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Francisco 2.0

By Francisco 2.0
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Captainant

Captainant 27654

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Chopper said:

Dotard Donnie only released the search warrant because he was convinced that a judge would order it unsealed soon enough, either in response to DOJ's request or the NYT's FOIA.

The only highly significant item it will likely confirm is that the search was conducted in response to a belief that he was in violation of the Espionage Act, 18 U.S.C., Chapter 36, specifically Section 793 - Gathering, Transmitting, or Losing Defense Information. We're not going to learn the good stuff - why did probable cause exist? what were the exigent circumstances? what was in the documents and why did they believe he kept them, etc. The information vacuum will continue and therefore it will continue to be filled with gqp lies.

There's already been some interesting stuff, like the DOJ motion to release the warrant was undersigned by the chief of US counterintelligence and export control in addition to the AG.

I hope we actually get the warrant released today and not more fuck fuck run out the clock games from team trump

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Beau Vine
Beau Vine

To be fair, President Trump’s four years in office weren’t so bad, except when when he incited an insurrection against the government, mismanaged a pandemic that killed nearly half a million Americans

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Bama Chick

Y’all about to get a great visual representation of Cullman, Alabama. Only good things to come out of Cullman are the Britt brothers (Roll Tide!) and orange rolls from All Steak restaurant. That pla

ChiTownDoc
ChiTownDoc

You seem really pissed off for a nontrumper.  Just laugh at the trumpers, bro.  They’re really gullible dumbfucks who worship this orange blob…you know, people completely unlike yourself.  

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chainsaw

chainsaw 9865

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Captainant said:

There's already been some interesting stuff, like the DOJ motion to release the warrant was undersigned by the chief of US counterintelligence and export control in addition to the AG.

I hope we actually get the warrant released today and not more fuck fuck run out the clock games from team trump

Not just that but the affidavit. I'm excited because historically all the juiciest news hits on Fridays

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13510

Posted
Posted

I saw one commentator say that Trump had no reason to remove secret documents when he had the information in his head.

Come on dude. Trump doesn't take the time to read or even have the capacity to understand what he's reading about nuclear weapons and the overall program. No foreign power would give much to hear Trump's memory of a document. He needs documents prepared by someone in the govt.

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TexArcher

TexArcher 37774

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

It wasn't a fucking raid. That is infuriating.

So, the GQP is already doubling down.

 

 

 

I mean, you might be able to find it on your cell phone NOW, especially if your version of Google works in Arabic or Russian......

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45673

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Pig Bellmont said:

A president cannot steal top secret nuclear secrets when he leaves office. No fucking idiot can legitimately defend that.  I refuse to believe 70million people will line up and vote for that

That’s like a MAGA mad libs. 

They just will refuse to believe it.  The only reality that matters to them is the one they make up in their heads.  

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15531

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There is simply no reason for it to retain those materials unless to sell it.

He's not intellectually curious.  Would I like to read up CONPLAN 8044-2018?  Sure.  But Donald Trump couldn't read his PDB; there's no chance he's taking thousands and thousands of pages to read simply because he finds them interesting.

Nor did he take the documents to just put on the mantle.  I could see him taking gifts that various foreign leaders had given him and putting them around Mar a Lago.  But this isn't that.  You don't take visitors down and show them the schematics for the W87-1.  Nobody would understand it, and anyway, what's the fucking point?  Everyone knows you were president and as such had access to the holiest of holies.  It doesn't impress anyone more to see that you still have it.

No--the only reason for him to retain these documents is for him to sell them.  We probably can't prove that he was trying to or that he was going to.  But I have no doubt that that was his intent.

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chainsaw

chainsaw 9865

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

There is simply no reason for it to retain those materials unless to sell it.

He's not intellectually curious.  Would I like to read up CONPLAN 8044-2018?  Sure.  But Donald Trump couldn't read his PDB; there's no chance he's taking thousands and thousands of pages to read simply because he finds them interesting.

Nor did he take the documents to just put on the mantle.  I could see him taking gifts that various foreign leaders had given him and putting them around Mar a Lago.  But this isn't that.  You don't take visitors down and show them the schematics for the W87-1.  Nobody would understand it, and anyway, what's the fucking point?  Everyone knows you were president and as such had access to the holiest of holies.  It doesn't impress anyone more to see that you still have it.

No--the only reason for him to retain these documents is for him to sell them.  We probably can't prove that he was trying to or that he was going to.  But I have no doubt that that was his intent.

It's like porn. If you have it, you jacked off to it.

