A story about a pathetic man's downfall [34 Felony Convictions]

[Chult86 335]

In hindsight, I consider myself in 2016 (late 20s, educated male) the typical voter who didn't follow politics much, just knew of the headlines I would see periodically. I grew up in a DEEP red household in Texas, but still didn't understand politics all that much. All I knew was that my family had always voted republican, and from what I saw on the news/online, Hilary seemed like a terrible person who had been handed everything (I remember she was given debate questions in advance, the Dems basically railroading Bernie and her winning the nomination, and yes... the reopening of the FBI investigation seemed like a much bigger deal at the time than it does now in hindsight). Trump offered something different (whether it be good or bad, it was at least going to be different), and as I said, I assumed that the checks and balances on executive power would actually function... not just be entirely ignored.

What should be more surprising, and concerning to the GOP, is that since 2016, I've been fortunate enough to have big changes in my career for the better. Despite making considerably more than I was back then, I've continued to move further and further away from their platform, to the point where I cannot see myself voting R at any point in the future. My wife, nor my son in all likelihood, will ever vote that way either.

I don't see how anyone can fault someone for admitting they were wrong in the past and learned from that mistake. Hell, the country and world as a whole would be a damn near utopia if that's how everyone was. Sadly, too many of us double and triple-down on these poor prior decisions simply because they are afraid of admitting they made a mistake.

[Bama Chick 28596]

….from what I saw on the news/online, Hilary seemed like a terrible person who had been handed everything (I remember she was given debate questions in advance, the Dems basically railroading Bernie and her winning the nomination, and yes... the reopening of the FBI investigation seemed like a much bigger deal at the time than it does now in hindsight).

If you still believe this, then you’ve still got some work to do.

[CTC2 2724]

9 minutes ago, Chult86 said:

In hindsight, I consider myself in 2016 (late 20s, educated male) the typical voter who didn't follow politics much, just knew of the headlines I would see periodically. I grew up in a DEEP red household in Texas, but still didn't understand politics all that much. All I knew was that my family had always voted republican, and from what I saw on the news/online, Hilary seemed like a terrible person who had been handed everything (I remember she was given debate questions in advance, the Dems basically railroading Bernie and her winning the nomination, and yes... the reopening of the FBI investigation seemed like a much bigger deal at the time than it does now in hindsight). Trump offered something different (whether it be good or bad, it was at least going to be different), and as I said, I assumed that the checks and balances on executive power would actually function... not just be entirely ignored.

What should be more surprising, and concerning to the GOP, is that since 2016, I've been fortunate enough to have big changes in my career for the better. Despite making considerably more than I was back then, I've continued to move further and further away from their platform, to the point where I cannot see myself voting R at any point in the future. My wife, nor my son in all likelihood, will ever vote that way either.

I don't see how anyone can fault someone for admitting they were wrong in the past and learned from that mistake. Hell, the country and world as a whole would be a damn near utopia if that's how everyone was. Sadly, too many of us double and triple-down on these poor prior decisions simply because they are afraid of admitting they made a mistake.

Good on you for evolving.
It’s funny though how people perceive things differently.  I looked at Trump in 2016 as a guy who should never get anywhere close to power and was just downright stupid. 
I didn’t like Clinton at all but I would have voted for just about anyone over Trump. I did believe Clinton was competent and qualified to be President. I hope Trump has dissuaded most people that just anyone can be President. 

[BearSchlong 8076]

And to be honest, I thought Hillary surrounded herself with inept advisors. Huma’s husband got taken down by someone I know that several of my friends were trying to fuck.

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/anthony-weiner-scandal-timeline-deceit/story?id=13781381

And Podesta didn’t seem to have a grasp on reality.

2016 was just abysmal. It should have been Biden all along.

[Chult86 335]

6 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 

If you still believe this, then you’ve still got some work to do.

 

Just because I made a bad decision six years ago doesn't change the fact that her campaign was AWFUL. Also, Bernie did get screwed, and she was given the debate questions in advance. Hilary did herself zero favors during that election cycle. As I said, in hindsight, her emails, while not a great judgment on her part, not even close to the overblown level it got to at that point in time.

