A story about a pathetic man's downfall [34 Felony Convictions]

[atomheartbevo 90789]

3 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

The fuck your feelings crowd seem like a bunch of snowflakes. 

Like I said in another thread, all of the MAGA people I know, people that bitched about the "woke" NFL/Roger Goodell, Kaepernick, the "woke" advertisers, Rihanna, etc., all of those motherfuckers could not quit the Super Bowl, unlike me and a shitload of others who can just watch the good bits later on when people shove them down our social media feeds.

[Js1 87395]

6 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Like I said in another thread, all of the MAGA people I know, people that bitched about the "woke" NFL/Roger Goodell, Kaepernick, the "woke" advertisers, Rihanna, etc., all of those motherfuckers could not quit the Super Bowl, unlike me and a shitload of others who can just watch the good bits later on when people shove them down our social media feeds.

[Red Five 41833]

11 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Like I said in another thread, all of the MAGA people I know, people that bitched about the "woke" NFL/Roger Goodell, Kaepernick, the "woke" advertisers, Rihanna, etc., all of those motherfuckers could not quit the Super Bowl, unlike me and a shitload of others who can just watch the good bits later on when people shove them down our social media feeds.

I said something to someone a few months ago about how I don't pay any attention to the NFL anymore. 

"Oh yeah I know what you mean. All the 'end racism' and cancer stuff, it's like hey I just want to watch football."

"Um, no. I just don't give a shit about the NFL."

[atomheartbevo 90789]

1 hour ago, Red Five said:

I said something to someone a few months ago about how I don't pay any attention to the NFL anymore. 

"Oh yeah I know what you mean. All the 'end racism' and cancer stuff, it's like hey I just want to watch football."

"Um, no. I just don't give a shit about the NFL."

Yep, have had people be like "oh you can't stand the wokeism stuff either?"

"No, I stopped caring when Bud Adams destroyed the Oilers in the 90s.  By the way, did you know that homage garbage can Bud Adams, for all of his money, died alone, and his body was only discovered after somebody decided to call the cops and have them do a wellness check?"

It blows my mind that so many people who claim to hate the "woke" NFL, its players, its owners, Goodell, etc., won't stop watching it.  If MAGA had actually boycotted the NFL like they all pretended to, I know dozens of people who would have stopped watching.  And most of them had no ties to the Super Bowl teams, but still had to watch.  

But non-MAGA people are the sheep.

jenniferlawrenceok.gif

[Underdog 29274]

2 hours ago, Js1 said:

She be creepin' on them ladies. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 34109]

she's at the fucking super bowl and she couldn't look less interested. what a horrible human being

[TwiceHorn 32163]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

Yep, have had people be like "oh you can't stand the wokeism stuff either?"

"No, I stopped caring when Bud Adams destroyed the Oilers in the 90s.  By the way, did you know that homage garbage can Bud Adams, for all of his money, died alone, and his body was only discovered after somebody decided to call the cops and have them do a wellness check?"

It blows my mind that so many people who claim to hate the "woke" NFL, its players, its owners, Goodell, etc., won't stop watching it.  If MAGA had actually boycotted the NFL like they all pretended to, I know dozens of people who would have stopped watching.  And most of them had no ties to the Super Bowl teams, but still had to watch.  

But non-MAGA people are the sheep.

jenniferlawrenceok.gif

I stopped caring when Jerrah hired Barry Switzer.

I do wind up watching most Super Bowls and a few Cowboy games here and there, but don't give a shit.

Edited February 14, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[RomaVicta 30739]

Adams and Jones made it easy for me to use Sundays for something other than the NFL. I'll watch if I'm idly in front of a TV, but usually I'm watching something else with my beloved or wasting time some other way.

 

[chainsaw 10341]

53 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

she's at the fucking super bowl and she couldn't look less interested. what a horrible human being

probably the woke halftime show

[bolverk 30409]

tl/dr: This coming Thursday, the judge will release the introduction and conclusion, plus portions where the grand jury suspects folks lied to them.

 

Georgia Judge Will Release Parts of Report on Trump Election Inquiry
Releasing the introduction and conclusion of a special grand jury report could shed light on the extent to which Mr. Trump and others might face legal jeopardy in the case.

