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A story about a pathetic man's downfall [34 Felony Convictions]

Francisco 2.0

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The Original Greaser Bob

The Original Greaser Bob 2846

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Years ago, we were dealing with a case in Mexico.  Whenever the person we were dealing with didn't like a ruling, he'd go to another judge who would issue an amparo which would essentially overrule what the first judge ruled.

For a brief bit of time, I thought there judicial system was more fucked up than ours.

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Beau Vine
Beau Vine

To be fair, President Trump’s four years in office weren’t so bad, except when when he incited an insurrection against the government, mismanaged a pandemic that killed nearly half a million Americans

Bama Chick
Bama Chick

Y’all about to get a great visual representation of Cullman, Alabama. Only good things to come out of Cullman are the Britt brothers (Roll Tide!) and orange rolls from All Steak restaurant. That pla

ChiTownDoc
ChiTownDoc

You seem really pissed off for a nontrumper.  Just laugh at the trumpers, bro.  They’re really gullible dumbfucks who worship this orange blob…you know, people completely unlike yourself.  

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33887

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16 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

Years ago, we were dealing with a case in Mexico.  Whenever the person we were dealing with didn't like a ruling, he'd go to another judge who would issue an amparo which would essentially overrule what the first judge ruled.

For a brief bit of time, I thought there judicial system was more fucked up than ours.

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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26466

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20 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

Years ago, we were dealing with a case in Mexico.  Whenever the person we were dealing with didn't like a ruling, he'd go to another judge who would issue an amparo which would essentially overrule what the first judge ruled.

For a brief bit of time, I thought there judicial system was more fucked up than ours.

Image of Wait. Now, listen, did you ever hear of the Napoleonic Code, Stella?
 
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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29194

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missed most of today, but just so i am caught up - the spec master wanted details on whether trump claims he declassified these docs, which he obviously didn’t.  

but he can’t say he did or did not (in court) because if he says he did, that proves the docs were in fact classified, which means once it’s proven he didn’t go through the declassification process, he’s guilty of having docs he shouldn’t.

so he avoids the question entirely and just hopes that the spec master doesn’t believe what the govt printed on the folders?

sound right?

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8725

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44 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

missed most of today, but just so i am caught up - the spec master wanted details on whether trump claims he declassified these docs, which he obviously didn’t.  

but he can’t say he did or did not (in court) because if he says he did, that proves the docs were in fact classified, which means once it’s proven he didn’t go through the declassification process, he’s guilty of having docs he shouldn’t.

so he avoids the question entirely and just hopes that the spec master doesn’t believe what the govt printed on the folders?

sound right?

Yeah. Pretty much. Judge Dearie warned them plenty if they don’t take a position re: classifications they will have to live with the consequences 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29194

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22 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Yeah. Pretty much. Judge Dearie warned them plenty if they don’t take a position re: classifications they will have to live with the consequences 

which begs the question, which is worse?

a) claiming they weren't classified and therefore he was allowed to have them, then figuring out later that he didn't properly declassify them

b) claiming they were classified but he was allowed to have them because of trump privilege which means he can do whatever he wants times infinity plus one

c) doing neither and waiting to, as trump likes to say, "see what happens"

they seem to be choosing c, but i have no idea which option is worse.  i can only assume they're choosing whatever takes longest and gives the most chances for appeal.

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TexasEd

TexasEd 8071

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2 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

missed most of today, but just so i am caught up - the spec master wanted details on whether trump claims he declassified these docs, which he obviously didn’t.  

but he can’t say he did or did not (in court) because if he says he did, that proves the docs were in fact classified, which means once it’s proven he didn’t go through the declassification process, he’s guilty of having docs he shouldn’t.

so he avoids the question entirely and just hopes that the spec master doesn’t believe what the govt printed on the folders?

sound right?

Yeah but you missed the part where the special master Trump hand picked said the government has asserted they are classified and Trump won't dispute it so he considers the matter closed.

 

 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31531

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44 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

which begs the question, which is worse?

a) claiming they weren't classified and therefore he was allowed to have them, then figuring out later that he didn't properly declassify them

b) claiming they were classified but he was allowed to have them because of trump privilege which means he can do whatever he wants times infinity plus one

c) doing neither and waiting to, as trump likes to say, "see what happens"

they seem to be choosing c, but i have no idea which option is worse.  i can only assume they're choosing whatever takes longest and gives the most chances for appeal.

For clarification, the only documents/things he can keep are "personal" records, as opposed to presidential records, and attorney-client privileged information, that I presume is personal.

Quote

(2) The term "Presidential records" means documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, the President’s immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise or assist the President, in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term--

(A) includes any documentary materials relating to the political activities of the President or members of the President’s staff, but only if such activities relate to or have a direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; but

(B) does not include any documentary materials that are (i) official records of an agency (as defined in section 552(e) of title 5, United States Code; (ii) personal records; (iii) stocks of publications and stationery; or (iv) extra copies of documents produced only for convenience of reference, when such copies are clearly so identified.