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956 Worldwide

956 Worldwide 34705

Posted
Posted

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-allies-say-declassified-mar-lago-documents-experts-say-unclear-w-rcna42311

Quote

Kash Patel, a Pentagon chief of staff during the Trump administration, told Breitbart News in May that the documents previously recovered from Mar-a-Lago had been declassified by Trump, but their markings were not updated. “Trump declassified whole sets of materials in anticipation of leaving government that he thought the American public should have the right to read themselves,” Patel said then.

“It’s information that Trump felt spoke to matters regarding everything from Russiagate to the Ukraine impeachment fiasco to major national security matters of great public importance — anything the president felt the American people had a right to know is in there and more,” Patel said then, adding that he was with Trump when the then-president said, “We are declassifying this information.”

“It’s important that the American people have a right to know more, so he declassified them and kept them in a box in his closet.”

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105095

Posted
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1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-allies-say-declassified-mar-lago-documents-experts-say-unclear-w-rcna42311

“It’s important that the American people have a right to know more, so he declassified them and kept them in a box in his closet.”

There are some things I do casually, almost mindlessly, without even thinking.  Taking a sip of my coffee.  Clicking to open an email.  Putting on my glasses to read a document.

That these people LIE that casually and mindlessly is still amazing to me, after all of this time.  I should be used to it, but I just can't bring myself to that point.

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chainsaw

chainsaw 9865

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

NowThis?

Maybe it's more like those bullshit drug laws. How after a certain amount it's assumed (presumed, whatever) that you had "intent to distribute" and are therefore a druglord that needs to go to supermax. There's no "innocent" explanation for having nuclear anything. Classified or not, don't make a shit.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

Posted
Posted

Like many criminals, mobsters,  and shady salespeople, the former president is really really good at framing the narrative and renaming the topic. I know he is thought of as an idiot, but this is like second nature to him. And it works quite well for him. Not sure if this was all down to the duo of Roy Cohn and Fred Trump and their instruction, but once Trump got the 'people love me and I love them' folks under his spell, he just had to focus on the tweener folks. The true believers cannot and will not be swayed, but watching from the Ledge, this is going to be tight right up until November.

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Just for the sake of illuminating some of the issues relating to presidential power.

Only the Senate has a role in treaties, and it's limited to advise and consent, and ratification by 2/3.  The House has no constitutional role.  That has been interpreted, structurally, to very much limit the power of Congress (both houses) on foreign policy, other than the House's power of the purse, to legislate expenditures.

And the CinC role and Congress' sole ability to declare war have been at odds from jump, but especially so in the last 75 years with "police actions" and unpopular wars.

So, a congressional attempt to limit CinC powers, which is where classification falls, may fail.

On the other hand, by creating an executive agency and signing off on the legislation Congress passes to govern it, the President can be said to have consented to or waived infringements on his power.

Good point on the Senate, not the full Congress, having ratification powers on treaties.  And the ability of the President to unilaterally withdraw from treaties, particularly any non-proliferation treaties, could be key to his ability to share certain nuke information and what is required to declassify nuke info.  

As far as the "police actions," I see those as operating in the absence of Congressional action, not overriding it. If Congress can't explicitly state "No war with Oceania" then it's pretty obvious we have lost the thread on whatever the original intent was.  

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956 Worldwide

956 Worldwide 34705

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This “he decided to declassify them so they are” is some trippy shit. It’s Schrodinger’s declassification. He thought about it when he was president but didn’t tell anyone he did so until he was no longer president so I guess they were classified and declassified at the same time, until the FBI opened the box. 

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29349

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

There is simply no reason for it to retain those materials unless to sell it.

He's not intellectually curious.  Would I like to read up CONPLAN 8044-2018?  Sure.  But Donald Trump couldn't read his PDB; there's no chance he's taking thousands and thousands of pages to read simply because he finds them interesting.

Nor did he take the documents to just put on the mantle.  I could see him taking gifts that various foreign leaders had given him and putting them around Mar a Lago.  But this isn't that.  You don't take visitors down and show them the schematics for the W87-1.  Nobody would understand it, and anyway, what's the fucking point?  Everyone knows you were president and as such had access to the holiest of holies.  It doesn't impress anyone more to see that you still have it.

No--the only reason for him to retain these documents is for him to sell them.  We probably can't prove that he was trying to or that he was going to.  But I have no doubt that that was his intent.

We could prove he was trying to if we intercepted communications between him and Saudi officials about doing so. 

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tx 3 putt

tx 3 putt 76905

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Maybe this was posted upstream, but FYI:

 

 
 
 

 

Also, signal intelligence may have been at the beach club for all the cool kids to read/take selfies with/make copies of

 

 

 



knowing what information the US has and HOW it was obtained is what foreign agents want to know. It’s classified because of how it was gathered more so than because of the information, imo 

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royiv

royiv 9286

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

People are coming up with crazy shit in defense and we still don’t know what information the government recovered from the search. 