[Js1 85049]

CAN WE STOP TALKING ABOUT HILLARY AND RELITIGATING THE 2016 PRIMARY

[hookemATL 11593]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

CAN WE STOP TALKING ABOUT HILLARY AND RELITIGATING THE 2016 PRIMARY

Edited December 29, 2022 by hookemATL
Remember when Gideon dropped that interception against Tech in ‘08?

[Bozo_Casanova 26218]

Hillary Clinton is a terrible politician who learned nothing from 2008. Elizabeth Warren and Claire McCaskill shouldn’t have stepped aside in 2016 and either of them  (or Biden) would have beat her, and then Trump, like a drum.

[wood 11102]

6 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

maybe try striking terms like "Lib" from your vocab. very few in here would self-identify as a "Lib" and when you throw pejoratives like that around it makes you sound misinformed and are an easy target.

I merely shortened the word Libertarian to save a few key strokes. I didn't use it in a pejorative context. Sorry you thought I meant liberals, but I wasn't saying anything bad about Liberals or Libertarians. Unlike many people, I can live in a world with varying political philosophies without denegrating the ones I don't ascribe to. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by wood

[Ghost of LL 15347]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, you’re missing something else about the shifts of many of us “former Republican voters.” It’s not JUST that we’ve realized that the party/movement is a racist, xenophobic, anti-American hateful fascist movement (although that is plenty). We’ve also concluded that many “conservative” positions themselves are shite.
For example, “trickle down” economics. The concept had some attraction and logic to it. But we’ve now seen it tried repeatedly, a miserable failure each time. Buying into a hypothesis, or not, is one thing - understandable either way. But when the hypothesis is tested, and fails, it’s important to acknowledge that and learn.
Universal health care - I bet most of us former repub voters are in favor of it to some extent or another.
Remember how public opinion was against same sex marriage 25 years ago? I was in that group, at least kinda (I had the silly position that “yes, everyone should have full access to the bundle of rights via a civil union, but don’t call it “marriage.’”). Now, again, most all of us unreservedly support it.
I’m a smart guy. But I’ve bought into some stupid shit over the years (hell, I thought Charlie Strong would work out to be a good hire). I’m embarrassed by that. I’d be more embarrassed if I hadn’t learned and evolved, though.

And let’s not underestimate the impact of the partisan goggles coming off.  There are a lot of Democratic policies that, when you’re not looking at them with a reflexive opposition, make quite a lot of sense.

[Brisketexan 104425]

I merely shortened the word Libertarian to save a few key strokes. I didn't use it in a pejorative context. Sorry you thought I meant liberals, but I wasn't saying anything bad about Liberals or Libertarians. Unlike many people, I can live in a world with varying political philosophies without denegrating the ones I don't ascribe to. 

I gotta tell ya….I’ve always hated people of the Nazi persuasion. Still do. Which influences my loathing of the modern GQP/racist fascist party.

[wood 11102]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, you’re missing something else about the shifts of many of us “former Republican voters.” It’s not JUST that we’ve realized that the party/movement is a racist, xenophobic, anti-American hateful fascist movement (although that is plenty). We’ve also concluded that many “conservative” positions themselves are shite.
For example, “trickle down” economics. The concept had some attraction and logic to it. But we’ve now seen it tried repeatedly, a miserable failure each time. Buying into a hypothesis, or not, is one thing - understandable either way. But when the hypothesis is tested, and fails, it’s important to acknowledge that and learn.
Universal health care - I bet most of us former repub voters are in favor of it to some extent or another.
Remember how public opinion was against same sex marriage 25 years ago? I was in that group, at least kinda (I had the silly position that “yes, everyone should have full access to the bundle of rights via a civil union, but don’t call it “marriage.’”). Now, again, most all of us unreservedly support it.
I’m a smart guy. But I’ve bought into some stupid shit over the years (hell, I thought Charlie Strong would work out to be a good hire). I’m embarrassed by that. I’d be more embarrassed if I hadn’t learned and evolved, though.

