A story about a pathetic man's downfall [34 Felony Convictions]

[Gatorubet 30,050]

1 hour ago, hookemATL said:

Quoted for horseshit. 

Poppy Bush and his “Willie Horton hears a….white woman” ad says “hi”

[Gatorubet 30,050]

39 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Guys, it sounds like we got Wood!

Dammit! Spit coffee. 

[Ghost of LL 15,347]

59 minutes ago, wood said:

Hello everyone. My name is wood, and I'm a Recovering Republican.

Did I do that right? And yeah, that bold bit above is exactly how I view it. I've always wanted to vote for what's best for the country, not what's best for me. IMHO far too many people vote strictly for their own self interest. 

[Eskimohorn 5,610]

:dumbquestionamnesty:, por favor.
Just curious ... I looked but didn't see one, & I don't frequent this board. Is there a thread for formerly Republican-leaning people who were driven away from the party by this pathetic man and others like him, and now vote Democrat just to combat the extremism? 
Seems like there are a fair number of us out here.

You’ll find it next to another leaflet, “Famous Jewish Sports Legends”

[Gatorubet 30,050]

9 hours ago, Walser said:

I was definitely out once Trump came around, but I had been getting disillusioned by the Republican party for a while. The hypocrisy. Do they even have a statement of values...a platform any more?

What I really can't stand are "the ends justify the means" Christians. I was raised in a conservative Christian family. I don't know if I have any faith left, but I admire the teachings of Jesus regardless. Like, the actual teachings. I don't know what the fuck book some of these "Christians" have been reading.

Sorry for the rant. I'm all hopped up on meds for my back and still can't sleep.

Well, you and Thomas Jefferson have the same view.  He edited the Bible and took out all references to any divine or supernatural events, and just included the philosophy of Jesus. Which he soundly approved of as having "the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man”.   they still sell the Jefferson Bible lots of places.

Jefferson described many biblical passages as "so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture", and Revelation as "merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.”

Edited December 28, 2022 by Gatorubet

[DDD Dad 14,146]

12 hours ago, wood said:

:dumbquestionamnesty:, por favor.

Just curious ... I looked but didn't see one, & I don't frequent this board. Is there a thread for formerly Republican-leaning people who were driven away from the party by this pathetic man and others like him, and now vote Democrat just to combat the extremism? 

Seems like there are a fair number of us out here.

Dammit @Ghost of LL

Edited December 28, 2022 by DDD Dad

[Gatorubet 30,050]

1 hour ago, wood said:

Maybe a huge opportunity for the Libs?

Know how I know that you were not a converted conservative?

[Blotto 23,415]

4 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Please provide examples or left extremism 

let me guess. George Floyd riots? And…protesting Supreme Court justices? 
 

Any mass shootings? Attacks on members of Congress? Plots to overthrow government? Attacks on power infrastructure? 

Oh fuck off, libtard. 

HE

WORE

A

TAN

SUIT.

 

 

TAN!

[wood 11,102]

16 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Know how I know that you were not a converted conservative?

Wut? It was just a question. I'm not advocating for the Libertarian Party, if that's what you meant. I've never voted Libertarian, and until 2020, it was exceedingly rare for me to vote Dem.

Edited December 28, 2022 by wood

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,815]

8 hours ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

I would guess most posters in CR at one time or another have voted for a Republican candidate and it's probably those posters that give me the most hope for the future in that it demonstrates people can and do change. 

10 hours ago, Walser said:

I was definitely out once Trump came around, but I had been getting disillusioned by the Republican party for a while. The hypocrisy. Do they even have a statement of values...a platform any more?

What I really can't stand are "the ends justify the means" Christians. I was raised in a conservative Christian family. I don't know if I have any faith left, but I admire the teachings of Jesus regardless. Like, the actual teachings. I don't know what the fuck book some of these "Christians" have been reading.

Sorry for the rant. I'm all hopped up on meds for my back and still can't sleep.

weed/cbd is your friend

5 hours ago, Lurch said:

 

Bullshit. ONE SIDE owns this.

