A story about a pathetic man's downfall [34 Felony Convictions]

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

15 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Kash Patel was chief of staff to the acting secretary of the DoD. It’s not a huge mystery 

Yeah, I’ve wondered about Christopher Miller being a prime suspect. But I’m not sure if security wasn’t compromised well before he was put in place. I’m not sure he wasn’t chosen just to keep the National Guard from defending the Capitol during the insurrection. 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

, Trump has appointed fewer than 30%.  So, still too many, but you have less than a 1 in 3 chance of drawing a Trump district judge, and less than that of getting a two-Trump appeal panel.

Question for you and any other law dog that cares to answer.  Do you think the "random draw" of federal judges gets gamed?

 

 

i mean, you're an IP lawyer that is in a state that includes waco.  you as much as anyone should know that your framing is dishonest

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

1 minute ago, The Royal We said:

I thought the same exact thing.  He's trying to lull reasonable people into thinking that he's found his spine and is on the right side of this, but it's all a bunch of horseshit.  Just like everything else that comes out of his mouth.

Barr deserves to hang because he betrayed his country by lying to them about Russia’s interference in the 2016 election and Trump’s complicity with it. Even though he defended that treachery by saying he’ll be dead so he doesn’t care about his legacy, I think he’s trying to rehabilitate his image by acknowledging that the election wasn’t stolen and that Trump stealing classified documents is illegal. As soon as he appeared before the Jan. 6 committee and acknowledged that Trump lost the election, he was on the outs with the MAGA crowd. I don’t think there’s any going back for him now.

[Texas St. Armadillos 1381]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

Actually, a former SecState or SecDef would have the security clearance.  It's just the law degree that would usually be lacking.  But Hillary would work (and would be completely hilarious).

Yep, she has her JD from Yale.

[HenryJames 66041]

27 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Isn't that why tfg filed in this Court?

Yes.

 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

3 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Barr deserves to hang because he betrayed his country by lying to them about Russia’s interference in the 2016 election and Trump’s complicity with it. Even though he defended that treachery by saying he’ll be dead so he doesn’t care about his legacy, I think he’s trying to rehabilitate his image by acknowledging that the election wasn’t stolen and that Trump stealing classified documents is illegal. As soon as he appeared before the Jan. 6 committee and acknowledged that Trump lost the election, he was on the outs with the MAGA crowd. I don’t think there’s any going back for him now.

he'd drawn that line before then.  he was never on board with 'stolen election' b.s., and said it was all nonsense in november.

[The Royal We 3072]

1 minute ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I think he’s trying to rehabilitate his image by acknowledging that the election wasn’t stolen and that Trump stealing classified documents is illegal.

He can EABOD and DIAF for all I care, but I do appreciate that he's been vocal about this.  It's one of the things that I like to point out when talking to FN/Brain Worms infected family and friends that bought and still believe the big lie.  Bill fucking Barr says there was no election fraud!  -I'm sure you're shocked to find out that it doesn't even move the needle for these people. 

[SquishMitten 10403]

58 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Find the most qualified, objective, unbiased person to do the job and I guarantee the Trump team will object to them.

They will object to anyone that isn't also complicit in some of his crimes. And any person falling into that category is obviously unacceptable. So, yeah, they are most likely going to strenuously object. However, since they should know the ultimate outcome, I wouldn't be surprised if they actually hope the SM is someone they can use as a boogeyman to discredit the whole thing. Like, if it really was Hillary, that could be the best possible thing for him. The entire right will immediately ignore everything related to all further proceedings.  

[Pig Bellmont 8712]

1) Fuck Bill Barr

2) the judge is going to have to appoint someone bc no way the parties will agree, much less find, this mythical lawyer with top level clearances

3) I don’t see how DOJ doesn’t at least appeal the part of the order enjoining the criminal investigation. Reputational harm cannot be a realistic standard to put a criminal investigation on hold indefinitely 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

6 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

1) Fuck Bill Barr

2) the judge is going to have to appoint someone bc no way the parties will agree, much less find, this mythical lawyer with top level clearances

3) I don’t see how DOJ doesn’t at least appeal the part of the order enjoining the criminal investigation. Reputational harm cannot be a realistic standard to put a criminal investigation on hold indefinitely 

Does the special master have to be a lawyer?

