25b5710

 

 

 

 

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As American democracy rebounds, we need to return to a standard of truth when it comes to how the government communicates with the governed. The easiest way to do that, from where I sit, is to create repercussions for those who don’t follow the civic norms. Trump’s lawyers lie gleefully to the press and public, but those lies, magically, almost never made it into briefs and arguments – contempt, perjury and disbarment keep the professional standards high.

So what’s the parallel in the dark arts of communication? Simple: Don’t let the chronic liars cash in on their dishonesty. Press secretaries like Joe Lockhart, Ari Fleischer and Jay Carney, who left the White House with their reputations in various stages of intact, made millions taking their skills — and credibility — to corporate America. Trump’s liars don’t merit that same golden parachute. Let it be known to the business world: Hire any of Trump’s fellow fabulists above, and Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie. We’re going to scrutinize, double-check, investigate with the same skepticism we’d approach a Trump tweet. Want to ensure the world’s biggest business media brand approaches you as a potential funnel of disinformation? Then hire away.

This isn’t cancel culture, which is a societal blight. (There’s surely a nice living for each of these press secretaries on the true-believer circuit.) Nor is this politically motivated, as Forbes’ pro-entrepreneur, pro-growth worldview has generally placed it in the right-of-center camp over the past century — this standard needs to apply to liars from either party. It’s just a realization that, as Daniel Patrick Moynihan famously said, in a thriving democracy, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Our national reset starts there.

 

Very good read. Thanks.

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

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3 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

No shit.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/us/politics/trump-self-pardon.html?action=click&module=Alert&pgtype=Homepage

 

 

 

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Mr. Trump has considered a range of pre-emptive pardons for family, including his three oldest children — Donald Jr., Eric Trump and Ivanka Trump — Ms. Trump’s husband, the senior White House adviser Jared Kushner, and for close associates like the president’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani. Mr. Trump has expressed concerns to advisers that a Biden Justice Department might investigate all of them.

Mr. Trump, who has told advisers how much he likes having the power to issue clemency, has for weeks solicited aides and allies for suggestions on whom to pardon. He has also offered pre-emptive pardons to advisers and administration officials. Many were taken them aback because they did not believe they were in legal jeopardy and that accepting his offer would be seen as an admission of guilt, according to the two people.

Presidential pardons apply only to federal law and provide no protection against state crimes. They would not apply to charges that could be brought by prosecutors in Manhattan investigating the Trump Organization’s finances.

The discussions between Mr. Trump and his aides about a self-pardon came before his pressure over the weekend on Georgia officials to help him try to overturn the elections results or his incitement of the riots at the Capitol. Trump allies believe that both episodes increased Mr. Trump’s criminal exposure.

As aides urged Mr. Trump to issue a strong condemnation on Wednesday and he rejected that advice, the White House counsel, Pat A. Cipollone, warned Mr. Trump that he could face legal exposure for the riot given that he had urged his supporters to march to the Capitol and “fight” beforehand, according to people briefed on the discussion. Mr. Trump had appeared to White House aides to be enjoying watching the scenes play out on television.

Beyond that, the extent of Mr. Trump’s criminal exposure is unclear. The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, outlined 10 instances in which Mr. Trump may have obstructed justice but declined to say whether Mr. Trump broke the law, citing legal and factual constraints of prosecuting a sitting president. Former Justice Department officials and legal experts said that several of the acts should be prosecuted.

 

Surprised he hasn't pardoned himself already. But then I guess he wants to make sure the crimes he commits over the next 2 weeks are covered too. 

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21469

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14 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Surprised he hasn't pardoned himself already. But then I guess he wants to make sure the crimes he commits over the next 2 weeks are covered too. 

He can just post date the check.  I GUARANTEE you that he has 3 or 4 pardons for himself lying around the residence.  Probably keeps one down at Maralago as well.

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ultimaton

ultimaton 2982

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Eastwood said:
2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:
No, that can't be right.  Ford pardoned Nixon "I . . . have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974."
 
