A story about a pathetic man's downfall [34 Felony Convictions]

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13525]

5 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

I’m Pretty sure his grave stone is going to say “here lies president covfefe.  Many people are saying he was the bigliest president ever.  He is survived by his wife ivanka “

 

[Neonmoon 38127]

This is a pretty good summary 

 

[YGIFS 19447]

Oh here I thought she was named Judge Cannon, as in like 'Cannon of Law.'  Turns out, it's pronounced like Judge "Qanon", like "cua" unlike "Cunt" sound like Cannon.  

 

my BAD

[TwiceHorn 31017]

1 hour ago, trauma babe said:

WHAT IN THE FUCK

Well, the reality of the matter is both Dearie and Cannon are pretty much making this up as they go along.  There's no laws or precedents to follow.  There's not even necessarily an overarching goal to the thing, except to sort and evaluate the documents.

Dearie was clearly requiring more than was required by the order appointing him.  That's not wrong, per se, but it's up to the appointing judge to decide whether that's ok or not.  There is no law anywhere that says Dearie was right and Cannon is wrong.  It's pretty much entirely within their discretion.

So, Cannon is depriving Dearie of some opportunities to make Trump look like shit.  That sucks.

The government lost some credibility by proposing a fast schedule and then having to move to delay it fucking twice in a matter of days, even if it was Trump's fault (that's not 100% clear actually). So, either an ongoing series of deadline extensions, or poof just move it all back a couple of weeks to something less ambitious.

Odds are decentish that the 11th dumps the whole procedure before it finishes. 

[henrygandorf 29169]

i mean, nobody believes him and "they planted stuff" doesn't seem to be part of the legal case, so does it even matter if he doesn't answer?

the question itself almost seemed rhetorical.

[TwiceHorn 31017]

3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i mean, nobody believes him and "they planted stuff" doesn't seem to be part of the legal case, so does it even matter if he doesn't answer?

the question itself almost seemed rhetorical.

Yeah, the only time that really credibly comes up is when a cop or somebody tattles or confesses.  Although the allegations of planting were stupid and unsupported, it does seem to be a bit of a forced stretch at this early juncture to force someone to say "planted/not planted" as much as I like the general idea.

Edited September 29, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[henrygandorf 29169]

25 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, the only time that really credibly comes up is when a cop or somebody tattles or confesses.  Although the allegations of planting were stupid and unsupported, it does seem to be a bit of a forced stretch at this early juncture to force someone to say "planted/not planted" as much as I like the general idea.

well it seemed like dearie was trying to cut through some of the bullshit (like imaginary declassifying or planted evidence) so he could get a better handle on what he was dealing with.  this is yet more evidence that you can't cut through the bullshit when the entire thing is bullshit. 

since neither one of those was going to be part of any reasonable legal argument, this doesn't seem to do much more than further embarrass cannon.  trump was never going to go on the record with either claim now, and i seriously doubt he'll try it later either. 

['stache 21726]

If the Circuit Court had balls they'd remove her from the case.

Edit: I think the Circuit can, but if nothing else the Chief District Judge can reassign the case. They can come up with whatever pretext they want but she's a complete embarrassment for that court in a very public way.

Edited September 29, 2022 by 'stache

[TwiceHorn 31017]

Just now, henrygandorf said:

well it seemed like dearie was trying to cut through some of the bullshit (like imaginary declassifying or planted evidence) so he could get a better handle on what he was dealing with.  this is yet more evidence that you can't cut through the bullshit when the entire thing is bullshit. 

since neither one of those was going to be part of any reasonable legal argument, this doesn't seem to do much more than further embarrass cannon.  trump was never going to go on the record with either claim now, and i seriously doubt he'll try it later either. 

Yep.  Although I admire Dearie's effort, it is kind of hard to impose order on utter bullshit.

And yeah, it is fairly telling about Cannon.  While Dearie's "extras" were beyond (I'd submit narrower) than Cannon's order, they were reasonable and not inconsistent with it.  By striking them without any basis other than "that's not what my order said," she is showing herself more transparently to favor Trump in the deal.

And the government's response was pretty flippant.  They should have said something like "The purpose of the district court's order is to impose accountability on the DOJ's search and transparency on the documents seized and whether they are being handled with due regard for the plaintiffs rights.  Similarly, the plaintiff should not be permitted to cast extrajudicial aspersions on (ie make shit up and tweet/truth about) the search without addressing them in this matter.  The Special Master's orders serve the latter purpose and should be maintained."

