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Posted
17 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I tend to agree.  And that nature of their crimes differs a great deal.  I tend to think the Nixon pardon was the right thing to do.  I do not think it is the right thing to do here, or any other method by which Trump avoids prosecution.

I’m not convinced that the Nixon pardon was the right thing to do. Maybe if Tricky Dick had been made to pay for his crimes, Trump never would have gotten involved in politics.

Who knows? But maybe you’re right. And maybe it doesn’t really make much of a difference either way since many on the right have been nursing a grudge about that whole Watergate thing for so long and have spent their time since then paving the way for someone like Trump to come along and get away with far, far worse crimes. 

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Posted
13 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The fact of the matter is, for whatever reason, Trump doesn't have the documents anymore.

And, the government won't let him see them.

It can be kind of difficult to make reasoned arguments about the documents when you can't look at them.

The government has valid, rational reasons for not letting him see them, but that still doesn't change the fact that he can't see them.

The choice you want to make is deference to the government and no deference to Trump.  I get it.  

Trump argues no deference to the government and deference to him. That's bullshit.

This decision splits the baby, as judicial decisions tend to do.

If your kilo of coke gets seized by the police but you had jumbled your legal documents into the key, do you think any Joe citizen gets to put a full stop into the investigation of how they use that kilo to build a case?

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Posted
45 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The fact of the matter is, for whatever reason, Trump doesn't have the documents anymore.

And, the government won't let him see them.

It can be kind of difficult to make reasoned arguments about the documents when you can't look at them.

The government has valid, rational reasons for not letting him see them, but that still doesn't change the fact that he can't see them.

The choice you want to make is deference to the government and no deference to Trump.  I get it.  

Trump argues no deference to the government and deference to him. That's bullshit.

This decision splits the baby, as judicial decisions tend to do.

LOL he just had them in his possession for years. 

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Captainant said:

If your kilo of coke gets seized by the police but you had jumbled your legal documents into the key, do you think any Joe citizen gets to put a full stop into the investigation of how they use that kilo to build a case?

My hypothetical was cash from a robbery interspersed with attorney-client privileged documents, further where it can be alleged that some of the privileged correspondence was written on the bills.

Cocaine would be easy to segregate from documents.  A bunch of different documents, with at least potential for privilege claims, is a different kettle of fish.

Joe citizen would have the right to assert attorney client privilege if potentially attorney client documents were seized.  Period.  There are countless articles for criminal practitioners on the internet explaining this procedure.

Posted
5 minutes ago, Hookah Horns said:

LOL he just had them in his possession for years. 

True enough, but would you expect Joe citizen to be able to remember specific documents out of 11,000?

Want to try to make a privilege log from memory?

Posted
53 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The fact of the matter is, for whatever reason, Trump doesn't have the documents anymore.

And, the government won't let him see them.

It can be kind of difficult to make reasoned arguments about the documents when you can't look at them.

The government has valid, rational reasons for not letting him see them, but that still doesn't change the fact that he can't see them.

The choice you want to make is deference to the government and no deference to Trump.  I get it.  

Trump argues no deference to the government and deference to him. That's bullshit.

This decision splits the baby, as judicial decisions tend to do.

He'd probably try to flush them down the toilet. Or eat them.

Posted
Just now, C-Man said:

He'd probably try to flush them down the toilet. Or eat them.

No doubt, but this procedure largely or completely avoids that scenario as he would only get documents subject to court order for inspection or copies.

Posted
3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

True enough, but would you expect Joe citizen to be able to remember specific documents out of 11,000?

Want to try to make a privilege log from memory?

I wouldn’t expect Trump to remember 1 out of 5. 

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Posted
6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

True enough, but would you expect Joe citizen to be able to remember specific documents out of 11,000?

Want to try to make a privilege log from memory?

He's not just any citizen though. I was told he did better on his memory test than anyone in history.

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Posted
8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

True enough, but would you expect Joe citizen to be able to remember specific documents out of 11,000?

Want to try to make a privilege log from memory?

I found Trump’s memory log

Quote

Person

Woman

Man

Camera

TV

 

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Posted
5 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

How does a civil suit help anyone?

Dissolving the businesses and declaring the family can’t run any business in NY seems like a big deal for someone whose only qualifications for office was that he was a good business man. Plus she’s done all the groundwork and gift wrapped years of investigations materials to the feds. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

I'm all for anything at this point.  The more the better.  Something has to eventually stick, right?  RIGHT?

Yeah his reelection in 24 will stick. Can I have the top bunk at the concentration camp until oven day? 

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Dissolving the businesses and declaring the family can’t run any business in NY seems like a big deal for someone whose only qualifications for office was that he was a good business man. Plus she’s done all the groundwork and gift wrapped years of investigations materials to the feds. 

This right here.  And she has referred a lot of stuff to the IRS and SDNY.  Criminal charges will come out of those.  Trump has fucked around.  The finding out stage is commencing.

 

Ice Hockey 80S GIF by NHL

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Posted
4 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

This right here.  And she has referred a lot of stuff to the IRS and SDNY.  Criminal charges will come out of those.  Trump has fucked around.  The finding out stage is commencing.

 

Ice Hockey 80S GIF by NHL

I wish I had your optimism

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Posted

Maybe it's taxes that finally do him in, 'cause I'm losing faith in selling classified secrets to the enemies of our allies.  

This NY deal though, at least gives me hope that I get watch Trump watch one of his children hauled off to prison, or even better-the former President gets to see one of his own children commit suicide.  Lit as Fuck.  

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Posted
12 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Aw fuck.  I just read some of the briefing in the 11th Circuit.

I think the part of the Special Master Order that enjoins the US from using the classified documents is appealable, as it is an injunction.

Orders appointing special masters, however, are not appealable.

So this is a mixture of appealable and not appealable.  Even if I trusted the 11th Circuit, and there's still a decent chance of a non-Trumpy panel, and a chance that a Trumpy panel isn't in the bag, I'm not sure the law is going to be on the gubmint's side on this one.  However, with respect to the injunction on the classified documents, the appeals court would have jurisdiction to stay/dissolve that, while leaving the special master review in place.  I'm trying to puzzle out how that works.

So, don't get your hopes up.

non-lawyer Surly CR posters:

attorneys-bluth.gif

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Posted
1 hour ago, The Dog said:

in other news - George Conway got himself a Truth account:

 

Someone needs to remind George that Nazis pronounce W's as V's.

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Posted
3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Trump has a belief that as soon as he announces his '24 candidacy, the DOJ has to back off him. Hence the need for delays. There are stories that he's held off because the GOP national party has asked him to do so until at least after the midterms, and they've backed that up with only agreeing to pay some of his legal bills as long as he's not a declared candidate.

Plan B & C for Trump is to either win in '24, or give support to DeSantis in exchange for a pardon.

 

He has to keep the grift going for as long as he can because he needs money

Posted
4 minutes ago, trauma babe said:

No one verifies shit like this when the applications are submitted?

Yeah, learn me on this. For banking, loans, etc can businesses just flat out lie about real estate valuations without any check?  I thought that was all public database type stuff / appraisal based etc.  Could he not just "find" someone who agreed with him otherwise? Like what is the basis of he grossly over valued it if it is subjective??



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