And I say that as one who voted straight party R until 2016.

 

yuuuuup

2 hours ago, wood said:

Maybe a huge opportunity for the Libs?

25 minutes ago, wood said:

Wut? It was just a question. I'm not advocating for the Libertarian Party, if that's what you meant. I've never voted Libertarian, and until 2020, it was exceedingly rare for me to vote Dem.

maybe try striking terms like "Lib" from your vocab. very few in here would self-identify as a "Lib" and when you throw pejoratives like that around it makes you sound misinformed and are an easy target. I'm pretty fucking liberal and support pretty much every progressive platform out there, as long as there is a way to pay for it. but that's a subject for another time. My first ever vote was GWB and it didn't take me long to figure out what a horrible mistake that was. Doesn't mean I abandoned every tenet the then R party espoused, it just meant I looked at the candidate instead of the party designation. if party designation was not revealed until the elections were over there would never be another R elected ever, which would be pretty fucking awesome now that I think about it.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Longhorn_Fan68

[Chult86 335]

I voted for Trump in 2016. I was much younger and more naive (i.e. stupid) than I am now, BUT, in my defense, I understood our government to have many systems of checks and balances where he couldn't really do anything too bad. I was not a Hilary fan at all, had she just somewhat tried to be more likable... wow what a different place this world would be now.

 

HOWEVER, it did not take me long at all to realize the error in my judgment, and those systems that were designed to protect any one person from trying to nosedive the country into the ground completely, 100% failed. I did not foresee that the two parties would become so polarized, that 1,000 things that Trump did over the next four years would have immediately disqualified anyone else from public office in our past. A tan suit used to be the worst thing a president could do... now he could openly brag about sexual assault, sleep with a porn star while his wife was pregnant (and then pay her off and get caught), and the GOP said... nothing. Crickets. No big deal, as long as their brand was behind the resolute desk. This doesn't even begin to go into the repulsiveness of what the GOP has become since 2016 in and of itself. A party of bigotry, hatred, and zero policy advancement other than "If the democrats like it, then we must hate it and vote against it". 

 

At this point, imagining voting for anything Republican only makes me chuckle to myself. Also, because of the absolute horridness of the GOP platform in the last six years, I am MUCH more active in discussing policy and politics with friends and family, and vote in local elections as well as midterms.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Chult86

[tchookem 3,900]

All of this. As I told my wife (no pics) and boys (no pics, nttawwt) during this election cycle, I voted Republican for a long time because I agreed with enough of what they were saying compared to what the Dems were saying that I c ould overlook a lot of the bullshit. I'm not religious, but much like you, I have always respected basic right and wrong. I was able to ignore the religious ties and the crazy for a long time, but they just become too overwhelming.  The recent trend toward extremism, racism, violence, hate-speech, and the overwhelming marriage of the party to the religious far-right, etc, pushed me over the edge.

Wait until you realize it's been there all along. For me, the key has been to not be too hard on myself and remember that life is always about doing better next time.

[hookemATL 11,593]

26 minutes ago, Chult86 said:

… had she just somewhat tried to be more likable... wow what a different place this world would be now.

 

what the GOP has become since 2016 in and of itself. 

1.  BUTTER E-MAILS!#!#

 

2. Supreme disingenuous horseshit, as mentioned previously.  

[cactusflinthead 27,593]

4 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Going back a few pages, and whether Trump is the worst or just the culmination of things set in motion by Reagan or Nixon, and thinking about comments about former Republicans in this thread, got me to thinking.  The thing that gets me about Trump the most is that whatever brought us to Trump as President, it was definitely Trump that gave us MTG, Boebert, Kari Lake, Qanon, etc. and I don’t think other Republican candidates would have done that. That rise of idiots was 100% Trump.

Counterpoint 

Newt, Gohmert, DeLay, Virginia Fox and Dr. No 

Atwater was dead and gone long before Trump.

This tree of  hate was planted a long time ago. If this harvest of shame is only noticeable now you weren't paying attention or ignored it.