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

9 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

he'd drawn that line before then.  he was never on board with 'stolen election' b.s., and said it was all nonsense in november.

I think that’s what I said. 

[TwiceHorn 31450]

22 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

 

 

i mean, you're an IP lawyer that is in a state that includes waco.  you as much as anyone should know that your framing is dishonest

Fair point regarding tiny districts/divisions.  But those assignments do change from time to time and divisions consisting of one judge like Albright are fairly rare.

And Albright is a Trump appointee, but most consider him to be a pretty fair judge outside of his patent venue manipulation bullshit.

Edited September 7, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[sidis 9825]

23 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

 

 

i mean, you're an IP lawyer that is in a state that includes waco Marshall.  you as much as anyone should know that your framing is dishonest

fify

[SydneyCarton 48075]

Lol. The DOJ is going to appeal. Watch. And considering how hard it will be to find a special master, I'm not sure that they shouldn't. But no matter what it's going to be a disaster, so there's that. 

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

7 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

1) Fuck Bill Barr

2) the judge is going to have to appoint someone bc no way the parties will agree, much less find, this mythical lawyer with top level clearances

3) I don’t see how DOJ doesn’t at least appeal the part of the order enjoining the criminal investigation. Reputational harm cannot be a realistic standard to put a criminal investigation on hold indefinitely 

Again, BIll Barr should hang because he’s a traitor and nothing will ever change that.

If Trump’s chosen judge is going to appoint the Special Master then we're probably looking at someone like Lindsey Graham or Devin Nunes or someone else who is deeply in Trump’s pocket. 

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

1 minute ago, SydneyCarton said:

Lol. The DOJ is going to appeal. Watch. And considering how hard it will be to find a special master, I'm not sure that they shouldn't. But no matter what it's going to be a disaster, so there's that. 

I assume the Trump camp is hoping they’ll appeal since that will waste even more time and that’s what they were going for in the first place. 

[Longhorn94 2448]

17 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

1) Fuck Bill Barr

2) the judge is going to have to appoint someone bc no way the parties will agree, much less find, this mythical lawyer with top level clearances

3) I don’t see how DOJ doesn’t at least appeal the part of the order enjoining the criminal investigation. Reputational harm cannot be a realistic standard to put a criminal investigation on hold indefinitely 

Im not even sure the judge has the ability in a civil matter to enjoin the DOJ from pursuing a criminal investigation - separation of powers or something or other.

 

and i disagree with TH on the PRA issues. I believe the NARA Archivist's letter has been interpreted by everyone else other than TH to apply to all documents in Trump's possession. They didnt know what he had at the time because he concealed it and they didnt limit it to any specific set of documents or recoveries. The decision to waive privilege as to all documents that Trump stole, concealed, and refused to return has already been made. The only legitimate action for Trump to take at this point is to file suit in the DC Court to assert any alleged claims of EP.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Longhorn94

[SydneyCarton 48075]

3 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I assume the Trump camp is hoping they’ll appeal since that will waste even more time and that’s what they were going for in the first place. 

I know. I specifically said it was going to be a disaster no matter what. 

[Longhornfan1024 1707]

3 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

It would be extremely funny if, after all the support Israel gave him, he sold secrets on their nuclear program and defense capabilities to the Saudis.

It's Russia.  He gave Russia our intel on their nukes so they would know what we know.  He's transparent in his tells and it's all in his tweet.  

[Covri 6247]

30 days since Trumps gold leaf shit box got raided by the FBI and nothing has happened. Oh wait something did happen, he got one of his judge appointments to grant him special privileges. Shocker!

