A story about a pathetic man's downfall [34 Felony Convictions]

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trump-went-judge-shopping-and-it-paid-off-in-mar-a-lago-case

Trump Went Judge Shopping and It Paid Off in Mar-a-Lago Case

Quote

 

When former President Donald Trump summoned up years of bubbling resentment and sued Hillary Clinton and everyone else involved in Russiagate earlier this year, he naturally filed his lawsuit in South Florida—home to his oceanside estate.

And yet, when his attorneys formally filed the paperwork, they selected a tiny courthouse in the sprawling federal court district’s furthest northeast corner—a satellite location that’s 70 miles from Mar-a-Lago. They ignored the West Palm Beach federal courthouse that’s a 12-minute drive away.

Trump’s legal team, it seemed, was specifically seeking out a particular federal judge: one he appointed as president.

The tactic failed, and Trump instead got a Clinton-era judge whom he promptly tried to disqualify for alleged bias. U.S. District Judge Donald M. Middlebrooks called him out in a snarky footnote.

“I note that Plaintiff filed this lawsuit in the Fort Pierce division of this District, where only one federal judge sits: Judge Aileen Cannon, who Plaintiff appointed in 2020. Despite the odds, this case landed with me instead. And when Plaintiff is a litigant before a judge that he himself appointed, he does not tend to advance these same sorts of bias concerns,” Middlebrooks wrote in April.

Months later, Trump is once again suing in the Southern District of Florida, this time seeking to hamper the FBI investigation into the way he kept hundreds of classified records at Mar-a-Lago. Except this time, he got Cannon.

The strategy is already paying off.

On Monday afternoon, Cannon single-handedly hit the brakes on the most politically sensitive and consequential FBI investigation ever undertaken. Convinced by Team Trump’s legal arguments that the routine Justice Department methods for carefully handling seized documents aren’t good enough when investigating this particular former president, she ordered that a “special master” be tasked with playing referee to dictate what happens with classified documents that are evidence of a crime.

“The investigation and treatment of a former president is of unique interest to the general public, and the country is served best by an orderly process that promotes the interest and perception of fairness,” she wrote in her order.

As they did last month at Mar-a-Lago, the feds typically rely on a so-called “filter team” to separate constitutionally protected communications between a suspect and their lawyer from evidence that goes to the actual investigators working on the criminal case. But Cannon ordered the appointment of a “special master”—from a list of candidates who are amenable to both the DOJ and Trump—to further oversee the handling of those documents. The fact that Trump may have a say is a notable victory rarely granted to someone accused of crimes as serious as violations of the Espionage Act.

Cannon held back on deciding whether the FBI should return Trump’s personal items—like accounting documents, medical records, and tax-related correspondence—even though the DOJ has indicated that their placement next to some of the nation’s most highly classified secrets officially makes them evidence of Trump’s criminal recklessness that could be shown at a future trial.

Her ruling was widely criticized by former prosecutors and legal scholars on Monday over the way it awkwardly lent credence to the idea that an ex-president can somehow assert “executive privilege” over government documents, even if federal law enforcement agencies operating with the tacit approval of a current president are acting in their capacity as the current executive branch.

“This special master opinion is so bad it’s hard to know where to begin… her analysis of standing is terrible. Trump wouldn’t own these docs anyway, so why does he get a Master over them?” tweeted Neal Katyal, a national security law professor who was previously the nation’s top lawyer as the federal government’s solicitor general.

Katyal also criticized the way Cannon didn’t do what was largely considered the right move: sending Trump’s lawsuit back to U.S. Magistrate Judge Bruce E. Reinhart, who approved the search warrant of Mar-a-Lago and already oversaw key elements of this matter.

“She let Trump forum shop for a judge, instead of letting the magistrate judge evaluate these claims. The appearances here are tragic,” Katyal wrote.

Cannon’s order was chock-full of innuendo, including odd swipes at the Biden administration and jabs at investigative journalists for their role in uncovering what exactly Trump did with these classified records at Mar-a-Lago.

“The Court takes into account the undeniably unprecedented nature of the search of a former President’s residence,” she wrote, citing a potential lack of “customary cooperation between former and incumbent administrations regarding the ownership and exchange of documents” and stressing “the interest in ensuring the integrity of an orderly process amidst swirling allegations of bias and media leaks.”

She went even further, noting the importance of having an independent referee oversee the handling of seized materials to ensure that Trump wouldn’t suffer “irreparable injury” from “exposure to either the Investigative Team or the media.”

Her comments notably come at a time when investigative journalists have frequently led the charge on documenting evidence of Trump administration corruption.

Cannon telegraphed much of her decision-making process during the case’s very first public hearing on Thursday, when she entertained the idea of blocking FBI special agents from reviewing the documents they’ve already had for nearly a month—while still allowing the Office of the Director of National Intelligence to continue using them to assess the potential damage of having so many national security secrets housed in desk drawers and boxes at a ritzy beach club.

“So would your position change,” Cannon asked a reluctant federal prosecutor on Thursday, “if the special master were permitted to proceed without affecting the ODNI's ongoing review for intelligence purposes but pausing temporarily any use of the documents in criminal investigation?”

According to a transcript, the Justice Department’s top counterintelligence prosecutor, Jay I. Bratt, later summed up why it’s bonkers to have a former president assert executive privilege against a current president to slow down the FBI—and put some of the nation’s most closely guarded secrets right back into the hands of a former president who no longer has no authority to have them.

“We have no idea where they would be stored; and again, this would be giving access to people things that they do not have the right to have access,” Bratt said, criticizing what he called “a fanciful view that somehow they would… prohibit the Executive Branch from reviewing the Executive Branch materials for a core Executive Branch function.”

Her comments bewildered legal scholars and raised alarms at the time.

“Truly nonsensical what Judge Cannon may do here. Executive privilege does not work this way,” tweeted New York University law school professor Ryan Goodman, who runs the blog Just Security.

“The Court takes into account the undeniably unprecedented nature of the search of a former President’s residence,” she wrote, citing a potential lack of “customary cooperation between former and incumbent administrations regarding the ownership and exchange of documents” and stressing “the interest in ensuring the integrity of an orderly process amidst swirling allegations of bias and media leaks.”

