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What now? The Proud Boys feel like Trump has betrayed them and stabbed them in the back? And they're abandoning him?

Even icons of the alt-right feel swindled by Trump now. Who would've ever guessed it?

‘A Total Failure’: The Proud Boys Now Mock Trump
Members of the far-right group, who were among Donald Trump’s staunchest fans, are calling him “weak” as more of them were charged for storming the U.S. Capitol.

After the presidential election last year, the Proud Boys, a far-right group, declared its undying loyalty to President Trump.

In a Nov. 8 post in a private channel of the messaging app Telegram, the group urged its followers to attend protests against an election that it said had been fraudulently stolen from Mr. Trump. “Hail Emperor Trump,” the Proud Boys wrote.

But by this week, the group’s attitude toward Mr. Trump had changed. “Trump will go down as a total failure,” the Proud Boys said in the same Telegram channel on Monday.

As Mr. Trump departed the White House on Wednesday, the Proud Boys, once among his staunchest supporters, have also started leaving his side. In dozens of conversations on social media sites like Gab and Telegram, members of the group have begun calling Mr. Trump a “shill” and “extraordinarily weak,” according to messages reviewed by The New York Times. They have also urged supporters to stop attending rallies and protests held for Mr. Trump or the Republican Party.

The comments are a startling turn for the Proud Boys, which for years had backed Mr. Trump and promoted political violence. Led by Enrique Tarrio, many of its thousands of members were such die-hard fans of Mr. Trump that they offered to serve as his private militia and celebrated after he told them in a presidential debate last year to “stand back and stand by.” On Jan. 6, some Proud Boys members stormed the U.S. Capitol.

But since then, discontent with Mr. Trump, who later condemned the violence, has boiled over. On social media, Proud Boys participants have complained about his willingness to leave office and said his disavowal of the Capitol rampage was an act of betrayal. And Mr. Trump, cut off on Facebook and Twitter, has been unable to talk directly to them to soothe their concerns or issue new rallying cries.

The Proud Boys’ anger toward Mr. Trump has heightened after he did nothing to help those in the group who face legal action for the Capitol violence. On Wednesday, a Proud Boy leader, Joseph Biggs, 37, was arrested in Florida and charged with unlawful entry and corruptly obstructing an official proceeding in the riot. At least four other members of the group also face charges stemming from the attack.

“When Trump told them that if he left office, America would fall into an abyss, they believed him,” Arieh Kovler, a political consultant and independent researcher in Israel who studies the far right, said of the Proud Boys. “Now that he has left office, they believe he has both surrendered and failed to do his patriotic duty.”

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Posted

I still think a handful of Van Buren Boys could take this pack of assclowns.  

Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 2:08 AM, Hookah Horns said:

Not that dumb of a question. Practically speaking, it's a party thing. They're not going to nominate someone who can't hold the office. But if they did, and he somehow won, the courts would enjoin him from getting transition funds etc. and from taking office. 

It's real and doesn't really need to be tested. It's black letter law. 

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There’s been at least one op Ed that argues only a sitting President can be tried by the senate. I know a couple of lower level executive branch members were tried and convicted after leaving their positions but apparently an argument can be made this does not apply to the presidency. Probably one of those things that would get settled only if he gets convicted and then mounts a legitimate campaign (legitimate meaning wins the Republican nomination or is able to get on the ballot in enough states to hamstring the Republican nominee in the general)

Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 12:45 AM, Francisco 2.0 said:

You know, most people, after losing the Presidency, would go to their home, maybe see some family and supporters.  Kick off the shoes, maybe have 2 scoops.

And then there is Trump.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/exiled-trump-already-fixated-on-whos-blocking-a-comeback?ref=home?ref=home

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All he had to do was chill in Mar-a-Lago for a month or so, let the impeachment stuff blow over.  Get Melania dancing around in her housemaid outfit.

But no, immediately he had to start talking about running in 2024, which means Turtle is making phone calls to make sure that the impeachment will succeed.