ATLANTA — A Georgia judge said on Monday that he would disclose parts of a grand jury report later this week that details an investigation into election interference by former President Donald J. Trump and his allies, though he would keep the jury’s specific recommendations secret for now.

In making his ruling, the judge, Robert C.I. McBurney of Fulton County Superior Court, said the special grand jury raised concerns in its report “that some witnesses may have lied under oath during their testimony.” But the eight-page ruling included few other revelations about the report, the contents of which have been carefully guarded, with the only physical copy in the possession of the district attorney’s office.

The ruling does, however, indicate that the special grand jury’s findings are serious. The report includes “a roster of who should (or should not) be indicted, and for what, in relation to the conduct (and aftermath) of the 2020 general election in Georgia,” Judge McBurney wrote.

Spoiler

For the last two years, prosecutors in Atlanta have been conducting a criminal investigation into whether Mr. Trump and his allies interfered in the 2020 presidential election in Georgia, which he narrowly lost to President Biden. Much of the inquiry — including interviewing dozens of witnesses — was conducted before the special grand jury, which under Georgia law had to issue a final report on its findings, which in this case includes charging recommendations. Special grand juries do not have the power to issue indictments.

It will be up to Fani T. Willis, the local district attorney, to decide what, if any, charges she will bring to a regular grand jury.

Judge McBurney said he would release portions of the report on Thursday. In addition to the part detailing the grand jury’s concerns about witnesses lying under oath, he will make public the report’s introduction and conclusion — sections that could give a general impression of the extent to which Mr. Trump and others might face legal jeopardy.

At a hearing last month, a coalition of news organizations asked the judge to make the report public, as the jurors had recommended. But Ms. Willis sought to keep the special grand jury’s findings secret, at least ahead of her charging decisions, saying during the hearing that she was “mindful of protecting future defendants’ rights.”

Judge McBurney said in his ruling that the nature of the special grand jury process allowed for only “very limited due process” for “those who might now be named as indictment-worthy in the final report.” Because of that, he said, the report’s charging recommendations “are for the District Attorney’s eyes only — for now.”

Thomas M. Clyde, a lawyer for the news organizations, including The New York Times, declined to comment on the ruling. Ms. Willis, in a statement on Monday, said: “I believe Judge McBurney’s order is legally sound and consistent with my request.”

Nearly 20 people known to have been named targets of the criminal investigation, as well as others, could face charges, including Rudolph W. Giuliani, Mr. Trump’s former personal lawyer, and David Shafer, the head of the Georgia Republican Party.

The central question is whether Mr. Trump himself will face criminal charges. Legal analysts who have followed the case say there are two areas of considerable risk for Mr. Trump.

The first is his direct involvement in recruiting a slate of bogus presidential electors after the 2020 election, even after Georgia’s results were recertified by the state’s Republican leadership. The second are the calls that he made to pressure state officials after the election, including one to Brad Raffensperger, the Georgia secretary of state, in which Mr. Trump said he needed to “find” 11,780 votes.

Mr. Trump’s lawyers said last month that their client “was never subpoenaed nor asked to come in voluntarily by this grand jury or anyone in the Fulton County District Attorney’s Office.”

“Therefore,” the lawyers added, “we can assume that the grand jury did their job and looked at the facts and the law, as we have, and concluded there were no violations of the law by President Trump.”

The Atlanta investigation is not the only potential criminal entanglement facing Mr. Trump as he begins another run for the presidency. In November, the Department of Justice named a special counsel, Jack Smith, to oversee two Trump-related criminal investigations.

And last month, the Manhattan district attorney’s office began presenting evidence to a grand jury about whether Mr. Trump paid hush money to a porn star during his 2016 presidential campaign, laying the groundwork for potential criminal charges against the former president in the coming months.

Judge McBurney said that he was delaying the release of parts of the report until Thursday to allow Ms. Willis’s office time to meet with him and discuss the “logistics of publication” and the possibility of further redactions.