She went even further, noting the importance of having an independent referee oversee the handling of seized materials to ensure that Trump wouldn’t suffer “irreparable injury” from “exposure to either the Investigative Team or the media.”

Her comments notably come at a time when investigative journalists have frequently led the charge on documenting evidence of Trump administration corruption.

Cannon telegraphed much of her decision-making process during the case’s very first public hearing on Thursday, when she entertained the idea of blocking FBI special agents from reviewing the documents they’ve already had for nearly a month—while still allowing the Office of the Director of National Intelligence to continue using them to assess the potential damage of having so many national security secrets housed in desk drawers and boxes at a ritzy beach club.

“So would your position change,” Cannon asked a reluctant federal prosecutor on Thursday, “if the special master were permitted to proceed without affecting the ODNI's ongoing review for intelligence purposes but pausing temporarily any use of the documents in criminal investigation?”

According to a transcript, the Justice Department’s top counterintelligence prosecutor, Jay I. Bratt, later summed up why it’s bonkers to have a former president assert executive privilege against a current president to slow down the FBI—and put some of the nation’s most closely guarded secrets right back into the hands of a former president who no longer has no authority to have them.

“We have no idea where they would be stored; and again, this would be giving access to people things that they do not have the right to have access,” Bratt said, criticizing what he called “a fanciful view that somehow they would… prohibit the Executive Branch from reviewing the Executive Branch materials for a core Executive Branch function.”

Her comments bewildered legal scholars and raised alarms at the time.

“Truly nonsensical what Judge Cannon may do here. Executive privilege does not work this way,” tweeted New York University law school professor Ryan Goodman, who runs the blog Just Security.

Democrats in the Senate mostly either opposed her nomination or withheld voting. Cannon asserted to Senator Diane Feinstein (D-CA) in writing that she did not have any discussions about loyalty to President Trump. But Cannon would not even address Trump’s hateful rhetoric and damning comments about the judiciary. She dodged the topic when Senator Cory Booker (D-NJ) brought up how then-candidate Trump in 2016 bashed the federal judge presiding over the civil fraud case against the scammy Trump University with the claim that U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel had “an absolute conflict” because “of Mexican heritage.”

“Do you agree with President Trump’s view that a judge’s race or ethnicity can be a basis for recusal or disqualification?” Booker asked in writing.

“As a judicial nominee, it would not be appropriate for me to comment on the political statements of elected officials, including President Trump,” Cannon responded.

She was confirmed by the Senate and started on the bench a week after Trump lost his re-election bid in November 2020. Fast-forward two years, and Cannon’s first major case involves the very president who appointed her.

Cannon has shown her willingness to turn legal precedent that would normally be expected to harm Trump into a tool that will help him. During the Thursday hearing that led to this recent order, DOJ national security lawyer Julie Edelstein cited a post-Watergate scandal Supreme Court decision that cemented the idea that a former president’s official papers belong to the American people. That case, referred to as Nixon v. GSA, says that executive privilege shouldn’t be cited to keep them private simply because it’s convenient for the person who left office.

In her decision Monday, Cannon managed to cite the lone independent “statement” in a recent Supreme Court opinion from Justice Brett Kavanaugh, who wrote that a former president like Trump does retain some executive privilege. She repeated what he wrote then, that “a former President must be able to successfully invoke the Presidential communications privilege for communications that occurred during his Presidency, even if the current President does not support the privilege claim.”

The only opposition vote favoring Trump in that Supreme Court decision in January came from Justice Clarence Thomas, who remained silent. But he might have something to say on the matter soon enough. If the DOJ appeals this ruling, it could quickly make its way up to the appellate courts, possibly in the form of an emergency request. If it does, legal scholars have noted, the case could end up with the Supreme Court judge assigned to hear extremely time-sensitive matters out of Eleventh Circuit’s three southern states: Thomas.

 

 

[Pig Bellmont 8678]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Actually, I can.  Extract Trump from the equation and I think this is a right thing to do, maybe THE right thing to do.

Without this, the defendant is almost completely at the mercy of DOJ/FBI's complete good faith in ex parte evaluating the privilege and other aspects of it.  And, although I am rooting for them in this case, I don't trust them that far.  They are, after all, cops, and they might fuck it up to our detriment.

You’ve got this wrong. There’s no precedent for a special master to review claims of executive privilege - the attorney client docs can be handled by the standing taint team.  The privilege is Biden’s to assert. The privilege should not bar documents from a former executive from the successor executive branch. Trump and his surrogates have lost every attempt (I remember reading about) to assert executive privilege in other courts. 
 

It’s a special process to protect attorney client privilege. Remember we’re talking about top classified documents that affect our national security. 
 

Oh and preventing the DOJ from accessing the materials or continuing in the criminal investigation is relief Trump didn’t even ask for. It’s insane - and impossible to perform if ODNI is supposed to continue its impact analysis. 
 

It was a bad ruling that only the end result in mind. The legal part was abused because of who was asking. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33815]

18 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

Scotland seems like the perfect place to stagger around with a few broken bones.

That's defilement of a corpse and those relics belong in a museum!

[Dahobbs 17417]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

I'm still lost on how a federal court in Florida has jurisdiction. If there truly is a novel question about executive privilege shouldn't it be decided by the DC District Court? I would think the government's main argument would be for a change in venue.

See below

52 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Because the documents in question were taken using a warrant obtained in Florida?

While I don't know criminal procedure, this is akin to serving a federal civil subpoena in another jurisdiction. Under FRCP 45(a)(2), the issue court for the subpoena is the court where the action is pending. But, if someone wants to challenge or enforce the subpoena, the court that gets to decide that is the court where compliance is required (i.e., where the documents are or where the testimony is to take place), e.g., FRCP(d)(1), (2)(B)(i), and (3)(a) ("the court for the district where compliance is required..")

[High Plains Drifter 10969]

 

I predict it will take this "special" master at least a couple of years to complete whatever it is they are supposed to do.

 

There's an old saying, I believe it goes something like "Justice delayed is justice denied."

 

 

 

[TwiceHorn 31169]

22 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

You’ve got this wrong. There’s no precedent for a special master to review claims of executive privilege - the attorney client docs can be handled by the standing taint team.  The privilege is Biden’s to assert. The privilege should not bar documents from a former executive from the successor executive branch. Trump and his surrogates have lost every attempt (I remember reading about) to assert executive privilege in other courts. 
 

