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A story about a pathetic man's downfall [34 Felony Convictions]

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31438

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, 'stache said:

It's looking like he did a lot of illegal and unethical shit, but no, he won't see prison, probably won't even get indicted. He's protected from any and all actual consequences. Just how it seems to be. Makes me sick.

Well, it's common knowledge that businesses keep two sets of books, one for the IRS and one that's accurate.

It looks like Trump may keep a third set of books for the public.   And because those are full of lies, it's possible that the IRS books are too, or some of the ones they gave to lenders.

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Beau Vine
Beau Vine

To be fair, President Trump’s four years in office weren’t so bad, except when when he incited an insurrection against the government, mismanaged a pandemic that killed nearly half a million Americans

Bama Chick
Bama Chick

Y’all about to get a great visual representation of Cullman, Alabama. Only good things to come out of Cullman are the Britt brothers (Roll Tide!) and orange rolls from All Steak restaurant. That pla

ChiTownDoc
ChiTownDoc

You seem really pissed off for a nontrumper.  Just laugh at the trumpers, bro.  They’re really gullible dumbfucks who worship this orange blob…you know, people completely unlike yourself.  

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Captainant

Captainant 27625

Posted
Posted
Just now, Hermanator said:

I doubt any of Trump's companies have an accurate set of books. They have one set that shows glowing profits and one set that shows horrendous losses. 

Which if that's the case - GREAT! Two different sets of books is more than enough to nail his ass for criminal fraud, especially if it's consistent across the breadth of his businesses 

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Willfully Horn

Willfully Horn 8000

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Posted
On 2/16/2022 at 5:37 PM, henrygandorf said:

still waiting to see a win/loss tally for candidates he's endorsed.  he insists it's near perfect but i don't really recall more than a couple wins (that were more likely in spite of him).  

I came up with 72% of Trump endorsed candidates winning their races. But, I’m not as confident with doing math in my head as I used to be.

 

https://ballotpedia.org/Endorsements_by_Donald_Trump

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Macanudo

Macanudo 12974

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27 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

 

TRUMP, DONALD J. V. THOMPSON, BENNIE G., ET AL. The motion of States United Democracy Center, et al. for leave to file a brief as amici curiae is granted. The petition for a writ of certiorari is denied.

 

What's the difference?

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14324

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8 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

TRUMP, DONALD J. V. THOMPSON, BENNIE G., ET AL. The motion of States United Democracy Center, et al. for leave to file a brief as amici curiae is granted. The petition for a writ of certiorari is denied.

 

What's the difference?

Counsel for amici will now get paid since their motion was granted?

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8712

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11 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

TRUMP, DONALD J. V. THOMPSON, BENNIE G., ET AL. The motion of States United Democracy Center, et al. for leave to file a brief as amici curiae is granted. The petition for a writ of certiorari is denied.

 

What's the difference?

“States United Democracy Center” was granted the ability to file a “friend of the court” brief, but the Court will not hear the case, leaving the underlying ruling in place. 

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54205

Posted
Posted

Probably been discussed here, but I thought this was a really helpful summary:

Quote

Donald Trump has survived multiple investigations by following the same playbook: blasting them as “witch hunts” and refusing to testify under oath. His strategy backfired last week, as a New York state judge ordered him and two of his children to sit for depositions in 21 days.

It’s not unusual for people who are under investigation to face battles on multiple fronts — civil and criminal. When I was a federal prosecutor investigating complex financial crimes, I often investigated people who were also under investigation by civil authorities, like the Securities and Exchange Commission. In private practice, I have represented people who faced criminal indictments and civil cases brought by regulators at the same time.

The Trump Organization has been under investigation jointly by New York Attorney General Letitia James and the office of the Manhattan District Attorney for, in James’ words, allegedly using “fraudulent or misleading” valuations on their real estate to get loans and tax benefits. James issued subpoenas in December for Trump and Ivanka and Donald Jr. to give depositions in her civil investigation.

