A story about a pathetic man's downfall [34 Felony Convictions]

[Biff Tannen 45688]

1 hour ago, Chopper said:

 So what's your theory for why DOJ would get a judge to sign off on a search warrant covering not just records that should have been returned under the Presidential Records Act, but allowed the gov't to conduct the search under specific statutes dealing with obstruction of justice and stealing/mishandling classified information? If it were simply because they wanted the return of  govt. records the PRA would have been more than sufficient, would it not? Another reason why I believe pretty strongly an indictment is coming.

No, I 100% hope you are right.  But if you're wrong, well, my friends, it's been a good run.  Kinda.

[tx 3 putt 76958]

2 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

 r/iamverybadass

He invited them to kick down his door.  Mission accomplished.

but FREEDOM OF SPEECH !!!!!

[Surly Bevo 24908]

2 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

What’s to stop him from heading to a private strip and stepping on a private jet headed to Moscow ?

Probably nothing, and as I have said previously that might be the best outcome....

[TexArcher 37774]

1 hour ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Go fuck yourself, fatass.

[RomaVicta 29908]

14 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

I think this is hyperbole.  Half the country isn't made of Trumpist nuts with zero critical thinking skills. The Trumpists aren't all supporting Russia in a war against NATO.  For one thing, there is no war between Russia and NATO. Let's keep it real.

C'mon, man. No, it's not half the country but it's an astonishingly large plurality.

(I would have preferred the gif without the slap, btw.)

[Biff Tannen 45688]

1 hour ago, Ojo Rojo said:

Some crazy, scary and disappointing shit has happened, but we're still here. Things are still working more or less the way they are supposed to. Let's keep going.

Greg Abbott voter?

['stache 21816]

14 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

I think this is hyperbole.  Half the country isn't made of Trumpist nuts with zero critical thinking skills. The Trumpists aren't all supporting Russia in a war against NATO.  For one thing, there is no war between Russia and NATO. Let's keep it real.

As long as the current republican party is still winning elections it's not hyperbole. How many national republicans are currently willing to outright say trump is an idiot, a traitor, and a danger to democracy? Like maybe 5? Have you seen the official GOP twitter accounts? They're full on parroting what the orange menace is saying about the "raid" and indictments. You know who can stop that? Elected republicans. Yet they are not. At most, some are saying "let this play out" or "I don't like his approach but he's still better than the SOCIALISTS blah blah blah." Even putting trump aside for a second, any republican who uses the word socialist is playing the same game. They've made that word a boogieman with no meaning. That alone signals the serious problem. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Greg Abbott voter?

Slow your roll, man!

[gyroprotagonist 2592]

17 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Adam Bies: 'I will not spend one second of my life in their custody.'"

Narrator: yeah......about that

but he probably got 10s of likes for that post...winning!

[Gil Bang 25960]

https://twitter.com/KatiePhang/status/1559292750805274633

 

[RDCanecutter 26445]

8 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

What’s to stop him from heading to a private strip and stepping on a private jet headed to Avignon, and setting up a rival presidency?

FIXATVS TIBI EST. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

25 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

I think this is hyperbole.  Half the country isn't made of Trumpist nuts with zero critical thinking skills. The Trumpists aren't all supporting Russia in a war against NATO.  For one thing, there is no war between Russia and NATO. Let's keep it real.

It's not entirely hyperbole.  There are a "percentage" of that half that have zero critical thinking skills, and it's at least 30%.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33871]

So when do they dig up Ivana?

[DaysOff 7951]

 
 

All of our passports are government property.

[Jiggy-Z 3432]

4 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

All of our passports are government property.

All of your passports are belong to US.

[Chad Fuck 17682]

1 minute ago, Jiggy-Z said:

All of your passports are belong to US.

This is good.

[CooterBrown 18013]

Wouldn’t this be viewable (not redacted) in the inventory?
also, 2 non-expired passports?

A black diplomatic passport and a regular personal passport.

['stache 21816]

12 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

It's not entirely hyperbole.  There are a "percentage" of that half that have zero critical thinking skills, and it's at least 30%.

It's way more than 30%, and the rest of them are more than willing to stoke the fires to take advantage of these gullible pieces of shit to win elections. 

[Ojo Rojo 1965]

13 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

It's not entirely hyperbole.  There are a "percentage" of that half that have zero critical thinking skills, and it's at least 30%.