It’s a special process to protect attorney client privilege. Remember we’re talking about top classified documents that affect our national security. 
 

Oh and preventing the DOJ from accessing the materials or continuing in the criminal investigation is relief Trump didn’t even ask for. It’s insane - and impossible to perform if ODNI is supposed to continue its impact analysis. 
 

It was a bad ruling that only the end result in mind. The legal part was abused because of who was asking. 

What end result is there here?  Other than a couple of months delay, I don't think this changes the end result one little bit.

Here's what I expect to happen.  The Special Master will find something like this.

• There are W documents subject to a plausible claim of executive privilege.
• There are X documents, including all the classified material, not subject to a plausible claim of executive privilege.
• There are Y documents that are attorney-client privileged.
• There are Z items and documents that are personal.

Categories Y and Z will be returned to Trump.  Category X will be handed over to the FBI.

Category W will be subject to Biden's assertion or waiver of executive privilege, which will result in them being handed over to the FBI.

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Captainant 27276]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Actually, I can.  Extract Trump from the equation and I think this is a right thing to do, maybe THE right thing to do.

Without this, the defendant is almost completely at the mercy of DOJ/FBI's complete good faith in ex parte evaluating the privilege and other aspects of it.  And, although I am rooting for them in this case, I don't trust them that far.  They are, after all, cops, and they might fuck it up to our detriment.

Dude. This is about executive privilege and the inappropriate application of it. It's not exactly something that's ripe for abuse by the FBI against your every day citizen. This isn't about cops and unreasonable search and seizure, it's about a former president stealing national defense information and incredibly sensitive intelligence.

There's shit missing. There's HCS's getting killed left and right in the field. You're hand wringing as if this is any other case and a completely average person. 

It's not. It's the man who led a fascist insurrection attempt to overthrow our democratic process. We should be taking this seriously, not aw-shucks-ing. Idk why you care so much about this sort of shit. You didn't think Alex Jones got a fair shake either, and it's a really wild pattern to see from an otherwise reasonable poster. 

[TwiceHorn 31169]

14 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You didn't think Alex Jones got a fair shake either, and it's a really wild pattern to see from an otherwise reasonable poster. 

What the fuck?

That's bullshit of the purest ray serene.

I quibbled with Bankstron's handling of the privilege waiver, that's IT.  

I never said jack shit about Alex Jones not getting a fair shake.  As far as I'm concerned, he didn't get fucked hard enough.  The privilege waiver deal was an insignificant sideshow in the whole deal.

Edited September 6, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[wildcat09 29183]

I think Twice just has a thing for women who look like Kimberly Guilfoyle. 

[TwiceHorn 31169]

8 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I think Twice just has a thing for women who look like Kimberly Guilfoyle. 

At one time, a long time ago, I thought she was kind of hot.

I was horribly mistaken.

But yeah, brunette, preferably at least a few inches taller, wheelhouse.  Her specifically?  Ditch pig. 🤮

Edited September 6, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[AnTiM 1656]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

At one time, a long time ago, I thought she was kind of hot.

I was horribly mistaken.

Judging by her recent pictures, she appears to have been "rode hard and put up wet".

['stache 21740]

21 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

See below

While I don't know criminal procedure, this is akin to serving a federal civil subpoena in another jurisdiction. Under FRCP 45(a)(2), the issue court for the subpoena is the court where the action is pending. But, if someone wants to challenge or enforce the subpoena, the court that gets to decide that is the court where compliance is required (i.e., where the documents are or where the testimony is to take place), e.g., FRCP(d)(1), (2)(B)(i), and (3)(a) ("the court for the district where compliance is required..")

This isn't a car accident or a tort for conversion. The key question is executive privilege which should definitely be in the court where those types of questions are always decided. I get that their might be jurisdiction where the documents were found, but it would seem like an easy motion to transfer venue.

[Captainant 27276]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

What the fuck?

That's bullshit of the purest ray serene.

I quibbled with Bankstron's handling of the privilege waiver, that's IT.  

I never said jack shit about Alex Jones not getting a fair shake.  As far as I'm concerned, he didn't get fucked hard enough.

You more than quibbled lol, you spent quite a few words talking about how it could jeopardize the trial because of how UNPRECEDENTED it was. Same shit here. Unprecedented craziness occurring, so therefore we should default to the most conservative and minimal position, and ignore the material facts of what's happening. 

In this case, the judge was appointed by trump after he lost the election, he shopped the case to get it in her court, and then she gave him more relief than he petitioned for and made arguments he didn't make. AND she's obstructing DOJ from their criminal investigation and attempting to delay things until after the midterms when the republicans could take the house and further delay shit.  That is fucking insane and corrupt on it's face. That's some shit we'd see in a 3rd world country and correctly condemn. 

Open your fucking eyes and use your brain instead of pounding precedent and concern for decorum and procedure. Our enemies use decorum and procedure like a jingling set of keys to disarm smart folks like you

[RDCanecutter 26233]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

 Lovely bruising, though. 

This is her perfect chance to flinch whenever you reach towards her.

[C-Man 26982]

15 minutes ago, AnTiM said:

Judging by her recent pictures, she appears to have been "rode hard and put up wet".

Jr just ruins these women. His ex-wife is rough looking too.

[TwiceHorn 31169]

17 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Dude. This is about executive privilege and the inappropriate application of it. It's not exactly something that's ripe for abuse by the FBI against your every day citizen. This isn't about cops and unreasonable search and seizure, it's about a former president stealing national defense information and incredibly sensitive intelligence.

There's shit missing. There's HCS's getting killed left and right in the field. You're hand wringing as if this is any other case and a completely average person. 

It's not. It's the man who led a fascist insurrection attempt to overthrow our democratic process. We should be taking this seriously, not aw-shucks-ing. Idk why you care so much about this sort of shit. You didn't think Alex Jones got a fair shake either, and it's a really wild pattern to see from an otherwise reasonable poster. 

Also, as spelled out above, I don't think this proceeding deals with the ultimate issue of the "application," more specifically the sustaining or waiving or "penetrating," executive privilege.  It's a process for sorting the seized documents that will wind up inoculating future proceedings, to wit, indictments.

