Tom Herman Fired as UT Football Coach

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

5 minutes ago, CurlyDumps said:

Comparing Charlie's and Herman's losses in their first three years proves unequivocally how much worse Charlie really was.

Charlie: 16-21

Losses by 10+ points: 11

Losses by 20+ points: 5

Losses by 30+ points: 4

Shutouts: 2 

--------------------------------

Herman: 25-15

Losses by 10+: 4

Losses by 20+: 0

Shutouts: 0

 

You can't "but Mack" that.

Meh....I chalk that up to rosters. Before his first season, Scipio wrote that the two things we could not afford to have happen were injuries to Ash and Espinosa, and so of course both of them immediately were lost forever by game 2. Had they remained healthy, we win eight or nine that year, recruiting would have been even better than it was Malikmas year, and we probably plateau around nine or ten wins because of talent. Which is what we did under Mack, until A) he managed to land VY; and B) he belatedly decided to let VY be VY. 

It is impossible to prove how bad things would have gotten under Mack. I remember some of the hardcore recruitniks on here kept tabs on the guys Mack was pursuing and/or Strong cut ties with and it was fucking horrendous. Bust after bust after bust. 

So Strong prevented further decline. It is impossible to show exactly how much Strong did to turn around the talent level, but consider this -- how horrible would we have been without Poona Ford anchoring the D for the last two years of his time on the 40? That guy was not on Mack's radar, or anyone else's really. Charlie does have a good eye for talent. 

The shit Mack left behind was insurmountable. You can't win with no offensive line, FCS (at best) QBs (or a true frosh like Buechele), and freshman and soph DBs "anchored" by veteran leaders like Dylan Haines. Nobody can. Those problems take years to solve, as we see now at Florida State. 

 

[closetojumping 62738]

20 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

My handle gives me away as a Charlie apologist, and his tenure at USF ultimately proved me wrong, but I still think, sad as it is to say, that he was a better coach than Herman. Do you really think Herman would have won more than six games with Tyrone Swoopes at QB and that absolute dogshit offensive line we had? As for the idea that he raised the talent level, idk know about that. Bijan is the only player obviously better than any Charlie brought in. The fact is, Charlie really did leave the program in slightly better shape than what Mack left him with. A better human being could have built on it and succeeded, but he was just such an arrogant dick, he just didn't have it in him.  I really don't think he will ever succeed anywhere else. His psychological problems are incurable. Narcissists don't get better; they just dig in and double down. 

 

15 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Mack left behind a Florida State / Jimbo Fisher dumpster fire -- no offensive line or defensive backs or QBs, after Ash. Graveyard of coaches. As bad as Charlie was, Herman would have been worse, if for no other reason than he would have lost the locker room on top of all the other shit we had to deal with. 

 

4 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Oh, I know full well he will be remembered that way, but as bad as he was, given the contexts they both coached in, I think Herman was even worse. Clone the rosters and have them duke it out; it would be a regard fight but I think Strong would go 6-4 in a ten-game schedule, because Charlie's clones would like him more. We tend to overmagnify Strong's gameday blunders and underestimate Herman's, like his almost never successful key fourth-down attempts at conversions, taking points off the board constantly, and more importantly, he'd be playing the Kyle Porter clone while Strong would be playing the Chris Warren one.  

Hahahahahahahaha!!!! It's like fucking clockwork with your idiotic ass. Go write love letters to Chuckles offline, dipshit. Spare the board from your silly, insipid, weak equivocating for a fucking joke of a coach. We don't owe that fucking idiot one iota of loyalty or apology and yet you show up every time his name is mentioned to tear at your clothes and sob in agony for his dumb ass. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

3 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

 

 

Hahahahahahahaha!!!! It's like fucking clockwork with your idiotic ass. Go write love letters to Chuckles offline, dipshit. Spare the board from your silly, insipid, weak equivocating for a fucking joke of a coach. We don't owe that fucking idiot one iota of loyalty or apology and yet you show up every time his name is mentioned to tear at your clothes and sob in agony for his dumb ass. 

Love you too, amigo.

But don't you have a pandemic to deny?

[texifornia 56974]

4 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Meh....I chalk that up to rosters. Before his first season, Scipio wrote that the two things we could not afford to have happen were injuries to Ash and Espinosa, and so of course both of them immediately were lost forever by game 2. Had they remained healthy, we win eight or nine that year, recruiting would have been even better than it was Malikmas year, and we probably plateau around nine or ten wins because of talent. Which is what we did under Mack, until A) he managed to land VY; and B) he belatedly decided to let VY be VY. 