 

[Brisketexan 107121]

Yep, have had people be like "oh you can't stand the wokeism stuff either?"
"No, I stopped caring when Bud Adams destroyed the Oilers in the 90s.  By the way, did you know that homage garbage can Bud Adams, for all of his money, died alone, and his body was only discovered after somebody decided to call the cops and have them do a wellness check?"
It blows my mind that so many people who claim to hate the "woke" NFL, its players, its owners, Goodell, etc., won't stop watching it.  If MAGA had actually boycotted the NFL like they all pretended to, I know dozens of people who would have stopped watching.  And most of them had no ties to the Super Bowl teams, but still had to watch.  
But non-MAGA people are the sheep.
jenniferlawrenceok.gif

Are you me?

[atomheartbevo 90789]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Are you me?

We both have a thing for Sela Ward (and probably close to the same number of restraining orders relating to her).

And an intense hatred for Bud Adams and the NFL for what happened to the Oilers...

[Neonmoon 38130]

You two get a room. Here is some material 

[Fudge Nuggets 19502]

2 hours ago, bolverk said:

tl/dr: This coming Thursday, the judge will release the introduction and conclusion, plus portions where the grand jury suspects folks lied to them.

 

Georgia Judge Will Release Parts of Report on Trump Election Inquiry
Releasing the introduction and conclusion of a special grand jury report could shed light on the extent to which Mr. Trump and others might face legal jeopardy in the case.

ATLANTA — A Georgia judge said on Monday that he would disclose parts of a grand jury report later this week that details an investigation into election interference by former President Donald J. Trump and his allies, though he would keep the jury’s specific recommendations secret for now.

In making his ruling, the judge, Robert C.I. McBurney of Fulton County Superior Court, said the special grand jury raised concerns in its report “that some witnesses may have lied under oath during their testimony.” But the eight-page ruling included few other revelations about the report, the contents of which have been carefully guarded, with the only physical copy in the possession of the district attorney’s office.

The ruling does, however, indicate that the special grand jury’s findings are serious. The report includes “a roster of who should (or should not) be indicted, and for what, in relation to the conduct (and aftermath) of the 2020 general election in Georgia,” Judge McBurney wrote.

  Reveal hidden contents

For the last two years, prosecutors in Atlanta have been conducting a criminal investigation into whether Mr. Trump and his allies interfered in the 2020 presidential election in Georgia, which he narrowly lost to President Biden. Much of the inquiry — including interviewing dozens of witnesses — was conducted before the special grand jury, which under Georgia law had to issue a final report on its findings, which in this case includes charging recommendations. Special grand juries do not have the power to issue indictments.

It will be up to Fani T. Willis, the local district attorney, to decide what, if any, charges she will bring to a regular grand jury.

Judge McBurney said he would release portions of the report on Thursday. In addition to the part detailing the grand jury’s concerns about witnesses lying under oath, he will make public the report’s introduction and conclusion — sections that could give a general impression of the extent to which Mr. Trump and others might face legal jeopardy.

At a hearing last month, a coalition of news organizations asked the judge to make the report public, as the jurors had recommended. But Ms. Willis sought to keep the special grand jury’s findings secret, at least ahead of her charging decisions, saying during the hearing that she was “mindful of protecting future defendants’ rights.”

Judge McBurney said in his ruling that the nature of the special grand jury process allowed for only “very limited due process” for “those who might now be named as indictment-worthy in the final report.” Because of that, he said, the report’s charging recommendations “are for the District Attorney’s eyes only — for now.”

Thomas M. Clyde, a lawyer for the news organizations, including The New York Times, declined to comment on the ruling. Ms. Willis, in a statement on Monday, said: “I believe Judge McBurney’s order is legally sound and consistent with my request.”

Nearly 20 people known to have been named targets of the criminal investigation, as well as others, could face charges, including Rudolph W. Giuliani, Mr. Trump’s former personal lawyer, and David Shafer, the head of the Georgia Republican Party.

The central question is whether Mr. Trump himself will face criminal charges. Legal analysts who have followed the case say there are two areas of considerable risk for Mr. Trump.

The first is his direct involvement in recruiting a slate of bogus presidential electors after the 2020 election, even after Georgia’s results were recertified by the state’s Republican leadership. The second are the calls that he made to pressure state officials after the election, including one to Brad Raffensperger, the Georgia secretary of state, in which Mr. Trump said he needed to “find” 11,780 votes.

