A story about a pathetic man's downfall [34 Felony Convictions]

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

6 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

So, either my lawsplaining is supporting fascists or ignoring them or is some kind of naivete?

It has been pointed out on occasion that these charges may be somewhat contrived and difficult to convict.  Packer might make it interesting.  He has no privileges to hide behind, can't invoke the 5th because of the non-prosecution agreement and probably also limitations.  Of course, he'd have to be truthful, so there's that.

Pecker. His name is Pecker. 

[Captainant 27311]

7 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

So, either my lawsplaining is supporting fascists or ignoring them or is some kind of naivete?

It has been pointed out on occasion that these charges may be somewhat contrived and difficult to convict.  Packer might make it interesting.  He has no privileges to hide behind, can't invoke the 5th because of the non-prosecution agreement and probably also limitations.  Of course, he'd have to be truthful, so there's that.

Well tbh I'm mainly just poking fun at you since your normal contribution is a very thorough and well cited "ain't nothin gonna happen". Man I sure do hope that this leads somewhere or to some sort of consequence for trump, but based on having eyes and a memory, I'm starting to come around to embrace that there's nothing our legal system can actually do about a fascist uprising attempt. Either to retroactively punish one, or to proactively preempt one. 

 

Like the BEST lead we've gotten on fucking ANYONE facing any sort of consequence or meaningful heat to be dragged into a deposition and made to speak truthfully, is a fucking tabloid publisher? Are you fucking kidding me? That's not a win for democracy, or even a fucking slap on the wrist for the people who are STILL ACTIVELY TRYING TO DESTROY OUR DEMOCRACY AS WE FUCKING SPEAK

Edited March 28, 2023 by Captainant

[atomheartbevo 89362]

My 10 year-old comes up with better excuses than Trump.

[Beau Vine 53965]

2 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Pecker. His name is Pecker. 

 

[South Austin 52037]

A big part of me wants this piece of shit to stick around and continue to fuck with Desantis through the Republican primary, further tearing up that party.  But if we're doomed for a one-term Biden, then I'm more conflicted.

[Goredho 17302]

6 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

Anyone that admits to being a supporter of this socio-path, needs a bullet to their head. The world would be a better place 

 

J6 is the new 9/11.  Nevar forget.

[TwiceHorn 31184]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Well tbh I'm mainly just poking fun at you since your normal contribution is a very thorough and well cited "ain't nothin gonna happen". Man I sure do hope that this leads somewhere or to some sort of consequence for trump, but based on having eyes and a memory, I'm starting to come around to embrace that there's nothing our legal system can actually do about a fascist uprising attempt. Either to retroactively punish one, or to proactively preempt one. 

 

Like the BEST lead we've gotten on fucking ANYONE facing any sort of consequence or meaningful heat to be dragged into a deposition and made to speak truthfully, is a fucking tabloid publisher? Are you fucking kidding me? That's not a win for democracy, or even a fucking slap on the wrist for the people who are STILL ACTIVELY TRYING TO DESTROY OUR DEMOCRACY AS WE FUCKING SPEAK

Actually, it's rarely "nothing's gonna happen."  It's an explainer of what did happen and what might happen next.  

I am the fiercest believer on the board that something will actually happen, just not on anyone here's timeframe.

And, I am not saying that Pecker is suffering consequences, I am explaining how Pecker may be a witness that solves fairly large evidentiary problems that Bragg faces in this case.

Finally, it was, in fact, the legal system that stopped the stealing of the 2020 election dead in its tracks.  And it is the legal system that is revealing what actually happened.  You wouldn't know anything about John Eastman and the others without the legal system.

[TwiceHorn 31184]

Speaking of "what will happen next," the summary judgment in Sidney Powell's case was made final on 2/22, making a notice of appeal or motion for new trial due last Friday.  Nothing shows up on the online docket.

That appears to mean that the Bar is abandoning its complaint against Powell.