That's sort of what hyperbole is - saying "half" when it's really more like 30%.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

2 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

That's sort of what hyperbole is - saying "half" when it's really more like 30%.

Lol good point.   I’ve fucked up some recipes in my time by using hyperbole. If .5 tsp of baking powder is good, 1/3 tsp should do it.  Although normally I do it in reverse. 

[TexasEd 8067]

Going to edit a few of these quotes to limit to Gravy Seals and Militias

  

7 hours ago, SizzleChest said:

This was also really about letting Trump know the DOJ has CIs on the inside at MAL.  And the bit about fingerprints on the docs is only going to ramp up pressure to getting others in Trumpworld to flip.  Playing this out in the media was always going to be a short-term strategy for Trump.  Let Trump, his minions, lawyers, geeks, dipwads, etc. out themselves. And the open, online video threats from the Gravy Seals and Meal Team Six is just going to result in those people getting a knock on their door.  What they do after that is up to them.  Most of them will likely shut up and go underground, but with the knowledge their movements will be heavily monitored.

The following refers to the police limiting the efforts of fascist militias

6 hours ago, Seasick Sailor said:

Nor do they have any interest in doing so. They are the fascist.  

Does anyone know what venue this case would have to be tried in? If it's in Florida, then the above may be true, but if it's D.C., it shouldn't be too hard to impanel a jury that doesn't include at least hard-core Trump supporters. 

 

6 hours ago, Tuco said:

I'll take the second paragraph first.  That's like Yogi saying "Nobody goes there anymore because it's too crowded."  Yes, people regularly completely destroy their lives over stupid shit. And yet it keeps happening.  

As far as Ricky Shiffer, there is stupid and there is completely crazy. The dude basically make a social media post and then jumped in his car thinking others would join him. That's just fucking crazy.  I don't think you could do that on an ISIS Facebook group and expect any success.

Keep in mind, this is not some hypothetical about the law enforcement helping "gravy seals."  It already happens.  Ahmaud Arbery.  Were the cops and the prosecutor worried about their pensions when they signed off on the self-defense?  Not in the slightest.  And, until one of the shitstains started showing videos of the murder, their pensions were safe.  Local cops are run by local governments, as designated by the local populations.  And local populations in rural America are racist as fuck.  

So, if we are talking about the sheriff's office grabbing their shotguns and taking the FBI on, I agree that's unlikely.  If we are talking about local LE supporting violent actions of right-wing extremists against minorities, it's already happening.  I think it is reasonable to expect that it could extent to protecting militia groups and covering up violence on Dems/liberal activists and organizers (think 60's in the South).  And, when some of the right wing militias are arrested, we'll get the Scooby Doo style reveal of the law enforcement when they take off the hoods.  

 

 

The BIG difference between 2017-2020 and now is that the right wing terror groups are back on the active watch list as opposed to part of the Trump machine.  No-one in the Biden administration is going to tell the guys from Charlottesville that there were good people on both sides or call on the Proud Boys to stand by.

We are seeing those groups infiltrated and taken down on their way to protests and counter-protests.  The locals may not be protecting civil rights of people on the left but the Feds are watching.  There are enough of the militia leaders going to jail over 1/6 with a few getting the 8 year sentences.

Hopefully there is more to come as far as taking down these groups from the inside.

['stache 21816]

3 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

That's sort of what hyperbole is - saying "half" when it's really more like 30%.

What about the rest of them that are playing along be ensure they don't lose those 30% (which again is way, way more than that?). I think they are arguably worse than the brainless zombies who might actually believe the lies. The vast majority of elected republicans know they are lies. They know they are dangerous. They know that judges and FBI agents are being targeted. And yet they still continue to say that it's a "witchhunt" and that executing valid search warrants against the very corrupt ex-president is problematic. When elected officials refuse to put their foot down about obvious lies and dangerous rhetoric and continue to win elections, and it works, there is simply no coming back.

[Ojo Rojo 1965]

31 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

C'mon, man. No, it's not half the country but it's an astonishingly large plurality.

(I would have preferred the gif without the slap, btw.)

It's too many; I fully agree with that.  Exactly what group we're talking about and exactly how many of them there are is up for discussion.  But whether it's 50% or 30% or 25% matters.