 

 

[Pig Bellmont 8712]

Don’t forget that Trump can appeal decisions made by the Special Master, too, so all kinds of room for fuckery if this simply goes forward the way Judge Cannon has set out

[TwiceHorn 31450]

39 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

Im not even sure the judge has the ability in a civil matter to enjoin the DOJ from pursuing a criminal investigation - separation of powers or something or other.

 

and i disagree with TH on the PRA issues. I believe the NARA Archivist's letter has been interpreted by everyone else other than TH to apply to all documents in Trump's possession. They didnt know what he had at the time because he concealed it and didnt limit it to any specific set of documents or recoveries. The decision to waive privilege as to all documents that Trump stole, concealed, and refused to return has already been made. The only legitimate action for Trump to take at this point is to file suit in the DC Court to assert an alleged claims of EP.

Well, a judge would have the power to withhold/order return of attorney-client privilege documents, and that's what is more or less at issue here.  The criminal investigation is not enjoined entirely, it just can't use certain documents.  Perhaps a fine distinction, but a distinction nevertheless.

The one problem with the NARA letter, and possibly the whole process, is that the Archivist has never been in possession or able to review any of the documents coming from the subpoena or seizure, whereas the first 15 boxes were returned to NARA/The Archivist, and reviewed, which is how this whole thing started. That seems to me to be a problem with "extending" the NARA letter to these documents.

So, sure, you can "interpret" the letter that way.  You may be right, you may be wrong.  It remains a grey area.  And, as I have stated repeatedly, I think the reasoning of the Archivist is sound and would apply to the post-15 boxes documents with just as much force, but that needs to be shored up with an actual review by the Archivist/Administration and explicit assertion of the "waiver" of the privilege.

I am very much in favor of involving the Archivist and Biden Administration in the process of asserting/withholding/waiving executive privilege here because the venue for challenging that is D DC.  Plus, it eliminates any argument that the PRA wasn't followed here, which could be problematic for a future indictment.

Edited September 7, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31450]

35 minutes ago, sidis said:

fify

And even when ED Tex was the favored venue, there was a multiplicity of judges available and some were better for patent purposes than others.  Davis was always a bit of a tail-end Charlie on that.  And a number of dufuses filed in Sherman or Beaumont for a self-defeating forum shop.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

38 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Fair point regarding tiny districts/divisions.  But those assignments do change from time to time and divisions consisting of one judge like Albright are fairly rare.

And Albright is a Trump appointee, but most consider him to be a pretty fair judge outside of his patent venue manipulation bullshit.

*** unneeded edit there.  i don't want any implication that i was slandering albright.  i was just pointing out that just looking at the percentage of total judges appointed by trump as the odds of getting a trump-appointed judge is missing a very key element of the math.  

 

"half the people in the US are R, half are D, so this page of the the Amarillo phone book is probably filled with a nice even split"

[TwiceHorn 31450]

2 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

*** unneeded edit there.  i don't want any implication that i was slandering albright.  i was just pointing out that just looking at the percentage of total judges appointed by trump as the odds of getting a trump-appointed judge is missing a very key element of the math.  

 

"half the people in the US are R, half are D, so this page of the the Amarillo phone book is probably filled with a nice even split"

And, as I said, it's a very fair point.  An analysis of which districts and divisions are more highly infected with Trump judges would be interesting.

But the point also remains that not every Trump appointee is a MAGAT piece of shit.

[tx 3 putt 76905]

2 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

Just thinking about who the special master would be, it's hard to think of anybody who would have the necessary security clearance and legal background outside of (1) a former president, (2) a former attorney general, or (3) a former White House counsel (and I'm not even sure about that last one).  None of those options would be particularly friendly to Trump.

Why would the special master need to rule on known secret / classified documents ?