Newt has more to blame for the current crop of idiots than Trump. 

 

 

 

[Hornius Emeritus 12,400]

6 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Please provide examples or left extremism 

let me guess. George Floyd riots? And…protesting Supreme Court justices? 
 

Any mass shootings? Attacks on members of Congress? Plots to overthrow government? Attacks on power infrastructure? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_baseball_shooting







 

[hookemATL 11,593]

Did the rest of your list not load?  Oh wait…

[Beau Vine 53,949]

45 minutes ago, Chult86 said:

I voted for Trump in 2016. I was much younger and more naive (i.e. stupid) than I am now, BUT, in my defense, I understood our government to have many systems of checks and balances where he couldn't really do anything too bad.

I can top this.  I was sure that Trump wouldn't last a year as President, because he would be impeached... by the Republicans, because they'd want to replace him with a "real Republican."  I was dumn and stupidl.

[Neonmoon 38,127]

1 hour ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_baseball_shooting







 

Okay one. 

[RomaVicta 29,744]

On 12/28/2022 at 2:00 PM, Chult86 said:

I was not a Hilary fan at all, had she just somewhat tried to be more likable... wow what a different place this world would be now.

Two things.

First, Hillary Clinton actually is likeable according many people who have worked with her in government. She's not a great politician. I think her rightful career would have been soaring to the top in non-elective positions. 

Her public likeability was under constant assault by a campaign of lies and ridicule from the day she became an assertive wife of a president.  They had to add an overdrive for the hate engine to keep up with the flood of vitriol constantly voiced about her. 

Second, consider the above and what the criminal fascist organization that claims to be a political party would have been willing to do to damage the country so they could  blame Clinton. Hillary Clinton would not have shaken the foundations of the republic and then ordered a physical assault on the Capitol, but the GOP insurgency to make her look like the devil so their own stinking wickedness would seem more palatable would have.

It was going to be a shitshow no matter who won. Had she won and the GOP had got the hate engine in full gear, they might be hegemon today. They'd be further eroding the republic while the scattered Dems slept through the raucous cheering of the Deplorables.

Oddly, history may show that Trump interfered with and sidetracked the cancerous spread of GOP power. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by RomaVicta
That sentence after Second was a mess. Jeez, it was still an incomplete sentence after the first fix.

[Gatorubet 30,050]

1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

Okay one. 

 The more you know, Scalise, the less badly you feel about his being shot. 

I’d prefer that he be shot after a fair trial. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,700]

1 hour ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_baseball_shooting

Now list everything any politician on the left ever did or said in a speech, rally, or campaign ad that might have been interpreted by the shooter as an incitement to commit a violent act. Also list every instance of them excusing, justifying, dismissing, or making jokes about the shooting.

Edited December 28, 2022 by WhatTheBuck

[Gatorubet 30,050]

28 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Oddly, history may show that Trump interfered with and sidetracked the cancerous spread of GOP power. 

It may be that at this crucial juncture, the stain of Trump on the GOP and the GOP’s embrace of a roster of hateful, unqualified, immature, brain-dead politicians (who all gained a leg up in party acceptance due to the GOP contemporaneously demanding acceptance of a Trump with all of those qualities) was the thing that caused enough independents and young people to vote that we avoided the hellscape of a voter suppressed GOP future.

It may have been that close to the GOP eliminating fair elections in America.   I have been hoping for sometime that enough old people die, and more young people start voting, that the worst of the GOP agenda will be impossible to enact.   We will see. 

I hope that Trump becomes an embarrassing footnote in American history, with his legacy being the destruction of the GOP as a majority party in America.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Gatorubet

[Fudge Nuggets 19,117]

3 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

maybe try striking terms like "Lib" from your vocab. very few in here would self-identify as a "Lib" and when you throw pejoratives like that around it makes you sound misinformed and are an easy target.

Not all of you can be one of the cool kids.

Try harder.  Actually, don't.  It's unbecoming.

