A story about a pathetic man's downfall [34 Felony Convictions]

[RomaVicta 29941]

28 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Trump told Woodward how bad Covid would be in February 2020 when he was still pretending to the world it wouldn’t be a problem and Woodward sat on it for a book.

The story there is Trump's denial and when he knew he was lying. There was plenty of coverage about Covid already breaking in Feb.

Trump's denial was screamingly public amid the medical world's concerns. Trump thought we'd be fine as long as we didn't let that passenger boat land on the West Coast. He was already under intense criticism that didn't do any good.

I don't follow Haberman or often read the NY Times (I subscribe to the Washington Post service), if she is called a reporter, she should be fired at once. I don't get the impression that actual reporters whom I often see on TV are holding back. There is still great pride in breaking a story. Being the one to break a story is usually the path to a book deal anyway. All the President's Men comes immediately to mind.

[WhatTheBuck 28791]

39 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Trump told Woodward how bad Covid would be in February 2020 when he was still pretending to the world it wouldn’t be a problem and Woodward sat on it for a book.

Trump told Woodward that he knew a year earlier, in 2019, how serious the danger of the virus was but he wanted to play it down. It’s not like Woodward could have made a difference if he had published the recording of that interview as soon as it happened. That was information we could’ve used in February 2019. If Trump had told Woodward back then that he secretly knew what a grave threat the virus was but was intentionally deceiving the American people about it, I’m sure Bob would’ve gone public with that info immediately.

Also, we have to consider the possibility that Trump was lying to Woodward and that he really didn’t understand the threat of the virus in early 2019 but was changing his story after the fact.

Rage is a good book, btw. Woodward got lots of recorded interviews from Trump and the book is filled with transcriptions. It gives you a firsthand look at the rambling, incoherent rants of this utter buffoon. 

[WhatTheBuck 28791]

20 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Trump thought we'd be fine as long as we didn't let that passenger boat land on the West Coast.

Jesus, that was so fucking stupid. Keep the sick people offshore and we don’t have to count them, that way we’ll keep our numbers down. It’s all about appearances and ratings with that guy, not substance. It’s just like when he railed against testing saying that if we don’t test then we won’t have cases. Never mind that people are getting sick. If we don’t know about them then it won’t make him look bad. 

[Biff Tannen 45692]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Rage is a good book, btw. Woodward got lots of recorded interviews from Trump and the book is filled with transcriptions. It gives you a firsthand look at the rambling, incoherent rants of this utter buffoon. 

I got enough of that before he got kicked of twitter.  And I wasn't even on twitter then.  Pass.

[Dahobbs 17626]

15 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Trump told Woodward that he knew a year earlier, in 2019, how serious the danger of the virus was but he wanted to play it down. It’s not like Woodward could have made a difference if he had published the recording of that interview as soon as it happened. That was information we could’ve used in February 2019. If Trump had told Woodward back then that he secretly knew what a grave threat the virus was but was intentionally deceiving the American people about it, I’m sure Bob would’ve gone public with that info immediately.

Also, we have to consider the possibility that Trump was lying to Woodward and that he really didn’t understand the threat of the virus in early 2019 but was changing his story after the fact.

Rage is a good book, btw. Woodward got lots of recorded interviews from Trump and the book is filled with transcriptions. It gives you a firsthand look at the rambling, incoherent rants of this utter buffoon. 

Um... Covid-19 didn't exist in February of 2019. Or, if it did, nobody was aware of it. 

[Dahobbs 17626]

35 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I don't follow Haberman or often read the NY Times (I subscribe to the Washington Post service), if she is called a reporter, she should be fired at once. I don't get the impression that actual reporters whom I often see on TV are holding back. There is still great pride in breaking a story. Being the one to break a story is usually the path to a book deal anyway. All the President's Men comes immediately to mind.

I don't see the Haberman story being a big deal. He didn't tell her he kept classified documents. Just that he had some memento type documents. It certainly didn't hint at anything illegal. It only looks like a bigger story now because we know he did in fact keep a lot of sensitive material that he should not have had. 