Mr. Trump’s lawyers said last month that their client “was never subpoenaed nor asked to come in voluntarily by this grand jury or anyone in the Fulton County District Attorney’s Office.”

“Therefore,” the lawyers added, “we can assume that the grand jury did their job and looked at the facts and the law, as we have, and concluded there were no violations of the law by President Trump.”

The Atlanta investigation is not the only potential criminal entanglement facing Mr. Trump as he begins another run for the presidency. In November, the Department of Justice named a special counsel, Jack Smith, to oversee two Trump-related criminal investigations.

And last month, the Manhattan district attorney’s office began presenting evidence to a grand jury about whether Mr. Trump paid hush money to a porn star during his 2016 presidential campaign, laying the groundwork for potential criminal charges against the former president in the coming months.

Judge McBurney said that he was delaying the release of parts of the report until Thursday to allow Ms. Willis’s office time to meet with him and discuss the “logistics of publication” and the possibility of further redactions.

 

Well, we already know absolutely jack shit will happen to dotard but how can anyone be indicted and it not be the guy that was doing the crime stuff?  I'm not sure which will make me rage harder, indictments get handed out but dotard isn't the recipient of one of them or twicehorn's explanation on how it's all by the book and there's really nothing that can be done.

[TwiceHorn 32163]

46 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Well, we already know absolutely jack shit will happen to dotard but how can anyone be indicted and it not be the guy that was doing the crime stuff?  I'm not sure which will make me rage harder, indictments get handed out but dotard isn't the recipient of one of them or twicehorn's explanation on how it's all by the book and there's really nothing that can be done.

When did I ever say nothing can be done?  

And where do you get the idea that Trump won't be a recommended indictment?  Anyway, we won't know that, probably ever.  He'll be indicted or he won't.

At least with the phone call we have very direct evidence that he was intimately involved in efforts to fuck with the Georgia election results.

It is a little bit less clear how direct was his involvement in the schemes surrounding 1/6.

And Trump getting indicted is kind of the opposite of jack shit.  You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride.

He will go absolutely insane if he is indicted.  And I am here for it.

Edited February 14, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[Fudge Nuggets 19502]

7 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

And where do you get the idea that Trump won't be a recommended indictment?  Anyway, we won't know that, probably ever.  He'll be indicted or he won't.

And Trump getting indicted is kind of the opposite of jack shit.  You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride.

Guess I need to repeat myself.

 

8 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Well, we already know absolutely jack shit will happen to dotard

76 years of no consequences confirms this. 

[Bookman 4778]

18 hours ago, Restless Native said:

Far more than half of our nation.  It's science.

I agree with him that half our nation is in serious decline though. They voted for a failed businessman for Christ's sake

[TwiceHorn 32163]

1 hour ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Guess I need to repeat myself.

 

76 years of no consequences confirms this. 

Weill, for all but about the last 10 of those 76 years, he wasn't much different than any other rich white dude around NYC, or elsewhere.

I don't put much stock in the whole "teflon Don" thing.  Guys like him mostly get left alone by the criminal authorities, until they start doing really egregious, high-profile, high-loss public stuff that can't be ignored, e.g. Madoff, Enron, etc.  In that regard, Trump has no unique ability to escape consequences.

Most of the things he did as President were protected by the can't-indict-sitting-President policy and by the Senate majority, so I don't consider those really valid examples of any unique ability of Trump to escape consequences.

His latest crimes do happen to be somewhat difficult to prove, except apparently obstruction of justice in regard to the documents.

[WhatTheBuck 28962]

16 hours ago, Js1 said:

 

14 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

she's at the fucking super bowl and she couldn't look less interested. what a horrible human being

 

13 hours ago, chainsaw said:

probably the woke halftime show

Someone posted that it was during Lift Every Voice, aka the black national anthem.

[TheStoicPaisano 9963]

Momentous, the freshmaker.

 

[YGIFS 19460]

"the Mother Load", Mr. trump?  Yeah, nothing creepy going on in your family tree...nope.  