But Trump is not acting like someone usually does when they’re in that situation. Anyone facing a criminal investigation can exercise their Fifth Amendment right not to answer questions, and it won’t be held against them or even revealed to the jury. But in a civil case, the judge can tell the jury to draw an “adverse inference” that your answers would have been harmful to you. So the priority for anyone facing parallel criminal and civil investigations is to make sure the civil investigation is delayed until after the criminal case is wrapped up.

Obviously, that’s easier said than done. But judges will usually grant a “stay” that pauses the civil case if it looks like the criminal case is likely to result in an indictment of the defendant. Because no one but the prosecutors themselves know exactly what they’re up to, savvy defense attorneys usually make it seem like a criminal indictment is on the horizon. It might make a client’s situation seem more dire, but it’s textbook legal strategy in a situation like this.

It’s not as hard to do as you’d think, even in this case. After all, the Trump Organization’s chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg, is under indictment. Trump’s legal team could have weaved together facts — some known by the public, but many not known, such as requests for interviews or subpoenas for documents — that suggested that the Manhattan District Attorney’s office was working towards a criminal indictment of Trump for the same subject matter under investigation by James.

But they didn’t do that. Maybe it was Trump’s ego or his insistence that his lawyers make the question of the deposition a political battle rather than a legal one. But while Trump’s attorneys argued that James was using the civil investigation to develop evidence that could be used against Trump in a criminal case, they downplayed his potential criminal liability. Alan Futerfas, a lawyer for Ivanka and Donald Trump Jr., said during the court hearing that he had no reason to believe that either of the Trump children are targets of the district attorney’s criminal investigation. Alina Habba, an attorney for Trump, spent much of her time arguing that James was pursuing a “vendetta against Donald Trump and his family to take him down” for her own political gain.

That narrative might play well on Fox News or on Twitter, but it’s not surprising that this approach did not persuade a judge who undoubtedly has come across parallel criminal and civil investigations throughout his career. Trump’s lawyers might argue that James was doing something outside the box by moving forward with a civil investigation of potential fraud while a criminal probe was underway. But as long as there is a proper basis for the civil investigation, the judge’s role is to weigh the potential of impairing the defendant’s Fifth Amendment right against the harm caused by pausing the civil investigation.

By making it sound like Trump wasn’t going to face an indictment anytime soon, Trump’s team made this balancing act easy for the judge. If no indictment is forthcoming, the Fifth Amendment issue is more remote. A judge won’t impose significant delays in a civil case based on speculation about a criminal case. Otherwise, every civil case in this context would be delayed indefinitely.

“For [James] not to have investigated the original respondents, and not to have subpoenaed the new Trump respondents, would have been a blatant dereliction of duty (and would have broken an oft-repeated campaign promise),” Judge Arthur Engoron wrote.

“Indeed, the impetus for the investigation was not personal animus, not racial or ethnic or other discrimination, not campaign promises, but was sworn congressional testimony by former Trump associate Michael Cohen that respondents were ‘cooking the books.’”

So now Trump is between a rock and a hard place. If he sits for this deposition and answers questions under oath, his words can and will be used against him by the Manhattan DA and potentially other criminal prosecutors. But if he takes the Fifth, that can be used against him in the civil case because the judge can instruct the jury to draw an “adverse inference” against him.

Trump can appeal the judge’s ruling, but unless he changes his strategy, the appeal is unlikely to change the predicament he’s in. If Trump is willing to make it seem like he has significant criminal liability and that an indictment is likely, that could change things. But there is no reason to believe he will do that.

All signs suggest that the Trump (and his son and daughter) will take the Fifth and blame James for having to do so. That might save face for them for now. But in the long run, it will hurt their position if her investigation results in a civil case against them. Right now, it looks like that is a very distinct possibility.
 

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/21/how-donald-trump-played-himself-00010409

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BehoId, The Underminer!

BehoId, The Underminer! 11669

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Macanudo said:

TRUMP, DONALD J. V. THOMPSON, BENNIE G., ET AL. The motion of States United Democracy Center, et al. for leave to file a brief as amici curiae is granted. The petition for a writ of certiorari is denied.

 

What's the difference?

 

1 hour ago, Macanudo said:

OK, explain like I'm 5.    What good is a friend of the court brief?

 

"thanks for the brief. we considered it in denying cert."