She'd have been hard pressed to respond to that.

[TwiceHorn 31017]

3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

If the Circuit Court had balls they'd remove her from the case.

First I think they have to reverse her order completely.

Someone somewhere recently mentioned that one federal? (I think) court of appeals routinely remands reversals to a different judge.

[Dahobbs 17314]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

First I think they have to reverse her order completely.

Someone somewhere recently mentioned that one federal? (I think) court of appeals routinely remands reversals to a different judge.

It happens routinely in the District of Utah. But it isn't the 10th Circuit doing it, but rather a practice within the district. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19097]

45 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, the reality of the matter is both Dearie and Cannon are pretty much making this up as they go along.  There's no laws or precedents to follow.  There's not even necessarily an overarching goal to the thing, except to sort and evaluate the documents.

Dearie was clearly requiring more than was required by the order appointing him.  That's not wrong, per se, but it's up to the appointing judge to decide whether that's ok or not.  There is no law anywhere that says Dearie was right and Cannon is wrong.  It's pretty much entirely within their discretion.

So, Cannon is depriving Dearie of some opportunities to make Trump look like shit.  That sucks.

The government lost some credibility by proposing a fast schedule and then having to move to delay it fucking twice in a matter of days, even if it was Trump's fault (that's not 100% clear actually). So, either an ongoing series of deadline extensions, or poof just move it all back a couple of weeks to something less ambitious.

Odds are decentish that the 11th dumps the whole procedure before it finishes. 

Just fucking stop already. Your profession is a god damn joke and deep down you know it.  You cannot explain this shit away.

It’s fucked, game over.

[Ghost of LL 15321]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

First I think they have to reverse her order completely.

Someone somewhere recently mentioned that one federal? (I think) court of appeals routinely remands reversals to a different judge.

The Fifth has pretty regularly reassigned cases from Judge Hughes.

[chainsaw 9791]

I really think if someone did some digging into her past there will be some skeletons and a thick link between those skeletons and Trumpworld.

[TwiceHorn 31017]

14 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Just fucking stop already. Your profession is a god damn joke and deep down you know it.  You cannot explain this shit away.

It’s fucked, game over.

Give the  shit a rest.

Only the lawyers and judges you don't like are a "god damn joke" and you ignore all the government lawyers and Dearie and others that are trying to do the right thing and mostly succeeding.

All the bullshit Trump election disputes got thrown out because  .  . . lawyers.

All the bullshit Trump lawyers are facing disbarment and sanctions because  . . . lawyers.

This search warrant wouldn't have happened without  . . . lawyers.

The district courts order wouldn't have been stayed without  . . . lawyers.

All you can do is bitch about delay and the lawyers you don't like and try to extrapolate that into some outraged nonsense based on your "gimme justice now, why not done" shit.

Edited September 29, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Serak The Preparer 3416]

13 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Give the  shit a rest.

Only the lawyers and judges you don't like are a "god damn joke" and you ignore all the government lawyers and Dearie and others that are trying to do the right thing and mostly succeeding.

All the bullshit Trump election disputes got thrown out because  .  . . lawyers.

All the bullshit Trump lawyers are facing disbarment and sanctions because  . . . lawyers.

This search warrant wouldn't have happened without  . . . lawyers.

The district courts order wouldn't have been stayed without  . . . lawyers.

All you can do is bitch about delay and the lawyers you don't like and try to extrapolate that into some outraged nonsense based on your "gimme justice now, why not done" shit.

To be fair, there should be a "he needed killing" clause for Trump in particular. Not literally, and only I should be the decider on when the clause is brought to bear, but I think it would improve the justice system a whole helluva lot.

[TwiceHorn 31017]

Let me say something that laypeople probably don't realize.

If you closely watch any legal proceeding, a trial, a hearing, etc. as we're doing to these things, it's a whipsaw, even for the lawyers participating.  And having a rooting interest in the outcome makes it that much worse.

Lawyers trying a case have to listen to the other side, almost uninterrupted, for hours and days.  it can kind of beat you down and you feel like you're losing,  Then you get your turn, and it's quite the opposite.  Euphoric.  We just fucking kicked their ass.  The truth lies somewhere in the middle, and hopefully closer to your view than not.

It's a very bipolar experience, except maybe in something like the Alex Jones trials.  Those kind of nonstop asswhippings of the opponent are rare.  Even when the "opponent" is a clear piece of shit, like Alex Jones, it's a really special case where they fuck it up that bad.