[Ghost of LL 15,347]

2 hours ago, hookemATL said:

1.  BUTTER E-MAILS!#!#

 

2. Supreme disingenuous horseshit, as mentioned previously.  

I genuinely don't understand this nativist streak that flows through a lot of Democrats on this board and elsewhere (Post, Twitter, what have you).  According to some of y'all, if you weren't born a card-carrying Democrat, then fuck you!  It's as though some Democrats can't ever forgive a past error of judgment.

I'm just happy when someone agrees with me today.  If a person happened to disagree with me six years ago, the fact that they don't disagree with me today speaks to (1) my persuasiveness, and/or (2) their wise introspection and realization of their error.  Either way, I'm pretty fucking happy.

The very last fucking thing I'm ever going to do is shout a them "Fuck you--you were awful six years ago and you suck!"  And yet that seems to be what so many Democrats are bound and determined to do.  It's not just bizarre and puzzling; it's counterproductive.

And when we're talking about the fate of the Republic, Democrats, and the country, don't have the luxury of being counterproductive.

So yeah, @Chult86--you may have been fashionably late, but you get a

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

I can top this.  I was sure that Trump wouldn't last a year as President, because he would be impeached... by the Republicans, because they'd want to replace him with a "real Republican."  I was dumn and stupidl.

If you were to go back and do the digital archeology from the former site, I think you'd see you weren't alone in this thought.  There was some self-denial and some real wishcasting among the Never-Trumpers about how they were going to get their party back.  I'll admit to engaging in some of this.  I had the same thought before I decided to vote for Hilary, and I'm certain we discussed it on the previous board.

[hookemATL 11,593]

Those were two horseshit talking points that misconstrue and minimize, Hence my post. I’m happy that more people are coming to the side of facts and decency. Nothing “nativist” about it. 

[Neonmoon 38,127]

1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

First, Hillary Clinton actually is likeable according many people who have worked with her in government.

If you have to explain the joke, it’s not funny. Same principle here. 

[RomaVicta 29,744]

2 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

If you have to explain the joke, it’s not funny. Same principle here. 

[cactusflinthead 27,593]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

nativist streak that flows through a lot of Democrats on this board

Hi.

It's not that it was 20 years ago or 50 or 6. It's that Newt was ok. DeLay was ok. Reagan was great. 

I'm glad that Trump's existence caused the scales to fall off the eyes, but that's what it took. Not the ratfucking of Iran Contra. Not Atwater. Not Willie Horton. The jingoism of The Gipper was just fine. 

So yeah I am glad you saw the light. But goddamn it took someone saying the quiet part really fucking loud to get y'all's attention. 

I have to admit that I half expect more than a few lapsed Rs to go right back to voting for quietly hateful people just as soon as that orange fucker is no longer a threat in the primaries. 

[Bama Chick 28,596]

I voted for Trump in 2016. I was much younger and more naive (i.e. stupid) than I am now, BUT, in my defense, I understood our government to have many systems of checks and balances where he couldn't really do anything too bad. I was not a Hilary fan at all, had she just somewhat tried to be more likable... wow what a different place this world would be now.
 
HOWEVER, it did not take me long at all to realize the error in my judgment, and those systems that were designed to protect any one person from trying to nosedive the country into the ground completely, 100% failed. I did not foresee that the two parties would become so polarized, that 1,000 things that Trump did over the next four years would have immediately disqualified anyone else from public office in our past. A tan suit used to be the worst thing a president could do... now he could openly brag about sexual assault, sleep with a porn star while his wife was pregnant (and then pay her off and get caught), and the GOP said... nothing. Crickets. No big deal, as long as their brand was behind the resolute desk. This doesn't even begin to go into the repulsiveness of what the GOP has become since 2016 in and of itself. A party of bigotry, hatred, and zero policy advancement other than "If the democrats like it, then we must hate it and vote against it". 
 
At this point, imagining voting for anything Republican only makes me chuckle to myself. Also, because of the absolute horridness of the GOP platform in the last six years, I am MUCH more active in discussing policy and politics with friends and family, and vote in local elections as well as midterms.