Edited September 7, 2022 by tx 3 putt

[horn4life 3760]

The Special Master is simply a delaying tactic, nothing more or less.  The idea is to delay and spin.  Not at all unlike Barr's lying about the Mueller Reports findings and letting it percolate for weeks before the actual facts became known.  But the lie is what was remembered by most.

This is no different, delay and try to find more ways to delay.  Fight over every bit of minutia to tie up and delay.  I honestly cannot believe the judge did what she did, but I can see trying to err on the side of caution (barely).  I will be curious to see if the DOJ asks for clarification on the stopping of the investigation.  But the goal is to delay, delay, delay.

All hell will indeed break loose when Trump is indicted.  All the white aggrieved folks will be up in arms!  Taking the EXACT OPPOSITE positions on nearly every point that they have professed previously.  Because hypocrisy along with lies, and the two foundational legs of the GOP at this point.  Ultimately the man is guilty as sin.  The only real question now is will we ever find out the level of his traitorous actions?  We never found out the extent of the Trump Russia ties, because Trump pardoned his so-conspirator Roger Stone.  We will never know the fullness of his traitorous acts on January 6th, do to purposeful destruction of text communications that clearly would have been beyond damning.  So hopefully we will find out more details in time.

Hopefully in a year or two the biggest topic of conversation will be, does the Secret Service have to go to prison the protect Trump?

[TwiceHorn 31450]

17 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

Why would the special master need to rule on known secret / classified documents ?

It is assumed that every document seized will be reviewed, and that will require the appropriate security clearance.

It is highly unlikely, in my opinion, that any of the top secret documents were generated by Trump or his immediate advisors, which is a prerequisite for executive privilege, but you can't really know that for certain until the documents are actually reviewed.  Thankfully, documents generated by executive AGENCIES (DOD, NSA, CIA, whatever), even if prepared for executive review, are generally not executive privileged.

I would prefer that this review be carried out, to the extent possible, by an ostensibly neutral person and "in public."  For future criminal purposes, that, to me, is highly preferable to FBI/DOJ doing it behind closed doors.  That seems very ripe to me to create a possible real issue for Trump to exploit down the line.

 

All of this is a variation on, "if you give Trump what he wants now he can't complain later."  I know that he will complain anyway, but the likelihood of him stumbling into a valid complaint is much lower when it happens this way.

Edited September 7, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31450]

52 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Don’t forget that Trump can appeal decisions made by the Special Master, too, so all kinds of room for fuckery if this simply goes forward the way Judge Cannon has set out

And, Trump could have appealed any decision she made as it granted or denied injunctive relief.  So it's a fuckery net neutral.

[wildcat09 29349]

59 minutes ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

It's Russia.  He gave Russia our intel on their nukes so they would know what we know.  He's transparent in his tells and it's all in his tweet.  

I'm not saying this isn't completely plausible, but we know the Saudis paid Jared (and I'm sure Trump ends up getting most of) over $2 billion. It wasn't because they had that degree of confidence in his business acumen.  

[Pig Bellmont 8712]

17 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

It is assumed that every document seized will be reviewed, and that will require the appropriate security clearance.

It is highly unlikely, in my opinion, that any of the top secret documents were generated by Trump or his immediate advisors, which is a prerequisite for executive privilege, but you can't really know that for certain until the documents are actually reviewed.  Thankfully, documents generated by executive AGENCIES (DOD, NSA, CIA, whatever), even if prepared for executive review, are generally not executive privileged.

I would prefer that this review be carried out, to the extent possible, by an ostensibly neutral person and "in public."  For future criminal purposes, that, to me, is highly preferable to FBI/DOJ doing it behind closed doors.  That seems very ripe to me to create a possible real issue for Trump to exploit down the line.

 

All of this is a variation on, "if you give Trump what he wants now he can't complain later."  I know that he will complain anyway, but the likelihood of him stumbling into a valid complaint is much lower when it happens this way.

