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A story about a pathetic man's downfall [34 Felony Convictions]

Francisco 2.0

By Francisco 2.0
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Beau Vine
Beau Vine

To be fair, President Trump’s four years in office weren’t so bad, except when when he incited an insurrection against the government, mismanaged a pandemic that killed nearly half a million Americans

Bama Chick
Bama Chick

Y’all about to get a great visual representation of Cullman, Alabama. Only good things to come out of Cullman are the Britt brothers (Roll Tide!) and orange rolls from All Steak restaurant. That pla

ChiTownDoc
ChiTownDoc

You seem really pissed off for a nontrumper.  Just laugh at the trumpers, bro.  They’re really gullible dumbfucks who worship this orange blob…you know, people completely unlike yourself.  

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Bookman

Bookman 4610

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

It’s pretty simple. Trump lawyers committed a federal crime when they submitted a written statement that Trump didn’t have classified docs. They either play ball or go to jail. 

I don't practice criminal law, but for the life of me I don't know why an attorney would certify something like that.

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Surly Bevo

Surly Bevo 24696

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Bookman said:

I don't practice criminal law, but for the life of me I don't know why an attorney would certify something like that.

Magnificent attorneys, the best attorneys, they can do things that no other attorney would do.  And I want you to know, they are simply marvelous.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31280

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

When trumps lawyers are aware the he’s continuing to break the law in a new manner, doesn’t that nullify attorney-client privilege? Or at least it would seem they would be ceasing to be his lawyer and instead be co-conspirators and thereby the privilege is gone.

 

Nullify the privilege, no.  But it does put an ethical lawyer in a bind.  If a client expresses the intention to commit a crime can you waive the privilege?  The answer seems to be no, but you pretty much must withdraw from the representation to avoid becoming an accessory.

The crime-fraud exception doesn't apply to incriminating statements by the client, even the confession to more crimes, or the intention to commit more crimes, or the lawyer's awareness of crimes being committed.  The exception nullifies privilege where the lawyer and client basically conspire to commit a crime, i.e. when the lawyer counsels the client how to do it or get away with it.

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

Posted
Posted

I am posting a picture of a cheeseburger.  It's not the best looking cheeseburger on the internet, but it is about ten thousand times more appetizing than that deconstructed bullshit image that will not fucking leave my tapa screen.  Hopefully this cheeseburger will displace that nonsense.  I have as much interest in deconstructing a hamburger as I do in pulling the engine out of a Ferrari and pretending it makes it better.  (

Bozo, I don't care if you like it.  It's a pointlessly fussy version of something God intended to be simple and messy.  It is heresy. You should be burned at the fucking stake.  Not really, but you get my drift. 

 

DSC_0369.jpg

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38127

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

George Conway is running around Twitter tonight intimating that Trump is going to be indicted tomorrow in ND Virginia.  And, for some reason, Trump did fly to Dulles tonight.

I’m dumb 

Why would Trump go to Dulles? Does someone need to be physically present to be indicted?

 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45495

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

It's a long way from indictment and arrest to conviction.  Don't pin your hopes on indictment and arrest.

Oh I know.  Our fucking AG has been under indictment for what?  6 years?  Ridiculous.  But it would be fun to see him arrested and watch the magats heads explode.

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Born to Run

Born to Run 6567

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I've listened to that several times over the years and I only just noticed he begins the interview the sentence, "Well, it was an amazing phone call."  So he's been completely unhinged from reality for at least 21 years.  I get his ego forces him to talk about how his building is now the tallest in downtown Manhattan, he can't help himself.  But when I think of 9/11, even the morning it happened when my manager was the phone with our offices in at 3WTC...a word that I've never would have thought to use would be "amazing."  
And the "everybody's been calling it the Second Tallest, now it's the tallest" is bullshit.  First off, I think even that idiot can count to two.  As in two world trade enter towers, making 40 Wall Street 3rd.  And in all my years of family and business in new York, I never once heard anybody refer to that buildings as "The Second Tallest."  I've heard/read it called 40 Wall, the Trump Building, or most often---the Manhattan/Chase-Manhattan Building.  
And what a classy, patriotic move by Trump to bring up any of this shit during footage of thousands of New Yorkers being crushed and burning to death.  Obviously we know he was watching cable news at the time.  Not even a perfunctory, "I'm checking to make sure all the people in our building down there are safe and accounted for."  Nope, not this fucking guy...
if you enjoy that, you should check out his superlative prose. I suggest "Art of the Deal." It's a master class on businessing. Real insight into how the Mastermind, that is Trump, operates. I can mail you the highlighted copy my brother mailed me back in 2016. After 4 readings I think I done absorbed all I'm ever gonna get.
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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9935

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23 hours ago, TXSG8R said:

FWIW Twicehorn’s take on the SM and other filings here are pretty on par with popehat and a few other legal smarty pants on Twitter. I get being frustrated with the pace of this stuff, but that seems to be the norm for any even mid profile cases. His interpretation isn’t going to mean fuck all to the actual case, so I don’t know what going after Twice is doing for you other than venting your anger at the wrong people. Trump and company are the evil fuck faces. Twice is a longhorn law dog with a unemotional take on things. 