Most disappointing.  I would like an explanation, but we are unlikely to get one.

[Captainant 27311]

29 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I am the fiercest believer on the board that something will actually happen, just not on anyone here's timeframe.

The last time there was a significant fascist uprising, they were eventually beaten, just not on anyone's preferred timeframe. 

29 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Finally, it was, in fact, the legal system that stopped the stealing of the 2020 election dead in its tracks.  And it is the legal system that is revealing what actually happened.  You wouldn't know anything about John Eastman and the others without the legal system.

To directly compare, hitler's beerhall putsch in 1923 also landed him in prison for nine whole months but they did nothing to meaningfully address the issues within their legal system and government and society that enabled a demagogue to twist reality into a false set of alternative facts. We too have the same list of false grievances and big lies that are foisted by our current fascists, even right down to the thinly veiled anti-semitism via ludicrious conspiracy theories.

The germans legal system stopped the putsch in its tracks, but I seem to recall the fellow behind it doing more things of note later... Ah well I'm sure the germans did just fine with their approach.

 

And wouldn't you know it, similar to what happened in history, our very own abortive fascist coup is starting to become lionized into their lore and of the fabric of the party itself! I'm sure that'll end juuuuuuuuuuuust fine like it did before. Just gotta be sure they aren't maddog focused on a particular marginal group that they could "other" and we can dodge the worst of it.

 

My point in all of this is: we don't have the luxury of waiting for years and years and years for the courts to play fuck fuck games with bullshit fabricated games of privilege this and that, as they have been doing with trumpco. Each day we let that cancer stay in our society is another day closer to that eventual metastasization when we lose democratic control and suddenly there's enough people in power and seats to decide the rules and adjudicate them and decide to stop following the norm of following the rules.

If you had cancer, you wouldn't be ok with your doctor postponing your chemo treatment for years because of a paperwork issue, would you? There's a whole world outside of the legal system where the fascists are still growing in power and authority and further stripping rights away. Happening right now. Our cancer is still fucking active and spreading.

The longer we wait, the worse the cure will be. Legally speaking or otherwise.

[tx 3 putt 76159]

The Beer Hall Putsch was the practice run. Jan 6th, was the practice run. 

[High Plains Drifter 10970]

On 3/26/2023 at 9:37 PM, longhornmatt said:

Trump needs to lose the nomination (I don’t think he will).  You can say Desantis or [insert other Republican here] is as bad or worse because they are copying Trump’s policies and are smarter than Trump … but ultimately I think that’s way off.  None of them are so shameless, and none of them have such cult followings, that they would actually try to become a dictator.  Trump would.  

If he becomes President again, we’re going to have a constitutional crisis because he won’t leave office again until he dies.  And he very well could beat Biden if he’s the nominee.  This is not a slam dunk, “Oh I hope Trump is the GOP candidate because then it’s a certain victory!” situation.  It’s insane that it isn’t, but it isn’t. 

 

Disagree with the bolded. dOTaRd has shown the way, others will follow.

But I do agree he needs to lose the nom, because he will go scorched earth and either run as an independent, or convince his magats to not vote for whomever beat him (what's the use, the election is rigged anyway, right?) and the D nominee (Brandon I assume) wins in a landslide.

 

 

 

[YGIFS 19449]

the only good news about a post-Trump MAGA wave continuing is that somebody like DeSantis, or Abbott, or Pompeo could still whip up that same 25mm voter base into the same frenzy.  But those people would feel bad about it, or at least not as energetic.  They still need a shitbag to follow, and to demonize the libs and brown people and the different.  But the other candidates don't make it fun or pleasing.  That was Trump's singular gift, he let you celebrate the inner stupid and hateful inside you...and you had a fucking blast doing it.  