[Captainant 27276]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Also, as spelled out above, I don't think this proceeding deals with the ultimate issue of the "application," more specifically the sustaining or waiving or "penetrating," executive privilege.  It's a process for sorting the seized documents that will wind up inoculating future proceedings, to wit, indictments.

So in your mind, this judge who issued this ridiculous and legally unsupported ruling is acting in good faith and trying to aid justice, not delay it? 

[lemonlime 5503]

You more than quibbled lol, you spent quite a few words talking about how it could jeopardize the trial because of how UNPRECEDENTED it was. Same shit here. Unprecedented craziness occurring, so therefore we should default to the most conservative and minimal position, and ignore the material facts of what's happening. 
In this case, the judge was appointed by trump after he lost the election, he shopped the case to get it in her court, and then she gave him more relief than he petitioned for and made arguments he didn't make. AND she's obstructing DOJ from their criminal investigation and attempting to delay things until after the midterms when the republicans could take the house and further delay shit.  That is fucking insane and corrupt on it's face. That's some shit we'd see in a 3rd world country and correctly condemn. 
Open your fucking eyes and use your brain instead of pounding precedent and concern for decorum and procedure. Our enemies use decorum and procedure like a jingling set of keys to disarm smart folks like you

Trump should have been arrested along time ago. Murderers aren’t allowed to roam the street for years while an investigation is ongoing. Yet trump tried to overthrow the government, and not only is he free of consequences, he’s had 2 years to rally his people. Meanwhile despite committing criminal acts on tape and camera,he installed many of the people deciding his cases.

You can’t have a functioning democracy where the person who tried to overthrow it is put free continuing his efforts.

I get that doj typically takes a long time to investigate white collar crimes. But these aren’t white collar crimes and they’re hugely different in scale from any crime the FBI has investigated in the past. They given the GQP many months to normalize treason so that when charges finally come if they do, everyone will just stay in their default tribal positions

[TwiceHorn 31169]

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

So in your mind, this judge who issued this ridiculous and legally unsupported ruling is acting in good faith and trying to aid justice, not delay it? 

I don't think it's wholly unsupported.  There's no precedent for it, and the converse, no precedent against it.  There are some decent arguments that she shouldn't have done it, but they're just that, arguments.  And some of them are not so good, actually.

I don't think it's that big a deal in the long run.  It introduces some delay.  That's not ideal, but it's not the end of the world, either.

[safe sex 11649]

How much more delay are they going to fucking get? Jesus Christ

[wildcat09 29183]

I had no idea TwiceHorn was a soviet nuclear scientist in a former life:

 

[TwiceHorn 31169]

8 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Trump should have been arrested along time ago. Murderers aren’t allowed to roam the street for years while an investigation is ongoing. Yet trump tried to overthrow the government, and not only is he free of consequences, he’s had 2 years to rally his people. Meanwhile despite committing criminal acts on tape and camera,he installed many of the people deciding his cases.

You can’t have a functioning democracy where the person who tried to overthrow it is put free continuing his efforts.

I get that doj typically takes a long time to investigate white collar crimes. But these aren’t white collar crimes and they’re hugely different in scale from any crime the FBI has investigated in the past. They given the GQP many months to normalize treason so that when charges finally come if they do, everyone will just stay in their default tribal positions

Still, Trump is a slippery motherfucker and I want the DOJ to dot every I and cross every T before indicting the sonofabitch.

[TwiceHorn 31169]

32 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You more than quibbled lol, you spent quite a few words talking about how it could jeopardize the trial because of how UNPRECEDENTED it was. Same shit here. Unprecedented craziness occurring, so therefore we should default to the most conservative and minimal position, and ignore the material facts of what's happening. 

In this case, the judge was appointed by trump after he lost the election, he shopped the case to get it in her court, and then she gave him more relief than he petitioned for and made arguments he didn't make. AND she's obstructing DOJ from their criminal investigation and attempting to delay things until after the midterms when the republicans could take the house and further delay shit.  That is fucking insane and corrupt on it's face. That's some shit we'd see in a 3rd world country and correctly condemn. 

Open your fucking eyes and use your brain instead of pounding precedent and concern for decorum and procedure. Our enemies use decorum and procedure like a jingling set of keys to disarm smart folks like you

If I thought this would affect the ultimate outcome, and I don't, in case I hadn't said that five times already, I'd be "upset."

[lemonlime 5503]

Still, Trump is a slippery motherfucker and I want the DOJ to dot every I and cross every T before indicting the sonofabitch.

Except they’ve now given him too much rope. Nothing they do will matter. It doesn’t matter how airtight the case is. The cult along with the GQP in government including congress critters and scotus will side with trump. It’s too late for consequences after giving trump years to obstruct and rally the troops.

[Captainant 27276]

6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't think it's that big a deal in the long run.  It introduces some delay.  That's not ideal, but it's not the end of the world, either.

Justice delayed is justice denied. 

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Still, Trump is a slippery motherfucker and I want the DOJ to dot every I and cross every T before indicting the sonofabitch.

Trump isn't a king. What the fuck even is this shit? He's a bully that knows how to manipulate systems and subvert them to his advantage. He's only slippery because of people like you giving him every benefit of the doubt and letting him throw sand in the gears at every turn. 

He did it with real estate and finance in the 80s/90s/00s/10s, and he's doing it now in the 20s with our very democracy. You can't give these people room to breathe and operate. But that's the only answer you ever seen to have - "they'll get around to him eventually...."

[Red Five 40592]

Fucking arrest him. He stole some of the most top secret shit in the world, and refused to give it back, and then lied about giving it back. He's admitted to all of it. 

[David Dennison 18561]

2 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Fucking arrest him. He stole some of the most top secret shit in the world, and refused to give it back, and then lied about giving it back. He's admitted to all of it. 

I don't think they will ever arrest him.

Edited September 6, 2022 by David Dennison

[TwiceHorn 31169]

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Justice delayed is justice denied. 

Trump isn't a king. What the fuck even is this shit? He's a bully that knows how to manipulate systems and subvert them to his advantage. He's only slippery because of people like you giving him every benefit of the doubt and letting him throw sand in the gears at every turn. 

