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A story about a pathetic man's downfall [34 Felony Convictions]


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1 hour ago, trauma babe said:

WHAT IN THE FUCK

Well, the reality of the matter is both Dearie and Cannon are pretty much making this up as they go along.  There's no laws or precedents to follow.  There's not even necessarily an overarching goal to the thing, except to sort and evaluate the documents.

Dearie was clearly requiring more than was required by the order appointing him.  That's not wrong, per se, but it's up to the appointing judge to decide whether that's ok or not.  There is no law anywhere that says Dearie was right and Cannon is wrong.  It's pretty much entirely within their discretion.

So, Cannon is depriving Dearie of some opportunities to make Trump look like shit.  That sucks.

The government lost some credibility by proposing a fast schedule and then having to move to delay it fucking twice in a matter of days, even if it was Trump's fault (that's not 100% clear actually). So, either an ongoing series of deadline extensions, or poof just move it all back a couple of weeks to something less ambitious.

Odds are decentish that the 11th dumps the whole procedure before it finishes. 

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3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i mean, nobody believes him and "they planted stuff" doesn't seem to be part of the legal case, so does it even matter if he doesn't answer?

the question itself almost seemed rhetorical.

Yeah, the only time that really credibly comes up is when a cop or somebody tattles or confesses.  Although the allegations of planting were stupid and unsupported, it does seem to be a bit of a forced stretch at this early juncture to force someone to say "planted/not planted" as much as I like the general idea.

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25 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, the only time that really credibly comes up is when a cop or somebody tattles or confesses.  Although the allegations of planting were stupid and unsupported, it does seem to be a bit of a forced stretch at this early juncture to force someone to say "planted/not planted" as much as I like the general idea.

well it seemed like dearie was trying to cut through some of the bullshit (like imaginary declassifying or planted evidence) so he could get a better handle on what he was dealing with.  this is yet more evidence that you can't cut through the bullshit when the entire thing is bullshit. 

since neither one of those was going to be part of any reasonable legal argument, this doesn't seem to do much more than further embarrass cannon.  trump was never going to go on the record with either claim now, and i seriously doubt he'll try it later either. 

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If the Circuit Court had balls they'd remove her from the case.

Edit: I think the Circuit can, but if nothing else the Chief District Judge can reassign the case. They can come up with whatever pretext they want but she's a complete embarrassment for that court in a very public way.

Edited by 'stache
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Just now, henrygandorf said:

well it seemed like dearie was trying to cut through some of the bullshit (like imaginary declassifying or planted evidence) so he could get a better handle on what he was dealing with.  this is yet more evidence that you can't cut through the bullshit when the entire thing is bullshit. 

since neither one of those was going to be part of any reasonable legal argument, this doesn't seem to do much more than further embarrass cannon.  trump was never going to go on the record with either claim now, and i seriously doubt he'll try it later either. 

Yep.  Although I admire Dearie's effort, it is kind of hard to impose order on utter bullshit.

And yeah, it is fairly telling about Cannon.  While Dearie's "extras" were beyond (I'd submit narrower) than Cannon's order, they were reasonable and not inconsistent with it.  By striking them without any basis other than "that's not what my order said," she is showing herself more transparently to favor Trump in the deal.

And the government's response was pretty flippant.  They should have said something like "The purpose of the district court's order is to impose accountability on the DOJ's search and transparency on the documents seized and whether they are being handled with due regard for the plaintiffs rights.  Similarly, the plaintiff should not be permitted to cast extrajudicial aspersions on (ie make shit up and tweet/truth about) the search without addressing them in this matter.  The Special Master's orders serve the latter purpose and should be maintained."

She'd have been hard pressed to respond to that.

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3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

If the Circuit Court had balls they'd remove her from the case.

First I think they have to reverse her order completely.

Someone somewhere recently mentioned that one federal? (I think) court of appeals routinely remands reversals to a different judge.

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Just now, TwiceHorn said:

First I think they have to reverse her order completely.

Someone somewhere recently mentioned that one federal? (I think) court of appeals routinely remands reversals to a different judge.

It happens routinely in the District of Utah. But it isn't the 10th Circuit doing it, but rather a practice within the district. 

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13 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Give the  shit a rest.

Only the lawyers and judges you don't like are a "god damn joke" and you ignore all the government lawyers and Dearie and others that are trying to do the right thing and mostly succeeding.

All the bullshit Trump election disputes got thrown out because  .  . . lawyers.

All the bullshit Trump lawyers are facing disbarment and sanctions because  . . . lawyers.

This search warrant wouldn't have happened without  . . . lawyers.

The district courts order wouldn't have been stayed without  . . . lawyers.

All you can do is bitch about delay and the lawyers you don't like and try to extrapolate that into some outraged nonsense based on your "gimme justice now, why not done" shit.

To be fair, there should be a "he needed killing" clause for Trump in particular. Not literally, and only I should be the decider on when the clause is brought to bear, but I think it would improve the justice system a whole helluva lot.

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6 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

going back to "only the best people"

 

 

I'm sorry, I was told that stuff was the domain of a left-wing deep-state Washington D.C. cabal that secretly runs the entire country.

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35 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Let me say something that laypeople probably don't realize.

If you closely watch any legal proceeding, a trial, a hearing, etc. as we're doing to these things, it's a whipsaw, even for the lawyers participating.  And having a rooting outcome makes it that much worse.

Lawyers trying a case have to listen to the other side, almost uninterrupted, for hours and days.  it can kind of beat you down and you feel like you're losing,  Then you get your turn, and it's quite the opposite.  Euphoric.  We just fucking kicked their ass.  The truth lies somewhere in the middle, and hopefully closer to your view than not.

