A story about a pathetic man's downfall [34 Felony Convictions]

[Js1 85439]

3 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

that's not what the polls say.  they seem to pretty consistently say haley outperforms trump.  i think that is a result of for every MAGAt that disappears, wayward suburbanite backfills the gap. 

One thing that Haley has when it comes to the polling is as the Trump alternate.  It's like the polls showing Bernie beating Trump in 2016.

We don't know that will be the case when she has to appeal to the MAGAs to try to get them to show up.  We also don't know if Bernie could have gotten the AA vote like Hillary did.

Haley 2024 and Bernie 2016 are like the Texas backup QB.  He's super popular until he gets into the game (lol Murphy)

Edited February 6 by Js1

[Constant 6748]

I’ve been reading ‘The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich,’ and it’s interesting to see the similarities between Hitler and his cronies rise to power and the actions of Trump and his cronies in America. It all feels very familiar. That little bald bitch Stephen Miller must have Goebbels’ face on his bedsheets.

[Brisketexan 105161]

1 minute ago, Constant said:

I’ve been reading ‘The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich,’ and it’s interesting to see the similarities between Hitler and his cronies rise to power and the actions of Trump and his cronies in America. It all feels very familiar. That little bald bitch Stephen Miller must have Goebbels’ face on his bedsheets.

As has been noted around here, Godwin's law has been repealed in its entirety.  The parallels are so fucking direct that it seems scripted.  Yes, when you read that book - or when you walk through the German history museum in Berlin, which starkly lays out how the nazis came to power, and the role of German society in that rise, you can't help but see your hands shaking as you think "holy fucking shit.  It's all happening here, and now."  The playbook -- they are running it.  And...IT WORKS.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20450]

['stache 21824]

I like how nobody says anything about the clips all over the internet of Biden speaking clearly on important issues, but a few where his age/fatigue/stutter feature prominently "ehrmagerd I can't believe we have to vote for an senile guy." Listen to him more often, he knows his shit, and conveys it fine the vast majority of the time. He also has appointed smart competent people to do the hard work as any good leader would do, especially one that is older. If this was an open primary I'd probably lean towards a younger person, but the guy is the incumbent, he's done a good job by pretty much every metric, and he speaks clearly enough most of the time that I'm convinced he's fine mentally. But if there's any doubt whatsoever, he's not trump, who has was already a complete moron, he's now showing legit signs of dementia and total disconnect from reality. It's a pretty fucking easy choice.

[Js1 85439]

The 81 year old guy who appoints competent people and doesn’t pretend he knows everything or the 78 year old who thinks he’s smarter than the generals and appoints a brain surgeon to manage HUD who thinks the pyramids were grain silos?

[Constant 6748]

22 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

As has been noted around here, Godwin's law has been repealed in its entirety.  The parallels are so fucking direct that it seems scripted.  Yes, when you read that book - or when you walk through the German history museum in Berlin, which starkly lays out how the nazis came to power, and the role of German society in that rise, you can't help but see your hands shaking as you think "holy fucking shit.  It's all happening here, and now."  The playbook -- they are running it.  And...IT WORKS.

Yes, it is scary how much it works. 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

12 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I like how nobody says anything about the clips all over the internet of Biden speaking clearly on important issues, but a few where his age/fatigue/stutter feature prominently "ehrmagerd I can't believe we have to vote for an senile guy." Listen to him more often, he knows his shit, and conveys it fine the vast majority of the time. He also has appointed smart competent people to do the hard work as any good leader would do, especially one that is older. If this was an open primary I'd probably lean towards a younger person, but the guy is the incumbent, he's done a good job by pretty much every metric, and he speaks clearly enough most of the time that I'm convinced he's fine mentally. But if there's any doubt whatsoever, he's not trump, who has was already a complete moron, he's now showing legit signs of dementia and total disconnect from reality. It's a pretty fucking easy choice.

 

5 minutes ago, Js1 said:

The 81 year old guy who appoints competent people and doesn’t pretend he knows everything or the 78 year old who thinks he’s smarter than the generals and appoints a brain surgeon to manage HUD who thinks the pyramids were grain silos?