It is impossible to prove how bad things would have gotten under Mack. I remember some of the hardcore recruitniks on here kept tabs on the guys Mack was pursuing and/or Strong cut ties with and it was fucking horrendous. Bust after bust after bust. 

So Strong prevented further decline. It is impossible to show exactly how much Strong did to turn around the talent level, but consider this -- how horrible would we have been without Poona Ford anchoring the D for the last two years of his time on the 40? That guy was not on Mack's radar, or anyone else's really. Charlie does have a good eye for talent. 

The shit Mack left behind was insurmountable. You can't win with no offensive line, FCS (at best) QBs (or a true frosh like Buechele), and freshman and soph DBs "anchored" by veteran leaders like Dylan Haines. Nobody can. Those problems take years to solve, as we see now at Florida State. 

 

Strong is a powerfully shitty head coach, man. There's so many better people to carry water for.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

I am not carrying water for him. I just think Herman and late Mack were even worse. Late Mack was worst of all. He just fucking quit. Herman and Strong were failures for different reasons but both failed. 

[maninblack 7974]

56 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

Michelle would divorce him in a heartbeat if he told her they are moving to Montana.... 

Bozeman is amazing

[closetohumping 17442]

37 minutes ago, RGBIII said:

Know any Montana based jewelry designers? 

[RGBIII 22840]

9 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I am not carrying water for him. I just think Herman and late Mack were even worse. Late Mack was worst of all. He just fucking quit. Herman and Strong were failures for different reasons but both failed. 

[TrashMaster G 17558]

1 hour ago, Laxtonto said:

Michelle would divorce him in a heartbeat if he told her they are moving to Montana.... 

$15 mil would go a looonnnnngggg way in Bozeman.

31 minutes ago, CBHorn said:

I don't remember how that happen.  Did they win or lose the toss?  As a football official, I would ask a captain if he meant defer (assuming he one the toss).  If the other team deferred, I will still ask him if he was sure.  Heck, most of them time, I ask the coach on the sideline before the toss what he wants if he wins just so some kid doesn't get his ass chewed out for being nervous.

You will never work in the Big XII.

[perfectchaos007 6643]

Tom and his wife might listen to a UCF job offer

[Laxtonto 12080]

21 minutes ago, maninblack said:

Bozeman is amazing

Bozeman might be, but there is only so much you in Bozeman during the winter...  Outside of Billings, what do you expect her to do to show off? I am not guessing she is the Yellowstone hiking type...

 

It would be a significant social circle downgrade and once again, why put up with his shit to be locked in with his ass all winter?

Edited January 27, 2021 by Laxtonto

[UncleSonny 6572]

10 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

The shit Mack left behind was insurmountable. You can't win with no offensive line, FCS (at best) QBs (or a true frosh like Buechele), and freshman and soph DBs "anchored" by veteran leaders like Dylan Haines. Nobody can. Those problems take years to solve, as we see now at Florida State. 

What on earth are you talking about? The first year when he went 6-7 (after Mack had won 8 games) he inherited a defense with Jordan Hicks, Malcom Brown, Diggs, Hassan Ridgeway, Mykkele Thompson, Duke Thomas and Adrian Colbert. On offense he Malcolm Brown, Marcus Johnson, Jaxon Shipley, Swaim. That roster had lots of holes but plenty of talent to work with including several guys that are drawing NFL pensions. 

Charlie had a worse record than the Texas coach before him and the Texas coach after him. He took over a USF program that won 11 games before he got there and turned them into a to 4 win team in 3 years. All available evidence shows he's a terrible head coach, you just wish it wasn't the case.

[Rhinotx 499]

49 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

You know, I've spoken to Vance Bedford at length on the phone on several occasions, and I am a bigger Strong apologist than he is. I am not even joking. It's a sickness. 

What did Vance think the issue was? 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 minute ago, Rhinotx said:

What did Vance think the issue was? 

We didn't get to that, yet, but his position is "You lose to Kansas, your ass is getting fired, and deservedly so."

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

But again, Herman almost outdid Charlie there. With better talent and at home, he needed a last second FG to beat Kansas. 

[CurlyDumps 4471]

13 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Meh....I chalk that up to rosters.