30 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Greg Abbott voter?

Uh, no.

28 minutes ago, 'stache said:

As long as the current republican party is still winning elections it's not hyperbole. How many national republicans are currently willing to outright say trump is an idiot, a traitor, and a danger to democracy? Like maybe 5? Have you seen the official GOP twitter accounts? They're full on parroting what the orange menace is saying about the "raid" and indictments. You know who can stop that? Elected republicans. Yet they are not. At most, some are saying "let this play out" or "I don't like his approach but he's still better than the SOCIALISTS blah blah blah." Even putting trump aside for a second, any republican who uses the word socialist is playing the same game. They've made that word a boogieman with no meaning. That alone signals the serious problem. 

Republicans are not monolithic.  They are not all Trumptards without brains.  I would say most R members of Congress probably know exactly what Trump is. The problem is that politics dictates that they need Trump voters to win, so they court them.  Republicans would be committing political seppuku if they disavow Trump at the national level.

[Dahobbs 17534]

Just now, Ojo Rojo said:

 Republicans would be committing political seppuku if they disavow Trump at the national level.

I'd argue that actually committing seppuku would be the most honorable thing they could do. 

[WhatTheBuck 28783]

51 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Adam Bies: 'I will not spend one second of my life in their custody.'"

Narrator: yeah......about that

He was right. It will be a lot more than one second.

['stache 21816]

2 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

It's too many; I fully agree with that.  Exactly what group we're talking about and exactly how many of them there are is up for discussion.  But whether it's 50% or 30% or 25% matters.

Uh, no.

Republicans are not monolithic.  They are not all Trumptards without brains.  I would say most R members of Congress probably know exactly what Trump is. The problem is that politics dictates that they need Trump voters to win, so they court them.  Republicans would be committing political seppuku if they disavow Trump at the national level.

And hence the problem, regardless of what percent are truly trump cultists. They are literally okay with mobs attacking the capitol looking to murder democrats and "RINOs." They're now okay that judges and fbi agents are being targeted for assignation. If they had a single ounce of morality they'd change the rhetoric even if it might be a little harder to win elections, and yet none of them (statistically) are doing it, and are in fact doing the opposite. The judge is receiving death threats against not only himself but his family. The Jan. 6 commission literally played audio of election officials (mostly republicans themselves) being told that their young kids would be murdered for refusing to overturn their state elections for Biden. They. Don't. Care. If a few judges and low-level republicans are living in fear and might actually die, so what, it would be "political seppeku" to dare change the dialogue. Their power is more important than peoples' lives. Again, my point is that there's no turning back from this.

[Ojo Rojo 1965]

3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

What about the rest of them that are playing along be ensure they don't lose those 30% (which again is way, way more than that?). I think they are arguably worse than the brainless zombies who might actually believe the lies. The vast majority of elected republicans know they are lies. They know they are dangerous. They know that judges and FBI agents are being targeted. And yet they still continue to say that it's a "witchhunt" and that executing valid search warrants against the very corrupt ex-president is problematic. When elected officials refuse to put their foot down about obvious lies and dangerous rhetoric and continue to win elections, and it works, there is simply no coming back.

You replied before I was done with my last post.  My reply to 'stache is almost exactly what you are saying. We are at a moment in time where a certain set of policies, which are very bad for the country as a whole, are winning or close to winning important elections. The guy who has no shame, no conscience and is 100% completely and totally self-centered became president because he cradled the balls, stroked the shaft, worked the pipe and swallowed the gravy of those heinous policies. Others are following his example. He lost in 2020. If there is no resurgence in 2024 we've seen the high water mark.

[Ojo Rojo 1965]

2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

And hence the problem, regardless of what percent are truly trump cultists. They are literally okay with mobs attacking the capitol looking to murder democrats and "RINOs." They're now okay that judges and fbi agents are being targeted for assignation. If they had a single ounce of morality they'd change the rhetoric even if it might be a little harder to win elections, and yet none of them (statistically) are doing it, and are in fact doing the opposite. The judge is receiving death threats against not only himself but his family. The Jan. 6 commission literally played audio of election officials (mostly republicans themselves) being told that their young kids would be murdered for refusing to overturn their state elections for Biden. They. Don't. Care. If a few judges and low-level republicans are living in fear and might actually die, so what, it would be "political seppeku" to dare change the dialogue. Their power is more important than peoples' lives. Again, my point is that there's no turning back from this.