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31438

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

It makes arguments for one side or the other, in addition to what the actual attorneys argue. 

Or sometimes neither side or something more neutrai.  It doesn't represent either side to a dispute, although it frequently takes one side or the other.

Depending on the credibility of the amicus (friend), they can be pretty persuasive.

Also, that's an order list so it's actually two separate orders entered on the same day by the Court.  Here's the whole docket https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/21-932.html

 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31438

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15 hours ago, Hermanator said:

Does the Supreme Court vote on whether to grant or deny cert? Bet Trump is cursing the rapey judge and whatever that chick judge he appointed's name is. Don't give enough of a shit to remember the names

Four of nine justices must agree to grant certiorari.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31438

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Posted
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Four of nine justices must agree to grant certiorari.

Well, executive privilege isn't a wholly partisan issue.

But, the best part is that the shadow docket resolved this, effectively, and rarely would the Court grant certiorari to consider a preliminary injunction issue.  And, because it was over at the preliminary injunction stage, it will never reach "the merits," so there will never be a full review.  At least not postured like this.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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I literally feel dumber for having read that.  And I read it in his voice with the 'almost clapping' hand gesture thing he does down at his hips for emphasis.  

Fucking-A.  I mean, read the shit about Biden, Covid, stolen elections.  It's ridiculous, but's the same shit.  But listening too him breakdown Putin for us like some kind of psyops expert?  I'd be laughing if it was so fucking scary.

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33859

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Lobo said:

I literally feel dumber for having read that.  And I read it in his voice with the 'almost clapping' hand gesture thing he does down at his hips for emphasis.  

Fucking-A.  I mean, read the shit about Biden, Covid, stolen elections.  It's ridiculous, but's the same shit.  But listening too him breakdown Putin for us like some kind of psyops expert?  I'd be laughing if it was so fucking scary.

and yet some people will read that while also reading Biden's words and concluding he's the one mentally in decline, not TFG.

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Blotto

Blotto 23487

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

wow. what a terrible, depressing ride that was

Weapons grade stupidity. And the older GQP voters that use to lionize Reagan for standing up to Russia/Communism will all now be lining up behind Russia, as Putin's US propaganda machine headed by dotard/fox do what they are told. 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted

#37.  "They want to get a name, right? You know, they want a name, like 'tweet.' Okay, tweet. They'd like it to be five letters. So they always have an X. You know, put an X in front because -- so they gone through all these crazy names that nobody..."

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, jokey Lobo here.  I started skimming faster towards the end of the list.  So I didn't really understand what this quote was in reference to and I honestly thought it was Trump referring to how he plays Wordle.  And I wasn't remotely surprised by the fact that he starts his five words with the letter 'X', because of course he does.  I mean, I read it more carefully now, but I really thought he was talking about Wordle.  This fucking simulation...

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105057

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

and yet some people will read that while also reading Biden's words and concluding he's the one mentally in decline, not TFG.

This.  That was unhinged, psychotic, and utterly disconnected from reality......and his fanbois will just say "BIDEN COGNITIVE DECLINE!" as they cheer for more Trump.

The foundational quality of being a GQP supporter is a massive dose of cognitive dissonance.  It is essential.

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33859

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This.  That was unhinged, psychotic, and utterly disconnected from reality......and his fanbois will just say "BIDEN COGNITIVE DECLINE!" as they cheer for more Trump.

The foundational quality of being a GQP supporter is a massive dose of cognitive dissonance.  It is essential.

"he talks just like us!" yeah, no shit. that's not a good thing

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29900

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Posted
On 2/21/2022 at 11:43 AM, 'stache said:

Okay. I'll believe it when  I see it (and I truly hope it happens).

I actually believe this is how everone feels. I don't know what will happen, and the constant urge to announce "it ain't happenin'" or whatever gets enormously tiresome. It seems to bleed from the football board where all guesses are presented as fact, and you're a fool if you believe otherwise.

This shit against Trump is piling up. A GOP Congress can't save him from the state prosecutions of Georgia and New York. Something else might save him, but I'm thinking his only viable strategy is to delay endlessly using the courts as he has done for decades.