Great post. Appreciate your honesty, too. My experience has been much the same as yours in these respects.

[wood 11102]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I gotta tell ya….I’ve always hated people of the Nazi persuasion. Still do. Which influences my loathing of the modern GQP/racist fascist party.

Especially Illinois Nazis. I hate Illinois Nazis.

[atomheartbevo 89348]

25 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

And let’s not underestimate the impact of the partisan goggles coming off.  There are a lot of Democratic policies that, when you’re not looking at them with a reflexive opposition, make quite a lot of sense.

And even if they don't make the best of sense, they are a lot more attractive than the alternatives put forth by the Republicans these days (if they put forth anything at all).  We have way too many Republicans now who are just openly vowing that they'll oppose anything, and don't need to provide an alternative solution.

 

[atomheartbevo 89348]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Universal health care - I bet most of us former repub voters are in favor of it to some extent or another.

We kind of have it, it's just a matter of how it's paid for - if a poor person doesn't have healthcare, rather than see a doctor in a doctor's office for preventative care or in the early stages of an illness or a minor injury, they'll end up at the ER and use that as their doctor's office, and the rest of us end up paying for that.

[Neonmoon 38127]

11 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

We kind of have it, it's just a matter of how it's paid for - if a poor person doesn't have healthcare, rather than see a doctor in a doctor's office for preventative care or in the early stages of an illness or a minor injury, they'll end up at the ER and use that as their doctor's office, and the rest of us end up paying for that.

It would be cheaper with universal healthcare 

[TwiceHorn 31169]

4 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

Hey, like I said I am glad you saw the light. That's great. But, I don't have to forget the shit that got us here. Trump didn't spontaneously generate. It took years of feeding hate to get to the point Jeb! wasn't gonna get it. They had to have the uncut undiluted hate. 

Rick was all good with Rubio until he saw that's the end of his meal ticket and thus Never Trump was born. But, I have no illusions that he is my strange bedfellow in an effort to wrench back the country from the shitheads.

To be fair, though, a giant chunk of Trump supporters were not exactly GOP stalwarts.  The depravity of the GOP gave Trump a welcoming home, but Trump himself is sui generis.

[cactusflinthead 27593]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

To be fair, though, a giant chunk of Trump supporters were not exactly GOP stalwarts.  The depravity of the GOP gave Trump a welcoming home, but Trump himself is sui generis.

You trying to suck me back in while there's two decent games in progress?

I ain't got time to go find his approval ratings or the last polling. 

Yes, he is unique. Thank God for that. But, we just had a midterm in which his chosen candidate won the primary in multiple states. 

What is it going to take to drag the primary voter back or forward to the sensible candidate? There's a good chunk of R voters that demand a Kari Lake.

[Gatorubet 30050]

2 hours ago, wood said:

I merely shortened the word Libertarian to save a few key strokes. I didn't use it in a pejorative context. Sorry you thought I meant liberals, but I wasn't saying anything bad about Liberals or Libertarians. 

Cool.  But know you are very likely the first person in the history of the CR forum to use the word ‘Libs’ to refer to libertarians.  Hence the sort of universal WTF?

Edited December 29, 2022 by Gatorubet

[hookemATL 11593]

Aw fuck it thought it was for Libyans. God. Dammit. 

[GenXer 2776]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

We kind of have it, it's just a matter of how it's paid for - if a poor person doesn't have healthcare, rather than see a doctor in a doctor's office for preventative care or in the early stages of an illness or a minor injury, they'll end up at the ER and use that as their doctor's office, and the rest of us end up paying for that.

Cost of prescription drugs is still problematic. Republican politicians and their propaganda outlets have always vilified healthcare and cost reform. Cruz built his career on it and yet he still gets re-elected. 

I’m skeptical that the ex-republicans catalyzed by Trump will stick around once he is no longer around. Hope I’m wrong cause healthcare and prescription cost will continue to rise without government intervention.