It’s like you never read If You Give a Mouse a Cookie 

[Dnaguy 11943]

15 minutes ago, horn4life said:

 

Hopefully in a year or two the biggest topic of conversation will be, does the Secret Service have to go to prison the protect Trump?

Trump will never serve a day in jail

IF he’s charged, he will take a plea bargain to a lesser crime that will have no jail time but an assurance he never runs again. He’ll claim victory and argue that he actually outsmarted the feds, it’s was political, and still weigh in on republican politics / politics in general.
If he’s ever convicted… which is unlikely his sentence will be commuted. He’ll claim victory b/c he he never actual went to jail.

 

[Mo Horn 8832]

1 minute ago, Dnaguy said:

Trump will never serve a day in jail

IF he’s charged, he will take a plea bargain to a lesser crime that will have no jail time but an assurance he never runs again. He’ll claim victory and argue that he actually outsmarted the feds, it’s was political, and still weigh in on republican politics / politics in general.
If he’s ever convicted… which is unlikely his sentence will be commuted. He’ll claim victory b/c he he never actual went to jail.

 

And if he ever gets fined for anything, he'll never pay a dime. 

[TwiceHorn 31450]

Hell, it occurs to me that while DOJ is in this holding pattern, they ought to ship it all off to NARA, where it actually belongs, so that the Archivist can write another letter.

That would dot Is and cross Ts and possibly moot a whole lot of this.  And shift venue to D DC.

Edited September 7, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Fudge Nuggets 19190]

2 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

Actually, a former SecState or SecDef would have the security clearance.  It's just the law degree that would usually be lacking.  But Hillary would work (and would be completely hilarious).

Dotard is going to nominate Dotard Jr. Twice will then spend a few posts explaining how that’s fine and DOJ should go with it to reduce the chance of an appeal.  

[HenryJames 66041]

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19190]

6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Hell, it occurs to me that while DOJ is in this holding pattern, they ought to ship it all off to NARA, where it actually belongs, so that the Archivist can write another letter.

That would dot Is and cross Ts and possibly moot a whole lot of this.  And shift venue to D DC.

Fuck writing letters, dotting i’s and crossing t’s. It’s past time to start hanging fuckers. 
 

[wildcat09 29349]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

And, as I said, it's a very fair point.  An analysis of which districts and divisions are more highly infected with Trump judges would be interesting.

But the point also remains that not every Trump appointee is a MAGAT piece of shit.

A lot more are than you're currently willing to admit to yourself. You'll come around. 

[tx 3 putt 76905]

37 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I'm not saying this isn't completely plausible, but we know the Saudis paid Jared (and I'm sure Trump ends up getting most of) over $2 billion. It wasn't because they had that degree of confidence in his business acumen.  

didn’t the normal Saudi process shoot down the kush and the prince stepped in and said ‘yes’ ?

[Pato del Muerto 52489]

13 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

A lot more are than you're currently willing to admit to yourself. You'll come around. 

That part makes no sense to me. Unless he could appoint those which he had blackmail material on.  It’s not like he can revoke these appointments. They have no reason to be so beholden to him as to ignore or rewrite the laws. 
 

morons can hold the opinion that trump should be able to do as he pleases. Judges, members of the bar, should be educated enough to have a line that is well short of moronic. 

[Beantown Express 2.0 6559]

2 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

That part makes no sense to me. Unless he could appoint those which he had blackmail material on.  It’s not like he can revoke these appointments. They have no reason to be so beholden to him as to ignore or rewrite the laws. 
 

morons can hold the opinion that trump should be able to do as he pleases. Judges, members of the bar, should be educated enough to have a line that is well short of moronic. 

Maybe you should take a look at the experience of some of the judges that fuckstick appointed.  

[HenryJames 66041]

1 minute ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

Maybe you should take a look at the experience of some of the judges that fuckstick appointed.  

Yup. Just join the Federalist Society in college, and you’ve pretty much got it made.

[Beantown Express 2.0 6559]

10 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Yup. Just join the Federalist Society in college, and you’ve pretty much got it made.