 

What Charlie inherited:

2011: #4 recruiting class, 9-4 record

2012: #2 recruiting class, 8-5 record

2013: #17 recruiting class, 8-5 record

Avg. class ranking: 7.67

Average wins/season: 8.3

 

What Charlie produced and Herman inherited:

2014: #17 recruiting class, 5-7 record

2015: #10 recruiting class, 6-7 record

2016: #7 recruiting class, 5-7 record

Avg. class ranking: 11.3

Avg. wins/season:  5.3

 

Your claims of Charlie inheriting some "insurmountable" rebuild  and "turning around the talent level" is Charlie Strong fan fiction. Co-written by Vance Bedford, apparently.

You should recap those phone calls for us.

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

7 minutes ago, UncleSonny said:

What on earth are you talking about? The first year when he went 6-7 (after Mack had won 8 games) he inherited a defense with Jordan Hicks, Malcom Brown, Diggs, Hassan Ridgeway, Mykkele Thompson, Duke Thomas and Adrian Colbert. On offense he Malcolm Brown, Marcus Johnson, Jaxon Shipley, Swaim. That roster had lots of holes but plenty of talent to work with including several guys that are drawing NFL pensions. 

Charlie had a worse record than the Texas coach before him and the Texas coach after him. He took over a USF program that won 11 games before he got there and turned them into a to 4 win team in 3 years. All available evidence shows he's a terrible head coach, you just wish it wasn't the case.

Again, no QB, and no OL.

And the D played pretty well that first year, when he had decent talent on that side of the ball. Consensus at the time was that Mykkele Thompson had been a bust until he was coached up by Strong. 

Malcolm Brown was still dinged up; there was no indication that year he was going to be multi-year pro. He just seemed like another bust at the time. Swaim was hurt a lot too. Marcus Johnson got better under Strong and especially under Uncle Rico, who taught him to hold as a downfield blocker. 

And yet again, no QB and no OL. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

6 minutes ago, CurlyDumps said:

What Charlie inherited:

2011: #4 recruiting class, 9-4 record

2012: #2 recruiting class, 8-5 record

2013: #17 recruiting class, 8-5 record

Avg. class ranking: 7.67

Average wins/season: 8.3

 

What Charlie produced and Herman inherited:

2014: #17 recruiting class, 5-7 record

2015: #10 recruiting class, 6-7 record

2016: #7 recruiting class, 5-7 record

Avg. class ranking: 11.3

Avg. wins/season:  5.3

 

Your claims of Charlie inheriting some "insurmountable" rebuild  and "turning around the talent level" is Charlie Strong fan fiction. Co-written by Vance Bedford, apparently.

You should recap those phone calls for us.

 

I am so not interested in recruiting class rankings. I am more interested in recruiting class outputs, as in guys with real careers in the NFL. 

You have criticism and airy-fairy predictions on the one hand and reality on the other. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by MaybeACoordinator

[CowtownHorn 5126]

59 minutes ago, CurlyDumps said:

Comparing Charlie's and Herman's losses in their first three years proves unequivocally how much worse Charlie really was.

Charlie: 16-21

Losses by 10+ points: 11

Losses by 20+ points: 5

Losses by 30+ points: 4

Shutouts: 2 

--------------------------------

Herman: 25-15

Losses by 10+: 4

Losses by 20+: 0

Shutouts: 0

 

You can't "but Mack" that.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Maybe they still do it, but DCTF used to do retrospective critiques of recruiting classes. Almost never did the top-rated recruiting classes crush the lower ones; exceptions in our favor were classes from our recruiting peak, roughly from 1998-2002. Top-rated predictions, top results. Shit got sketchy after that; Colt, Shipley, Quan, Jamaal and Orakpo carried the team through 2009, and then it was off a cliff. Top rated classes, shitty results. 

[UncleSonny 6572]

8 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

You have criticism and airy-fairy predictions on the one hand and reality on the other. 

Dude....

16 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Graveyard of coaches. As bad as Charlie was, Herman would have been worse, if for no other reason than he would have lost the locker room on top of all the other shit we had to deal with. 

5 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Oh, I know full well he will be remembered that way, but as bad as he was, given the contexts they both coached in, I think Herman was even worse. Clone the rosters and have them duke it out; it would be a regard fight but I think Strong would go 6-4 in a ten-game schedule, because Charlie's clones would like him more. 

46 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Had they remained healthy, we win eight or nine that year, recruiting would have been even better than it was Malikmas year, and we probably plateau around nine or ten wins because of talent.

 

 

 

[UncleSonny 6572]

I don't know why this is making me insane but it is. I really didn't know there were "Charlie Strong, actually not that bad!" takes out there.