 

[wood 11102]

1 hour ago, Gatorubet said:

Cool.  But know you are very likely the first person in the history of the CR forum to use the word ‘Libs’ to refer to libertarians.  Hence the sort of universal WTF?

Sure. I can accept that. Like I said before, I don't frequent this forum. And this is one reason why. It just seems like there's no need to get all pissy about one offhand question with an errant abbreviation when it's pretty obvious - when you look at my other posts in this thread - that I'm on what most of us would say is the good side of this thing. But ok, cool.

[Gatorubet 30050]

5 minutes ago, wood said:

 It just seems like there's no need to get all pissy about one offhand question with an errant abbreviation…

Sir, this is a Surly thread, NOT a Wendy’s!

 

[ChiTownDoc 21090]

2 hours ago, wood said:

Especially Illinois Nazis. I hate Illinois Nazis.

 

[staboner 4955]

1 hour ago, hookemATL said:

Aw fuck it thought it was for Libyans. God. Dammit. 

well, I thought it was for the Sybians

[Pods 7521]

1 hour ago, hookemATL said:

Aw fuck it thought it was for Libyans. God. Dammit. 

 

[cactusflinthead 27593]

3 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

And let’s not underestimate the impact of the partisan goggles coming off.  There are a lot of Democratic policies that, when you’re not looking at them with a reflexive opposition, make quite a lot of sense.

This is not something I read very often at TOS. 

Since tech has hobbled klan and with the last bit of consciousness remaining I want to extend the olive branch. 

I don't know what tomorrow brings. Not one of us thought we were in for the shitshow of Trump. Even I held a hope that he could somehow grow into the position. That reason and norms could prevail.

I was wrong. He is/was worse than I was capable of imagining. I couldn't conceive the depths of incompetence and hate he had in store. I didn't know how far down the Republicans were willing to go. The balrog waved as they passed by. 

He goes between golf courses he owns. Yet, somehow he still finds a hold on the minds of a deluded and bitterly angry voting group. 

They are not you. 

They can't express which policies appeal to them because he has no policy. He has a grudge. He wants to hurt someone. That's not leadership. It'll do for shit talk that registers in the lizard brain. Revenge for perceived threats. 

I don't know what or how to wean the Republicans off of it. McBryde died, but Pittman lives. They are the fruit of that tree of Thurmond and Atwater. 

I'm rambling and tired. 

Texas would rather have an AR-15 than legal weed. 

 

[Gatorubet 30050]

25 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

I don't know what or how to wean the Republicans off of it. McBryde died, but Pittman lives. They are the fruit of that tree of Thurmond

I'm rambling and tired.

I’m drunk and high

[cactusflinthead 27593]

1 minute ago, Gatorubet said:

I’m drunk and high

 

[Pods 7521]

29 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

I don't know what or how to wean the Republicans off of it. McBryde died, but Pittman lives. They are the fruit of that tree of Thurmond and Atwater. 

Defeat them at the polls. Defeat after defeat after defeat. We can never relent, they are irrational actors and can never again be entrusted with power.

Grind the Republican party into ashes and throw them onto the dustbin of history. 

GQP delenda est.

[Zepol87 9163]

It took trump for you to realize Republicans are POS assholes? Thought you people on here were smart

[Ted Lange 15988]

Yeah.  I’m happy some people are now former GOPers (like myself). But why they need coddling for their former bad decisions is super snowflakey.   The GOP sucks, if you need someone to be nice to you about that, and just don’t realize it,  well fuck your feelings.  

[Pods 7521]

44 minutes ago, Zepol87 said:

It took trump for you to realize Republicans are POS assholes? Thought you people on here were smart

It was Bush the Lesser for me. He sucked as governor and we'd have been better off if we kept Richards. He wasn't a serious person and wasn't serious about governing. When the Pubs picked him, it ripped the scales from my eyes and showed me they weren't serious about governing. 