I think y’all just use this board for different reasons than other people do. I like to read it as a source of news, not because I feel some need to advocate for one side of the other. I know who I’m going to vote for. Biden. Of course. It’s just as clear this time as it was last time as it was the time before that who the better candidate is. But that doesn’t keep me from discussing the news aspect of this. And the news aspect of this is that the 81-year-old, who will be 85 at the end of the next term sure is acting like somebody that 81 right now.  Y’all just want to qualifier with every post that says “but of course he is still better than Trump.“

[Js1 85439]

Thank you for the story of how great and above everyone you are 

[Macanudo 12992]

2 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

It’ll be at Liberty or it won’t be affiliated with a school.

Hillsdale College or bust.

[YGIFS 19452]

1 hour ago, Constant said:

I’ve been reading ‘The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich,’ and it’s interesting to see the similarities between Hitler and his cronies rise to power and the actions of Trump and his cronies in America. It all feels very familiar. That little bald bitch Stephen Miller must have Goebbels’ face on his bedsheets.

that's a great read.  Three things that stood out to me in order to usurp the people that the Nazis did and what we're going to see more and more of unfurl here in our nation:

-Not just immigrants, but the evacuation of the elderly and disabled, all of whom are viewed as a drain on the state.  The last to vote for Trump will be the first to die.  

-We convince the truly dedicated to divorce/disown/report their immigrant spouses and relatives as enemies of the state to demonstrate their patriotism and dedication to the state.  A number of SS officers saw it as a badge of honor to disavow spouses and family members who were not of pure German blood.  They were promoted, frequently, as a result.

-Law enforcement officials.  They were co-opted from crime prevention and public safety to the predominant wing of domestic deportation and evacuation.  

We have always used the stupids to carry out our vision.  We are going to watch 25mm Americans turn on one another.  Because unlike the Mason-Dixon line, while they are filled with hate, they have no idea who to actually kill.  That's where people like me come in.  We have always been here.  From Cartaphilus to Kahn to Hitler.  We fix it so stupid people murder one another.  And we will always see our vision through because the one thing you can count out on when it comes to humans, is raging stupidity.  The digital media may have altered the game board a little bit, but in the end-we always scrub the bottom of humanity for this rock we call home.  And we will always will.  Some innocent people are going to die as a result, but we are going to watch millions of Maga minions die, if ever there were that many.   

[atomheartbevo 89735]

10 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

We are going to watch 25mm Americans turn on one another.  Because unlike the Mason-Dixon line, while they are filled with hate, they have no idea who to actually kill. 

We already saw them in action with the convoy at the border.  They were all live-streaming and pissed off at each other, because it seemed to be the only people in the convoy were social media influencers.  

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

6 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

that's a great read.  Three things that stood out to me in order to usurp the people that the Nazis did and what we're going to see more and more of unfurl here in our nation:

-Not just immigrants, but the evacuation of the elderly and disabled, all of whom are viewed as a drain on the state.  The last to vote for Trump will be the first to die.  

-We convince the truly dedicated to divorce/disown/report their immigrant spouses and relatives as enemies of the state to demonstrate their patriotism and dedication to the state.  A number of SS officers saw it as a badge of honor to disavow spouses and family members who were not of pure German blood.  They were promoted, frequently, as a result.

-Law enforcement officials.  They were co-opted from crime prevention and public safety to the predominant wing of domestic deportation and evacuation.  

We have always used the stupids to carry out our vision.  We are going to watch 25mm Americans turn on one another.  Because unlike the Mason-Dixon line, while they are filled with hate, they have no idea who to actually kill.  That's where people like me come in.  We have always been here.  From Cartaphilus to Kahn to Hitler.  We fix it so stupid people murder one another.  And we will always see our vision through because the one thing you can count out on when it comes to humans, is raging stupidity.  The digital media may have altered the game board a little bit, but in the end-we always scrub the bottom of humanity for this rock we call home.  And we will always will.  Some innocent people are going to die as a result, but we are going to watch millions of Maga minions die, if ever there were that many.   

Don't forget loyalty oaths. A part of our history and useful weapons to bring around recalcitrant citizens.

[YGIFS 19452]

No misogyny.  But I love it when a woman uses the word "recalcitrant."  

We need a separate thread to figure out how to get these dipshits to murder one another.  I have a bizarre imagination, and I know there's a way......but for the life of me, I can't see it.  But one of more imaginative can.  My imagination went by the wayside years ago, but there has got to be a way to make them think they're killing Antifa or some shit.  The blueprint is already there, I just don't know how to do the messaging.  