I still think you are overstating a bit. Nevertheless, if Republicans all of a sudden just say, "Fuck Trump!" and they lose all of his supporters - that is political suicide.  They are not going to do it. Would that be the right and moral thing to do?  Would it be better for our country? Yes! Yes! Fuck yes!  And THAT is the problem - politics, what we want collectively, is not lining up with what is good for us.

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

6 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

I still think you are overstating a bit. Nevertheless, if Republicans all of a sudden just say, "Fuck Trump!" and they lose all of his supporters - that is political suicide.  They are not going to do it. Would that be the right and moral thing to do?  Would it be better for our country? Yes! Yes! Fuck yes!  And THAT is the problem - politics, what we want collectively, is not lining up with what is good for us.

Yep.  See Democrats throwing money at Trumptard candidates in primaries.  Pathetic. Still a game to many politicians…

[TwiceHorn 31475]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Not so much the lower grades as the President himself. I tend to have an expansive view of what the executive can do. The hypothetical march out of the briefing room to tell the American people something he decided is important is, to my non-legal mind, perfectly fair use of executive power. 
 

But what’s infuriating is that this isn’t good faith and arguments like “he just has to think it” or “by the very act of mishandling it, he declassified it” might be persuasive in court, they are truly garbage from a reality standpoint. Here’s how you know— any schmuck who shared the same damn information or a different copy of the stuff between Inauguration Day and Friday would have gone down hard. Trumps lawyers wouldn’t swoop in to say “hey wait, that stuff got declassified when we left the White House and took it to MAL.” They wanted it because it was valuable and it was (is) valuable because it was (is) highly classified. 

Oh I agree.  First it assumes the President is a good-faith actor with the interest of the country foremost.

And, I think as a factual matter, showing that he declassified something should require more than a thought or action, certainly proof of it as a legal defense.

[TwiceHorn 31475]

8 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

I still think you are overstating a bit. Nevertheless, if Republicans all of a sudden just say, "Fuck Trump!" and they lose all of his supporters - that is political suicide.  They are not going to do it. Would that be the right and moral thing to do?  Would it be better for our country? Yes! Yes! Fuck yes!  And THAT is the problem - politics, what we want collectively, is not lining up with what is good for us.

Yes, my ultimate quarrel with politics and politicians in this country.  Their only motivation seems to be political expedience.

Trump is actually worse, though, because self-interest "trumps" even political expedience.

['stache 21816]

16 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

I still think you are overstating a bit. Nevertheless, if Republicans all of a sudden just say, "Fuck Trump!" and they lose all of his supporters - that is political suicide.  They are not going to do it. Would that be the right and moral thing to do?  Would it be better for our country? Yes! Yes! Fuck yes!  And THAT is the problem - politics, what we want collectively, is not lining up with what is good for us.

I think you're understating the actual implications of this problem and implying that this is the same as other forms of unpleasant politics. They don't even need to say "fuck trump" they could just say to let the system play itself out and try to change the subject. They have a million other boogie man cards to play with these morons. But they press the easiest path that have honest people being harassed and living in fear for themselves and their families. If they have refused to do it now, there's nothing near or short term that will change this dynamic.

Edited August 15, 2022 by 'stache

[Chooky 13307]

And to top it all off, the surrounding sidewalks at Mar-A-Lago are about to be covered in MAGA doo doo.

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Chooky

[The Dog 44053]

[Bama Chick 28596]

And hence the problem, regardless of what percent are truly trump cultists. They are literally okay with mobs attacking the capitol looking to murder democrats and "RINOs." They're now okay that judges and fbi agents are being targeted for assignation. If they had a single ounce of morality they'd change the rhetoric even if it might be a little harder to win elections, and yet none of them (statistically) are doing it, and are in fact doing the opposite. The judge is receiving death threats against not only himself but his family. The Jan. 6 commission literally played audio of election officials (mostly republicans themselves) being told that their young kids would be murdered for refusing to overturn their state elections for Biden. They. Don't. Care. If a few judges and low-level republicans are living in fear and might actually die, so what, it would be "political seppeku" to dare change the dialogue. Their power is more important than peoples' lives. Again, my point is that there's no turning back from this.

Yup.