I mean, we could riff on that for three more pages on just that.  Never mind keepsake items referred to as momentous.  

Edited February 14, 2023 by YGIFS

[Red Five 41833]

I don't know guys, I think he may not be telling the whole truth.

[Beau Vine 55999]

THEY WERE MOMENTOUS!!!!

[Disco Strangler 1916]

"The mother load."

What Pence gives his wife every year on Valentines Day. 

[TwiceHorn 32163]

2 hours ago, TheStoicPaisano said:

Momentous, the freshmaker.

 

He's such an illiterate turd.

It gruntles me to think of what that turd Trusty and the other lawyers think when they see shit like this.

One of his dumbass lawyers that hasn't made in appearance in the court cases, was going on about how he used a confidential document folder to cover a light on a landline phone next to his bed. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-used-classified-folder-bedroom-lamp-shade-could-sleep-night-attorney-says

That's the origin of this latest bullshit.

However, I must say, while I have seen several reports concerning the latest document revelation, I'm not seeing anything else reporting or discussing the aide's laptop.  I hope that wasn't more breathless bullshit from twatter.

[wildcat09 29623]

13 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

When did I ever say nothing can be done?  

And where do you get the idea that Trump won't be a recommended indictment?  Anyway, we won't know that, probably ever.  He'll be indicted or he won't.

At least with the phone call we have very direct evidence that he was intimately involved in efforts to fuck with the Georgia election results.

It is a little bit less clear how direct was his involvement in the schemes surrounding 1/6.

And Trump getting indicted is kind of the opposite of jack shit.  You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride.

He will go absolutely insane if he is indicted.  And I am here for it.

Call my cynical, but I'm pretty sure Trump won't be getting the Freddie Gray treatment.

[YGIFS 19460]

Wasn't "Momentous" that weird, backwards movie with Guy Pearce where people kept telling him lies to gaslight him into violence, all the while he struggled to retain some semblance of the truth to figure out how he and everything he loved has been manipulated to enrich some narcissistic asshole?  

Oh my fucking God, we're Leonard Shelby.

The simulation is now making us parts of movies the simulation made up about movies inventing simulations.  FUCKING FUCK.  This is why we can't have nice things! 

[henrygandorf 29232]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I hope that wasn't more breathless bullshit from twatter.

don't do this.

[Fudge Nuggets 19502]

20 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

don't do this.

Don’t tell him what to do (or don’t do)

[DigglerontheHoof 21591]

43 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Wasn't "Momentous" that weird, backwards movie with Guy Pearce where people kept telling him lies to gaslight him into violence, all the while he struggled to retain some semblance of the truth to figure out how he and everything he loved has been manipulated to enrich some narcissistic asshole?  

Oh my fucking God, we're Leonard Shelby.

The simulation is now making us parts of movies the simulation made up about movies inventing simulations.  FUCKING FUCK.  This is why we can't have nice things! 

Memento

[High Plains Drifter 11195]

6 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Weill, for all but about the last 10 of those 76 years, he wasn't much different than any other rich white dude around NYC, or elsewhere. and just like them, no consequences

I don't put much stock in the whole "teflon Don" thing.  Guys like him mostly get left alone by the criminal authorities would you call that no consequences? I would, until they start doing really egregious, high-profile, high-loss public stuff that can't be ignored, e.g. Madoff, Enron, etc.  In that regard, Trump has no unique ability to escape consequences. Except so far he has, so no consequences.

Most of the things he did as President were protected by the can't-indict-sitting-President policy and by the Senate majority, so I don't consider those really valid examples of any unique ability of Trump to escape consequences. In other words, no consequences.

His latest crimes do happen to be somewhat difficult to prove ie no consequences, except apparently obstruction of justice in regard to the documents. I guess we'll see, but so far no consequences.

 

 

 

that's a lot of words to say that DOTarD has suffered no consequences. 

 

[YGIFS 19460]

3 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Memento

You have to shit on jokes on Valentine's Day?  

[TwiceHorn 32163]

2 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

 

that's a lot of words to say that DOTarD has suffered no consequences. 

 

Implicit in the Trump will suffer no consequences is that he's somehow special.  Well, he's been a special type of criminal over the last 10 years and people are paying attention.  Prior to that, he was nothing special.