(3) The term "personal records" means all documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, of a purely private or nonpublic character which do not relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term includes--

(A) diaries, journals, or other personal notes serving as the functional equivalent of a diary or journal which are not prepared or utilized for, or circulated or communicated in the course of, transacting Government business;

(B) materials relating to private political associations, and having no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; and

(C) materials relating exclusively to the President’s own election to the office of the Presidency; and materials directly relating to the election of a particular individual or individuals to Federal, State, or local office, which have no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.

He would have no right to keep classified material, even if he declassified it, as they would still be Presidential Records, as defined above.

Under the PRA, he would still retain "access" to Presidential Records kept in the custody of NARA.

He can, to some extent, control access to executive privileged Presidential Records by the public, Congress, and possibly others.  But the initial call there is made by Biden via the Archivist.  If he disagrees with the Archivist's (and Biden's) decision not to invoke or to waive executive privilege for the purpose of giving the documents to the public, Congress, or others, in this case an executive department for use in national security and criminal prosecution, he has the ability to assert that claim in the D. D.C.

Normally, in that executive privilege assertion process, Trump, the Biden Administration, and the Archivist would all have access to the documents for purposes of evaluating and asserting the privilege.

I would expect Dearie to adhere to the PRA to the greatest extent possible.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31531

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7 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

Yeah but you missed the part where the special master Trump hand picked said the government has asserted they are classified and Trump won't dispute it so he considers the matter closed.

 

 

We should probably be clear that Dearie hasn't ruled on anything, yet.  But he has very clearly expressed his disposition not to entertain any arguments about declassification unless Trump will swear under oath.

When push comes to shove, he's going to probably have to order the government to produce those documents bearing handwriting to him, along with a quotation of the handwriting, so that they can argue the executive privilege issues.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29194

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2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

He would have no right to keep classified material, even if he declassified it, as they would still be Presidential Records, as defined above.

on my options list, i just assumed by default that all were lies and all were illegal/improper.  i was just curious which they would choose to go with and which was worst for team trump.

claiming they were his to keep, regardless of their classification, is pretty much what he's been saying in private.  might i refer you to the 1986 case of finders v keepers.

don't touch my food GIF

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29194

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3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

When push comes to shove, he's going to probably have to order the government to produce those documents bearing handwriting to him, along with a quotation of the handwriting, so that they can argue the executive privilege issues.

i am dying to see what he wrote in the margins.  please please let those go public.  not the documents, just his scribblings.  i don't even need context.

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Js1

Js1 85536

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4 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i am dying to see what he wrote in the margins.  please please let those go public.  not the documents, just his scribblings.  i don't even need context.

Probably a lot of gross things about ivanka 

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Homercles

Homercles 10206

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1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

I would bet money it has to do with this:

 

It flew to Teterboro via Nashville at 130p today.  Must have been showing scheduled legs to San Antonio, through Destin, like the ones last week.  Ask Lobo how his FOIA request is going, he seems to ignore my repeated statements that this info is (currently) public knowledge. 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31531

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Aw fuck.  I just read some of the briefing in the 11th Circuit.

I think the part of the Special Master Order that enjoins the US from using the classified documents is appealable, as it is an injunction.

Orders appointing special masters, however, are not appealable.

So this is a mixture of appealable and not appealable.  Even if I trusted the 11th Circuit, and there's still a decent chance of a non-Trumpy panel, and a chance that a Trumpy panel isn't in the bag, I'm not sure the law is going to be on the gubmint's side on this one.  However, with respect to the injunction on the classified documents, the appeals court would have jurisdiction to stay/dissolve that, while leaving the special master review in place.  I'm trying to puzzle out how that works.

So, don't get your hopes up.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45713

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13 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Aw fuck.  I just read some of the briefing in the 11th Circuit.

I think the part of the Special Master Order that enjoins the US from using the classified documents is appealable, as it is an injunction.

Orders appointing special masters, however, are not appealable.

So this is a mixture of appealable and not appealable.  Even if I trusted the 11th Circuit, and there's still a decent chance of a non-Trumpy panel, and a chance that a Trumpy panel isn't in the bag, I'm not sure the law is going to be on the gubmint's side on this one.  However, with respect to the injunction on the classified documents, the appeals court would have jurisdiction to stay/dissolve that, while leaving the special master review in place.  I'm trying to puzzle out how that works.

So, don't get your hopes up.

Get the fuck outta here!  Man, you really had me convinced that we just had to let the system run its course!  I feel so misled!

Wait, no. All of us non-lawyers have seen through this FROM THE BEGINNING. 

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