He did it with real estate and finance in the 80s/90s/00s/10s, and he's doing it now in the 20s with our very democracy. You can't give these people room to breathe and operate. But that's the only answer you ever seen to have - "they'll get around to him eventually...."

I'll accept some delay if DOJ nails him.

I'm the biggest advocate for patience while Garlandco do work.  Most of you would have impeached Garland by now.

This, for example, has no impact on 1/6, which is a bigger case that, pending further information, demands more accountability than this imbroglio.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

I don't think they will ever arrest him.

If they're not going to arrest him can they at least detain him Minneapolis style for nine and a half minutes?

[Blotto 23415]

29 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

You can’t have a functioning democracy where the person who tried to overthrow it is put free continuing his efforts.

It continues to amaze me. The Jan 6th hearings seem like  a year ago and now everyone has moved onto the document conspiracy. Guess what.... in another month, there will be a new fucked up Trump controversy to distract the masses, and most will have moved on from giving a shit about what happened in mar-a-lago. Its his MO. Sooner or later the GOP gets back in control, every investigation gets shut down, everyone gets pardoned, and the DOJ will be sitting around with their dicks in their hands worried about whether they dotted all the "i's" and crossed all the "t's" on legal filings that will be flushed down the toilet. 

The president of the United States was on a recorded phone call leaning on GA election officials to find him enough votes to win the state. He currently just tours around the country working to delegitimize our election process and  inciting violence while his congressional allies are suggesting riots should the fat piece of shit get prosecuted. Somebody have some fucking balls and throw that orange piece of shit in jail. Insanity. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Blotto

[Dahobbs 17417]

47 minutes ago, 'stache said:

This isn't a car accident or a tort for conversion. The key question is executive privilege which should definitely be in the court where those types of questions are always decided. I get that their might be jurisdiction where the documents were found, but it would seem like an easy motion to transfer venue.

I don't think that changes the jurisdictional argument. I agree, the court handling the criminal procedure should resolve the merits based issue as to whether the privilege protects Trump to some extent in the criminal proceeding or effects the admissibility of evidence (although, frankly, I don't understand in what context executive privilege really matters for the underlying criminal investigation). But as to the mechanics of how the subpoena gets enforced, I believe our jurisdictional jurisprudence (as reflected in the rules of civil procedure) says that is for the court where compliance happens. It is probably an antiquated view or jurisdiction, but as far as I know it is still the law. At least on the civil side, you wouldn't have legal support to transfer venue back to the issuing court absent an agreement of the parties. 

[Captainant 27276]

Twicehorn is clearly someone who's never dealt with a bully who's operating in bad faith. This is reaching atomheart levels of pollyana. 

10 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm the biggest advocate for patience while Garlandco do work.  Most of you would have impeached Garland by now.

Garland is doing work. Except this post electoral loss appointed judge is actively preventing DOJ's investigation and going above and beyond what the defendants even fucking filed and argued for relief from. You tell me how often that happens. 

And as we've seen, there's much more interconnected shit than is apparent at a glance. Alex Jones' fucking text messages (insert appropriate pearl clutching here) turned up more Jan6 shit that went to the committee. You don't think this investigation may overlap somewhat in terms of evidence and facts with Jan6? 

You really don't think holding hundreds of EXTREMELY classified documents to use as blackmail against the government could have any bearing whatsoever into the investigation on an active attack on our government? If so, I've got a bridge to sell you

[TwiceHorn 31169]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

I don't think that changes the jurisdictional argument. I agree, the court handling the criminal procedure should resolve the merits based issue as to whether the privilege protects Trump to some extent in the criminal proceeding or effects the admissibility of evidence (although, frankly, I don't understand in what context executive privilege really matters for the underlying criminal investigation). But as to the mechanics of how the subpoena gets enforced, I believe our jurisdictional jurisprudence (as reflected in the rules of civil procedure) says that is for the court where compliance happens. It is probably an antiquated view or jurisdiction, but as far as I know it is still the law. At least on the civil side, you wouldn't have legal support to transfer venue back to the issuing court absent an agreement of the parties. 

If this proceeding, any of it, results in Cannon making the substantive determination about executive privilege and whether Biden (when he does it) properly waived it, I will be pissed.  That belongs in the DC district court, and I believe the DC district court and court of appeals are the best forum for this, not only because of their politics, they just have a boatload more experience with this kind of thing.

As it stands, I don't see that being an issue, yet, because Biden hasn't yet weighed in on it.  His determination should be near-conclusive and any contest of it belongs in the DC federal courts.

 

[lemonlime 5503]

If this proceeding, any of it, results in Cannon making the substantive determination about executive privilege and whether Biden (when he does it) properly waived it, I will be pissed.  That belongs in the DC district court, and I believe the DC district court and court of appeals are the best forum for this, not only because of their politics, they just have a boatload more experience with this kind of thing.
As it stands, I don't see that being an issue, yet, because Biden hasn't yet weighed in on it.  His determination should be near-conclusive and any contest of it belongs in the DC federal courts.
 

Why would Biden have weighed in on executive privilege? Trump never actually asserted it. He never identified any documents or even topics that are privileged. Why would Biden have to affirmatively waive a privilege that has never been properly invoked? Trump only filed a nonsense shit flinging motion in a different court than the one overseeing the investigation in which his lawyers argued for a special master over stolen records under dubious grounds of executive privilege, again without identifying any items that are actually subject to the privilege. It’s not some magic phrase that you can wave around to stop investigations. The next time I’m stopped for speeding I’m gonna argue that attorney client privilege applies. Which makes exactly as much sense as what trumps legal team is arguing here

[TheStoicPaisano 9904]

 

[ChiTownDoc 21090]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

What the fuck?

That's bullshit of the purest ray serene.

I quibbled with Bankstron's handling of the privilege waiver, that's IT.  

I never said jack shit about Alex Jones not getting a fair shake.  As far as I'm concerned, he didn't get fucked hard enough.  The privilege waiver deal was an insignificant sideshow in the whole deal.

I think I'm onto you.  Exactly how far does that tie in your av go down?  If it's below that Cat's balls, you're busted.  