[Snake Diggity 4772]

5 hours ago, TheStoicPaisano said:

Momentous, the freshmaker.

 

Who spied on your campaign?  No one.

Who stuffed the ballot boxes? Sane, legal voters whom you scared into action.

Who paid off the FBI?  No one, although you tried.

[TwiceHorn 32163]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/special-counsel-seeks-testimony-trump-lawyer-prosecutors-allege-eviden-rcna70711

Shit's getting real.

Smith is aksing the grand jury judge, presumably Howell, to pierce the attorney-client privilege with Evan Corcoran through the crime-fraud exception on the MAL documents deal.

That means he wants to know what Trump told Corcoran regarding certifying that all of the docs had been handed over and getting Bobb to sign the statement.

Smith is not fucking around.  Hope he has the horses to pierce the privilege.  I'm betting he does.

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[Beau Vine 55999]

7 hours ago, YGIFS said:

You have to shit on jokes on Valentine's Day?  

Maybe he's German?

[YGIFS 19460]

Just now, Beau Vine said:

Maybe he's German?

True, and "jokes" is his dog's name.

[TwiceHorn 32163]

42 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/special-counsel-seeks-testimony-trump-lawyer-prosecutors-allege-eviden-rcna70711

Shit's getting real.

Smith is aksing the grand jury judge, presumably Howell, to pierce the attorney-client privilege with Evan Corcoran through the crime-fraud exception on the MAL documents deal.

That means he wants to know what Trump told Corcoran regarding certifying that all of the docs had been handed over and getting Bobb to sign the statement.

Smith is not fucking around.  Hope he has the horses to pierce the privilege.  I'm betting he does.

 

Like subpoenaing Pence, I think he's getting near having cases wrapped up.  And I suspect the documents case will be mostly obstruction of justice, once he's established that Trump instructed Corcoran to cobble up that bullshit statement that he wouldn't even sign.

They're probably going to have to grant Corcoran immunity or he'd have a solid 5th Amendment claim.

[TwiceHorn 32163]

Also on that front, Pence is allegedly fighting the subpoena on Speech and Debate grounds because he was acting as President of the Senate about that time.  Kind of thinking that's not going to go too far.  And Trump supposedly will assert executive privilege, which will in all likelihood get rejected.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/14/pence-subpoena-trump-election-00082637

Well, shit.  Upon further inquiry, the speech and debate thing may be pretty legit.  As noted in the article, DOJ has asserted on multiple occasions that VP acting as President of the Senate is shielded by Speech and Debate.  Fuck.

Still, this is bold action by Smith.  He's clearly not afraid of a fight.  Pence, though, is going to have better lawyers than most of the rest of Trumpco, I'd wager.

Edited February 15, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[WhatTheBuck 28962]

8 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/special-counsel-seeks-testimony-trump-lawyer-prosecutors-allege-eviden-rcna70711

Shit's getting real.

Smith is aksing the grand jury judge, presumably Howell, to pierce the attorney-client privilege with Evan Corcoran through the crime-fraud exception on the MAL documents deal.

That means he wants to know what Trump told Corcoran regarding certifying that all of the docs had been handed over and getting Bobb to sign the statement.

Smith is not fucking around.  Hope he has the horses to pierce the privilege.  I'm betting he does.

 

Good luck with that.

[DigglerontheHoof 21591]

[Tuco 5100]

Like subpoenaing Pence, I think he's getting near having cases wrapped up.  And I suspect the documents case will be mostly obstruction of justice, once he's established that Trump instructed Corcoran to cobble up that bullshit statement that he wouldn't even sign.
They're probably going to have to grant Corcoran immunity or he'd have a solid 5th Amendment claim.

I assume they could only grant immunity for criminal repercussions. His license would be out flapping in the wind.

[TwiceHorn 32163]

20 hours ago, Tuco said:

I assume they could only grant immunity for criminal repercussions. His license would be out flapping in the wind.

Believe that is correct, yes.