So, it's up, it's down, it's a lot of "woohoo" and "aw fuck."  Winning and losing battles before you win the war.  And so many times, the win comes in a way you never originally envisioned and might momentarily want to call a loss or a Pyrrhic victory.

So, as a lawyer, you learn not to get too wrapped up in the little victories and setbacks along the way and keep moving toward the end goal.

Edited September 30, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Gil Bang 25831]

going back to "only the best people"

 

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

going back to "only the best people"

 

 

I'm sorry, I was told that stuff was the domain of a left-wing deep-state Washington D.C. cabal that secretly runs the entire country.

[henrygandorf 29169]

35 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Let me say something that laypeople probably don't realize.

If you closely watch any legal proceeding, a trial, a hearing, etc. as we're doing to these things, it's a whipsaw, even for the lawyers participating.  And having a rooting outcome makes it that much worse.

Lawyers trying a case have to listen to the other side, almost uninterrupted, for hours and days.  it can kind of beat you down and you feel like you're losing,  Then you get your turn, and it's quite the opposite.  Euphoric.  We just fucking kicked their ass.  The truth lies somewhere in the middle, and hopefully closer to your view than not.

It's a very bipolar experience, except maybe in something like the Alex Jones trials.  Those kind of nonstop asswhippings of the opponent are rare.  Even when the
"opponent" is a clear piece of shit, like Alex Jones, it's a really special case where they fuck it up that bad.

So, it's up, it's down, it's a lot of "woohoo" and "aw fuck."  Winning and losing battles before you win the war.  And so many times, the win comes in a way you never originally envisioned and might momentarily want to call a loss or a Pyrrhic victory.

So, as a lawyer, you learn not to get too wrapped up in the little victories and setbacks along the way and keep moving toward the end goal.

you lost me at whipsaw.

[Born to Run 6417]

Me most of the time in this thread:

I did a year at UT Law before deciding it wasn't for me. This thread really validates that decision.

[Underdog 28371]

Odds Waterhead Kirk has some kiddie porn in his possession? 

[horn4life 3749]

Well, she is one of His Judges....

[CTC2 2717]

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

going back to "only the best people"

 

 

Every allegation is a confession.  Where do you think they got the whole pedo Q stuff?  

[Bama Chick 28596]

The Champions Grill at Trump Doral has a very good deconstructed burger. 

I FUCKING TOLD Y’ALL

[miguelito 11151]

Orange whipsaw?  Orange whipsaw?

 

3 orange whipsaws.

 

[Woland 729]

I really think if someone did some digging into her past there will be some skeletons and a thick link between those skeletons and Trumpworld.

She received a letter with a news clipping about the Skripal poisonings. It’s stupid conspiracy theory, but I’m sticking with it.

[Pato del Muerto 52225]

1 hour ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I'm sorry, I was told that stuff was the domain of a left-wing deep-state Washington D.C. cabal that secretly runs the entire country.

How do you think they are able to so easily get the stuff to plant on all these god-fearing Republican computers?

[TexEx15 17400]

47 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

I FUCKING TOLD Y’ALL

[brakeman 28195]

4 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

but why?

[TwiceHorn 31017]

1 hour ago, Bama Chick said:

I FUCKING TOLD Y’ALL

Bozo

[WhatTheBuck 28694]

Come on, Aileen. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19097]

3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Give the  shit a rest.

Only the lawyers and judges you don't like are a "god damn joke" and you ignore all the government lawyers and Dearie and others that are trying to do the right thing and mostly succeeding.

All the bullshit Trump election disputes got thrown out because  .  . . lawyers.

All the bullshit Trump lawyers are facing disbarment and sanctions because  . . . lawyers.

This search warrant wouldn't have happened without  . . . lawyers.

The district courts order wouldn't have been stayed without  . . . lawyers.

All you can do is bitch about delay and the lawyers you don't like and try to extrapolate that into some outraged nonsense based on your "gimme justice now, why not done" shit.

Aren’t you an IP lawyer?  Why don’t you go back to your cubicle and we’ll call you when we find someone selling counterfeit surly hats.  

I’m not bitching this time about delays, I’m raising fucking hell over an obviously corrupt judge bending over backwards to undermine justice.  The same fucking judge you are around the way defending after every god damn ruling.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13525]

3 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

going back to "only the best people"

 

 

Proud Boys protesting a drag show incoming. 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11667]

4 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

The Fifth has pretty regularly reassigned cases from Judge Hughes.