Edited February 6 by YGIFS

[dcbc 14492]

8 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

No misogyny.  But I love it when a woman uses the word "recalcitrant."  

We need a separate thread to figure out how to get these dipshits to murder one another.  I have a bizarre imagination, and I know there's a way......but for the life of me, I can't see it.  But one of more imaginative can.  My imagination went by the wayside years ago, but there has got to be a way to make them think they're killing Antifa or some shit.  The blueprint is already there, I just don't know how to do the messaging.  

When you think about pizza chain sex trafficking, you quickly realize that it's just a game of MAD LIBS.  

 

"The dirty libs have poisoned the atmosphere and breathing outside air makes you a homo sapien."  Watch them hold their collective breath.  

[YGIFS 19452]

Oh, so you mean like a literal game of "Mad Liberals" or "Mad Libs", if you will.  

Cause the version I keep coming back to is:

NOUN:  Ewoks

VERB:  Tripping 

ADVERB:  Insanely

ADJECTIVE:  Crazy 

[Js1 85439]

5 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Oh, so you mean like a literal game of "Mad Liberals" or "Mad Libs", if you will.  

Cause the version I keep coming back to is:

NOUN:  Ewoks

VERB:  Tripping 

ADVERB:  Insanely

ADJECTIVE:  Crazy 

You’re gonna attract that guy from Shaggy who loved Ewoks 

Edited February 6 by Js1

[YGIFS 19452]

Wait, whut?  Who was it?  Like a furbie or just like a Star Wars nerd or?  

[nbmishoid 955]

3 hours ago, Constant said:

I’ve been reading ‘The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich,’ and it’s interesting to see the similarities between Hitler and his cronies rise to power and the actions of Trump and his cronies in America. It all feels very familiar. That little bald bitch Stephen Miller must have Goebbels’ face on his bedsheets.

A fantastic book - the author was a journalist ther during theb30’s

Edited February 7 by nbmishoid
Something

[Hookah Horns 3083]

3 hours ago, Constant said:

I’ve been reading ‘The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich,’ and it’s interesting to see the similarities between Hitler and his cronies rise to power and the actions of Trump and his cronies in America. It all feels very familiar. That little bald bitch Stephen Miller must have Goebbels’ face on his bedsheets.

Thank Christ dotard and his henchmen aren't even 1% as cunning or as effective (at anything other than gifting). 

[Constant 6748]

20 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

A fantastic book - the author was a journalist ther during theb30’s

Yeah, I was caught off guard by some of the first person perspectives. Did not expect that and it adds a layer to the book nicely. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19208]

3 hours ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

But that doesn’t keep me from discussing the news aspect of this.

Take it to DT.

[MissingInAction 25116]

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. 

[Eskimohorn 5637]

I am really coming around to the idea that Trump needs to remain alive for the next 10 months.  Haley would probably beat Biden.  I doubt DeSantis or Vivek could, but Haley might be able to do it. But Biden will destroy Trump, especially now that Republicans refuse to work with him on closing the border. 

I’d take a Haley victory right now over any double digit % chance dotard regains presidency. I detest her politics but am more confident she’s not a Rapture candidate or the last President. Biden is not a strong incumbent and is vulnerable to say the least.

[LTbear 4171]

4 hours ago, 'stache said:

I like how nobody says anything about the clips all over the internet of Biden speaking clearly on important issues, but a few where his age/fatigue/stutter feature prominently "ehrmagerd I can't believe we have to vote for an senile guy." Listen to him more often, he knows his shit, and conveys it fine the vast majority of the time. He also has appointed smart competent people to do the hard work as any good leader would do, especially one that is older. If this was an open primary I'd probably lean towards a younger person, but the guy is the incumbent, he's done a good job by pretty much every metric, and he speaks clearly enough most of the time that I'm convinced he's fine mentally. But if there's any doubt whatsoever, he's not trump, who has was already a complete moron, he's now showing legit signs of dementia and total disconnect from reality. It's a pretty fucking easy choice.

[ohchaucer 1443]

Don't forget loyalty oaths. A part of our history and useful weapons to bring around recalcitrant citizens.