Yup.  Quite a few never even tried a case in court but were on the Federalist Society list so they got appointed for life.  It’s a real flaw in our judicial system.  That and the lack of wearing those powdered wigs.  We should bring that back for judges.

[YGIFS 19450]

I thought the powdered wigs were to cover up symptoms of Syphillis?  

[Horndog 2228]

Reluctantly, I am with Twicehorn on most of this.  I, too, would love to see the dotard publicly tarred and feathered, then dropped headfirst into a YUGE bucket of steaming shit, and then washed off with tapwater from Jackson, MS., before being hauled off to a maximum security prison and being assigned to a cell full of violent sex offenders.  But we can't just jettison the entire judicial system because we don't like the asshole.  We all know that he had classified documents and other government records he had no right to possess which, coupled with our blinding hatred of the dotard and our awareness of past crimes, generates the urge to move straight to the punishment phase. But on the whole, law enforcement having the exclusive right to review the documents is somewhat troubling.  However much we side with the government in this situation, the bigger purpose is served by eliminating any possible flaws or defects now, rather than later (see Page, Carter).  

There is a bit of horse and cart problem.  The DOJ says, hey it's good, we only got documents that he has no right to.  Is a Judge required to take that at face value, without any ability to independently confirm?  We can all be skeptical of the Judge's motivation, but it is also true that several dotard appointees were involved in the election suits and ultimately applied the law correctly.  I am willing to see how this plays out a bit longer.  The tell may well be the name of the person named as Special Master and the authority granted/limitations imposed.  If Cannon truly has an agenda, it should be evident when we hear who has been appointed and what specific functions that person is supposed to perform. 

The point upthread about the dotard's right to appeal is very true.  If Cannon had rejected the request altogether, he would have appealed and created further delay.  And then if the Circuit Court reversed, it would have been with instructions on how to proceed.  So months from now we might be back at this same point. 

The judicial process can be painful and frustrating, but if we are truly a country of laws and  not men, then the process has to play out.

[TXSG8R 3362]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

And, as I said, it's a very fair point.  An analysis of which districts and divisions are more highly infected with Trump judges would be interesting.

But the point also remains that not every Trump appointee is a MAGAT piece of shit.

Would being part of the federalist society be an easier filter to apply to partisan piece of shit judges?

[Captainant 27653]

Lol "trusting the process" when you're dealing with fascists who don't give two fat fucks about rules or process is how you end up with a fascist government. 

[Pig Bellmont 8712]

3 minutes ago, Horndog said:

There is a bit of horse and cart problem.  The DOJ says, hey it's good, we only got documents that he has no right to.  Is a Judge required to take that at face value, without any ability to independently confirm? 

Yes. Just like with the receipt by the DOJ of any other stolen goods as a result of a search warrant in any criminal matter. 

[Horndog 2228]

47 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

Maybe you should take a look at the experience of some of the judges that fuckstick appointed.  

Your point is absolutely right, some of those judges had never seen the inside of a courthouse. But Cannon herself does not fall into that category.  She was an Assistant U. S. Attorney in the Southern District of Florida for seven years; 2 years in major crimes litigation and five years in the appellate division.  I have no idea about her judicial temperament, but she is not without some qualification.  She should be very familiar with criminal practice and procedure. 

[wildcat09 29349]

57 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

That part makes no sense to me. Unless he could appoint those which he had blackmail material on.  It’s not like he can revoke these appointments. They have no reason to be so beholden to him as to ignore or rewrite the laws. 
 

morons can hold the opinion that trump should be able to do as he pleases. Judges, members of the bar, should be educated enough to have a line that is well short of moronic. 

...or unless they're just naturally MAGAT pieces of shit who only care about owning the libs. Which before even becoming judges they'd already publicly indicated by their involvement with the Federalist Society, which yes, is mostly MAGAT pieces of shit who only care about owning the libs.