It's a very bipolar experience, except maybe in something like the Alex Jones trials.  Those kind of nonstop asswhippings of the opponent are rare.  Even when the
"opponent" is a clear piece of shit, like Alex Jones, it's a really special case where they fuck it up that bad.

So, it's up, it's down, it's a lot of "woohoo" and "aw fuck."  Winning and losing battles before you win the war.  And so many times, the win comes in a way you never originally envisioned and might momentarily want to call a loss or a Pyrrhic victory.

So, as a lawyer, you learn not to get too wrapped up in the little victories and setbacks along the way and keep moving toward the end goal.

you lost me at whipsaw.

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I really think if someone did some digging into her past there will be some skeletons and a thick link between those skeletons and Trumpworld.

She received a letter with a news clipping about the Skripal poisonings. It’s stupid conspiracy theory, but I’m sticking with it.
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18 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Aren’t you an IP lawyer?  Why don’t you go back to your cubicle and we’ll call you when we find someone selling counterfeit surly hats.  

I’m not bitching this time about delays, I’m raising fucking hell over an obviously corrupt judge bending over backwards to undermine justice.  The same fucking judge you are around the way defending after every god damn ruling.

Right.  One judge, already slapped down in part by three others.

And, in the final analysis, it's not that big a deal.  It's just not.

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11 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

I didn't watch it - was this live? could they not have done another take? and if it was live, jesus, that's like 1000x more tacky. what human excrement

 

10 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

i would assume the other takes were far worse.

Yesterday is a hard word for him.

 

 

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3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

And, in the final analysis, it's not that big a deal.  It's just not.

A definitive moment in a court of law where Trump’s claims are put to a truth test, at election time, seems like a big deal to me. I’d be sympathetic to the argument that it is more grave matter than absent big deal.

 

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6 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

A definitive moment in a court of law where Trump’s claims are put to a truth test, at election time, seems like a big deal to me. I’d be sympathetic to the argument that it is more grave matter than absent big deal.

We  are free to find cover for Cannon’s rulings in the novel and uncharted. We are just as free to suspect her decisions were influenced by national politics. No precedent and all.

Edited by Willfully Horn
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14 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, the reality of the matter is both Dearie and Cannon are pretty much making this up as they go along.  There's no laws or precedents to follow. 

There are laws and precedents with Special Masters reviews, fact finding and issuing of procedural orders. Her appointment order relied on that case law. She’s playing fucking Calvin ball

 

Edited by Pig Bellmont
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8 hours ago, Mole said:

Whatever the final result, it feels like it’s already baked in and we’re just watching it play out.

That isn't exactly true.  Although something like Dobbs is very disheartening, the law works out against Trump most of the time, mostly because he's such an outrageous liar and person who thoroughly lacks integrity.

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24 minutes ago, Captainant said:

This is the legal equivalent of "yeah I know we lost to Kansas last year, but we're gonna win the chip this year!" You're banking on a judicial system that isn't beholden to trump and isn't calvinball. That it's even a question is a major problem. That this mere citizen is so more equal then everyone else to get so much special treatment IS the problem my dude. 

What's the end goal? Justice for trump's crimes? By the time he's done delaying, he'll be dead or the statute of limitations will have ran and the legal system will get pantsed by trump again. And you'll have an explanation and tuttut for everyone who's rightfully concerned with our democracy and justice system kowtowing to a fascist demagogue

No, it's an explanation that not every little setback along a legal path is the end of the world.

It's really simple.

To apply the football analogy to court observation, there are a lot of Greenspoints in here pronouncing "ballgame" in the first quarter.

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5 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

A definitive moment in a court of law where Trump’s claims are put to a truth test, at election time, seems like a big deal to me. I’d be sympathetic to the argument that it is more grave matter than absent big deal.

 

Well, as gandorf wisely observes, had Dearie's order remained in place, Trump would have not taken a position on anything that required evidence. And he's still not. And Dearie is still not going to tolerate "attorney argument" without evidence, either way.  And neither would most judges.

Where this actually hurts a little is in the future, where Trump tries to squawk about planted evidence or declassification.  If Dearie's "is that your final answer" language had stayed in place, the argument that Trump had his opportunity and passed it up would be a little stronger, but it's still there. 

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8 minutes ago, Bookman said:

Being a liar and lacking integrity gives Trump a huge, huge advantage in our legal system.

It can certainly work in a civil case that never sees trial or a dispositive motion and that can be relatively quickly settled as soon as things get dicey.

It's not working out so well for Alex Jones, who took it too far and lost his opportunity to settle.

It's not going to work so well in a criminal case.

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3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I know that this is but one case and one judge, but it just takes one of these instances to completely break the way the law works. And we're seeing it in action right now. 

Tell us how this is breaking how the law works.

I'm not saying you can't be irritated or distressed by the delay or the fact that Trump isn't cut off at the knees every time he makes a filing.  

But the incessant wailing and gnashing of teeth about the entire system being corrupt and fucked and he's going to get away with everything, wah wah wah gets tiresome and really is very Greenspoint.

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5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Tell us how this is breaking how the law works.

Well in most cases, a judge would require a petitioner to back their claims with evidence. Cannon has decided this step is optional for trump, and future courts either must treat that assertion equally or go through a long process to overturn that "fact". Since district judges are supposed to be fact finders and all that and our system is set up with that inherent trust which is being exploited by trump and cannon to delay and obstruct this criminal investigation 

Edited by Captainant
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