"See, dumbass RomaVicta is predicting Trump'll go to jail." No, he's not.

I'm not going after anyone in particular  here. Maybe it's part of my own crotchetiness. I don't make absolute statements about the future; I'm surprised so many other people insist upon it. It's not a matter of hope, it's more of a philosophical reluctance to declare something a fact.

Back to the Growlery for me.

 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105057

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8 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I actually believe this is how everone feels. I don't know what will happen, and the constant urge to announce "it ain't happenin'" or whatever gets enormously tiresome. It seems to bleed from the football board where all guesses are presented as fact, and you're a fool if you believe otherwise.

This shit against Trump is piling up. A GOP Congress can't save him from the state prosecutions of Georgia and New York. Something else might save him, but I'm thinking his only viable strategy is to delay endlessly using the courts as he has done for decades.

"See, dumbass RomaVicta is predicting Trump'll go to jail." No, he's not.

I'm not going after anyone in particular  here. Maybe it's part of my own crotchetiness. I don't make absolute statements about the future; I'm surprised so many other people insist upon it. It's not a matter of hope, it's more of a philosophical reluctance to declare something a fact.

Back to the Growlery for me.

 

Here's your problem, it's these two things:

1 -- you are predicting that something good, right, and just will happen.

2 -- good, right, and just shit almost never happens anymore.  It is incompatible with this timeline.

 

I'll believe that this ship has turned around when I actually see real progress in a positive direction.  Until then, everything is wishcasting.

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Blotto

Blotto 23487

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

This shit against Trump is piling up. A GOP Congress can't save him from the state prosecutions of Georgia and New York. Something else might save him, but I'm thinking his only viable strategy is to delay endlessly using the courts as he has done for decades.

 

We're in unchartered territory here. I never thought I would see a good 30-40% of congress try and undermine our democratic process, but here we are. The GOP is all about state power until it inconveniences their narrative. I hear your point about absolutes and the future, but since the orange man has come on the scene, the GOP congressional branch has repeatedly proven they are willing to facilitate some pretty sketchy shit. If they want to protect Trump (and they do), who knows what new congressional powers they can cook up. Maybe the Supremes do their job, maybe they dont. Rule #1: Trump = GOP. Work backwards from there. 

Yeah, I know how crazy that sounds. Lot of crazy shit going on these days.

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Red Five

Red Five 40827

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Posted
2 hours ago, Blotto said:

Weapons grade stupidity. And the older GQP voters that use to lionize Reagan for standing up to Russia/Communism will all now be lining up behind Russia, as Putin's US propaganda machine headed by dotard/fox do what they are told. 

I like how he references "the peacekeepers". Yeah literally no one believes that. So either he is the stupidest person on earth or he is knowingly pushing Russian propaganda that Putin can barely even get out with a straight face. Probably some combination of both.

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ndawg

ndawg 1242

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40 minutes ago, Red Five said:

I like how he references "the peacekeepers". Yeah literally no one believes that. So either he is the stupidest person on earth or he is knowingly pushing Russian propaganda that Putin can barely even get out with a straight face. Probably some combination of both.

Trump supporters love to support outlandish, preposterous statements, and for good reason. The rest of us balk at them, and wonder, "how could anyone be so stupid as to believe this bullshit?" It's not about "truth." It's never been about truth.

What Trump is doing with this "peacekeepers" bit is speaking in a code. It's a very crude code, of course, but it gets the job done. Allow me to break the code:

"It's okay to engage in violent offenses if you claim that it is the victim who is in fact violent, and you're violating them to keep the peace."

Trump's supporters want to engage in violence. When it comes to harming people, specifically people of color, like the ones south of our border, these people are super down. Trump knows this and does his best to let them know he's got their violent interests in mind whenever he can. So when they share Trump's support for Putin's "peacekeeping" initiative, they're signalling to one another their mutual desire to apply this same rationale to justify their violence. They love the idea, for instance, of showing up to polls in minority communities just to brandish their guns menacingly. "Just doing my patriotic duty to protect the elections," they'll say, in another form of this same code. Here's another statement that seems preposterous to all of us evaluating through the lens of truth: "Jan 6th was legitimate political discourse." It's a code. Again, nothing sophisticated -- I promise there are no laser beams shooting out of my eyes. It's just an in-crowd's shared use of language by to deliberately distort the truth to anyone from the outside looking in. They're going to use violence to get what they want, and then they're going to use their code language to provide cover and give it a veneer of normalcy. Just like Putin is doing now.