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Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 2:43 AM, bolverk said:

What now? The Proud Boys feel like Trump has betrayed them and stabbed them in the back? And they're abandoning him?

Even icons of the alt-right feel swindled by Trump now. Who would've ever guessed it?

‘A Total Failure’: The Proud Boys Now Mock Trump
Members of the far-right group, who were among Donald Trump’s staunchest fans, are calling him “weak” as more of them were charged for storming the U.S. Capitol.

After the presidential election last year, the Proud Boys, a far-right group, declared its undying loyalty to President Trump.

In a Nov. 8 post in a private channel of the messaging app Telegram, the group urged its followers to attend protests against an election that it said had been fraudulently stolen from Mr. Trump. “Hail Emperor Trump,” the Proud Boys wrote.

But by this week, the group’s attitude toward Mr. Trump had changed. “Trump will go down as a total failure,” the Proud Boys said in the same Telegram channel on Monday.

As Mr. Trump departed the White House on Wednesday, the Proud Boys, once among his staunchest supporters, have also started leaving his side. In dozens of conversations on social media sites like Gab and Telegram, members of the group have begun calling Mr. Trump a “shill” and “extraordinarily weak,” according to messages reviewed by The New York Times. They have also urged supporters to stop attending rallies and protests held for Mr. Trump or the Republican Party.

The comments are a startling turn for the Proud Boys, which for years had backed Mr. Trump and promoted political violence. Led by Enrique Tarrio, many of its thousands of members were such die-hard fans of Mr. Trump that they offered to serve as his private militia and celebrated after he told them in a presidential debate last year to “stand back and stand by.” On Jan. 6, some Proud Boys members stormed the U.S. Capitol.

But since then, discontent with Mr. Trump, who later condemned the violence, has boiled over. On social media, Proud Boys participants have complained about his willingness to leave office and said his disavowal of the Capitol rampage was an act of betrayal. And Mr. Trump, cut off on Facebook and Twitter, has been unable to talk directly to them to soothe their concerns or issue new rallying cries.

The Proud Boys’ anger toward Mr. Trump has heightened after he did nothing to help those in the group who face legal action for the Capitol violence. On Wednesday, a Proud Boy leader, Joseph Biggs, 37, was arrested in Florida and charged with unlawful entry and corruptly obstructing an official proceeding in the riot. At least four other members of the group also face charges stemming from the attack.

“When Trump told them that if he left office, America would fall into an abyss, they believed him,” Arieh Kovler, a political consultant and independent researcher in Israel who studies the far right, said of the Proud Boys. “Now that he has left office, they believe he has both surrendered and failed to do his patriotic duty.”

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Makes me curious as to how this will shake out with Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, and Flynn. The PB were providing 'security' for Roger and in turn, he gave them more notoriety. He also gave them cover but he was more aligned with the 'academic' crowd--the Young Republicans and America First groups that have been attempting to make aggressive inroads on campuses nationwide. Manafort is going to be somewhat preoccupied with legal stuff unless his lawyer is able to work around the attempts to bring Manafort up on fraud charges. Flynn was deep into the Q grift and now that is perhaps fizzling out.

Posted (edited)
  On 1/21/2021 at 1:57 AM, henrygandorf said:

ok so i need some dumb question amnesty.  first off, i don't think they'll convict in the senate/keep him from running again.  i also think it's best for the dems to allow him to run again, as it further splinters the party.  they need a clean break to move on, and we need a messy break to fuck with them for a decade.

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I don't think your question is dumb, but I just want to emphasize what I've bolded.  This is what terrifies me the most, as someone dissatisfied and disillusioned by both of the major (and therefore de facto only) parties.

We've just dodged (or more truthfully, been grazed by) a major bullet.  This is not the time to press advantages, it's the time to quash existential threats to our nation and the rule of law.  This is an inflection point.  It's time for both parties to slam the door on the road to totalitarianism, because it doesn't care if it takes the left lane or the right.