Him fucking up Iraq and Afghanistan validated that decision. I considered myself independent until Palin, which slammed shut any possibility I'd vote anything but D. 

[Ted Lange 15988]

“Former” conservatives ditching the GOP after the Palins and Trumps wanting adulation 

[Ted Lange 15988]

Vote for whoever you want to vote for.  You have (I think) a conscious like the rest of us.  If you need LIBS to be nice to you to vote against Trump, that says way more about you.

[Ted Lange 15988]

 

[GW Hayduke 1950]

13 hours ago, Chult86 said:

Dems basically railroading Bernie and her winning the nomination

This isn’t true. Bernie lost a primary. It was simple.  Right wing propaganda and bernie bros on the lower end of the critical thinking spectrum pushed that false narrative.  I find it interesting to look back and see how similar it is to today’s big lie pushed by trump. 
 

I get that you may be influenced by right wing propaganda but ideally you would move past it.  

[Francisco 2.0 32290]

YEAH MOTHERFUCKERS!!!  I'M WINNING!!!   USA!!!

 

[Brisketexan 104425]

6 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

“Former” conservatives ditching the GOP after the Palins and Trumps wanting adulation 

Well, there has been a continuum. For some, W was the breaking point.  For others, Palin and the naked nativisim and racism exposed in the 2000 election (BTW, that was my pivot point -- My inclination to vote Repub had been waning, but that race, and Palin, racism, nativism, and birtherism....yeah, that demonstrated the party to be irredeemable, at least on a national level.  I still voted for a local Repub or two (mostly judicial candidates in the state, that sort of thing), but my strong turn away from the party really started in 2000, and only got more committed as time went on).

That said, some of us who had a view/memory from the inside also saw Trump the most clearly for what he was: 1) very likely to win, and 2) an existential threat to the Republic.  But, you know, chicken littles and cassandras and all that.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Brisketexan

[Red Five 40592]

Former president accusing the FBI of rigging a presidential election. Ho hum. 

"They probably did so because they knew I did nothing wrong". Yeah, probably. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21014]

16 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

YEAH MOTHERFUCKERS!!!  I'M WINNING!!!   USA!!!

 

It really, really pisses me off that this motherfucker will not get the FO he so justly deserves.

[Tuco 5076]

17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, there has been a continuum. For some, W was the breaking point.  For others, Palin and the naked nativisim and racism exposed in the 2000 election ...

2000 or 2008.  For all W's faults, I don't recall him hitting the racism/nativism button more than your average Republican.  Sure, after 9/11, the Republicans led the way on anti-Muslim/anti-foreign/anti-brown.  But W won the Muslim vote in 2000.  

I saw 2008 as a turning point for Republicans.  Brownback didn't win the nomination, but he definitely demonstrated the willingness to say that shit out loud, and he wasn't boo'ed off the stage. Then Palin.  Then McCain having to push back on a voter who thought Obama was a secret Muslim.  

Edited December 29, 2022 by Tuco

[atomheartbevo 89348]

6 minutes ago, Tuco said:

2000 or 2008.  For all W's faults, I don't recall him hitting the racism/nativism button more than your average Republican.  Sure, after 9/11, the Republicans led the way on anti-Muslim/anti-foreign/anti-brown.  But W won the Muslim vote in 2000.  

Some in W’s campaign made hay out of McCain having an adopted daughter who was not white.

[YGIFS 19449]

Some of us, never, ever voted for Trump.  Even, and especially in 2016.  We don't expect a parade, but get the fuck over yourselves.  I do more to damage the GOP before 9:00am than you do all fucking year.  Sorry I didn't vote for Ann Richards in 1994.  I was a teenager in another goddamn state.  You don't win jack-fucking-shit unless you corral the anti-Trump vote.  Do you fucking get it now?  Nobody needs your absolution.  I never liked or voted for that piece of human shit.  Also.  And.  In addition to.  Other fields of play.  You're losing my Hispanic Field for your and grand fucking strategy is to accuse people who may have voted for George W. 20+ years ago of being Nazis.  Fucking brilliant.  Fucking morons.  Hey maybe get Beto back out there to save us, that can work...right?  