Yeah, but that’s cheeky and fun. This is cruel and tragic. 

[TwiceHorn 31017]

18 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Aren’t you an IP lawyer?  Why don’t you go back to your cubicle and we’ll call you when we find someone selling counterfeit surly hats.  

I’m not bitching this time about delays, I’m raising fucking hell over an obviously corrupt judge bending over backwards to undermine justice.  The same fucking judge you are around the way defending after every god damn ruling.

Right.  One judge, already slapped down in part by three others.

And, in the final analysis, it's not that big a deal.  It's just not.

[Mole 4318]

The thing that’s so vexing to non-lawyers isn’t the delay, it’s the absurdity of treating such preposterous claims as serious issues to discuss. Hearing things about “uncharted legal waters,” or “open legal question” when it comes to things that are on their face moronic is akin to having an existential crisis. The vanity of pretending that this fatuousness requires some somber, legal analysis and explanation is just too much for the non-legal mind to fathom.

Whatever the final result, it feels like it’s already baked in and we’re just watching it play out. All of the legal reasoning is just trying to come up with some pretext to justify however this all plays out. I get that it’s necessary, but it’s necessary like the coordinator search will be in a few months. It’s meaningless; all is vanity.

[TexasEd 8057]

11 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

I didn't watch it - was this live? could they not have done another take? and if it was live, jesus, that's like 1000x more tacky. what human excrement

 

10 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

i would assume the other takes were far worse.

Yesterday is a hard word for him.

 

 

[Willfully Horn 7911]

3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

And, in the final analysis, it's not that big a deal.  It's just not.

A definitive moment in a court of law where Trump’s claims are put to a truth test, at election time, seems like a big deal to me. I’d be sympathetic to the argument that it is more grave matter than absent big deal.

 

[Willfully Horn 7911]

6 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

A definitive moment in a court of law where Trump’s claims are put to a truth test, at election time, seems like a big deal to me. I’d be sympathetic to the argument that it is more grave matter than absent big deal.

We  are free to find cover for Cannon’s rulings in the novel and uncharted. We are just as free to suspect her decisions were influenced by national politics. No precedent and all.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Willfully Horn

[Captainant 27239]

12 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Let me say something that laypeople probably don't realize.

If you closely watch any legal proceeding, a trial, a hearing, etc. as we're doing to these things, it's a whipsaw, even for the lawyers participating.  And having a rooting interest in the outcome makes it that much worse.

Lawyers trying a case have to listen to the other side, almost uninterrupted, for hours and days.  it can kind of beat you down and you feel like you're losing,  Then you get your turn, and it's quite the opposite.  Euphoric.  We just fucking kicked their ass.  The truth lies somewhere in the middle, and hopefully closer to your view than not.

It's a very bipolar experience, except maybe in something like the Alex Jones trials.  Those kind of nonstop asswhippings of the opponent are rare.  Even when the "opponent" is a clear piece of shit, like Alex Jones, it's a really special case where they fuck it up that bad.

So, it's up, it's down, it's a lot of "woohoo" and "aw fuck."  Winning and losing battles before you win the war.  And so many times, the win comes in a way you never originally envisioned and might momentarily want to call a loss or a Pyrrhic victory.

So, as a lawyer, you learn not to get too wrapped up in the little victories and setbacks along the way and keep moving toward the end goal.

This is the legal equivalent of "yeah I know we lost to Kansas last year, but we're gonna win the chip this year!" You're banking on a judicial system that isn't beholden to trump and isn't calvinball. That it's even a question is a major problem. That this mere citizen is so more equal then everyone else to get so much special treatment IS the problem my dude. 

What's the end goal? Justice for trump's crimes? By the time he's done delaying, he'll be dead or the statute of limitations will have ran and the legal system will get pantsed by trump again. And you'll have an explanation and tuttut for everyone who's rightfully concerned with our democracy and justice system kowtowing to a fascist demagogue

[Pig Bellmont 8662]

14 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, the reality of the matter is both Dearie and Cannon are pretty much making this up as they go along.  There's no laws or precedents to follow. 

There are laws and precedents with Special Masters reviews, fact finding and issuing of procedural orders. Her appointment order relied on that case law. She’s playing fucking Calvin ball

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Pig Bellmont

[TwiceHorn 31017]

8 hours ago, Mole said:

Whatever the final result, it feels like it’s already baked in and we’re just watching it play out.