Agree. @TwiceHorn is exposing the gaps that should be strengthened and providing efficient avenues for attaining a conviction. 
 

My problem with the Judge’s order was her use of her equitable powers in a criminal investigation requested by a party with unclean hands.   I do not believe the court had equitable jurisdiction here.
 

First, principles of equity generally forbid use of equitable powers in criminal proceedings. The Younger decision is a limiting instruction on when equity can be used, not a broad loophole for a court  

Second, those requesting equitable relief must have clean hands. The former President’s are unclean (and tiny).  Intermingling these classified documents with personal effects bars the use of the court’s equitable power as that act is illegal.

Third, the former President must possess a property interest in the Presidential documents seized to have standing to request equitable relief. If there is substantial doubt on whether he has a property right, the court should not use its equitable powers.  There is certainly substantial doubt whether the former President has any property right in the seized classified materials. The commingling of classified material with personal items is one of the crimes under investigation. The seizure of those personal items was allowed under the search warrant and a element of the commingling crime. 
 

tldr: the court did not have jurisdiction to use its equitable powers to fashion a remedy in this proceeding. Law, not equity, runs the show in criminal investigations. 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89447

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Why is he flying on a Citation? 

22 minutes ago, hookemATL said:

That’s a decoy Trump. Tfg is already off to Portugal, down South America way. 

It's weird, because this is a guy who thinks a safe means that law enforcement can't open it, and he thinks D.C. is 100% federal, and so he probably thinks that if the feds were after him, they couldn't touch him if he landed at a regional/city airport that's not controlled by the feds, because he'd be safe.

His Truth Social account had what looked to be the intern running it today.

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Fastbreak

Fastbreak 3959

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Posted

He was clearly on the golf course and had some chest pain.

“Mr. President we need to get you to the Hospital!”

“Ok. But how much will it cost me?”

“Probably a few thousand out of your pocket”

“Fuck that, fire up the jet and let’s go to Walter Reid. It’s free for me there.”

“But sir, the jet will cost 50k each way”

“So? I’m not paying for it”

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lemonlime

lemonlime 5503

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Really odd, you’d think he’d want to avoid DC as much as possible, and the speculation is fun, because golf shoes and an I’ll-fitting jacket are normal clothes for him.
 
 

Why would he go from bedminster to DC for medical treatment? I could sorta see him doing that from maralago but bedminster is just a helicopter ride from the nyc hospitals.
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31280

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

Agree. @TwiceHorn is exposing the gaps that should be strengthened and providing efficient avenues for attaining a conviction. 
 

My problem with the Judge’s order was her use of her equitable powers in a criminal investigation requested by a party with unclean hands.   I do not believe the court had equitable jurisdiction here.
 

First, principles of equity generally forbid use of equitable powers in criminal proceedings. The Younger decision is a limiting instruction on when equity can be used, not a broad loophole for a court  

Second, those requesting equitable relief must have clean hands. The former President’s are unclean (and tiny).  Intermingling these classified documents with personal effects bars the use of the court’s equitable power as that act is illegal.

Third, the former President must possess a property interest in the Presidential documents seized to have standing to request equitable relief. If there is substantial doubt on whether he has a property right, the court should not use its equitable powers.  There is certainly substantial doubt whether the former President has any property right in the seized classified materials. The commingling of classified material with personal items is one of the crimes under investigation. The seizure of those personal items was allowed under the search warrant and a element of the commingling crime. 
 

tldr: the court did not have jurisdiction to use its equitable powers to fashion a remedy in this proceeding. Law, not equity, runs the show in criminal investigations. 

I agree that the weakest part of the order is the analysis of the temporary injunction factors.  And that's probably the most fertile ground for reversal.

However, and I thought the government's standing argument was great at first, the law seems to be that it's more the PREMISES than the seized property, and he probably had enough proprietary interest in the personal and attorney-client privileged things to give him standing.  But, no one really knows because no one except the government has looked at the documents to know what's there.**  Which is where this gets weird, because the judge was in the dark about what the documents really are and contain.  That is highly, highly unusual.