D's have talked a good game that I hope they will live up to.  R's have been feckless cucks up until 1/6, which has given me some glimmer of hope.

But it's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart.

Edited by Damor
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Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 2:53 AM, Sawbonz said:

There’s been at least one op Ed that argues only a sitting President can be tried by the senate. I know a couple of lower level executive branch members were tried and convicted after leaving their positions but apparently an argument can be made this does not apply to the presidency. Probably one of those things that would get settled only if he gets convicted and then mounts a legitimate campaign (legitimate meaning wins the Republican nomination or is able to get on the ballot in enough states to hamstring the Republican nominee in the general)

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I'll be happy when the phrase, "it's an open legal question" leaves the popular lexicon.

Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 2:53 AM, Sawbonz said:

There’s been at least one op Ed that argues only a sitting President can be tried by the senate. I know a couple of lower level executive branch members were tried and convicted after leaving their positions but apparently an argument can be made this does not apply to the presidency. Probably one of those things that would get settled only if he gets convicted and then mounts a legitimate campaign (legitimate meaning wins the Republican nomination or is able to get on the ballot in enough states to hamstring the Republican nominee in the general)

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I didn't know people were making this argument. It makes no sense to me that the founders would give the senate the power to ban someone from holding office but intend for it to be avoidable simply by resigning prior to the vote.

It makes even less sense when you consider that the president is necessarily already removed from office (by impeachment conviction) at the time the senate votes on the ban. 

The argument would make slightly more sense to me if the impeachment by the House came after the expiration of the president's term, which obviously isn't the case here. 

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Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 3:39 AM, HornOnTheBayou said:

I See You Reaction GIF by swerk - Find & Share on GIPHY

I would be careful putting all of my eggs into the "The Republicans will definitely do the right thing" basket.

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Well, I didn't mean they wouldn't because it would be the right thing to do. I meant because it would be against their own interest. But I suppose you might be saying you can't count on them to act in their own best interest, either, which I won't argue. 

Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 4:34 AM, Dr. Beeper said:

I find the notion of him running again and having any success laughable. Then again he did leave with a 34% approval rating - which is low - but I’m surprised it’s not in the low single digits. 

Regardless, I don’t think this fat old retard has enough stamina for this shit anymore. I don’t think he’s a threat in the least. Regardless, if I’m a Republican senator, I’m convincing. Because gandorf is right - he will always have the retard contingent to splinter the party. 

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I had the same thought about stamina recently, but then I remembered he hardly did any actual work during his term and primarily golfed, watched cable news, and tweeted. 

Hopefully he'll do us all a favor and die before 2024. 

Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 4:32 AM, Hookah Horns said:

I didn't know people were making this argument. It makes no sense to me that the founders would give the senate the power to ban someone from holding office but intend for it to be avoidable simply by resigning prior to the vote.

It makes even less sense when you consider that the president is necessarily already removed from office (by impeachment conviction) at the time the senate votes on the ban. 

The argument would make slightly more sense to me if the impeachment by the House came after the expiration of the president's term, which obviously isn't the case here. 

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/12/once-trump-leaves-office-senate-cant-hold-an-impeachment-trial/

Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 4:52 AM, Sawbonz said:
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Thanks. His reasoning and argument are remarkably dumb and flimsy, especially for a former federal appellate judge with a strong rep for analysis (per wiki). 

His argument is: the constitution allows for two punishments following impeachment and conviction, and one of those isn't applicable in this situation, therefore it's unconstitutional to hold a trial here.

His unstated premise is that the constitution conditions the ban punishment on the execution of the removal from office punishment. But the constitution says no such thing. 

I'd like to see what he'd say to what I wrote above about avoiding the ban punishment by simply resigning. There's just no way that's what the founders intended. 

Posted
  On 1/20/2021 at 11:00 PM, Goredho said:
The saddest part of the Trump presidency is that he identified a segment of American society that was really hurting and exploited them for his political and monetary gain.  They believed in and loved him, because he was the only person to appear to give a shit about them in a long time.  They loved him so much, they went so far as to risk their freedom for him in a violent insurrection.  And when it was time for him to have their back, he just abandoned them.