The good points:

-Many of that 25mm won't turn out to vote at all if he's not in the general

-Most of that 25mm will be dead in 10-20 years

-A decent Democratic campaign could still beat him in 2024 if he's in the general

The bad points:

-He's not dead yet

-When he does die, there'll be widespread denial of his death in addition to more mass shootings than at any other point in U.S. history

-While most of his base is older, they have managed to wind up a bunch of disaffected young white males that we're gonna be stuck dealing with for a century.  

[Foosters 17691]

@Captainant

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/28/us/politics/pence-testify-jan-6-grand-jury.html

Quote

A federal judge has ordered former Vice President Mike Pence to appear in front of a grand jury investigating former President Donald J. Trump’s attempts to overturn the 2020 election, sweeping aside two separate legal efforts by Mr. Pence and Mr. Trump to limit his testimony, according to two people familiar with the matter.

The rulings on Monday, by Judge James E. Boasberg in Federal District Court in Washington, were the latest setback to bids by Mr. Trump’s legal team to pare back the scope of the questions that prosecutors can ask witnesses close to him in two grand jury investigations.

 

[Beau Vine 53965]

4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

And, I am not saying that Pecker is suffering consequences

Some day I'll be mature enough that stuff like this won't be funny to me, but NOT TODAY!!!

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

That Pecker is going to get off easy. 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2785]

As to testifying, I didn't know Pecker would.

[TwiceHorn 31184]

4 hours ago, Foosters said:

@Captainant

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/28/us/politics/pence-testify-jan-6-grand-jury.html

 

That is pretty huge because Speech and Debate, if given full effect, would have precluded him from testifying entirely. 

Love to read the opinion.   Looks like Boasberg is carrying on Howell's good work   I hope he's as good at withstanding appeal as she was. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[Beau Vine 53965]

Reminder:

Edited March 29, 2023 by Beau Vine

[Beau Vine 53965]

dp

 

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Beau Vine
Why you no merge?

[Biff Tannen 45478]

13 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

My 10 year-old comes up with better excuses than Trump.

I was dead at the time!

[Biff Tannen 45478]

12 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Speaking of "what will happen next," the summary judgment in Sidney Powell's case was made final on 2/22, making a notice of appeal or motion for new trial due last Friday.  Nothing shows up on the online docket.

That appears to mean that the Bar is abandoning its complaint against Powell.

Most disappointing.  I would like an explanation, but we are unlikely to get one.

So chalk up another one for...

 

[brown water 3761]

52 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Reminder:

Can we stop with the popularity equals merit bullshit. Hootie has a top 10 all time sales album. The Force Awakens is #5 all time box office gross. The fact that (a likely overstated) number of simpletons passionately show up at rallies is about as compelling as New Kids on the Block poster sales in the late 80s 

[Biff Tannen 45478]

1 hour ago, brown water said:

Can we stop with the popularity equals merit bullshit. Hootie has a top 10 all time sales album. The Force Awakens is #5 all time box office gross. The fact that (a likely overstated) number of simpletons passionately show up at rallies is about as compelling as New Kids on the Block poster sales in the late 80s 

I think the actual point is that he isn't getting much popularity.  They are lying, just like that always have and always will.

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

 

Some crowd.

That’s nothing. In 1997 I went to a 2-day festival put on by the band Phish in Limestone, ME at the decommissioned Loring AFB. (Thanks, Bill!) That was way up in the boonies and nobody was flying in on a jet plane. Trump would kill for a crowd that size.

[YGIFS 19449]

He was literally on with Hannity the other night and said that MSM said it was just 30k, but he knew it was easily 2x that size.  So if we're to believe this savvy businessman, that means 60,000+  

There is no estimate any larger than 15,000.  

Also, if crowd size dictates who gets to be President, you tub of human excrement...fucking Indio Solari gets the Oval.  

[Woland 729]

He was literally on with Hannity the other night and said that MSM said it was just 30k, but he knew it was easily 2x that size.  So if we're to believe this savvy businessman, that means 60,000+  
There is no estimate any larger than 15,000.  
Also, if crowd size dictates who gets to be President, you tub of human excrement...fucking Indio Solari gets the Oval.  