[Satchel 6908]

Don’t know what the resident SMEs think, but it seems the most egregious part of Judge Trump’s ruling is her order to halt the investigation pending the findings of the special master. That kind of action is taken when the complainant has a good chance of prevailing. Does Trump?

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2654]

This^^^

Who could possibly have the proper experience and clearances necessary to be the SM and also be agreeable to both parties? (Why should Trump get a say anyway, he hasn't made any prima facie showing of privileged docs that are his privilege to assert, to begin with)...

To me, there's the rub at this point and why this shit isn't going to be a couple months of delay (as if that isn't bad enough... there are some uh, elections coming up). Just getting the SM appointed and starting the process is going to be full of Trump obstructions and delays. Hope I'm wrong but not seeing it

[Ghost of LL 15347]

1 hour ago, lemonlime said:

Trump should have been arrested along time ago. Murderers aren’t allowed to roam the street for years while an investigation is ongoing. Yet trump tried to overthrow the government, and not only is he free of consequences, he’s had 2 years to rally his people. Meanwhile despite committing criminal acts on tape and camera,he installed many of the people deciding his cases.

You can’t have a functioning democracy where the person who tried to overthrow it is put free continuing his efforts.

I get that doj typically takes a long time to investigate white collar crimes. But these aren’t white collar crimes and they’re hugely different in scale from any crime the FBI has investigated in the past. They given the GQP many months to normalize treason so that when charges finally come if they do, everyone will just stay in their default tribal positions

Let me take a slightly contrary position.

I was talking about this with Mrs.LL over the weekend, as she was looking gleefully as Trump's recent picture in which he looks unhealthy.  She was speculating about his possibly imminent death, and I told her to tap the brakes.  I think we might have crossed the tipping point at which he is now doing so much harm to the GQP that he's actually now a net-benefit to the country.

Think about his impact on the midterms.  It has only been negative for the GQP, primarily in two ways:

1) Candidates can only get the GQP nomination if they have Trump's endorsement, and Trump is a shitty evaluator/recruiter of candidates.  Trump is the entire reason we have Blake Masters and Mehmet Oz running in Arizona and Pennsylvania, respectively.  Those should be very winnable seats for Republicans.  Now, they're almost certainly going to be Democratic wins.  Trump is the reason Alaska now has a Democratic representative.  He's the reason that Georgia seat is competitive.  He has singlehandedly absolutely fucked the GQP out of the Senate based on candidate recruitment alone.

2) And now, as their shitty candidates get into the stretch run for the midterms, they'd love to be talking about all the ways in which Biden supposedly sucks.  They'd love to be talking about inflation, or something something taxes.  Or I'm sure there's some caravan coming.  Or whatever they tell their band of idiots that motivates them to show up.  But they can't do that right now, and it's entirely because of Trump. 

Anytime any GQP candidate is interviewed right now, the first question s/he gets is "was it ok for Donald Trump to take classified documents."  And . . . and I have to tell you right here, if I had a heart at all, I might have some sympathy for the poor fuckers . . . they have no choice but to defend Trump.  Because Trump's band of idiot followers demand it.  But right there, the campaign message is derailed.  The appeal to Independents is right out the window.  Suddenly, there was no fucking point to granting the interview to begin with--which is why you see so few Republicans granting interviews (though going radio-silent is a shitty way to make your case to undecided voters).

That's all fucking Trump.

And it's not going to end.  Because after Congress comes back into session, the January 6 Committee is going to fire back up.  And so Republican candidates are going to have to defend Trump on that front, as well.  And so they're forced to talk about Trump constantly.

And Trump is the last fucking thing they want to talk about, because . . . and here's the real dirty secret . . . his fucking low-information voters only show up when Donald Trump is on the fucking ballot.  So they have to defend him because they will vote against them if they betray Trump.  But they're still not going to show up to support a Republican candidate not named "Donald Trump" no matter how obsequious they are to him.

It's fucking great, and we might ought to hope it never ends.

[The Royal We 3059]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Let me take a slightly contrary position.

I was talking about this with Mrs.LL over the weekend, as she was looking gleefully as Trump's recent picture in which he looks unhealthy.  She was speculating about his possibly imminent death, and I told her to tap the brakes.  I think we might have crossed the tipping point at which he is now doing so much harm to the GQP that he's actually now a net-benefit to the country.

Think about his impact on the midterms.  It has only been negative for the GQP, primarily in two ways:

1) Candidates can only get the GQP nomination if they have Trump's endorsement, and Trump is a shitty evaluator/recruiter of candidates.  Trump is the entire reason we have Blake Masters and Mehmet Oz running in Arizona and Pennsylvania, respectively.  Those should be very winnable seats for Republicans.  Now, they're almost certainly going to be Democratic wins.  Trump is the reason Alaska now has a Democratic representative.  He's the reason that Georgia seat is competitive.  He has singlehandedly absolutely fucked the GQP out of the Senate based on candidate recruitment alone.

2) And now, as their shitty candidates get into the stretch run for the midterms, they'd love to be talking about all the ways in which Biden supposedly sucks.  They'd love to be talking about inflation, or something something taxes.  Or I'm sure there's some caravan coming.  Or whatever they tell their band of idiots that motivates them to show up.  But they can't do that right now, and it's entirely because of Trump. 

Anytime any GQP candidate is interviewed right now, the first question s/he gets is "was it ok for Donald Trump to take classified documents."  And . . . and I have to tell you right here, if I had a heart at all, I might have some sympathy for the poor fuckers . . . they have no choice but to defend Trump.  Because Trump's band of idiot followers demand it.  But right there, the campaign message is derailed.  The appeal to Independents is right out the window.  Suddenly, there was no fucking point to granting the interview to begin with--which is why you see so few Republicans granting interviews (though going radio-silent is a shitty way to make your case to undecided voters).

That's all fucking Trump.

And it's not going to end.  Because after Congress comes back into session, the January 6 Committee is going to fire back up.  And so Republican candidates are going to have to defend Trump on that front, as well.  And so they're forced to talk about Trump constantly.

And Trump is the last fucking thing they want to talk about, because . . . and here's the real dirty secret . . . his fucking low-information voters only show up when Donald Trump is on the fucking ballot.  So they have to defend him because they will vote against them if they betray Trump.  But they're still not going to show up to support a Republican candidate not named "Donald Trump" no matter how obsequious they are to him.