I don't know what to say to those people other than this:  Now you kinda, sorta know what a Syrian Kurd feels like.

I’m straight up stealing this because I know a lot of people who need to hear it.
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Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 2:30 AM, Chooky said:

71wuqUdNEjL._AC_SX466_.jpg

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  On 1/21/2021 at 5:13 AM, Hookah Horns said:

Thanks. His reasoning and argument are remarkably dumb and flimsy, especially for a former federal appellate judge with a strong rep for analysis (per wiki). 

His argument is: the constitution allows for two punishments following impeachment and conviction, and one of those isn't applicable in this situation, therefore it's unconstitutional to hold a trial here.

His unstated premise is that the constitution conditions the ban punishment on the execution of the removal from office punishment. But the constitution says no such thing. 

I'd like to see what he'd say to what I wrote above about avoiding the ban punishment by simply resigning. There's just no way that's what the founders intended. 

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There is precedent for the trail to come after the person has left office.

Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 5:18 AM, TexasEd said:

 

There is precedent for the trail to come after the person has left office.

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Yeah and that op-ed author doesn't even attempt to distinguish those cases from this one. SCOTUS wouldn't be bound by the existence of those trials, but their existence is just two more points in favor of the rather obvious conclusion that the power to convict isn't limited to incumbents. 

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Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 4:40 AM, Hookah Horns said:

I had the same thought about stamina recently, but then I remembered he hardly did any actual work during his term and primarily golfed, watched cable news, and tweeted. 

Hopefully he'll do us all a favor and die before 2024. 

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More than 34,000 tweets over the four years he was president. That's more than 23 per day.  He was positively HugoStiglitzian. 

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Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 2:56 AM, Mrs Whiggins said:

Makes me curious as to how this will shake out with Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, and Flynn. The PB were providing 'security' for Roger and in turn, he gave them more notoriety. He also gave them cover but he was more aligned with the 'academic' crowd--the Young Republicans and America First groups that have been attempting to make aggressive inroads on campuses nationwide. Manafort is going to be somewhat preoccupied with legal stuff unless his lawyer is able to work around the attempts to bring Manafort up on fraud charges. Flynn was deep into the Q grift and now that is perhaps fizzling out.

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Posted

 

  On 1/21/2021 at 1:57 AM, henrygandorf said:

ok so i need some dumb question amnesty.  first off, i don't think they'll convict in the senate/keep him from running again.  i also think it's best for the dems to allow him to run again, as it further splinters the party.  they need a clean break to move on, and we need a messy break to fuck with them for a decade.

so that said, let's say they hold the senate trial, they convict, and they prohibit him from holding future office (running?  holding?).

in that case, let's say trump does what he always does, and says, "fuck you, i'm going to do it anyway because there's no way to stop me."  and then he announces that he's running, and starts doing rallies and fundraisers, etc.  at what point does something/someone stop him?  what are the legal means behind it?  is it a party thing?  the gop says fuck off?  what if he rolls with his new patriot party or some nonsense? 

it seems kinda like the pardon situation.  we won't know if it's real unless it's tested.

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  On 1/21/2021 at 2:53 AM, Sawbonz said:

There’s been at least one op Ed that argues only a sitting President can be tried by the senate. I know a couple of lower level executive branch members were tried and convicted after leaving their positions but apparently an argument can be made this does not apply to the presidency. Probably one of those things that would get settled only if he gets convicted and then mounts a legitimate campaign (legitimate meaning wins the Republican nomination or is able to get on the ballot in enough states to hamstring the Republican nominee in the general)

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Yeah, I think it gets squashed at the state level.  A bit like Kanye did this last cycle.    Where the hell has he been anyway?   He got his buds pardons and he's left town?

Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 5:13 AM, Hookah Horns said:

Thanks. His reasoning and argument are remarkably dumb and flimsy, especially for a former federal appellate judge with a strong rep for analysis (per wiki). 

His argument is: the constitution allows for two punishments following impeachment and conviction, and one of those isn't applicable in this situation, therefore it's unconstitutional to hold a trial here.

His unstated premise is that the constitution conditions the ban punishment on the execution of the removal from office punishment. But the constitution says no such thing. 

I'd like to see what he'd say to what I wrote above about avoiding the ban punishment by simply resigning. There's just no way that's what the founders intended. 

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Here is Prof. Vladek's response:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/opinion/trump-impeachment-senate.html

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Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 10:52 AM, Bookman said:
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Thanks for sharing that, hadn't seen it. He made the same points I have.

I'm a bit surprised he suggests that a conviction would divest dotard of his pension and other benefits (excluding SS protection). The way the statute is written -- it denies those entitlements to presidents removed from office via impeachment rather than presidents convicted -- it's pretty clear to me that the conviction coming after the expiration of his term wouldn't affect them. That should be amended before his conviction. 😈

Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 11:23 AM, Hookah Horns said:

Thanks for sharing that, hadn't seen it. He made the same points I have.

I'm a bit surprised he suggests that a conviction would divest dotard of his pension and other benefits (excluding SS protection). The way the statute is written -- it denies those entitlements to presidents removed from office via impeachment rather than presidents convicted -- it's pretty clear to me that the conviction coming after the expiration of his term wouldn't affect them. That should be amended before his conviction. 😈

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He raises the issue. I'm no expert but it seems to me there's a good policy reason to read the statute broadly in this case.

Posted (edited)
  On 1/21/2021 at 2:43 AM, bolverk said:

What now? The Proud Boys feel like Trump has betrayed them and stabbed them in the back? And they're abandoning him?

Even icons of the alt-right feel swindled by Trump now. Who would've ever guessed it?

‘A Total Failure’: The Proud Boys Now Mock Trump
Members of the far-right group, who were among Donald Trump’s staunchest fans, are calling him “weak” as more of them were charged for storming the U.S. Capitol.

After the presidential election last year, the Proud Boys, a far-right group, declared its undying loyalty to President Trump.

In a Nov. 8 post in a private channel of the messaging app Telegram, the group urged its followers to attend protests against an election that it said had been fraudulently stolen from Mr. Trump. “Hail Emperor Trump,” the Proud Boys wrote.

But by this week, the group’s attitude toward Mr. Trump had changed. “Trump will go down as a total failure,” the Proud Boys said in the same Telegram channel on Monday.

As Mr. Trump departed the White House on Wednesday, the Proud Boys, once among his staunchest supporters, have also started leaving his side. In dozens of conversations on social media sites like Gab and Telegram, members of the group have begun calling Mr. Trump a “shill” and “extraordinarily weak,” according to messages reviewed by The New York Times. They have also urged supporters to stop attending rallies and protests held for Mr. Trump or the Republican Party.

The comments are a startling turn for the Proud Boys, which for years had backed Mr. Trump and promoted political violence. Led by Enrique Tarrio, many of its thousands of members were such die-hard fans of Mr. Trump that they offered to serve as his private militia and celebrated after he told them in a presidential debate last year to “stand back and stand by.” On Jan. 6, some Proud Boys members stormed the U.S. Capitol.

But since then, discontent with Mr. Trump, who later condemned the violence, has boiled over. On social media, Proud Boys participants have complained about his willingness to leave office and said his disavowal of the Capitol rampage was an act of betrayal. And Mr. Trump, cut off on Facebook and Twitter, has been unable to talk directly to them to soothe their concerns or issue new rallying cries.

The Proud Boys’ anger toward Mr. Trump has heightened after he did nothing to help those in the group who face legal action for the Capitol violence. On Wednesday, a Proud Boy leader, Joseph Biggs, 37, was arrested in Florida and charged with unlawful entry and corruptly obstructing an official proceeding in the riot. At least four other members of the group also face charges stemming from the attack.