And one of those Arizona election officials who got death threats and horrible messages about his dead daughter was asked who he would vote for in 2024 if it was Trump v. Biden again.

AND HE STILL SAID TRUMP

[Ojo Rojo 1965]

3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I think you're understating the actual implications of this problem and implying that this is the same as other forms of unpleasant politics. They don't even need to say "fuck trump" they could just say to let the system play itself out and try to change the subject. They have a million other boogie man cards to play with these morons. But they press the easiest path that have honest people being harassed and living in fear for themselves and their families. If they have refused to do it now, there's nothing near or short term that will change this dynamic.

The implications are worst case scenario - that the U.S. becomes a fascist, authoritarian state. No understatement from me there.  But implications are different than what has actually happened or even the odds of that happening. There's been a lot of talk.  A couple of suicides by FBI.  I'm not saying not to be alarmed or on guard. I just don't agree, based on what has happened already and what is likely to happen in the future, that it's all over, we've lost, etc. etc. etc.

[chainsaw 9869]

[Ojo Rojo 1965]

17 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yes, my ultimate quarrel with politics and politicians in this country.  Their only motivation seems to be political expedience.

Trump is actually worse, though, because self-interest "trumps" even political expedience.

Political expedience or self interest or both.  Anything but what they should be doing - adhering the will of the people and doing what's right for the country.  Maybe we need to only employ people in Congress who have taken a vow of poverty.  Sort of like how they used to have eunuchs guard the women's quarters in ancient China.

[Ojo Rojo 1965]

7 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

[Satchel 6938]

Russia is now trolling America big time. They love having that big buffoon in their back pocket:

https://www.newsweek.com/moscow-already-studying-top-secret-records-trump-raid-russian-media-1733440

Hosts on Russia's state-owned Russia-1 television channel said that officials in Moscow have already been "studying" top secret and other classified documents the FBI sought through a search warrant of former President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort home.

The FBI, with the approval of Attorney General Merrick Garland, carried out a raid of Trump's Florida residence looking for top secret and sensitive compartmentalized information, as well as other classified documents, on Monday. The Washington Post reported on Thursday that records related to nuclear weapons were sought by the federal agents, but Trump described that reporting as a "hoax."

Russia-1 reported on the raid in a segment shared to Twitter late Friday evening by Julia Davis, a columnist for The Daily Beast and the creator of the Russian Media Monitor. During the segment, state-run television host Evgeny Popov mentioned the reporting about nuclear weapons.

[RomaVicta 29908]

26 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

I still think you are overstating a bit. Nevertheless, if Republicans all of a sudden just say, "Fuck Trump!" and they lose all of his supporters - that is political suicide.  They are not going to do it. Would that be the right and moral thing to do?  Would it be better for our country? Yes! Yes! Fuck yes!  And THAT is the problem - politics, what we want collectively, is not lining up with what is good for us.

Respectfully, I think your notion of some decent core of GOPs who would love to abandon Trump and return to what GOPs used to be is a romantic delusion. Hell, I even had it myself for quite awhile. 

The GOP is rotten to the core. Liz Cheney isn't welcome. Think about that. The elected GOPs are okay with Jan 6, Trump, and stifling any attempt to investigate or apply standards to official behavior. Cheney's politics are hardly devoid of hate engine aspects, yet she's too soft.

I despise the Dems for knuckling under over the Iraq invasion. That's the kind of disgusting politics you're describing. This Trump business is a whole new animal. You don't destroy your country for political expedience and get a pass until your better side can surface.

They are destroying the country. The leadership knows what they're doing and who they serve. Their part of the electorate vote against their interests thinking they're the ones actually saving the country. They're wrong, and it's an objective observation.

You write well and are clearly no dummy. If you're a Trumpist, you hide it brilliantly. I just feel like you've been asleep for the the last seven years and woke up unable to digest this totally unpredicted world.

It really is as bad as it looks. Responsibility for the rot is not shared equally between the two political sides. One side dedicates itself to wickedness for gain and cruelty for entertainment.

It's bad, man. Really bad.

[HornPhD 1368]

1 hour ago, CooterBrown said:

A black diplomatic passport and a regular personal passport.

Why do you have to mention the color of the passport? 

[TwiceHorn 31475]

2 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Respectfully, I think your notion of some decent core of GOPs who would love to abandon Trump and return to what GOPs used to be is a romantic delusion. Hell, I even had it myself for quite awhile. 