[GTX Horn 1708]

Herman’s teams played down to competition, but we never got our asses completely handed to us like we did in the Texas Bowl against Arkansas, or the blowout losses against TCU, Notre Dame, and Iowa State in 2015 (just to name a few). Herman may not be our standard, but he’s miles better than Charlie Strong. This shouldn’t even be a debate. It’s really not even close.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Eh, okay, I'll give up. But I am not saying Strong was a good coach. I just think Herman and dregs Mack were even worse. I think Sark will be great. I didn't like the hire for a couple of hours but I came around and I am very optimistic about the program. I think that unlike Herman, he will supplement what his predecessor left him, and build a great team, and I think we will be very good next year, verging on great the following year, and "back" by year three. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by MaybeACoordinator

[texifornia 56974]

7 minutes ago, GTX Horn said:

Herman’s teams played down to competition, but we never got our asses completely handed to us like we did in the Texas Bowl against Arkansas, or the blowout losses against TCU, Notre Dame, and Iowa State in 2015 (just to name a few). Herman may not be our standard, but he’s miles better than Charlie Strong. This shouldn’t even be a debate. It’s really not even close.

It's more "hobo yelling at commuters on a street corner about 5G towers" than a debate with two sides at this point.

Edited January 27, 2021 by texifornia

[DanTheHorn 4925]

17 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I am so not interested in recruiting class rankings. I am more interested in recruiting class outputs, as in guys with real careers in the NFL. 

You have criticism and airy-fairy predictions on the one hand and reality on the other. 

Hmm if only player development had something to do with coaching. Bottom line the outputs were Charlie's and Tom's responsibility. Your argument is a fail.

[General Specific 3262]

Meh....I chalk that up to rosters. Before his first season, Scipio wrote that the two things we could not afford to have happen were injuries to Ash and Espinosa, and so of course both of them immediately were lost forever by game 2. Had they remained healthy, we win eight or nine that year, recruiting would have been even better than it was Malikmas year, and we probably plateau around nine or ten wins because of talent. Which is what we did under Mack, until A) he managed to land VY; and B) he belatedly decided to let VY be VY. 
It is impossible to prove how bad things would have gotten under Mack. I remember some of the hardcore recruitniks on here kept tabs on the guys Mack was pursuing and/or Strong cut ties with and it was fucking horrendous. Bust after bust after bust. 
So Strong prevented further decline. It is impossible to show exactly how much Strong did to turn around the talent level, but consider this -- how horrible would we have been without Poona Ford anchoring the D for the last two years of his time on the 40? That guy was not on Mack's radar, or anyone else's really. Charlie does have a good eye for talent. 
The shit Mack left behind was insurmountable. You can't win with no offensive line, FCS (at best) QBs (or a true frosh like Buechele), and freshman and soph DBs "anchored" by veteran leaders like Dylan Haines. Nobody can. Those problems take years to solve, as we see now at Florida State. 
 

It not like the stats were improving for CS as the years moved forward....

[Laxtonto 12080]

I feel bad for Strong because he was a likable guy that seemed liek he truly cared but was in WAY over his head. Herman was the opposite, an absolute dick that did his job much better than his predicessor.

 

That being said, both desired to be fired, but Strong I am more willing to look back on and wish him well. Fuck Turtle Tom.

[Daichee Bell 2925]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I am not carrying water for him. I just think Herman and late Mack were even worse. Late Mack was worst of all. He just fucking quit. Herman and Strong were failures for different reasons but both failed. 

Mack won 8 games with as shitty of a roster his last year as Charlie's first year. And, how do you rationalize Charlie at South Florida?  He had a good roster there and took a dump on it.  

Edited January 27, 2021 by Daichee Bell

[Tex Pete 20355]

I really need to quit reading this thread. I think my cardiologist has most likely gotten some sort of a notification alarm by now.

[theBigHen 362]

The “But Charlie is such a good guy!” narrative is so overblown. Guy held no one accountable on the team when it came to actually punishing guys, which is why those toxic losers loved him so much. He’s also a homewrecker, on top of being a god awful head coach. If you actually believe he was better than Herman you are huffing paint. 

[Machinator 32099]

I don't know why people bother to argue with an admitted Charlie Strong apologist.

[Burt Macklin 19026]

This thread made me laugh so hard. Can’t wait til 2050 when Charlie still has the worst winning percentage in the history of UT, and MaybeACoordinator is still on here stanning for him while the same people keep taking the bait. 