Edited December 29, 2022 by YGIFS

[Brisketexan 104425]

7 minutes ago, Tuco said:

2000 or 2008.  For all W's faults, I don't recall him hitting the racism/nativism button more than your average Republican.  Sure, after 9/11, the Republicans led the way on anti-Muslim/anti-foreign/anti-brown.  But W won the Muslim vote in 2000.  

I saw 2008 as a turning point for Republicans.  Brownback didn't win the nomination, but he definitely demonstrated the willingness to say that shit out loud, and he wasn't boo'ed off the stage. Then Palin.  Then McCain having to push back on a voter who thought Obama was a secret Muslim.  

Sorry, conflated the two events.  2000 actually DID flag the nativist/racist bit.  Recall the attacks on McCain via the whisper campaign that he didn't just have a secret illegitimate child, but she was.....BLACK (GASP PEARLCLUTCHING!)  But then yeah, 2008.....the absolutely shameless racism/birtherism on top of the utterly stupid, populist anti-intellectualism of Palin...I mean, we decided that being smart was a BAD thing?  WTF?  Maybe, looking back, it was 2000-2008 that wrecked it for me. 

And yes, some of that was W -- not the brightest bulb in the bunch, manipulated by some pretty bad people.  But in the end, I maintain to this day that -- wrongheaded as he might have been and still is -- his interest largely WAS in the Republic.  

Whereas contrast with TFG, who has openly stated numerous times in numerous ways that he wants to dissolve the Republic and the Constitution and install himself as dictator for life.....and 45%of Americans are happy to go along with it.  WTF?

[Brisketexan 104425]

3 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Some of us, never, ever voted for Trump.  Even, and especially in 2016.  We don't expect a parade, but get the fuck over yourselves.  I do more to damage the GOP before 9:00am than you do all fucking year.  Sorry I didn't vote for Ann Richards in 1994.  I was a teenager in another goddamn state.  You don't win jack-fucking-shit unless you corral the anti-Trump vote.  Do you fucking get it now?  Nobody needs your absolution.  I never liked or voted for that piece of human shit.  Also.  And.  In addition to.  Other fields of play.  You're losing my Hispanic Play and your grand fucking strategy is to accuse people who may have voted for George W. 20+ years ago of being Nazis.  Fucking brilliant.  Fucking morons.  

So, the current GQP nutbars, who accuse ANY "apostates" who fail to bend the knee at the altar of full-on Trumpism of being "RINOS!"?  Yeah.....same idiocy, different side of the coin.

Purity tests are a path to loserdom.  If the Democratic party is to be an exclusive club for only the most far-left ideologues....prepare to have similar electoral success as the far-right nutbars.  If the Democratic response to Trumpism turns out to be similarly polarized, purity test idiocy, I'll be ripshit pissed because that will mean that fucking NOBODY is manning the ramparts to actually defend the fucking Republic.  To be fair, from the bulk of the Democratic party (national level all the way down to Travis county), that's NOT what I've seen.  Quite a few prominent, lifelong Dems in this town know my history, and are very glad to have me with them, supporting them, etc.  I hope that the party keeps it up, because I've already invested significant time and money with them, and intend to do so to my dying day (which I hope is, you know, a lot later).

[Brisketexan 104425]

10 hours ago, staboner said:

well, I thought it was for the Sybians

Bookmarking this for my million dollar idea: tongue-twister porn.  First title: "Lybian Lesbians on Sybians."

I'm an idea-man.

[Bozo_Casanova 26218]

13 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Some of us, never, ever voted for Trump.  Even, and especially in 2016.  We don't expect a parade, but get the fuck over yourselves.  I do more to damage the GOP before 9:00am than you do all fucking year.  Sorry I didn't vote for Ann Richards in 1994.  I was a teenager in another goddamn state.  You don't win jack-fucking-shit unless you corral the anti-Trump vote.  Do you fucking get it now?  Nobody needs your absolution.  I never liked or voted for that piece of human shit.  Also.  And.  In addition to.  Other fields of play.  You're losing my Hispanic Field for your and grand fucking strategy is to accuse people who may have voted for George W. 20+ years ago of being Nazis.  Fucking brilliant.  Fucking morons.  Hey maybe get Beto back out there to save us, that can work...right?  