“Had she tried to be just somewhat more likable”



In 2015/2016, you watched Trump parade down an escalator and proclaim Mexico was sending rapists and criminals, make dick jokes on a debate stage, claim - correctly - he could shoot someone and it wouldn’t matter, heard him brag about grabbing women by the pussy, mock a disabled reporter, trash a Gold Star Military family, and denigrate an actual American hero in John McCain.

Yet it was Hillary Clinton who was just too unlikable.

Misogyny is a hell of a thing.

[Ghost of LL 15,347]

1 hour ago, hookemATL said:

Those were two horseshit talking points that misconstrue and minimize, Hence my post. I’m happy that more people are coming to the side of facts and decency. Nothing “nativist” about it. 

Well, let's square the circle a bit, shall we?

1) Hillary was "unlikeable" v. #butterymales: I think we ought to agree on a few things here.  First, Hillary Clinton was "unlikeable" to a majority of the electorate, based on repeated polls.  Second, her "unlikability" is largely a product of a quarter-century smear campaign run by Republicans and their friends in talk radio and Fox News, which was fueled by bullshit and misogyny.  Third, the email story played right into some of the narratives of that smear campaign--that Hillary was corrupt; she was secretive; she couldn't be trusted.

And then let's add in that her campaign did a poor job of addressing the issue.  And let's further add in that Jim Comey fucked her and America by going against FBI guidance and having a press conference reopening an investigation against her ten days before the election.

Put that all together, and I think it's fair to say that she was "unlikeable," but she was "unlikeable" in large part due to bullshit and misogyny, and that someone probably ought to avoid characterizing her as "unlikeable" lest he/she be charged with being a dupe.

By the way--as a dupe of Republican bullshit for a large part of my adult life, I don't think that's an overly harsh characterization.

2) "What the GOP has become since 2016" v. "horseshit:"  Again, I think we can agree on a few things.  First, there has been a wild shift in the Republican Party since 2015/16.  I just don't think that's even arguable.  And I don't know how you can argue it when you're talking to and about people who have left the party because of that shift.

But second, that shift was the continuation of trends in the party that go back to at least 1992 (Pat Buchanan's demagogic populist campaign) and probably back to 1968 (Nixon's Southern Strategy).  Those trends accelerated in 2015, but let's not pretend that the GOP didn't tolerate and even encourage a whole lot of racism and anti-democratic tendencies before then.

But third, the pre-2015 GOP did a really good job with educated white people of hiding its racism.  So if you were a person who favored low taxes and less government regulation, the GOP's underbelly could be overlooked.  It was, after all, and under-belly.  As I have said, I thought the Republican Party was a conservative party with a small racist fringe; 2016 revealed that it was (and was all along) a racist party with a small conservative fringe.

And here we go back to the "dupe" thing.

If your point is "you should've known better," then yeah--I agree.  @Chult86 seems to agree.  But let's also not pretend that there weren't good reasons why one would not know better.

And some of those reasons even lie at the feet of the Democratic Party (e.g., Hillary Clinton was a weak candidate).

Edited December 29, 2022 by Ghost of LL

[Ghost of LL 15,347]

13 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Not the ratfucking of Iran Contra. Not Atwater. Not Willie Horton. The jingoism of The Gipper was just fine. 

[YGIFS 19,449]

Jesus ducking Christ; the Willie Horton ad?  That’s the original sin?  Y’all wanna win elections going forward with never Trumpers or you wanna whine about Falwell?  There’s a coalition to be had here that’s unbreakable until demography Carries the day.  Or yes, Gerald Ford wasn’t pro-gay enough.  Pick your fucking battles. We can bury stupid, corrupt, and anti-American forever or you can bring up old shit and vilify millions who would gladly side with you if you’d only stop being so goddamn fucking snooty.  Millions upon millions of voters just waiting to be enjoined.  