For Trump, reality doesn’t matter, only perception.

[YGIFS 19449]

8 minutes ago, Woland said:

For Trump, reality doesn’t matter, only perception.

I'd like him to appoint a 'National Fire Marshal' who just guesstimates building capacities based on ego. 

"Eh, I dunno...there's probably 60,000 people in here."

Cashier, "But sir, this is a pad site Arby's"  

"Even still..." 

[atomheartbevo 89362]

1 hour ago, YGIFS said:

Also, if crowd size dictates who gets to be President, you tub of human excrement...fucking Indio Solari gets the Oval.  

Ehh, Taylor Swift gets it.

Or we amend the Constitution and South Korean boy band BTS gets it, but they'll have to share amongst themselves because half of them are in the South Korean military right now, and the other half will be in the SK military within the next 6 months.

[CTC2 2730]

13 hours ago, Captainant said:

The last time there was a significant fascist uprising, they were eventually beaten, just not on anyone's preferred timeframe. 

To directly compare, hitler's beerhall putsch in 1923 also landed him in prison for nine whole months but they did nothing to meaningfully address the issues within their legal system and government and society that enabled a demagogue to twist reality into a false set of alternative facts. We too have the same list of false grievances and big lies that are foisted by our current fascists, even right down to the thinly veiled anti-semitism via ludicrious conspiracy theories.

The germans legal system stopped the putsch in its tracks, but I seem to recall the fellow behind it doing more things of note later... Ah well I'm sure the germans did just fine with their approach.

 

And wouldn't you know it, similar to what happened in history, our very own abortive fascist coup is starting to become lionized into their lore and of the fabric of the party itself! I'm sure that'll end juuuuuuuuuuuust fine like it did before. Just gotta be sure they aren't maddog focused on a particular marginal group that they could "other" and we can dodge the worst of it.

 

My point in all of this is: we don't have the luxury of waiting for years and years and years for the courts to play fuck fuck games with bullshit fabricated games of privilege this and that, as they have been doing with trumpco. Each day we let that cancer stay in our society is another day closer to that eventual metastasization when we lose democratic control and suddenly there's enough people in power and seats to decide the rules and adjudicate them and decide to stop following the norm of following the rules.

If you had cancer, you wouldn't be ok with your doctor postponing your chemo treatment for years because of a paperwork issue, would you? There's a whole world outside of the legal system where the fascists are still growing in power and authority and further stripping rights away. Happening right now. Our cancer is still fucking active and spreading.

The longer we wait, the worse the cure will be. Legally speaking or otherwise.

Shit, if he is not tried, convicted, and jailed before the next election, it ain’t ever happening.  Even if Trump was as honest as they come, all those cases are abated once he wins and takes office, right?

[Born to Run 6524]

Reminder:

Refresh my memory, the only reminder is the lass on the left could take half my shit.

[Born to Run 6524]

Can we stop with the popularity equals merit bullshit. Hootie has a top 10 all time sales album. The Force Awakens is #5 all time box office gross. The fact that (a likely overstated) number of simpletons passionately show up at rallies is about as compelling as New Kids on the Block poster sales in the late 80s 

Except we choose to give an exceptional amount of power to the single winner of popular vote contest, then we decided to skew that vote to favor the winner of the common clay of the new west over general majorities. Then we did nothing to check that power when it proved to be dangerous and horrible. Then we ceded power to a retarded narcissistic who took us to the brink of facism, he barely ceded, we all ceded the threat was over and started whistling past our own graves.

This is our concern dude.

[Biff Tannen 45478]

8 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Ehh, Taylor Swift gets it.

Or we amend the Constitution and South Korean boy band BTS gets it, but they'll have to share amongst themselves because half of them are in the South Korean military right now, and the other half will be in the SK military within the next 6 months.