So what, you want a gold star for seeing what was always there for everyone to see? It’s all been bullshit since 1980, and when GHW Bush (still be best president of my life) tried to pull it back in 1990 the party spat him out. Trump just dropped the facade and held up a mirror, and like 10% of you guys didn’t like what you saw.

So it’s funny- I was on Hornfans with these cats 20+ years ago when they were all normie Republicans. When they told me the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts would pay for themselves, when they participated in “operation chaos” in 2008 because Obama was a secret black nationalist, when they cheered for Citizens United because more free speech, when they pretended “maccaca” wasn’t a racial slur because Jim Webb was a radical leftist, when they defended medmal caps because they would lower healthcare costs, and on and on. 
Oh, but Trump, sure. You could live with Intellectual bankruptcy and moral confusion, but not the vulgarity of living out loud. Yes, it must all be very traumatic. Project what you want onto Democrats, but maybe this would be more productive between you and your therapist. 

[Pato del Muerto 52312]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Bookmarking this for my million dollar idea: tongue-twister porn.  First title: "Lybian Lesbians on Sybians."

I'm an idea-man.

Ahem. 
 

Lusty Libyan lesbians straddle Serbian sybian 

[Brisketexan 104425]

3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

So it’s funny- I was on Hornfans with these cats 20+ years ago when they were all normie Republicans. When they told me the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts would pay for themselves, when they participated in “operation chaos” in 2008 because Obama was a secret black nationalist, when they cheered for Citizens United because more free speech, when they pretended “maccaca” wasn’t a racial slur because Jim Webb was a radical leftist, when they defended medmal caps because they would lower healthcare costs, and on and on. 
Oh, but Trump, sure. You could live with Intellectual bankruptcy and moral confusion, but not the vulgarity of living out loud. Yes, it must all be very traumatic. Project what you want onto Democrats, but maybe this would be more productive between you and your therapist. 

Umm, you're grouping a lot of us together when we were FAR from unified.  For example, I bolded where you and I indeed disagreed (like I said, I had to actually SEE trickle-down fail to realize it absolutely, 100%, DOES NOT WORK), and underlined where you and I were actually in agreement.  The anti-Obama racism in 2008 was horrific, Citizens United has been devastating as expected, "maccaca" was of course a racial slur, and you damn well know I thought all of the "tort reform" bullshit was bullshit from the get-go.  And I wasn't alone over there.  Sure, you had your Swams (still out there, celebrating Trump slaying the seedy payday loan industry, I guess), but on a lot of those issues, you damn well saw a lot of people who had mostly voted Repub break with the party orthodoxy on those points.

A lot of us have always voted across party lines to some extent or another (while my voting history up to 2008 or so was probably 70-30 Repub, that also means that it was 30% Dem, meaning that many of us never saw Democrats as "evil" or any of that bullshit).  I never once in my life said "I will never vote for a Democrat."  But I have damn well said, and maintain, that I will not ever vote for a Republican ever again.  And since 2016, I have kept to that.  Not a single Republican.  I will not cross over and vote for a party that is an openly terrorist fascist enterprise, intent on overthrowing the Republic, and cruelly attacking the weakest among us as a sick show of "strength."  So, yeah, there's a real difference in how folks like us are approaching things now.  I sure as shit don't expect a gold star or trophy, but the Democratic party would also be wise to realize that voters like me can be a significant source of votes, money, and strength and length of reach for the party.

4 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Ahem. 
 

Lusty Libyan lesbians straddle Serbian sybian 

You are welcome to join my advisory commission.

We will meet on The Ledge.  But, we will make lots of money, and we will have snacks.