The GOP is rotten to the core. Liz Cheney isn't welcome. Think about that. The elected GOPs are okay with Jan 6, Trump, and stifling any attempt to investigate or apply standards to official behavior. Cheney's politics are hardly devoid of hate engine aspects, yet she's too soft.

I despise the Dems for knuckling under over the Iraq invasion. That's the kind of disgusting politics you're describing. This Trump business is a whole new animal. You don't destroy your country for political expedience and get a pass until your better side can surface.

They are destroying the country. The leadership knows what they're doing and who they serve. Their part of the electorate vote against their interests thinking they're the ones actually saving the country. They're wrong, and it's an objective observation.

You write well and are clearly no dummy. If you're a Trumpist, you hide it brilliantly. I just feel like you've been asleep for the the last seven years and woke up unable to digest this totally unpredicted world.

It really is as bad as it looks. Responsibility for the rot is not shared equally between the two political sides. One side dedicates itself to wickedness for gain and cruelty for entertainment.

It's bad, man. Really bad.

The decent core of GOPs left.🙋‍♂️

I suppose there are a few that are not heavily engaged that remain ignorant of the Trumpist GOP, but it's hard to imagine.

[Willfully Horn 8017]

12 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Both of the poltiifact articles I referenced cite that case. https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/484/518

The case is not directly on point about anything, except that it says that decisions about security clearances and related matters are the sole province of the Executive.  

“The 1988 Supreme Court case Navy v. Egan confirmed that classification authority flows from the president except in specific instances separated from his power by law.” 

Not a lawyer, but if one POTUS signed a bill into law, another cannot undo that law. If nuclear secrets have been designated beyond POTUS’ discretion, then I don’t see the infringement upon executive power. We don’t have kings, and no one, not even POTUS, is above the law. 
 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/trump-fbi-raid-classified-nuclear-documents/671119/

Edited August 16, 2022 by Willfully Horn
Stray punct

[Ojo Rojo 1965]

16 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Respectfully, I think your notion of some decent core of GOPs who would love to abandon Trump and return to what GOPs used to be is a romantic delusion. Hell, I even had it myself for quite awhile. 

The GOP is rotten to the core. Liz Cheney isn't welcome. Think about that. The elected GOPs are okay with Jan 6, Trump, and stifling any attempt to investigate or apply standards to official behavior. Cheney's politics are hardly devoid of hate engine aspects, yet she's too soft.

I despise the Dems for knuckling under over the Iraq invasion. That's the kind of disgusting politics you're describing. This Trump business is a whole new animal. You don't destroy your country for political expedience and get a pass until your better side can surface.

They are destroying the country. The leadership knows what they're doing and who they serve. Their part of the electorate vote against their interests thinking they're the ones actually saving the country. They're wrong, and it's an objective observation.

You write well and are clearly no dummy. If you're a Trumpist, you hide it brilliantly. I just feel like you've been asleep for the the last seven years and woke up unable to digest this totally unpredicted world.

It really is as bad as it looks. Responsibility for the rot is not shared equally between the two political sides. One side dedicates itself to wickedness for gain and cruelty for entertainment.

It's bad, man. Really bad.

I'm no Trumpist. I'm the opposite of whatever Trump is. I just try to remain objective so I can see things as clearly as possible and how they really are. I don't think I'm being Polyanna based on what has actually happened and the direction things are going. I guess we'll see.

[TwiceHorn 31475]

17 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

“The 1988 Supreme Court case Navy v. Egan confirmed that classification authority flows from the president except in specific instances separated from his ppwer by law.” 

Not a lawyer, but if one POTUS signed a bill into law, another cannot undo that law. If nuclear secrets have been designated beyond POTUS’ discretion, then I don’t see the infringement upon executive power. We don’t have kings, and no one, not even POTUS,!is above the law. 
 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/trump-fbi-raid-classified-nuclear-documents/671119/

The broad reading of Egan does not include anything akin to the bold. 

I have become aware of some criticism of the broad reading of Egan.  The poltifact articles cited Egan, and the 2017 politifact article cites it and the agreement of several legal scholars, including our own Steve Vladeck, on the general proposition, to wit:

Quote

"There’s no question that the president has broad authority to declassify almost anything at any time without any process, but that’s not what happened here," said Stephen I. Vladeck, professor at the University of Texas School of Law. "He did not, in fact, declassify the information he shared with the Russians, which is why The Washington Post did not publish that information."