“When Trump told them that if he left office, America would fall into an abyss, they believed him,” Arieh Kovler, a political consultant and independent researcher in Israel who studies the far right, said of the Proud Boys. “Now that he has left office, they believe he has both surrendered and failed to do his patriotic duty.”

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This is fucking hilarious. My cockles be warm. 

Edited by Hookah Horns
Posted

I now read this thread title in Bob Saget’s voice from the opening narration to “How I Met Your Mother.”

”Kids, I’m going to tell you an incredible story...”

Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 2:08 AM, Hookah Horns said:

Not that dumb of a question. Practically speaking, it's a party thing. They're not going to nominate someone who can't hold the office. But if they did, and he somehow won, the courts would enjoin him from getting transition funds etc. and from taking office. 

It's real and doesn't really need to be tested. It's black letter law. 

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It will still be tested.  The argument that he was convicted out of office takes it out of the black letter law scenario.

The GOP will refuse to let him be a candidate and he or the GOP will sue. 

Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 2:12 AM, Aqua Buddha said:

She's a green card whore who married a declining American celebrity when she was on the downside of her model/pron career.  Fucked her families way to America.

Her best bet now is Trump dies soon and she can be a trophy bride to some Russian oligarch or a Saudi sheik.  No legit American billionaire would touch that trash.

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This is terrible and you should feel terrible.

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Posted

I am had the absolute best morning in years. I woke up this morning, read the news and there wasn't a single mention of any stupid shit that trump tweeted about. Normalcy feels great.

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Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 1:48 PM, TwiceHorn said:

It will still be tested.  The argument that he was convicted out of office takes it out of the black letter law scenario.

The GOP will refuse to let him be a candidate and he or the GOP will sue. 

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In any case it's a golden grift opportunity ripe for dotard. Raise millions from the deplorables before he's officially forced off the ballot due to being DQed or simply decides to drop out, spend almost nothing, and pocket it all. 

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Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 1:59 PM, crash_davis said:

I am had the absolute best morning in years. I woke up this morning, read the news and there wasn't a single mention of any stupid shit that trump tweeted about. Normalcy feels great.

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Whatever you do, don't read Cruz's Paris accord tweet. It appears he's going to keep going all-in on shamelessly channeling his orange daddy. 

Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 1:29 AM, Brisketexan said:


He’s not a good dude. Ever. It’s Just that in a rare case, our goals may intersect.

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I breathe air.   Mitch breathes air.   

I walk on two feet and have opposable thumbs.    Mitch walks on two feet and has opposable thumbs.

Those makes us humans.   And the similarities end there.

Because I have a soul, a conscience a sense of decency and a desire to others succeed.  Mitch does not.  

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Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 1:48 PM, TwiceHorn said:

It will still be tested.  The argument that he was convicted out of office takes it out of the black letter law scenario.

The GOP will refuse to let him be a candidate and he or the GOP will sue. 

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Maybe he will do us all a favor and let his newfound gop hatred drive him to the stupid decision of running as an independent. 

Posted
  On 1/21/2021 at 4:25 PM, Macanudo said:

I breathe air.   Mitch breathes air.   

I walk on two feet and have opposable thumbs.    Mitch walks on two feet and has opposable thumbs.

Those makes us humans.   And the similarities end there.

Because I have a soul, a conscience a sense of decency and a desire to others succeed.  Mitch does not.  

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You overestimate your soul, conscience, and sense of decency, methinks.

Posted

SIAP, but this is just a wonderful send off; not the soft slow lingering kiss of your lover before she leaves the room, but the shove out the door, kick in the pants, suitcase thrown down the stairs good riddance. More at the link...

 

  Quote

 

"Well, that sucked.

Memo to MAGA and all its myriad fellow-travelers: Maybe Death of a Salesman as presented by Leni Riefenstahl just wasn’t the show Americans were dying to tune into this season."

 

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