[TwiceHorn 31,169]

Just now, YGIFS said:

Jesus ducking Christ; the Willie Horton ad?  That’s the original sin?  Y’all wanna win elections going forward with never Trumpers or you wanna whine about Falwell?  There’s a coalition to be had here that’s unbreakable until demography Carries the day.  Or yes, Gerald Ford wasn’t pro-gay enough.  Pick your fucking battles. We can bury stupid, corrupt, and anti-American forever or you can bring up old shit and vilify millions who would gladly side with you if you’d only stop being so goddamn fucking snooty.  Millions upon millions of voters just waiting to be enjoined.  

I thought the Horton ad was distasteful, if not straight up racist.  I also thought it was kind of par for the course pandering using an anecdote.  Even back then i thought our CJ system was FUBAR, and not quite in the ways I see it today, but I also saw the "tough on crime" as pandering of some of the worst sort and that's how I viewed the Horton ad.

Atwater came up with the thing and conceded prior to his death that it was racist and intended that way, so i am not arguing that it wasn't.  But it certainly didn't appeal to any latent racist streak I had or still have to one degree or another.

[cactusflinthead 27,593]

Just now, Ghost of LL said:

First vote? Mine was 86. 

Oh the days when a woman sitting on your lap was enough to doom a campaign. 

I was a kid in 1980 too, but it didn't take much to figure out Reagan was behind the delay in getting the hostages released. Or his minions were. That alone was enough to sour me on Rs for the rest of my life.

[YGIFS 19,449]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I thought the Horton ad was distasteful, if not straight up racist.  I also thought it was kind of par for the course pandering using an anecdote.  Even back then i thought our CJ system was FUBAR, and not quite in the ways I see it today, but I also saw the "tough on crime" as pandering of some of the worst sort and that's how I viewed the Horton ad.

Atwater came up with the thing and conceded prior to his death that it was racist and intended that way, so i am not arguing that it wasn't.  But it certainly didn't appeal to any latent racist streak I had or still have to one degree or another.

Older White people were somewhat racist?  Pacinovoice/ I am over fucking whelmed.  I was 12 and Mexican.  Forgive me for not giving more of a shit

[Lurch 5,919]

The Left doesn’t owe dick to Never Trump Republicans and sure as fuck doesn’t need to pander to them for votes.

If you chose to vote for the fascists because you weren’t given a parade for figuring out that the GOP was a cult, that’s on you.

[cactusflinthead 27,593]

Hey, like I said I am glad you saw the light. That's great. But, I don't have to forget the shit that got us here. Trump didn't spontaneously generate. It took years of feeding hate to get to the point Jeb! wasn't gonna get it. They had to have the uncut undiluted hate. 

Rick was all good with Rubio until he saw that's the end of his meal ticket and thus Never Trump was born. But, I have no illusions that he is my strange bedfellow in an effort to wrench back the country from the shitheads.

[hookemATL 11,593]

The wool was pulled over no one’s eyes. The hate machine is/was operated and maintained by one political party and has been for decades upon decades. You can go on and on about how now is the time to move on, and with some respects I agree with you. But some of the posts here belie an ignorance or hope to gloss over the governmental malpractice tolerated and pushed by Republican leaders. 
 

I am not vilifying anyone, and folks should be at least recognized if they are willing to reckon with past choices that have proven to be “ill-advised” (i.e. voting for a conman, reality show host, foreign government compromised, rapist piece of shit that led an attack on the seat of government). Really it’s all we can do after the orange cunt brought out the absolute worst in some people. So yes please vote Dem even if it gives you spontaneous rectal bleeding, because the other choice is a vote for a treasonous cadre of ghouls and out of touch fuckmuppets. 

[YGIFS 19,449]

Some of us never voted for him from the word go.  Because i pulled a R primary ballot for GLO In 2014 and my grand uncle worked for Gerald Ford; we’re the anti-progressive evil entity?  I bundled almost $200k for Biden in 2020 Texas.  Fuck you judgmental pricks.  

[Ghost of LL 15,347]

14 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

First vote? Mine was 86. 

Oh the days when a woman sitting on your lap was enough to doom a campaign. 