[WhatTheBuck 28791]

6 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I got enough of that before he got kicked of twitter.  And I wasn't even on twitter then.  Pass.

It’s not like Trump is the only person Woodward interviewed for the book. I think his credentials as an investigative journalist are pretty well established at this point. You get a lot more from reading books than from reading Twitter or watching tv. As books on the Trump administration go, both Fear and Rage are worthwhile reads.

I didn’t read Peril which he wrote with Robert Costa. I elected to go with Betrayal by Jonathan Karl instead. That’s really good too. It is a bit of a chore to study the Trump presidency because he’s such an obnoxious, offensive, reprehensible would-be authoritarian. It would be easier not to study it at all but I figure it’s my duty to stay informed on it despite what a distasteful exercise it is.

[RomaVicta 29941]

8 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I don't see the Haberman story being a big deal. He didn't tell her he kept classified documents. Just that he had some memento type documents. It certainly didn't hint at anything illegal. It only looks like a bigger story now because we know he did in fact keep a lot of sensitive material that he should not have had. 

You're right. "Classified documents" is a term from the description of the piece which actually says "government records." I haven't read any deeper, but I'll accept your characterization. Seems the actual transgression is with Lindy Li whoever she is.

[wildcat09 29355]

16 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Um... Covid-19 didn't exist in February of 2019. Or, if it did, nobody was aware of it. 

Yeah, I don’t know what the fuck Buck is talking about.

[WhatTheBuck 28791]

12 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Um... Covid-19 didn't exist in February of 2019. Or, if it did, nobody was aware of it. 

Oh, right. I got my dates mixed up. 

[WhatTheBuck 28791]

8 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Yeah, I don’t know what the fuck Buck is talking about.

I got mixed up. You’re right. Woodward probably should’ve gone public immediately when he recorded Trump saying the virus was a bigger threat than he was letting on. We definitely can know that in retrospect. I can understand som restraint since we didn’t know at the time it would eventually turn into a full blown pandemic. But it should’ve been reported that Trump was saying one thing publicly and another thing in private.

And the uncomfortable truth is that Woodward’s access to Trump for interviews might have dried up. That’s a tricky situation.

In Bob’s defense, I knew back in February 2020 when Trump was calling the virus a “Democrat” hoax that he was full of shit and it was something to be taken seriously. I didn’t know if I should start stocking up on toilet paper and hand sanitizer yet. But I knew Trump wasn’t qualified to handle the situation. I don’t know how much of an impact it would’ve had if Woodward had released the tape. 

[Tuco 5076]

Rage is a good book, btw. Woodward got lots of recorded interviews from Trump and the book is filled with transcriptions. It gives you a firsthand look at the rambling, incoherent rants of this utter buffoon. 

I bought it several months ago, but I couldn’t muster the willpower to start it until recently. Still have to take it in small portions.
Bush at War was a great read and gave me a much clearer understanding of the start of the war in Afghanistan than what I could get from the news.

[Pato del Muerto 52531]

If we didn’t know that trump took classified documents, I think we’d be upset but not surprised to hear him admit to stealing documents that belong to the US government as trophies and mementos.  

[WhatTheBuck 28791]

37 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Bush at War was a great read and gave me a much clearer understanding of the start of the war in Afghanistan than what I could get from the news.

That book was eye opening in how much more information you got there than you could get from the news. That whole trilogy was excellent. (There was a fourth book but I gathered that it was just a collection of unused material from the first three and I never read it.)

I really never read books on politics much before 9/11, but then things changed. As for the war in Afghanistan, Jawbreaker by Gary Berntsen is excellent. A top CIA operative, he describes in detail the strategy of using a small number of our special forces to use surveillance and to direct air support, like a few guys on the ground using laser targeting, to allow Afghan fighters from the Northern Alliance to swiftly dispatch the Taliban. He also describes how they pled for more American forces when they had bin Laden trapped at Tora Bora and how that request was rejected from the highest levels of the administration.