It's fucking great, and we might ought to hope it never ends.

[Foosters 17690]

6 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

I think we might have crossed the tipping point at which he is now doing so much harm to the GQP that he's actually now a net-benefit to the country.

I reached this point shortly after the "raid" on Mar-a-lago. Higher risk-reward, though, than him simply kicking the bucket this week. 

[TexasEd 8061]

23 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Recall that there are two bases for executive privilege and thus two "aspects" of it.  As previously mentioned, one aspect is based on separation of powers:  Congress cannot get into executive deliberation and process materials under the guise of oversight, unless there is a particular need for the materials.

The other is "deliberative process" privilege.  And that is based on the notion that, regardless of who is "asking" for the materials, documents and testimony revealing the deliberative process of the President or executive branch officials may be shielded from disclosure, even when it's not Congress that's asking.  When exactly this might apply against the executive branch itself is quite unclear, but it is a thing, nevertheless.

So all of that leaves the tiniest bit of wiggle room for a "successful" assertion of privilege by Trump.  But even after this foofaraw, I rather highly doubt that he succeeds.

Also, although not mentioned in the opinion, this latest "tranche" of documents has not been the subject of a formal assertion of privilege by Trump and consideration (and hopefully waiver) of that privilege by Biden.  If Biden's White House Counsel does as good a job as it did with the 1/6 documents, the privilege waiver will be upheld.

So if the notes talked about Nancy Regan's astrologer's influence on policy decisions or cables from V. Putin telling Trump what his decision is on disbanding NATO those would be classified under Executive privilege?

 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

11 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Let me take a slightly contrary position.

I was talking about this with Mrs.LL over the weekend, as she was looking gleefully as Trump's recent picture in which he looks unhealthy.  She was speculating about his possibly imminent death, and I told her to tap the brakes.  I think we might have crossed the tipping point at which he is now doing so much harm to the GQP that he's actually now a net-benefit to the country.

Think about his impact on the midterms.  It has only been negative for the GQP, primarily in two ways:

1) Candidates can only get the GQP nomination if they have Trump's endorsement, and Trump is a shitty evaluator/recruiter of candidates.  Trump is the entire reason we have Blake Masters and Mehmet Oz running in Arizona and Pennsylvania, respectively.  Those should be very winnable seats for Republicans.  Now, they're almost certainly going to be Democratic wins.  Trump is the reason Alaska now has a Democratic representative.  He's the reason that Georgia seat is competitive.  He has singlehandedly absolutely fucked the GQP out of the Senate based on candidate recruitment alone.

2) And now, as their shitty candidates get into the stretch run for the midterms, they'd love to be talking about all the ways in which Biden supposedly sucks.  They'd love to be talking about inflation, or something something taxes.  Or I'm sure there's some caravan coming.  Or whatever they tell their band of idiots that motivates them to show up.  But they can't do that right now, and it's entirely because of Trump. 

Anytime any GQP candidate is interviewed right now, the first question s/he gets is "was it ok for Donald Trump to take classified documents."  And . . . and I have to tell you right here, if I had a heart at all, I might have some sympathy for the poor fuckers . . . they have no choice but to defend Trump.  Because Trump's band of idiot followers demand it.  But right there, the campaign message is derailed.  The appeal to Independents is right out the window.  Suddenly, there was no fucking point to granting the interview to begin with--which is why you see so few Republicans granting interviews (though going radio-silent is a shitty way to make your case to undecided voters).

That's all fucking Trump.

And it's not going to end.  Because after Congress comes back into session, the January 6 Committee is going to fire back up.  And so Republican candidates are going to have to defend Trump on that front, as well.  And so they're forced to talk about Trump constantly.

And Trump is the last fucking thing they want to talk about, because . . . and here's the real dirty secret . . . his fucking low-information voters only show up when Donald Trump is on the fucking ballot.  So they have to defend him because they will vote against them if they betray Trump.  But they're still not going to show up to support a Republican candidate not named "Donald Trump" no matter how obsequious they are to him.

It's fucking great, and we might ought to hope it never ends.

 

As usual, you write well.  But for me, perceived possible political victories don't hold a candle to the effect of letting prominent politicians get away with obvious crimes.  Look at how much Desantis is imitating Trump.  Not to mention the damage he is doing to Florida with no accountablity.  Sounds familiar.  Of course I've seen it argued that the progenitors of the illegal war in Iraq getting away with everything set us up for where we are now.

In short, you have to stop the bleeding somewhere.  The longer Trump roams free, the message to everyone else inclined to be like him is 'go ahead.'  And like others, I think he'll continue to roam free, as much as I hope to be wrong.

Edited September 6, 2022 by MC Fresh Breath

[Dahobbs 17417]

15 minutes ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

This^^^

Who could possibly have the proper experience and clearances necessary to be the SM and also be agreeable to both parties? (Why should Trump get a say anyway, he hasn't made any prima facie showing of privileged docs that are his privilege to assert, to begin with)...

To me, there's the rub at this point and why this shit isn't going to be a couple months of delay (as if that isn't bad enough... there are some uh, elections coming up). Just getting the SM appointed and starting the process is going to be full of Trump obstructions and delays. Hope I'm wrong but not seeing it

This is definitely a good point. Normally the answer would be that the judge would just choose someone. But if you feel the judge is biased in someway towards Trump, that isn't a good thing.