I was a kid in 1980 too, but it didn't take much to figure out Reagan was behind the delay in getting the hostages released. Or his minions were. That alone was enough to sour me on Rs for the rest of my life.

My first vote was in the 1994 Midterms.  So yeah--Willie Horton?  I was in 8th grade.

8 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Hey, like I said I am glad you saw the light. That's great. But, I don't have to forget the shit that got us here. Trump didn't spontaneously generate. It took years of feeding hate to get to the point Jeb! wasn't gonna get it. They had to have the uncut undiluted hate. 

Rick was all good with Rubio until he saw that's the end of his meal ticket and thus Never Trump was born. But, I have no illusions that he is my strange bedfellow in an effort to wrench back the country from the shitheads.

I'm not asking you to forget anything.

I'm just suggesting that being an asshole to people who want to on your side isn't a great electoral strategy.

Jesus--I really don't understand what's so fucking hard about this.

[hookemATL 11,593]

Is this not surly? land of assholes? Are we not in the trust tree?  

 

[Ghost of LL 15,347]

13 minutes ago, hookemATL said:

Is this not surly? land of assholes? Are we not in the trust tree?  

 

I mean, yeah.  But isn't this also the Cloak Room, where we exchange political ideas?  And what's the point of exchanging political ideas if not to persuade?

[hookemATL 11,593]

Which is what is happening yes?  No negs have been exchanged, just some back and forth. At least we have people here willing to actually post their genuine thoughts and feelings. I respect the shit out of that, just think that a lot of Republican political ideas are hot trash. Nuttin more, nuttin less. 

[cactusflinthead 27,593]

16 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

I'm just suggesting that being an asshole to people who want to on your side isn't a great electoral strategy.

I've tried to get along. I recognize that meeting people with a handshake is better than a middle finger.

I'll listen to what Rick Wilson has to say and buy his book. He's a politically savvy person. It would be stupid not to.  But, I can't deny that I don't really trust him either. 

I can get on here and poke you and Brisket with a goad. Out there among the masses I keep it quiet. There's no reason to make an enemy you didn't have.

Again, I'm glad all y'all are willing to vote for Biden or whoever. It would have been cooler if it had happened sooner, but better late than never.

[Brisketexan 104,425]

I've tried to get along. I recognize that meeting people with a handshake is better than a middle finger.
I'll listen to what Rick Wilson has to say and buy his book. He's a politically savvy person. It would be stupid not to.  But, I can't deny that I don't really trust him either. 
I can get on here and poke you and Brisket with a goad. Out there among the masses I keep it quiet. There's no reason to make an enemy you didn't have.
Again, I'm glad all y'all are willing to vote for Biden or whoever. It would have been cooler if it had happened sooner, but better late than never.

Well, you’re missing something else about the shifts of many of us “former Republican voters.” It’s not JUST that we’ve realized that the party/movement is a racist, xenophobic, anti-American hateful fascist movement (although that is plenty). We’ve also concluded that many “conservative” positions themselves are shite.
For example, “trickle down” economics. The concept had some attraction and logic to it. But we’ve now seen it tried repeatedly, a miserable failure each time. Buying into a hypothesis, or not, is one thing - understandable either way. But when the hypothesis is tested, and fails, it’s important to acknowledge that and learn.
Universal health care - I bet most of us former repub voters are in favor of it to some extent or another.
Remember how public opinion was against same sex marriage 25 years ago? I was in that group, at least kinda (I had the silly position that “yes, everyone should have full access to the bundle of rights via a civil union, but don’t call it “marriage.’”). Now, again, most all of us unreservedly support it.
I’m a smart guy. But I’ve bought into some stupid shit over the years (hell, I thought Charlie Strong would work out to be a good hire). I’m embarrassed by that. I’d be more embarrassed if I hadn’t learned and evolved, though.

[Neonmoon 38,127]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

Well, let's square the circle a bit, shall we?