But he describes the same tactics that we’ve used in Iraq and Syria. It’s fascinating. One interesting anecdote is the time some members of the Northern Alliance asked if they could get American dollars in smaller denominations than hundred dollar bills. These guys were sent in with suitcases full of hundies in order to buy the Alliance’s support. The problem, they said, was that no one could make change so a cup of coffee wound up going for $100. They were flush with cash in an impoverished country and its value became totally distorted.

[wildcat09 29355]

2 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I got mixed up. You’re right. Woodward probably should’ve gone public immediately when he recorded Trump saying the virus was a bigger threat than he was letting on. We definitely can know that in retrospect. I can understand som restraint since we didn’t know at the time it would eventually turn into a full blown pandemic. But it should’ve been reported that Trump was saying one thing publicly and another thing in private.

And the uncomfortable truth is that Woodward’s access to Trump for interviews might have dried up. That’s a tricky situation.

In Bob’s defense, I knew back in February 2020 when Trump was calling the virus a “Democrat” hoax that he was full of shit and it was something to be taken seriously. I didn’t know if I should start stocking up on toilet paper and hand sanitizer yet. But I knew Trump wasn’t qualified to handle the situation. I don’t know how much of an impact it would’ve had if Woodward had released the tape. 

Unless a reporter is pretty sure that publishing the important story they're sitting on would lead to a nuclear war, they should publish it. It's not their job to weigh the potential impact.

I said this when Woodward's book first came out and everyone here handwaved it away because most of the posters here erroneously think that most people in the country pay close attention to politics, but it's absurd to think that releasing that tape at the time wouldn't have had some impact. Maybe not on the eventual election, but it very well might have saved tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of lives. You might have known he was full of shit, I might have known he was full of shit, but the majority of Americans don't follow politics all that closely and just saw that nobody else they knew was freaking out about it. And with most people not realizing they needed to be concerned, and without any better information indicating that they should be concerned, most state and local officials lost a month or so in which they could've better prepared. Shit got damned near apocalyptic early on in NYC because they didn't understand how bad it could be, and that's not a state run by people who were particularly trusting of Trump.  

[The Dog 44067]

Uh...wow:

Kise off the documents case. Must have told Trump the truth and he didn't like it.

[C-Man 27235]

15 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Poorest multimillionaire ever?

He’s definitely rich. He’s not as rich as he says he is. But he’s definitely rich. He was born rich. And he’s a very successful grifter. 

He’s the worst.

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Uh...wow:

Kise off the documents case. Must have told Trump the truth and he didn't like it.

Does he keep the $3M? Not bad for a couple weeks of work!

[chainsaw 9872]

Kise: yo you don't need legal advice you need legal advice.

[henrygandorf 29194]

2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Unless a reporter is pretty sure that publishing the important story they're sitting on would lead to a nuclear war, they should publish it. It's not their job to weigh the potential impact.

I said this when Woodward's book first came out and everyone here handwaved it away because most of the posters here erroneously think that most people in the country pay close attention to politics, but it's absurd to think that releasing that tape at the time wouldn't have had some impact. Maybe not on the eventual election, but it very well might have saved tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of lives. You might have known he was full of shit, I might have known he was full of shit, but the majority of Americans don't follow politics all that closely and just saw that nobody else they knew was freaking out about it. And with most people not realizing they needed to be concerned, and without any better information indicating that they should be concerned, most state and local officials lost a month or so in which they could've better prepared. Shit got damned near apocalyptic early on in NYC because they didn't understand how bad it could be, and that's not a state run by people who were particularly trusting of Trump.  

yeah, my initial post was about haberman, who's a whole other issue, but it seems over the past few years, the people who held stuff back were govt employees, not journalists.  yeah, a lot of folks gave interviews about shit trump was doing, and everything was like, yeah, obviously, he's a fucking dunce.  but there were a few items from bolton and other high ranking officials that seemed to be held back for books, instead of presented in real time when something could've actually been done about it.

whether investigative journalists have the duty or obligation to come forward asap with their findings is a connected but not identical topic.  it was just that the haberman news hit last night and got the twitters rumbling.  i wasn't singling her out as much as using her as an example, because it's happened a bunch of times.