And, in the final analysis, when she asked the government what the harm was in granting a temporary injunction, all they could say was "delay."  Now, delay in certain circumstances can be compelling, like the national security review.  And the government apparently conceded that permitting the ODNI review to go forward would largely alleviate that problem (wrongly in light of the stay filing), they weren't arguing from a position of strength.

If you've ever argued a temporary injunction and the basic irreparable harm (or lack of) you argue is "delay," you're gonna have a bad day.  Gotta tie it to something else.

Also, I'm not sure she has a real strong grip on executive privilege, but I'm not sure many do.  I think most of us are right in our analysis that it can't properly apply here, but that really is an extension of the two, and now three with Trump v. Thompson, major precedents.  I think it's a fairly easy stretch, but I am actually biased and have been eyeballing this shit for 30 years.  I can pretty easily see a lot of trial judges not wanting to make that interpretation dispositive of the whole thing.

One very broad way of looking at the judges order is "Let's slow down a minute, take a deep breath, and make sure we get this right."  The delay is annoying, and one of Trump's central tactics, but I don't see it as creating much advantage here.  And, I really am in favor of the "make sure we get this right" part.

**This is fairly astonishing in that, at least with respect to the 15 boxes and subpoena response, Trump's shitty lawyers should have prepared a detailed catalog of what they handed over, voluntarily.  Normally, you would keep a "bates numbered" copy, but that's not the way this works.  Of course, they had no opportunity to do that with the seized stuff, which is a bit the nature of the beast, and a bit the government's fault for leaving detail out of the receipt.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8691

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

There were a lot of weasel words in the "certification."  As has been discussed, I'm not sure why investigators accepted it.  And it was probably a contributing factor in continuing to investigate the documents.

The weasel words aren’t preventing prosecution. Everything in due time. 

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TexArcher

TexArcher 37518

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Oh I know.  Our fucking AG has been under indictment for what?  6 years?  Ridiculous.  But it would be fun to see him arrested and watch the magats heads explode.

I'm fairly certain they're going to commit violence over it in multiple locations.  Things are gonna get dangerous in a hurry.

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14251

Posted
Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

So far the only place this shit is showing up is on political nerd twitter.

Este.

Lots of nothing going on here for now.  

Any real news reporting of this (other than he took a flight to DC)?

So far this is all I've seen.

 

Edited by DDD Dad
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31280

Posted
Posted (edited)

Much more competent response to the Motion to Stay by Trumpco.  https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/64911367/84/trump-v-united-states/

The addition of Kise and subtraction of Halligan has much improved the advocacy.  Dammit.  They're also starting to make the declassification argument out loud, which I don't think is ultimately going to get them anywhere.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Tuco

Tuco 5076

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The addition of Kise and subtraction of Halligan has much improved the advocacy.  Dammit.  They're also starting to make the declassification argument out loud, which I don't think is ultimately going to get them anywhere.

Do they have a choice?  If the documents marked Top Secret are actually Top Secret, it seems like a pretty easy prosecution, regardless of any executive privilege issues.  I could see an EP argument that no one should be allowed to look at the documents, but that doesn't mean Trump is allowed to do what he wants with them.  At the end of the day, the defense will need to show that Trump did not have Top Secret documents in Maralargo.  That means either convincing people they weren't at Maralargo or that they weren't TS.  The first options means convincing a jury that 20-30 FBI agents set him up and that witnesses from the Trump camp are perjuring themselves, because certainly the DOJ has informants.  That is less likely to work than just claiming that they weren't actually Top Secret. 

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38127

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Much more competent response to the Motion to Stay by Trumpco.  https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/64911367/84/trump-v-united-states/

The addition of Kise and subtraction of Halligan has much improved the advocacy.  Dammit.  They're also starting to make the declassification argument out loud, which I don't think is ultimately going to get them anywhere.

They can go fuck themselves 

image.png.e89547122928297c120c0fa003e61270.png

 

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

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"Yet the Government apparently contends that President Trump, who had full authority to declassify documents, "willfully" retained classified information in violation of the law"

Well, yeah.  It does sound idiotic, but that's only because we're dealing with an idiot. 

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Red Five said:

I'm sorry, I thought classification was irrelevant here. 

I believe the DOJ's motion was that classified documents should bypass the Special Master.  The crime is not based on the classification, but the classified documents are the main evidence for the crime.  

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