1) Hillary was "unlikeable" v. #butterymales: I think we ought to agree on a few things here.  First, Hillary Clinton was "unlikeable" to a majority of the electorate, based on repeated polls.  Second, her "unlikability" is largely a product of a quarter-century smear campaign run by Republicans and their friends in talk radio and Fox News, which was fueled by bullshit and misogyny.  Third, the email story played right into some of the narratives of that smear campaign--that Hillary was corrupt; she was secretive; she couldn't be trusted.

And then let's add in that her campaign did a poor job of addressing the issue.  And let's further add in that Jim Comey fucked her and America by going against FBI guidance and having a press conference reopening an investigation against her ten days before the election.

Put that all together, and I think it's fair to say that she was "unlikeable," but she was "unlikeable" in large part due to bullshit and misogyny, and that someone probably ought to avoid characterizing her as "unlikeable" lest he/she be charged with being a dupe.

By the way--as a dupe of Republican bullshit for a large part of my adult life, I don't think that's an overly harsh characterization.

2) "What the GOP has become since 2016" v. "horseshit:"  Again, I think we can agree on a few things.  First, there has been a wild shift in the Republican Party since 2015/16.  I just don't think that's even arguable.  And I don't know how you can argue it when you're talking to and about people who have left the party because of that shift.

But second, that shift was the continuation of trends in the party that go back to at least 1992 (Pat Buchanan's demagogic populist campaign) and probably back to 1968 (Nixon's Southern Strategy).  Those trends accelerated in 2015, but let's not pretend that the GOP didn't tolerate and even encourage a whole lot of racism and anti-democratic tendencies before then.

But third, the pre-2015 GOP did a really good job with educated white people of hiding its racism.  So if you were a person who favored low taxes and less government regulation, the GOP's underbelly could be overlooked.  It was, after all, and under-belly.  As I have said, I thought the Republican Party was a conservative party with a small racist fringe; 2016 revealed that it was (and was all along) a racist party with a small conservative fringe.

And here we go back to the "dupe" thing.

If your point is "you should've known better," then yeah--I agree.  @Chult86 seems to agree.  But let's also not pretend that there weren't good reasons why one would not know better.

And some of those reasons even lie at the feet of the Democratic Party (e.g., Hillary Clinton was a weak candidate).

This post is amazing. I would also posit that the racist underbelly has always been there, it’s just a continuation of the southern scourge. Same culture, same values, some fucked up version of Jesus. 

[Js1 85,049]

57 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Some of us never voted for him from the word go.  Because i pulled a R primary ballot for GLO In 2014 and my grand uncle worked for Gerald Ford; we’re the anti-progressive evil entity?  I bundled almost $200k for Biden in 2020 Texas.  Fuck you judgmental pricks.  

Don’t lecture people, formerly registered Libertarian. THAT is embarrassing 

[Fudge Nuggets 19,117]

34 minutes ago, hookemATL said:

Which is what is happening yes?  No negs have been exchanged, just some back and forth. At least we have people here willing to actually post their genuine thoughts and feelings. I respect the shit out of that, just think that a lot of Republican political ideas are hot trash. Nuttin more, nuttin less. 

Negged just because, but POA repped two others to make up for it 

[WhatTheBuck 28,700]

I’d say that anyone who finds Donald Trump remotely likable has some serious character flaws. Criticizing Hillary for being unlikable is hardly a justification to vote for Trump. One thing Hillary is that Trump will never be is intelligent and qualified. I’ll take smart and capable over stupid and incompetent every time. Trump is a national embarrassment. 

[Js1 85,049]

3 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I’d say that anyone who finds Donald Trump remotely likable has some serious character flaws. Criticizing Hillary for being unlikable is hardly a justification to vote for Trump. One thing Hillary is that Trump will never be is intelligent and qualified. I’ll take smart and capable over stupid and incompetent every time. Trump is a national embarrassment. 

It’s so fucking dumb (and par for the course of our moronic electorate) that “likable” is so important. This person ain’t going to be my friend or my beer buddy. They’re going to run the country - they just need to be intelligent and competent. Idc if they’re “likable” - Nick Saban and Urban Meyer aren’t likable but they win championships. That’s what people want.