We need to create some authority to which fellow MAGAts can receive a reward for “turning in” false MAGAts - for RINO-like behavior or for supporting Haley or not weeping over the death of Toby Keith or not having enough bumper stickers or for loving their fellow man, etc etc.

Kinda like how the Salem witch trials reached a frenzy or like, you know, how in Texas you can make a citizen’s arrest of someone seeking healthcare that might involve an abortion or whatever the fuck that law is….

Root out and demonize any MAGAt who might dare to still be even slightly normal or decent and empower the meanest, least intelligent of the cult.

WALLA! Hilarity and MAGA infighting ensue!

[atomheartbevo 89735]

51 minutes ago, ohchaucer said:

We need to create some authority to which fellow MAGAts can receive a reward for “turning in” false MAGAts - for RINO-like behavior or for supporting Haley or not weeping over the death of Toby Keith or not having enough bumper stickers or for loving their fellow man, etc etc.

We need to create MAGA convoys that go all over the US for various reasons, and fill them with MAGA live-streaming their stupid thoughts, and we need to pit the convoys against one another.

[RomaVicta 29940]

19 hours ago, Foosters said:

I still think Antifa/Illegal Immigrant insurance was the way to go. Could've singlehandedly wiped out the Boomer's nest eggs.

For just $3.99 a month, you can rest easy knowing that if an antifa or illegal damages you or your property, you will be covered.

Hey! I'm a boomer and...

...you're right.

[RomaVicta 29940]

17 hours ago, Red Five said:

I know what you mean. I had a similar deal with my neighbor the other day. I was telling him that my back was a little sore from my workout the day before, and he told me about how he has terminal pancreatic cancer. "Man, these health issues amirite? Both sure do suck. What are you gonna do." 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

22 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Hey! I'm a boomer and...

...you're right.

Rep for using Charlie Cox in a gif. So dreamy.

[DDD Dad 14344]

14 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Wait, whut?  Who was it?  Like a furbie or just like a Star Wars nerd or?  

 

[GenXer 2886]

13 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

We need to create MAGA convoys that go all over the US for various reasons, and fill them with MAGA live-streaming their stupid thoughts, and we need to pit the convoys against one another.

Mao Zedong style

[Steamboat1874 4072]

3 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

 

When these guys showed up I was done with Star Wars.

It became a Muppet movie for kids.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33876]

10 minutes ago, Steamboat1874 said:

When these guys showed up I was done with Star Wars.

It became a Muppet movie for kids.

[DDD Dad 14344]

25 minutes ago, Steamboat1874 said:

When these guys showed up I was done with Star Wars.

It became a Muppet movie for kids.

 

14 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

[Francisco 2.0 32395]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/inside-donald-trumps-incredible-cash-crunch?ref=home?ref=home

 

Quote

Donald Trump is just days away from getting slammed with a court judgment that could be worth hundreds of millions of dollars as a punishment for his decades of bank fraud with the Trump Organization. And two little-known New York laws could leave Trump scrambling for cash: a requirement that he immediately front the money to appeal the decision, and a sky-high state interest rate.

 

Quote

During a deposition with the New York Attorney General in April 2023, Trump boasted that he had $400 million in cash, bragging about how it’s “a lot for a developer.” But even if that were true, it likely won’t be enough to simultaneously cover last month’s $83 million verdict at his rape defamation trial—which he needs to immediately set aside to appeal that case—and the $370 million demanded by the AG for his incessant lying to banks.

 

Quote

While the judge deciding the bank fraud case hasn’t come up with a final figure that Trump owes, every indication is that it will be into the hundreds of millions. A message from the judge on Tuesday actually suggested it could be even more than what the New York AG is seeking.

Trump’s sudden cash demands are exacerbated by a quirk in New York law. Not only would the judgment get automatically inflated by an unusually high interest rate of 9 percent, but Trump would need to give the court the enlarged total—plus an extra 10 to 20 percent—in order to appeal and have another day in court. And it would all be due by mid-March.

 

Spoiler

The self-proclaimed billionaire real estate tycoon is about to be caught in a trap of his own making, forced to front a massive amount of cash and possibly liquidate assets—while potentially unable to access the money, because the court order could limit his ability to tap his Monopoly board of properties.

Meanwhile, Trump also faces mounting difficulty in finding surety companies and banks to guide him through the appeal, because his credibility is the very focal point of the case in question. (Trump also has a long history of stiffing banks and creditors.)