[lemonlime 5503]

Let me take a slightly contrary position.
I was talking about this with Mrs.LL over the weekend, as she was looking gleefully as Trump's recent picture in which he looks unhealthy.  She was speculating about his possibly imminent death, and I told her to tap the brakes.  I think we might have crossed the tipping point at which he is now doing so much harm to the GQP that he's actually now a net-benefit to the country.
Think about his impact on the midterms.  It has only been negative for the GQP, primarily in two ways:
1) Candidates can only get the GQP nomination if they have Trump's endorsement, and Trump is a shitty evaluator/recruiter of candidates.  Trump is the entire reason we have Blake Masters and Mehmet Oz running in Arizona and Pennsylvania, respectively.  Those should be very winnable seats for Republicans.  Now, they're almost certainly going to be Democratic wins.  Trump is the reason Alaska now has a Democratic representative.  He's the reason that Georgia seat is competitive.  He has singlehandedly absolutely fucked the GQP out of the Senate based on candidate recruitment alone.
2) And now, as their shitty candidates get into the stretch run for the midterms, they'd love to be talking about all the ways in which Biden supposedly sucks.  They'd love to be talking about inflation, or something something taxes.  Or I'm sure there's some caravan coming.  Or whatever they tell their band of idiots that motivates them to show up.  But they can't do that right now, and it's entirely because of Trump. 
Anytime any GQP candidate is interviewed right now, the first question s/he gets is "was it ok for Donald Trump to take classified documents."  And . . . and I have to tell you right here, if I had a heart at all, I might have some sympathy for the poor fuckers . . . they have no choice but to defend Trump.  Because Trump's band of idiot followers demand it.  But right there, the campaign message is derailed.  The appeal to Independents is right out the window.  Suddenly, there was no fucking point to granting the interview to begin with--which is why you see so few Republicans granting interviews (though going radio-silent is a shitty way to make your case to undecided voters).
That's all fucking Trump.
And it's not going to end.  Because after Congress comes back into session, the January 6 Committee is going to fire back up.  And so Republican candidates are going to have to defend Trump on that front, as well.  And so they're forced to talk about Trump constantly.
And Trump is the last fucking thing they want to talk about, because . . . and here's the real dirty secret . . . his fucking low-information voters only show up when Donald Trump is on the fucking ballot.  So they have to defend him because they will vote against them if they betray Trump.  But they're still not going to show up to support a Republican candidate not named "Donald Trump" no matter how obsequious they are to him.
It's fucking great, and we might ought to hope it never ends.

God, I hope you’re right. But I can’t shake the feeling that we’re letting a mass murder go around committing more murders while the investigators get tied up investigating an ever increasing number of murders and perfecting those cases. Meanwhile, scores more are murdered and hopefully the investigators, judges and juries don’t get whacked while all the investigating is going on.

[Ghost of LL 15347]

14 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

God, I hope you’re right. But I can’t shake the feeling that we’re letting a mass murder go around committing more murders while the investigators get tied up investigating an ever increasing number of murders and perfecting those cases. Meanwhile, scores more are murdered and hopefully the investigators, judges and juries don’t get whacked while all the investigating is going on.

Right now, the only people he's murdering are Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger.  And sorry, but I'm not going to weep for them.

@Foosters is right that Trump remaining alive and politically active (which are fairly redundant) is higher-risk/higher-reward.  And to be clear, there is going to be a huge reward when he dies.  Without that gravitational center, it's hard to see how the Republican Party stays together post-Trump.

Right now, the GQP really is a collection of misfit toys.  The white supremacists; the teavangelicals; the Q nuts; the "conservatives" (whoever the fuck they are anymore)--who the fuck unites those people?  And then who manages to do that and also motivate the low-information voters who never voted in any election before and probably never will again (and who probably made up at least 5% of Trump's 2020 vote).

The Republican Party is a minority party right now.  But after Trump dies, it's only getting smaller.

[Pato del Muerto 52312]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

The Republican Party is a minority party right now.  But after Trump dies, it's only getting smaller.

Which is why the party plan is to make elections irrelevant.  And letting trump suffer no consequences for the insurrection furthers that cause. 

[Hmbre97 6297]

You’ve got this wrong. There’s no precedent for a special master to review claims of executive privilege - the attorney client docs can be handled by the standing taint team.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2784]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

And sorry, but I'm not going to weep for them.

They deserve at least a slow clap, or a reluctant toast.

[Beau Vine 53949]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

Let me take a slightly contrary position.

I was talking about this with Mrs.LL over the weekend, as she was looking gleefully as Trump's recent picture in which he looks unhealthy.  She was speculating about his possibly imminent death, and I told her to tap the brakes.  I think we might have crossed the tipping point at which he is now doing so much harm to the GQP that he's actually now a net-benefit to the country.

Think about his impact on the midterms.  It has only been negative for the GQP, primarily in two ways:

1) Candidates can only get the GQP nomination if they have Trump's endorsement, and Trump is a shitty evaluator/recruiter of candidates.  Trump is the entire reason we have Blake Masters and Mehmet Oz running in Arizona and Pennsylvania, respectively.  Those should be very winnable seats for Republicans.  Now, they're almost certainly going to be Democratic wins.  Trump is the reason Alaska now has a Democratic representative.  He's the reason that Georgia seat is competitive.  He has singlehandedly absolutely fucked the GQP out of the Senate based on candidate recruitment alone.

2) And now, as their shitty candidates get into the stretch run for the midterms, they'd love to be talking about all the ways in which Biden supposedly sucks.  They'd love to be talking about inflation, or something something taxes.  Or I'm sure there's some caravan coming.  Or whatever they tell their band of idiots that motivates them to show up.  But they can't do that right now, and it's entirely because of Trump. 

Anytime any GQP candidate is interviewed right now, the first question s/he gets is "was it ok for Donald Trump to take classified documents."  And . . . and I have to tell you right here, if I had a heart at all, I might have some sympathy for the poor fuckers . . . they have no choice but to defend Trump.  Because Trump's band of idiot followers demand it.  But right there, the campaign message is derailed.  The appeal to Independents is right out the window.  Suddenly, there was no fucking point to granting the interview to begin with--which is why you see so few Republicans granting interviews (though going radio-silent is a shitty way to make your case to undecided voters).

That's all fucking Trump.

And it's not going to end.  Because after Congress comes back into session, the January 6 Committee is going to fire back up.  And so Republican candidates are going to have to defend Trump on that front, as well.  And so they're forced to talk about Trump constantly.

And Trump is the last fucking thing they want to talk about, because . . . and here's the real dirty secret . . . his fucking low-information voters only show up when Donald Trump is on the fucking ballot.  So they have to defend him because they will vote against them if they betray Trump.  But they're still not going to show up to support a Republican candidate not named "Donald Trump" no matter how obsequious they are to him.

It's fucking great, and we might ought to hope it never ends.

OTOH, if he died, it would be extremely easy to convince his cult to go to the voting booth and write "Donald J. Trump" in as a write-in candidate for every single race on the ballot as a tribute to him.