[Pig Bellmont 8719]

48 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Uh...wow:

Kise off the documents case. Must have told Trump the truth and he didn't like it.

Wasn’t Kise a registered foreign agent? I don’t know if that’s a wholesale disqualification keeping him from seeing any docs that relate to national security, but that’s more likely than he was simply sidelined or fired 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20453]

2 hours ago, The Dog said:

Uh...wow:

Kise off the documents case. Must have told Trump the truth and he didn't like it.

The best part of the story?

"Kise, a former Florida solicitor general, was brought on just weeks ago to add some much-needed experience to Trump's legal team, which before had included former One America New Network host Christina Bobb, Florida insurance lawyer Lindsey Halligan, and Alina Habba, who previously served as general counsel for a parking-garage firm."

[The Dog 44067]

1 hour ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Wasn’t Kise a registered foreign agent? I don’t know if that’s a wholesale disqualification keeping him from seeing any docs that relate to national security, but that’s more likely than he was simply sidelined or fired 

That’s also possible - but there’s also this:

 

[Biff Tannen 45692]

14 minutes ago, The Dog said:

That’s also possible - but there’s also this:

 

What say you Surly lawyers?

[DDD Dad 14344]

7 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

What say you Surly lawyers?

Could be one of a number of reasons.  We'll likely never know (due to attorney-client privilege).

[Foosters 17858]

9 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

What say you Surly lawyers?

I'd tell you, but I'd have to bill you.

[Red Five 40875]

7 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Could be one of a number of reasons.  We'll likely never know (due to attorney-client privilege).

"Ok, the plan is, we claim the documents were planted there. Also, they were there looking for Hillary's emails. Also, they're all mine anyway. Hey where are you going?"

[Dahobbs 17626]

22 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

What say you Surly lawyers?

I think that is a decent enough theory. We may have some more insight once we see Trump's next filing. 

[TwiceHorn 31510]

3 hours ago, The Dog said:

Uh...wow:

Kise off the documents case. Must have told Trump the truth and he didn't like it.

Impressive.

The briefing quality improved substantially when he appeared in the case.

He has not moved to withdraw in the MAL case, yet.

I'm going to guess that if he had major problems with what they're filing or representing to the court he would withdraw as counsel of record.

Edited September 27, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Beau Vine 54294]

8 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I think that is a decent enough theory. We may have some more insight once we see Trump's next filing. 

Didn't the judge specifically ask for an affidavit from Trump himself explaining the planted evidence?

If so, that doesn't seem enough to make him quit.

[Pato del Muerto 52531]

20 minutes ago, Red Five said:

"Ok, the plan is, we claim the documents were planted there. Also, they were there looking for Hillary's emails. Also, they're all mine anyway. Hey where are you going?"

I need you to do one of those stop court thingies. 

[TwiceHorn 31510]

2 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Didn't the judge specifically ask for an affidavit from Trump himself explaining the planted evidence?

If so, that doesn't seem enough to make him quit.

Not like that, no.  But he indicated that if Trump was going to raise theories, like planted evidence, or declassification, he was going to have to support them with evidence by declaration/affidavit.

So the choice became put up or shut up.

[TexasHooch 5122]

I'm not sure I completely understand this.  So, the 11th says that the special master should give interim reports. But then Judge Cannon says "No.  Final report only"?  Who has the authority in this specific matter, the 11th or Cannon? 

Edit. Wait.  I don't think that's even it.  It actually looks like she's going back on HER original order following the 11th's ruling (which had nothing to do with that).