“It’s not often that there are cases like this where the person’s financial ability to pay is really in question,” said N. Alex Hanley, an expert in how companies appeal enormous judgments.

“The subject of the case is whether the values of his properties are what he says they are,” Hanley added. “He may have some trouble with that.”

Court-imposed nine-figure penalties almost universally involve the nation’s leading corporations, not an individual facing four criminal indictments that also threaten to put him in prison. Even as Trump cruises to the GOP presidential nomination, the situation could send potential lenders rushing for the exits, said Hanley, who runs the appellate surety agency Jurisco in Tallahassee, Florida.

Ironically, Trump’s position as the leading 2024 Republican candidate actually makes matters worse for him, experts said, because the way he used his four years in the White House to block civil cases make him a radioactive borrower. Trump hid behind the presidential seal and employed the Department of Justice to delay E. Jean Carroll’s rape defamation case against him for years—something that proved instructive for any potential lender now.

“Sureties require an indemnification agreement, a contract for the bond. Now a concern would be: How do you perfect an indemnity of the person that could be the next sitting president? How do you take that person to court?” asked Neil Pedersen, who runs an eponymous appellate bond agency in Manhattan.

If Trump ultimately exhausts his court appeals and definitively loses the case, no lender wants to be on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars—and unable to knock on the borrower’s door while he’s in the Oval Office.

“These companies are pretty conservative by nature. They're not likely to get involved in something that they think will get dragged on for a long time—and potentially not get paid for it. This has never been done, so it's completely unprecedented,” Hanley said.

The miserable defense Trump’s lawyers put on at the recent three-month state trial all but guarantees he will be punished severely. Justice Arthur F. Engoron, who reviewed extensive evidence gathered by investigators, concluded before trial that Trump indeed committed bank fraud. Trump’s lead accounting expert failed to convince the judge otherwise, and recent allegations of perjury by a Trump Organization executive have only promised to worsen the situation.

Whatever the enormous judgment will be, the state-mandated 9 percent interest rate on the sum is likely to date back to the start of AG Letitia James’ investigation in 2018, which means Trump could be in the hole for nine-figures more. If the judgment against Trump is, for instance, $370 million, he would face an additional $33.3 million tacked on annually to the base amount of the original judgment. It’s simple interest, which means it only applies to the original judgment, but if the time period stretches back six years, Trump would automatically owe 54 percent more than whatever the judgment comes out to be. (In this hypothetical of $370 million with six years of interest, it’d be almost exactly $200 million more.)

If the judgment is that high, it would be financially devastating to Trump, even with buildings he claims are worth billions.

According to surety bond experts who operate in New York’s court system, that towering interest rate was set years ago during a booming economy and hasn’t come down. Although Gov. Kathy Hochul vastly reduced the money judgment interest rate on consumer debts for the first time in 40 years in 2021, experts said the nature of Trump’s bank fraud case means he wouldn’t be spared.

Then there’s the matter of Trump’s inevitable appeal. The $315 filing fee will be the least of his worries. According to New York state court rules, Trump will have only a month to front a massive appellate bond worth anywhere from 110 percent to 120 percent of the judgment. Experts who spoke to The Daily Beast said Trump has two options: pay it directly to the court system, or find a surety company that would provide the state a guarantee on his behalf.

For Trump, either situation is a nightmare.

If Trump wants to take the odd route and fly solo, Pedersen said, the former president would likely be forced to funnel his cash reserves—if he even has enough—into a single bank account and cut the New York court system a certified check. But then he’d have to pay extra fees charged by the court for handling the transaction.

“It doesn’t go smoothly when the government holds your cash. I just hear horror stories,” Pedersen said.

If Trump opts to take the more common route, he’ll have to find a willing insurance company that’s licensed to handle these kinds of legal transactions in New York—and rely on one of the few that’s able to handle this kind of gargantuan sum.

That firm wouldn’t hand over the cash. Instead, it would merely present the court with an official document that says it’s good for the money. Trump, on the other hand, would have to pay the surety company a premium of maybe 1 percent—a tiny share that under present circumstances might translate into a whopping $5 million.

However, the bigger problem comes when Trump has to prove that he’s trustworthy—in the midst of a trial that proved he’s anything but.