So Trump isn't just polishing Putin's knob here. Neither is Tucker Carlson. This isn't just about these people supporting Putin/Russia. This is also about everyone on board the Trump train uniting around the blueprint for how they're going to try to get away with violence in the United States. Trump has taken everything he's learned in five decades of getting away with white collar crimes, and wrapped it all in a gift for his army of ignorant, hateful idiots. Perfectly cool. Perfectly normal.

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8712

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Posted
4 minutes ago, ndawg said:

Trump supporters love to support outlandish, preposterous statements, and for good reason. The rest of us balk at them, and wonder, "how could anyone be so stupid as to believe this bullshit?" It's not about "truth." It's never been about truth.

What Trump is doing with this "peacekeepers" bit is speaking in a code. It's a very crude code, of course, but it gets the job done. Allow me to break the code:

"It's okay to engage in violent offenses if you claim that it is the victim who is in fact violent, and you're violating them to keep the peace."

Trump's supporters want to engage in violence. When it comes to harming people, specifically people of color, like the ones south of our border, these people are super down. Trump knows this and does his best to let them know he's got their violent interests in mind whenever he can. So when they share Trump's support for Putin's "peacekeeping" initiative, they're signalling to one another their mutual desire to apply this same rationale to justify their violence. They love the idea, for instance, of showing up to polls in minority communities just to brandish their guns menacingly. "Just doing my patriotic duty to protect the elections," they'll say, in another form of this same code. Here's another statement that seems preposterous to all of us evaluating through the lens of truth: "Jan 6th was legitimate political discourse." It's a code. Again, nothing sophisticated -- I promise there are no laser beams shooting out of my eyes. It's just an in-crowd's shared use of language by to deliberately distort the truth to anyone from the outside looking in. They're going to use violence to get what they want, and they're going to use their code language to provide cover and give it a veneer of normalcy.

So Trump isn't just polishing Putin's knob here. Neither is Tucker Carlson. This isn't just about these people supporting Putin/Russia. This is also about everyone on board the Trump train uniting around the blueprint for how they're going to try to get away with violence in the United States. Trump has taken everything he's learned in five decades of getting away with white collar crimes, and wrapped it all in a gift for his army of ignorant, hateful idiots. Perfectly cool. Perfectly normal.

I wish people would stop crediting Trump with well thought out and nefarious plans - general malice and stupidity are really what’s going on. 

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ndawg

ndawg 1242

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Posted
1 minute ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I wish people would stop crediting Trump with well thought out and nefarious plans - general malice and stupidity are really what’s going on. 

Yes, and I hope my post didn't come across that way. Trump and his supporters have had zero psychological development past early adolescence. They're morons, but they like a lot of the same things. For example, engaging in violence and then blaming the victim. (i.e. DARVO) Thus, regardless of whether they actually believe these preposterous absurdities, I believe they enjoy them, and can't wait to employ them. And ultimately, I think we'll be the fools in the end if we fixate on how stupid anyone would have to be to believe these ridiculous things Trump says. It's far more useful for us to consider that their support for what Putin is doing is a tell that they'd like to also do the same thing.

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38129

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Posted
37 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

What a convenient development for the Trumps, and right after they were compelled to give testimony in the State’s civil suit… I’m sure nothing sketchy is going on and the timing is coincidental 

I'm shocked that Trump will not be facing consequences. Shocked. 

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28774

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Blotto said:

Weapons grade stupidity. And the older GQP voters that use to lionize Reagan for standing up to Russia/Communism will all now be lining up behind Russia, as Putin's US propaganda machine headed by dotard/fox do what they are told. 

It proves that they never had any actual standards or values or fixed principles of any kind. They’re sports fans. They picked the team with the elephant on their jersey and all objectivity went out the window. Elephant good, donkey bad. That’s the extent of their political thought. 

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