Someone explain this.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by TexasHooch

[Dahobbs 17626]

6 minutes ago, TexasHooch said:

I'm not sure I completely understand this.  So, the 11th says that the special master should give interim reports. But then Judge Cannon says "No.  Final report only"?  Who has the authority in this specific matter, the 11th or Cannon?

Saying that he is calling Cannon is a bit of an exaggeration. I think judge Dearie is calling out what he believes to be an inadvertent change to the original order. 

To be clear, here is what happened:

1) Cannon issues original Special Master Order, including requirement of interim reports;

2) 11th Circuit grants stay of Cannon's order as to the Classified marked documents

3) Cannon, in response to 11th Circuit order, moots the whole thing by striking the portions of her original order that the 11th Circuit indicated the government would likely win. However, in doing so, she also struck the portion of her order that included the requirement to issue interim reports. 

4) Judge Dearie issues request that Cannon consider reinstating the language on interim reports. 

Notably, unless I missed something, the 11th Circuit never said anything directly disapproving of interim reports. But it also didn't directly order that there be interim reports (because that issue wasn't before it). All judge Dearie is saying is that the change in the language as to interim reports wasn't necessary to address the 11th Circuit's concerns. And he believes that the issuing of interim reports is actually consistent with the 11th Circuit's ruling (I assume because the 11th Circuit recognized that this issue needs to be resolved quickly). So, judge Cannon has authority here. But the change likely wasn't intentional, but rather an unintended consequence of how she modified the order. 

[Pato del Muerto 52531]

Dearie: I want to write more reports, dammit, not fewer!

[Blotto 23560]

On 9/26/2022 at 1:34 AM, C-Man said:

He's been a fat fuck for a LOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGG time.

I cant tell for certain if the Biden image is shopped or not, but somebody should throw this up on Truth Social

[C-Man 27235]

Just now, Blotto said:

I cant tell for certain if the Biden image is shopped or not, but somebody should throw this up on Truth Social

The undershirt is a nice addition I hadn't noticed before now. Melania, Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal fucked this guy quite a few years AFTER this video was made.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33878]

5 minutes ago, C-Man said:

The undershirt is a nice addition I hadn't noticed before now. Melania, Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal fucked this guy quite a few years AFTER this video was made.

allegedly

[TwiceHorn 31510]

20 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Saying that he is calling Cannon is a bit of an exaggeration. I think judge Dearie is calling out what he believes to be an inadvertent change to the original order. 

To be clear, here is what happened:

1) Cannon issues original Special Master Order, including requirement of interim reports;

2) 11th Circuit grants stay of Cannon's order as to the Classified marked documents

3) Cannon, in response to 11th Circuit order, moots the whole thing by striking the portions of her original order that the 11th Circuit indicated the government would likely win. However, in doing so, she also struck the portion of her order that included the requirement to issue interim reports. 

4) Judge Dearie issues request that Cannon consider reinstating the language on interim reports. 

Notably, unless I missed something, the 11th Circuit never said anything directly disapproving of interim reports. But it also didn't directly order that there be interim reports (because that issue wasn't before it). All judge Dearie is saying is that the change in the language as to interim reports wasn't necessary to address the 11th Circuit's concerns. And he believes that the issuing of interim reports is actually consistent with the 11th Circuit's ruling (I assume because the 11th Circuit recognized that this issue needs to be resolved quickly). So, judge Cannon has authority here. But the change likely wasn't intentional, but rather an unintended consequence of how she modified the order. 

Appears to be exactly correct.

Her second order struck most of paragraph/section 5, dealing with classified materials, and all of par/sec 6, which called for interim reports and to prioritize the classified material.  https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/64911367/91/trump-v-united-states/

[Tuco 5076]

Seems like she is not very good at being a judge. Politics and appointments aside, she’s just not very detail oriented.

[chainsaw 9872]

2 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Seems like she is not very good at being a judge. Politics and appointments aside, she’s just not very detail oriented.

maybe it's a rogue intern

[TwiceHorn 31510]

26 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

maybe it's a rogue intern

Clerks do a fair amount of judge work, yes, and sometimes they fuck things up that a judge might not.