“Appeal bonds always have to be collateralized. He would have to put up liquid collateral in the form of cash, a letter of credit from a bank, or a pledge of non-retirement account publicly traded securities,” Pedersen said.

Then there’s the risk of associating with Trump, Hanley added.

“In a divisive case like this, lots of companies would decline to be involved in it. The death threats. The pitchforks. I’ve had that happen in many cases that aren’t nearly as high-profile,” Hanley said.

Hanley said insurance companies “on the whole” don’t accept real property as collateral, as they prefer cash or letters of credit. As such, Justice Engoron’s order might force Trump to actually scramble to sell a building or prized golf course.

But that opens another can of worms. The incoming judicial order is also expected to give the AG some of the injunctive relief she requested, potentially ripping apart the Trump Organization and seizing its assets. That could put Trump’s own buildings outside of his reach, further complicating matters.

“Is he even allowed to use his assets to secure the bond? Because the corporation could be defunct. What if the court says you have to sell everything? The court can denude him of his assets… and those assets are the very thing he'd need as collateral,” said Evans D. Prieston, a criminal defense lawyer in Long Island City who has worked closely with the bail bond industry.

In other words, Trump might not be able to rely on tainted goods to pay off the punishment for having tainted goods.

Trump also has the unfortunate timing of having his bank fraud trial shortly after a case Prieston recently lost before the state’s appellate court in Brooklyn, one in which the court asserted that judges have extensive powers to intervene between a defendant and their bond lender. That case dealt with criminal matters, but Prieston said Justice Engoron could decide this kind of authority extends to civil cases as well.

Who would help Trump then?

“Depends on his friends and how much money he has,” Prieston said. “Jared Kushner knows Saudi Arabia. Who knows what’s going to happen?”

 

Edited February 7 by Francisco 2.0

[Party_Taco 3742]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/inside-donald-trumps-incredible-cash-crunch?ref=home?ref=home
 

Donald Trump is just days away from getting slammed with a court judgment that could be worth hundreds of millions of dollars as a punishment for his decades of bank fraud with the Trump Organization. And two little-known New York laws could leave Trump scrambling for cash: a requirement that he immediately front the money to appeal the decision, and a sky-high state interest rate.

 

During a deposition with the New York Attorney General in April 2023, Trump boasted that he had $400 million in cash, bragging about how it’s “a lot for a developer.” But even if that were true, it likely won’t be enough to simultaneously cover last month’s $83 million verdict at his rape defamation trial—which he needs to immediately set aside to appeal that case—and the $370 million demanded by the AG for his incessant lying to banks.

 

While the judge deciding the bank fraud case hasn’t come up with a final figure that Trump owes, every indication is that it will be into the hundreds of millions. A message from the judge on Tuesday actually suggested it could be even more than what the New York AG is seeking.
Trump’s sudden cash demands are exacerbated by a quirk in New York law. Not only would the judgment get automatically inflated by an unusually high interest rate of 9 percent, but Trump would need to give the court the enlarged total—plus an extra 10 to 20 percent—in order to appeal and have another day in court. And it would all be due by mid-March.