And another guy:

Quote

In fact, Robert F. Turner, associate director of the University of Virginia's Center for National Security Law, said that "if Congress were to enact a statute seeking to limit the president’s authority to classify or declassify national security information, or to prohibit him from sharing certain kinds of information with Russia, it would raise serious separation of powers constitutional issues."

I feel like other sources are poorly informed in this regard, although if someone wants to argue that Egan stands for something narrower, I might agree.  The broad holding is way, way beyond anything actually decided in the case.

My only interest in this argument is that there seems to be something of a consensus among the national security law scholars that the president's authority is almost limitless.  So don't get your hopes up.

Edited August 15, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[CTC2 2797]

2 hours ago, 'stache said:

As long as the current republican party is still winning elections it's not hyperbole. How many national republicans are currently willing to outright say trump is an idiot, a traitor, and a danger to democracy? Like maybe 5? Have you seen the official GOP twitter accounts? They're full on parroting what the orange menace is saying about the "raid" and indictments. You know who can stop that? Elected republicans. Yet they are not. At most, some are saying "let this play out" or "I don't like his approach but he's still better than the SOCIALISTS blah blah blah." Even putting trump aside for a second, any republican who uses the word socialist is playing the same game. They've made that word a boogieman with no meaning. That alone signals the serious problem. 

I think 95% of the Red Hats are either crazy, stupid, racist, uneducated, or republicans who haven't gotten the memo that their party has been completely hijacked by crazy, stupid, racist, and uneducated people.  Take the percentage of republicans who support Trump and I will show you a group of people who don't mind living in an authoritarian state so as long as the dictator is Trump or someone who agrees with them.

[TexasEd 8067]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Not so much the lower grades as the President himself. I tend to have an expansive view of what the executive can do. The hypothetical march out of the briefing room to tell the American people something he decided is important is, to my non-legal mind, perfectly fair use of executive power. 
 

But what’s infuriating is that this isn’t good faith and arguments like “he just has to think it” or “by the very act of mishandling it, he declassified it” might be persuasive in court, they are truly garbage from a reality standpoint. Here’s how you know— any schmuck who shared the same damn information or a different copy of the stuff between Inauguration Day and Friday would have gone down hard. Trumps lawyers wouldn’t swoop in to say “hey wait, that stuff got declassified when we left the White House and took it to MAL.” They wanted it because it was valuable and it was (is) valuable because it was (is) highly classified. 

Exactly.  It was classified because it would harm the United States if it was released.  That the information is restricted also makes it valuable for monetary and extortion purposes.  If it was released on wikileaks it is still valuable to hurt the US but loses the monetary and extortion purposes.

 

2 hours ago, Chopper said:

A defendant is tried where the crime was committed so it depends what the charges are. If he were prosecuted for obstruction of certain investigations that were DC-based, jurisdiction would be in DC. I can see arguments for why jurisdiction would potentially fall under the federal court in Southern Florida for charges related to mishandling of classified information but the Feds may have arguments for why that should also be in DC. I hope we fucking find out!

The documents were stolen from DC.  The initial crime was committed in DC.  Storing it illegaly, sharing the information or trying to sell it may have been done in FL but it could be argued that they intended to do those crimes when they stole it.  Could make for an interesting jurisdiction case.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

1 hour ago, Ojo Rojo said:

You replied before I was done with my last post.  My reply to 'stache is almost exactly what you are saying. We are at a moment in time where a certain set of policies, which are very bad for the country as a whole, are winning or close to winning important elections. The guy who has no shame, no conscience and is 100% completely and totally self-centered became president because he cradled the balls, stroked the shaft, worked the pipe and swallowed the gravy of those heinous policies. Others are following his example. He lost in 2020. If there is no resurgence in 2024 we've seen the high water mark.

He lost in 2016 too.  Let’s not lose sight of that.  These dipshits have not won a popular election since Reagan.  

[David Dennison 18860]

6 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

He lost in 2016 too.  Let’s not lose sight of that.  These dipshits have not won a popular election since Reagan.  

W. won one. So did his old man.

Edited August 15, 2022 by David Dennison