[Beau Vine 53965]

8 hours ago, Born to Run said:

12 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Reminder:

Refresh my memory, the only reminder is the lass on the left could take half my shit.

Congrats, you just selected Trump's lawyer.

[TwiceHorn 31184]

9 hours ago, CTC2 said:

Shit, if he is not tried, convicted, and jailed before the next election, it ain’t ever happening.  Even if Trump was as honest as they come, all those cases are abated once he wins and takes office, right?

Good question.  No one knows I don't think.

Given the way Trump has pushed executive privilege and lost at about every turn (I think at this point it's becoming more about the asshole asserting it than the doctrine itself), I'm thinking that perhaps not.  There is great policy concern with interfering with the performance of duties of the office, but there's an argument to be made that if the candidate is dumb enough and the people dumb enough to elect while subject to criminal trial, then that's what they'll get, chief executive or no.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/520/681/

Lots of ins, outs, what-have-yous.

[TwiceHorn 31184]

23 hours ago, Captainant said:

My point in all of this is: we don't have the luxury of waiting for years and years and years for the courts to play fuck fuck games with bullshit fabricated games of privilege this and that, as they have been doing with trumpco.

Then you are likely asking the legal system to do what it is not capable of doing.  By most accounts, after his imprisonment, Hitler changed the focus of his efforts toward legal political means rather than illegal, revolutionary means.

To date, the legal system has rejected almost every single assertion of privilege by Trumpco.  Privileges are frustrating, but they exist for a reason and I think it a dangerous game not to give them due legal analysis when asserted.

That's kind of what this all boils down to.  This America, man.  We have certain protections built into our system that benefit us all, to the extent we have the means and temerity to assert them (granted a lot don't and Trumpco has means and temerity in spades).  You seem to want to sidestep a lot of those, which would wind up hurting the little guy as much or more than shitheels like Trump.

One of the more important points I'm trying to make in all of this is that what you think you saw on TV or read in some twitter post and what you think you know does not constitute admissible evidence sufficient to prove a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. Or even a civil case to a preponderance. It takes a lot of trigger work to turn that suspicion into a convictable criminal case.  And you must absolutely do that trigger work before you indict.  And it is always preferable to do as much of that trigger work before filing a civil case as you can.  The State Bar of Texas apparently did not and to some extent didn't have that luxury, being forced into action by grievances.

[Pato del Muerto 52322]

2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

I think we all wish Metallica took over control of Russia in 1991. 
 

oops- zoomed in, that’s not them. pantera?  Point still stands about Metallica and Russia though. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Pato del Muerto

[Captainant 27311]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Given the way Trump has pushed executive privilege and lost at about every turn (I think at this point it's becoming more about the asshole asserting it than the doctrine itself), I'm thinking that perhaps not.  There is great policy concern with interfering with the performance of duties of the office, but there's an argument to be made that if the candidate is dumb enough and the people dumb enough to elect while subject to criminal trial, then that's what they'll get, chief executive or no.

Trump ONLY started to lose those exec privilege cases once he was out of office. And even then, it's taken TWO FUCKING YEARS AND MORE THAN AN ELECTION CYCLE to knock down the most hollow and facile claims. If trump makes it to candidacy or even office again, it's fucking game over.

12 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Then you are likely asking the legal system to do what it is not capable of doing.  By most accounts, after his imprisonment, Hitler changed the focus of his efforts toward legal political means rather than illegal, revolutionary means.

Yeah bud and you're still clearly missing the point. Voter suppression is ongoing. It's harder for people to vote today than it has ever been, despite all of our modern advances. That is the fascists of our day changing the focus of their efforts from revolutionary means to legal political means. 

14 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That's kind of what this all boils down to.  This America, man.  We have certain protections built into our system that benefit us all, to the extent we have the means and temerity to assert them (granted a lot don't and Trumpco has means and temerity in spades).  You seem to want to sidestep a lot of those, which would wind up hurting the little guy as much or more than shitheels like Trump.