 
Spoiler

The self-proclaimed billionaire real estate tycoon is about to be caught in a trap of his own making, forced to front a massive amount of cash and possibly liquidate assets—while potentially unable to access the money, because the court order could limit his ability to tap his Monopoly board of properties.
Meanwhile, Trump also faces mounting difficulty in finding surety companies and banks to guide him through the appeal, because his credibility is the very focal point of the case in question. (Trump also has a long history of stiffing banks and creditors.)
“It’s not often that there are cases like this where the person’s financial ability to pay is really in question,” said N. Alex Hanley, an expert in how companies appeal enormous judgments.
“The subject of the case is whether the values of his properties are what he says they are,” Hanley added. “He may have some trouble with that.”
Court-imposed nine-figure penalties almost universally involve the nation’s leading corporations, not an individual facing four criminal indictments that also threaten to put him in prison. Even as Trump cruises to the GOP presidential nomination, the situation could send potential lenders rushing for the exits, said Hanley, who runs the appellate surety agency Jurisco in Tallahassee, Florida.
Ironically, Trump’s position as the leading 2024 Republican candidate actually makes matters worse for him, experts said, because the way he used his four years in the White House to block civil cases make him a radioactive borrower. Trump hid behind the presidential seal and employed the Department of Justice to delay E. Jean Carroll’s rape defamation case against him for years—something that proved instructive for any potential lender now.
“Sureties require an indemnification agreement, a contract for the bond. Now a concern would be: How do you perfect an indemnity of the person that could be the next sitting president? How do you take that person to court?” asked Neil Pedersen, who runs an eponymous appellate bond agency in Manhattan.
If Trump ultimately exhausts his court appeals and definitively loses the case, no lender wants to be on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars—and unable to knock on the borrower’s door while he’s in the Oval Office.
“These companies are pretty conservative by nature. They're not likely to get involved in something that they think will get dragged on for a long time—and potentially not get paid for it. This has never been done, so it's completely unprecedented,” Hanley said.
The miserable defense Trump’s lawyers put on at the recent three-month state trial all but guarantees he will be punished severely. Justice Arthur F. Engoron, who reviewed extensive evidence gathered by investigators, concluded before trial that Trump indeed committed bank fraud. Trump’s lead accounting expert failed to convince the judge otherwise, and recent allegations of perjury by a Trump Organization executive have only promised to worsen the situation.
Whatever the enormous judgment will be, the state-mandated 9 percent interest rate on the sum is likely to date back to the start of AG Letitia James’ investigation in 2018, which means Trump could be in the hole for nine-figures more. If the judgment against Trump is, for instance, $370 million, he would face an additional $33.3 million tacked on annually to the base amount of the original judgment. It’s simple interest, which means it only applies to the original judgment, but if the time period stretches back six years, Trump would automatically owe 54 percent more than whatever the judgment comes out to be. (In this hypothetical of $370 million with six years of interest, it’d be almost exactly $200 million more.)
If the judgment is that high, it would be financially devastating to Trump, even with buildings he claims are worth billions.
According to surety bond experts who operate in New York’s court system, that towering interest rate was set years ago during a booming economy and hasn’t come down. Although Gov. Kathy Hochul vastly reduced the money judgment interest rate on consumer debts for the first time in 40 years in 2021, experts said the nature of Trump’s bank fraud case means he wouldn’t be spared.
Then there’s the matter of Trump’s inevitable appeal. The $315 filing fee will be the least of his worries. According to New York state court rules, Trump will have only a month to front a massive appellate bond worth anywhere from 110 percent to 120 percent of the judgment. Experts who spoke to The Daily Beast said Trump has two options: pay it directly to the court system, or find a surety company that would provide the state a guarantee on his behalf.
For Trump, either situation is a nightmare.
If Trump wants to take the odd route and fly solo, Pedersen said, the former president would likely be forced to funnel his cash reserves—if he even has enough—into a single bank account and cut the New York court system a certified check. But then he’d have to pay extra fees charged by the court for handling the transaction.
“It doesn’t go smoothly when the government holds your cash. I just hear horror stories,” Pedersen said.
If Trump opts to take the more common route, he’ll have to find a willing insurance company that’s licensed to handle these kinds of legal transactions in New York—and rely on one of the few that’s able to handle this kind of gargantuan sum.
That firm wouldn’t hand over the cash. Instead, it would merely present the court with an official document that says it’s good for the money. Trump, on the other hand, would have to pay the surety company a premium of maybe 1 percent—a tiny share that under present circumstances might translate into a whopping $5 million.
However, the bigger problem comes when Trump has to prove that he’s trustworthy—in the midst of a trial that proved he’s anything but.
“Appeal bonds always have to be collateralized. He would have to put up liquid collateral in the form of cash, a letter of credit from a bank, or a pledge of non-retirement account publicly traded securities,” Pedersen said.
Then there’s the risk of associating with Trump, Hanley added.
“In a divisive case like this, lots of companies would decline to be involved in it. The death threats. The pitchforks. I’ve had that happen in many cases that aren’t nearly as high-profile,” Hanley said.
Hanley said insurance companies “on the whole” don’t accept real property as collateral, as they prefer cash or letters of credit. As such, Justice Engoron’s order might force Trump to actually scramble to sell a building or prized golf course.
But that opens another can of worms. The incoming judicial order is also expected to give the AG some of the injunctive relief she requested, potentially ripping apart the Trump Organization and seizing its assets. That could put Trump’s own buildings outside of his reach, further complicating matters.
“Is he even allowed to use his assets to secure the bond? Because the corporation could be defunct. What if the court says you have to sell everything? The court can denude him of his assets… and those assets are the very thing he'd need as collateral,” said Evans D. Prieston, a criminal defense lawyer in Long Island City who has worked closely with the bail bond industry.
In other words, Trump might not be able to rely on tainted goods to pay off the punishment for having tainted goods.
Trump also has the unfortunate timing of having his bank fraud trial shortly after a case Prieston recently lost before the state’s appellate court in Brooklyn, one in which the court asserted that judges have extensive powers to intervene between a defendant and their bond lender. That case dealt with criminal matters, but Prieston said Justice Engoron could decide this kind of authority extends to civil cases as well.
Who would help Trump then?
“Depends on his friends and how much money he has,” Prieston said. “Jared Kushner knows Saudi Arabia. Who knows what’s going to happen?”