That isn't exactly true.  Although something like Dobbs is very disheartening, the law works out against Trump most of the time, mostly because he's such an outrageous liar and person who thoroughly lacks integrity.

[TwiceHorn 31017]

24 minutes ago, Captainant said:

This is the legal equivalent of "yeah I know we lost to Kansas last year, but we're gonna win the chip this year!" You're banking on a judicial system that isn't beholden to trump and isn't calvinball. That it's even a question is a major problem. That this mere citizen is so more equal then everyone else to get so much special treatment IS the problem my dude. 

What's the end goal? Justice for trump's crimes? By the time he's done delaying, he'll be dead or the statute of limitations will have ran and the legal system will get pantsed by trump again. And you'll have an explanation and tuttut for everyone who's rightfully concerned with our democracy and justice system kowtowing to a fascist demagogue

No, it's an explanation that not every little setback along a legal path is the end of the world.

It's really simple.

To apply the football analogy to court observation, there are a lot of Greenspoints in here pronouncing "ballgame" in the first quarter.

Edited September 30, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Bookman 4600]

Being a liar and lacking integrity gives Trump a huge, huge advantage in our legal system.

[TwiceHorn 31017]

5 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

A definitive moment in a court of law where Trump’s claims are put to a truth test, at election time, seems like a big deal to me. I’d be sympathetic to the argument that it is more grave matter than absent big deal.

 

Well, as gandorf wisely observes, had Dearie's order remained in place, Trump would have not taken a position on anything that required evidence. And he's still not. And Dearie is still not going to tolerate "attorney argument" without evidence, either way.  And neither would most judges.

Where this actually hurts a little is in the future, where Trump tries to squawk about planted evidence or declassification.  If Dearie's "is that your final answer" language had stayed in place, the argument that Trump had his opportunity and passed it up would be a little stronger, but it's still there. 

[TwiceHorn 31017]

8 minutes ago, Bookman said:

Being a liar and lacking integrity gives Trump a huge, huge advantage in our legal system.

It can certainly work in a civil case that never sees trial or a dispositive motion and that can be relatively quickly settled as soon as things get dicey.

It's not working out so well for Alex Jones, who took it too far and lost his opportunity to settle.

It's not going to work so well in a criminal case.

Edited September 30, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Captainant 27239]

13 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

And Dearie is still not going to tolerate "attorney argument" without evidence, either way.

Fortunate for trump that he's got cannon in his pocket to do exactly that and throw up every procedural delay that a district judge can to further deny justice from the American people. Doesn't make a shit if dearie won't tolerate it, cannon will overrule him and allow it

It'd be one thing if trump were raising genuine issues in his appeals and filings. But he's not. It's completely specious and farcical. And yet you think that it's unreasonable and impatient to be frustrated and concerned by these completely fabricated delays? 

As it stands, district judge cannon can do whatever the fuck she wants until removed, and it's up to the court system to bat a thousand to beat her and trump's delaying effort. Because otherwise any possible loose thread will be exploited in bad faith (just like we're seeing now) to further delay things and run the clock. It doesn't matter if trump has no evidence to back his claims, cannon (and you in this thread lol) will treat them as legally salient and incredibly important filings, despite being filled with zero actual content that's supported by more than rhetoric. 

I know that this is but one case and one judge, but it just takes one of these instances to completely break the way the law works. And we're seeing it in action right now. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Captainant

[TwiceHorn 31017]

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I know that this is but one case and one judge, but it just takes one of these instances to completely break the way the law works. And we're seeing it in action right now. 

Tell us how this is breaking how the law works.

I'm not saying you can't be irritated or distressed by the delay or the fact that Trump isn't cut off at the knees every time he makes a filing.  

But the incessant wailing and gnashing of teeth about the entire system being corrupt and fucked and he's going to get away with everything, wah wah wah gets tiresome and really is very Greenspoint.

[Captainant 27239]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Tell us how this is breaking how the law works.

Well in most cases, a judge would require a petitioner to back their claims with evidence. Cannon has decided this step is optional for trump, and future courts either must treat that assertion equally or go through a long process to overturn that "fact". Since district judges are supposed to be fact finders and all that and our system is set up with that inherent trust which is being exploited by trump and cannon to delay and obstruct this criminal investigation 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Captainant