This. It's telling that the Trumpers aren't saying that there was nothing to be found. They're making excuses for what was found. If the contents of the boxes was love letters from Kim Jong Un, they would be saying it's nothing but correspondence. Instead they're spinning stories about what was found.

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Goredho

Goredho 17399

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

People are coming up with crazy shit in defense and we still don’t know what information the government recovered from the search. 

Exactly.  At this point, all we know is  the WaPo ran a story with the word "nuclear" in it, and now that's all Trump wants to talk about.  He wants to paint it as a hoax, link it to the "conspiracy" against him and otherwise put in the forefront of everyone's minds.

If the FBI does not produce anything "nuclear" found at Mar-A-Lago, there are going to be roughly 70 million voters who are gonna be more convinced than ever that this man is being wrongfully persecuted by the giant liberal octopus that has its tentacles everywhere. 

I don't know how we collectively have yet to learn that Trump should be denied control of the narrative.

Edited by Goredho
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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18218

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

This “he decided to declassify them so they are” is some trippy shit. It’s Schrodinger’s declassification. He thought about it when he was president but didn’t tell anyone he did so until he was no longer president so I guess they were classified and declassified at the same time, until the FBI opened the box. 

If that’s the case, then couldn’t Obama have double super secret declassified Hillary’s email server in his mind? 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Trump should be denied control of the narrative.

He is banned from Twitter thank god..but the narrative and media manipulation still persists. 
 

The problem we have here is the same one we had during the Russia investigation.  The DOJ/FBI has no obligation or responsibility to create a media counter-narrative and the democrats can’t create a credible counter-narrative without transparency and cooperation from a non-partisan DOJ/FBI.

Trump spent much of his time in office subverting the credibility of both the DOJ and FBI. 

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TexArcher

TexArcher 37774

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

People are coming up with crazy shit in defense and we still don’t know what information the government recovered from the search. 

The part that blows my mind is that they were saying the evidence was planted before we even knew what evidence was being looked for.

That points very clearly to the fact that there is absolutely nothing the man can do that his horde will condemn.  Nothing.  They'll either support him or go into denial mode if he's accused of anything they don't support.  It's either, "We agree with what he did!" or "He didn't actually do that -- y'all are framing him!" 

And he can extend that blind faith of the masses to any Republican he blesses.  And when they're done gerrymandering and setting up the infrastructure to win/steal 2024, with the Supreme Court conservative for a generation at least, they will have succeeded in consolidating power for a very long time.  And what they will do with it won't be pretty.  

I've always had a cynical streak, but I've never felt this level of hopelessness before.  It's over.  Fox News has won and this country will become exactly what they want it to be.

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tx 3 putt

tx 3 putt 76905

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I saw one commentator say that Trump had no reason to remove secret documents when he had the information in his head.

Come on dude. Trump doesn't take the time to read or even have the capacity to understand what he's reading about nuclear weapons and the overall program. No foreign power would give much to hear Trump's memory of a document. He needs documents prepared by someone in the govt.


this, this and this

that dumb ass has no idea what was in those boxes. Who’s the real threat here  ?

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28776

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:



knowing what information the US has and HOW it was obtained is what foreign agents want to know. It’s classified because of how it was gathered more so than because of the information, imo 

Are you assuming it’s classified info about someone else’s nuclear program rather than our own?

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tx 3 putt

tx 3 putt 76905

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Gengs1 said:

No amount of wrongdoing will convince the Rs to drop him, the 30-40% of population will vote for him if he raped their kids in front of them 


the R’s already want to drop him, except for the extreme 5%. It’s just easier for them if he drops himself, which he’ll never do

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26444

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

They’re vacillating between “FBI planted documents” to “he declassified them” with amazing dexterity 

You seem to think they need to choose one. That’s not the point. It’s a schroedinger’s cat of denial. The charge can be true or not, whichever you prefer. It’s not true, or if it is, that’s fine too.

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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3362

Posted
Posted
48 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

People are coming up with crazy shit in defense and we still don’t know what information the government recovered from the search. 

We will likely never know, if it’s classified they can’t confirm or deny anything about it publicly. That vacuum favors a liar unfortunately.  Congress / committees should be a trusted check on that information, but Rs have shown they will twist or outright lie to protect the party and Trump, so we can’t expect any validation there either. As someone upthread said, Rs are in too deep at this point with Trump. Any break now would expose all the other shit they were complicit with, so that’s not an option. 

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