Also Meadows subpoenaed.  https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/15/politics/mark-meadows-subpoena/index.html

That article also mentions eight high-level White House officials that have been subpoenaed to DC grand juries, refused to testify on at least certain topics, gone to court over it and made second appearances before the grand jury, indicating that the government is securing at least partial wins on various privilege issues and probably creating precedents for use against subsequent witnesses.  Good stuff.

[TwiceHorn 32163]

So this Pence subpoena and his Speech and Debate immunity defense is going to be a really interesting question.

Other than the legal questions of course, Pence is trying to "undistance" himself from Trump and enhance his measurables with Maga.

But, legally, he is an officer of the executive branch 99% of the time, except on the rare occasion that he's acting as President of the Senate, which he was doing on 1/6.  As an executive branch officer, he's have no entitlement to Speech and Debate immunity, but does he get it for the one or two days a year that he's President of the Senate, and most particularly on 1/6?  As President of the Senate for tiebreaker purposes on legislative votes, he might well be entitled to such immunity.

As noted above, DOJ in defending VPs from civil litigation has argued that when acting as President of the Senate, a VP has Speech and Debate immunity, but those arguments have been mostly in passing and haven't received much scrutiny.  That I believe Pence concluded that his role on 1/6 was almost entirely ceremonial rather than legislative in character undercuts the defense. 

The problem with Speech and Debate immunity is that it encompasses a lot of activity, basically anything related to legislative function, and has almost no exceptions.  Congresscritters just cannot be questioned or prosecuted for criminal offenses based on legislative activity.  There is one case where a congresscritter attempted to avoid a bribery conviction on Speech and Debate, but the courts found that the bribe, although tied to legislative activity as a quid pro quo, was a separate action from any legislative activity. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13662]

On 2/14/2023 at 8:14 AM, TheStoicPaisano said:

Momentous, the freshmaker.

 

The FBI also planted a snow globe, a George Washington wig and a I Was President And All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt souvenirs.

[chainsaw 10341]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

So this Pence subpoena and his Speech and Debate immunity defense is going to be a really interesting question.

Other than the legal questions of course, Pence is trying to "undistance" himself from Trump and enhance his measurables with Maga.

But, legally, he is an officer of the executive branch 99% of the time, except on the rare occasion that he's acting as President of the Senate, which he was doing on 1/6.  As an executive branch officer, he's have no entitlement to Speech and Debate immunity, but does he get it for the one or two days a year that he's President of the Senate, and most particularly on 1/6?  As President of the Senate for tiebreaker purposes on legislative votes, he might well be entitled to such immunity.

As noted above, DOJ in defending VPs from civil litigation has argued that when acting as President of the Senate, a VP has Speech and Debate immunity, but those arguments have been mostly in passing and haven't received much scrutiny.  That I believe Pence concluded that his role on 1/6 was almost entirely ceremonial rather than legislative in character undercuts the defense. 

The problem with Speech and Debate immunity is that it encompasses a lot of activity, basically anything related to legislative function, and has almost no exceptions.  Congresscritters just cannot be questioned or prosecuted for criminal offenses based on legislative activity.  There is one case where a congresscritter attempted to avoid a bribery conviction on Speech and Debate, but the courts found that the bribe, although tied to legislative activity as a quid pro quo, was a separate action from any legislative activity. 

What if the questioning has nothing to do with a legislative function?

[Sawbonz 28272]

Hilarity should ensue 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13768]

GA case: https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-georgia-report-release-02-16-23/index.html

Quote

The special grand jury wrote that the group believes that perjury "may have been committed by one or more witnesses testifying before it,” according to portions of the report disclosed Thursday morning. "The Grand Jury recommends that the District Attorney seek appropriate indictments for such crimes where the evidence is compelling."

I fully expect that Trump will never spend a night in jail but like many political cases, the people on the periphery will do time as they were stupid to carry out illegal orders and/or lie about it later.

[Poe It Up 126]

Good lord, they’re not going to put former presidents in jail. But it’s clear to see that he’s not dealing with a full deck at the moment. Some of that is certainly age but some of it is the pressure of these investigations, I assume some will take solace in that. 

[4th&Five 42079]

Lulz...he's the same racist, narcissistic, piece of shit he's been for 40+ years.  You just looked past it while it was convenient for you.