 

Wild, wild stuff there…

If the saudis come to his rescue that alone should prevent him from taking back the highest office in the land, to say nothing of the countless other reasons…

[Pato del Muerto 52530]

Yeah I hope that being a candidate, and a leading candidate at that, adds a layer of scrutiny to his financials that would preclude foreign help. But I’ll wait to hear how the saudis just happened to put a half billion into his pac, which just happened to be able to post the money on his behalf. 

[bolverk 29694]

wrong thread

Edited February 7 by bolverk

[DigglerontheHoof 21204]

I'll believe it when I see it. 

[Gatorubet 30254]

On 2/6/2024 at 1:22 PM, Red Five said:

I know what you mean. I had a similar deal with my neighbor the other day. I was telling him that my back was a little sore from my workout the day before, and he told me about how he has terminal pancreatic cancer. "Man, these health issues amirite? Both sure do suck. What are you gonna do." 

[David Dennison 18935]

18 hours ago, Eskimohorn said:

I’d take a Haley victory right now over any double digit % chance dotard regains presidency. I detest her politics but am more confident she’s not a Rapture candidate or the last President. Biden is not a strong incumbent and is vulnerable to say the least.

I wouldn't.

Beat him, and if you lose, deal with it.

[Eskimohorn 5637]

When these guys showed up I was done with Star Wars.
It became a Muppet movie for kids.

Remember me, you do not



Yeah, I can see how that would be annoying.

In 1983, there werent any mofos complaining about ewoks in ROTJ in a movie trilogy that featured tons of little people in outfits.

After the internet was invented, people heard about the change from Wookies to Ewoks, reflected on the prequels, and started that shit.

[Genco 3041]

[4th&Five 41565]

Edited February 8 by 4th&Five

[Surly Bevo 25075]

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I will give the Dotard this. He has mastered saying stupid shit at such a dizzying pace that you can’t focus on the one stupid thing before there are 10 more stupid things cascading down on your head.

I’m just old enough to remember all the flak Dan Quayle got for his spelling of potato. Turns out if old Dan has just entered a Spelling Bee every day nobody would have noticed.

[TexasHooch 5122]

4 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

I’m just old enough to remember all the flak Dan Quayle got for his spelling of potato. Turns out if old Dan has just entered a Spelling Bee every day nobody would have noticed.

 

 

And as far as candidates go, 

 

This guy never recovered from saying Byaaaaaaah! to encourage his supporters after a tough loss in Iowa.

 

And this guy never recovered from getting in a tank to support the military build up of conventional weapons.

 

We are indeed in very, very different times.

[RomaVicta 29940]

11 minutes ago, TexasHooch said:

And as far as candidates go, 

 

This guy never recovered from saying Byaaaaaaah! to encourage his supporters after a tough loss in Iowa.

 

And this guy never recovered from getting in a tank to support the military build up of conventional weapons.

 

We are indeed in very, very different times.

I campaigned for Dukakis and had my usual luck. A comedian at the time remarked on the photo above:

 

People getting down on Dukakis about how dumb he looked on that tank. That nose and those big eyebrows? He didn't look dumb; he looked like the enemy!

 

I'm sure I don't remember it exactly. Cracked me up back in the day. Now, Willy Horton? Nothing funny about that Lee Atwater shit.

[tx 3 putt 77135]

 

[HenryJames 66133]

Looking good, imo.