But amending the order was probably not a clerk task.  Might have been, but strikes me as unlikely.

Maybe Cannon couldn't see well through her tears at being chastened by the court of appeals. 😬😬

[tx 3 putt 77166]

 

 

[The Dog 44067]

 

[Francisco 2.0 32395]

 

 

[Gil Bang 25980]

"By ECF and Courtesy Copy"

 

What does that mean?  

"Electronic Case File" maybe? 

 

[TwiceHorn 31510]

29 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

"By ECF and Courtesy Copy"

 

What does that mean?  

"Electronic Case File" maybe? 

 

Some background.

When a lawyer in a litigation files a paper, a motion, or response to motion, or whatever, the rules require you to serve your opponent(s) and the other parties to the case with a copy of that paper, and you must conclude your paper with a "certificate of service" to that effect:  A copy of the foregoing Motion To Set the Record Straight was served by facsimile transmission and first class mail to Plaintiff  . . . .

Well now that most filings are done electronically, the filing system (in federal courts it is known as ECF) takes care of serving the other parties by notifying them of the filing of a paper by email, etc.  Some rules may still require that you serve a copy outside the filing system, by mail, email, whatever, in case it glitches.  So, to a certain extent, the "ECF" obviates the need for other service or the certificate of service, but most lawyers still include one, even if it just says "served by ECF."

That letter was filed with Judge Dearie by the ECF system, and the ECF system then would have sent copies to all parties, who would have received email notification.  But they also sent a copy by email, presumably, to Trump's lawyers.    Some judges don't really like letters because they aren't governed by the rules of, for example: Motion, opponent has 20 days to Respond to the Motion, movant has 7 days to Reply to the Response.  And that means there's not just three documents on the matter (Motion, Response, Reply) and there's no timeframe for response and it can just get shitty and out of order real quick.

Edited September 28, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Degenerate Gardner 4085]

1 hour ago, The Dog said:

 

I can fap to it

[henrygandorf 29194]

1 hour ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

 

so since they wanted to go this way, but not actually participate in the process, doesn't this pretty much confirm that it was (once again) just a stall tactic? 

and how is this handled if he never actually does his part?  or as it was earlier stated, if no 3rd party vendor agrees to provide portal service to his nonsense?  at what point can the doj file a "enough is enough" motion?

[TwiceHorn 31510]

48 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

so since they wanted to go this way, but not actually participate in the process, doesn't this pretty much confirm that it was (once again) just a stall tactic? 

and how is this handled if he never actually does his part?  or as it was earlier stated, if no 3rd party vendor agrees to provide portal service to his nonsense?  at what point can the doj file a "enough is enough" motion?

I can't find a Trump letter or motion or any other document making objections to anything, so it's hard to tell what the gubmint is responding to there.

It may have been things said at the hearing.

I did find, though, that none of the vendors agreed to contract with Trump.  Accordingly, the government will be the contracting party and Trump will be ordered to pay the vendor's invoices.  So that's how that gets resolved.

Basically, if it's court you can count on Trump to be dilatory at any opportunity.

The thing is, though, most civil court proceedings take place away from the courtroom and largely out of the sight and supervision of the judge.  So it's really easy to futz around and be disingenuous until the other side gets fed up and makes a motion to try to get you to "behave."  Then you say you'll behave and promptly don't, futz around some more until the other side files a motion to take you back to court.  Rinse/Repeat until you get the Alex Jones default, if you go that far.  Then, if you're Trump, you settle.

This, on the other hand, is HIGHLY interactive with Dearie and taking place on a short time frame, so Trump is not going to get away with futzing around like usual.  He's gonna try, but he's going to get called on it early and often.

The law's against him, the facts are against him, this judge ain't standing for his usual bullshit.  So, Trump's going to get himself some delay.  He also seemingly is going to get legally and every other way pantsed and embarrassed.

Edited September 28, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[4th&Five 41567]