It's kinda hard to admit to having committed a crime that has not been specified.

According to Burdick v. United States, a pardon carries an imputation of guilt and that accepting one carries a confession of guilt. Doesn't need to be specific. Nixon was blatantly confessing that he was indeed a crook when he accepted the pardon.

Like everything with Trump, that doesn't matter.

He'll sign whatever he needs to sign, then he'll release a stupid fucking video like yesterday or do another hate rally and say he's completely innocent -- maybe the most innocent president in history -- and that he wasn't going to pardon himself until a man came up to him, big burly man straight out of central casting, with tears in his eyes and said "Mr. President, if you don't pardon yourself, the country can never heal and the deep state won't stop until they punish you for making America great." So he's not doing it for himself, nope, his presidency was very beautiful and perfect, he's really doing it for *us* and he loves us and we're very special.

The rational among us obviously know that's bullshit and will be outraged, and the cult with either believe him or won't give a shit because of the lib tears. So, same as it's been for the last four years.

Edited by ultimaton
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Eastwood

Eastwood 4394

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If he pardons himself, does that mean he can’t run in 2024? 
 
If so, I say go for it....
If there is a 100% chance this asshole can never be president again, pardon away.
NY will get him anyway...
The interesting thing about the blanket self pardon is that accepting a pardon is also a waiver of the Fifth Amendment right of avoiding self-incriminating. So, if he issues a blanket pardon, there might be nothing to stop the DoJ from issuing subpoena after subpoena into perpetuity compelling him to spill anything and everything about anything and everything. Business associates, family members, foreign governments... And he would have to answer under the penalty of perjury, which is a brand new offense and one he could not pardon himself of.

Also, the pardon does nothing about the NY case. That's why I don't think a pardon is in order. He's fleeing the country and he might do so from Camp David where the authorities can't stop him on the tarmac.
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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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15 minutes ago, ultimaton said:

Like everything with Trump, that doesn't matter.

He'll sign whatever he needs to sign, then he'll release a stupid fucking video like yesterday or do another hate rally and say he's completely innocent -- maybe the most innocent president in history -- and that he wasn't going to pardon himself until a man came up to him, big burly man straight out of central casting, with tears in his eyes and said "Mr. President, if you don't pardon yourself, the country can never heal and the deep state won't stop until they punish you for making America great." So he's not doing it for himself, nope, his presidency was very beautiful and perfect, he's really doing it for *us* and he loves us and we're very special.

The rational among us obviously know that's bullshit and will be outraged, and the cult with either believe him or won't give a shit because of the lib tears. So, same as it's been for the last four years.

Are you saying "same as it ever was?" and he might find himself asking "well, how did I get here?"

 

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Blotto

Blotto 23570

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Trump ain't gonna run in 2024. Not only does he know he can’t win. He doesn't want the fucking job. He only wants the adulation/national attention. So he’ll talk about running, and go through the motions for a couple of years to keep the fundraising grift going, but he can get the adulation from the cult by riffing off the cuff on whatever bullshit media venture he cooks up. My guess is starts to position of his idiot spawn for the gig. Or better yet he’ll have an aneurysm on the shitter while hammering out tweets and be a vegetable for a couple of years. He can damage this country plenty, but it won't be as president.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45728

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16 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

The interesting thing about the blanket self pardon is that accepting a pardon is also a waiver of the Fifth Amendment right of avoiding self-incriminating. So, if he issues a blanket pardon, there might be nothing to stop the DoJ from issuing subpoena after subpoena into perpetuity compelling him to spill anything and everything about anything and everything. Business associates, family members, foreign governments... And he would have to answer under the penalty of perjury, which is a brand new offense and one he could not pardon himself of.

Also, the pardon does nothing about the NY case. That's why I don't think a pardon is in order. He's fleeing the country and he might do so from Camp David where the authorities can't stop him on the tarmac.

This seems very likely to me.

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