You really should read a history book about how the fascists will use our legal system to protect themselves and elevate themselves into power, and then throw it out completely once they have achieved power. You need to pay more attention to the real world, not the legal world - because it's not just that people of lesser means don't assert their protections, it's that they often realistically cannot thanks to the variety of other non-legal factors that goes into the lives of normal, small people. 

They (the fascists) see the government and legal system not as a means or mechanism to further justice and liberty, but as a thing to be wielded against their targeted "other" groups. Despite all the care and caution and protection that you grant to them, they will do us and their targets no such favor. 

Jesus, it's like you've never faced a bully in your life before. 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20342]

[TwiceHorn 31184]

42 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Trump ONLY started to lose those exec privilege cases once he was out of office. And even then, it's taken TWO FUCKING YEARS AND MORE THAN AN ELECTION CYCLE to knock down the most hollow and facile claims. If trump makes it to candidacy or even office again, it's fucking game over.

Yeah bud and you're still clearly missing the point. Voter suppression is ongoing. It's harder for people to vote today than it has ever been, despite all of our modern advances. That is the fascists of our day changing the focus of their efforts from revolutionary means to legal political means. 

You really should read a history book about how the fascists will use our legal system to protect themselves and elevate themselves into power, and then throw it out completely once they have achieved power. You need to pay more attention to the real world, not the legal world - because it's not just that people of lesser means don't assert their protections, it's that they often realistically cannot thanks to the variety of other non-legal factors that goes into the lives of normal, small people. 

They (the fascists) see the government and legal system not as a means or mechanism to further justice and liberty, but as a thing to be wielded against their targeted "other" groups. Despite all the care and caution and protection that you grant to them, they will do us and their targets no such favor. 

Jesus, it's like you've never faced a bully in your life before. 

I'm not missing any point.  You are.

I confine my explanations to the legal system as it stands, I don't express opinions by and large on whether it's globally the right result or not.  Or whether it enables fascists or not.  You seem to think I do.

You can't change the legal system on the fly to make what was not illegal suddenly illegal.  Ex post facto clause out front should have told you.

Executive privilege is at its highest when the executive holds office.  You're going to see that it exists for a good reason for the remaining years of the Biden administration when it's used to fight off Gym Jordan and his merry band of idiots.

Edited March 29, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[Born to Run 6524]

Congrats, you just selected Trump's lawyer.

Dammit! I blame growing in Houston for my occasional affinity for ETBF.

[Underdog 28437]

12 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Ehh, Taylor Swift gets it.

I'm on board with that... 

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I think we all wish Metallica took over control of Russia in 1991. 
 

oops- zoomed in, that’s not them. pantera?  Point still stands about Metallica and Russia though. 

I thought it was RHCP. 

[Fastbreak 3948]

Let’s take a month off. No rush…

[Chewbacca 7727]

3 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Congrats, you just selected Trump's lawyer.

And he selected her on the same basis Trump did.

[Red Five 40593]

Just heard a clip I hadn’t heard yet from his Waco deal. “A lot of people think I’m the most innocent person ever. That’s what people are saying.”

Imagine listening to that and nodding along.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33825]

lol wut?

 

[Beau Vine 53965]

wtf?

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20342]

 

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Horn Under a Bad Sign

[TwiceHorn 31184]

4 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

 

 

 

 

Probably.

[YGIFS 19449]

100,000 dead from drag show?  Wow.  We should do something about that.  

I mean if that's just from drag shows, how many die at shows/movies/concerts/theaters overall?  Say 1 in 100 performances nationwide is a drag show, that means we're losing 10mm people overall just from the performing arts?  Somebody has got to put a stop to this.  Our entire population will be completely gone by the time "Top Gun Maverick: The Musical" is off Broadway.