[Pope Joan 68]

I'm tired of these arguments over bad coaching. We've had 3+ years of done-gave-up Brown, 3 years of the worst-ever record of all our head coaches, Charlie Strong, and 4 years of (apparently fake) Mensa Tom Herman. Even talking about, much less arguing about, which was worse and why, is a complete waste of time. Ten years' suffering these ludicrous excuses for multi-million-dollar salaries is more than enough. No more bullshit about the shitty past, start talking about what we've got going on now and how we can make it even better. 

Go.

[Laxtonto 12080]

5 minutes ago, Pope Joan said:

I'm tired of these arguments over bad coaching. We've had 3+ years of done-gave-up Brown, 3 years of the worst-ever record of all our head coaches, Charlie Strong, and 4 years of (apparently fake) Mensa Tom Herman. Even talking about, much less arguing about, which was worse and why, is a complete waste of time. Ten Eleven years' suffering these ludicrous excuses for multi-million-dollar salaries is more than enough. No more bullshit about the shitty past, start talking about what we've got going on now and how we can make it even better. 

Go.

Eleven... It has been fucking eleven years of shittastic suckatude...

 

Fuck you Mack, Fuck you Strong and Majorly Fuck You Turtle Tom... That is 11 wasted years when we should be a dominant force on the collegiate landscape instead of being relegated to a running meme of are we back or not...

[JFKFC 4883]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Eh, okay, I'll give up. But I am not saying Strong was a good coach. I just think Herman and dregs Mack were even worse.  

[Pope Joan 68]

11 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

Eleven... It has been fucking eleven years of shittastic suckatude...

Settle for 10+, deal?

 

[KYHorn 17069]

Well, I was feeling pretty great about our program's direction until...

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I think Sark will be great. I didn't like the hire for a couple of hours but I came around and I am very optimistic about the program.

 

[SHOOTER12 8810]

4 hours ago, UncleSonny said:

 

Thanks, I don't remember that at all. Crazy that kind of fuckup can happen to the same school twice in a relatively short time frame.

When some shit happens that stupid... more than once, it's so hard to believe that it scrambles the brain into one confused wtf mess, 

[SHOOTER12 8810]

2 hours ago, Laxtonto said:

Bozeman might be, but there is only so much you in Bozeman during the winter...  Outside of Billings, what do you expect her to do to show off? I am not guessing she is the Yellowstone hiking type...

 

It would be a significant social circle downgrade and once again, why put up with his shit to be locked in with his ass all winter?

Coke is really really cheap in Montana, or so I'm told...

[SHOOTER12 8810]

1 hour ago, Tex Pete said:

I really need to quit reading this thread. I think my cardiologist has most likely gotten some sort of a notification alarm by now.

Damn, this right here...

[Funk Doctor Spock 12217]

At the end of the day, fuck Charlie Strong and Tom Herman. Fuck Em. One is a regarded home wrecker and the other is a narcissistic asshole. 

[TrashMaster G 17558]

2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Eh, okay, I'll give up. But I am not saying Strong was a good coach. I just think Herman and dregs Mack were even worse. I think Sark will be great. I didn't like the hire for a couple of hours but I came around and I am very optimistic about the program. I think that unlike Herman, he will supplement what his predecessor left him, and build a great team, and I think we will be very good next year, verging on great the following year, and "back" by year three. 

Please, do a full comparison of Charlie and Mack's HC careers (NOT just at Texas) and tell me how Charlie comes out ahead.

[Eskimohorn 5635]

Herman > Strong overall

Strong had plenty of hurdles (Patterson/Perine), but his coordinator hires were the worst. Imagine if he snatched Lincoln Riley from East Carolina in lieu of Shawn Watson. He couldnt overcome those blunders and was further exposed at USF.

But shittiest coaching jobs since I’ve followed Texas - in reverse chrono order:

1) 2019 was very bad. We started with a decimated secondary and Orlando got more and more desperate. Our offensive gameplans were lazy and stubborn. OU, Baylor, TCU, and Iowa St coaches must have had a great time before and after watching film.

2) 2016 Charlie Strong’s last year started strong with Notre Dame win, road a Doak Walker winner into the ground, and lost to Kansas.

3) 2013 Mack Brown’s final season also saw the firing of Manny Diaz. Having to watch Case McCoy was an indictment on the mismanagement of QB’s under Mack. The Diaz/Akina misalignment is on Mack. As is relying on Greg Robinson to cobble together a defense, which is inexcusable, though helpful step. He then hurt Texas ability to recruit on his way out.

4) 2010 was bad and exposed Greg Davis and Mack for riding Colt and Vince’s coattails. That was a very bad offense.

5) 1997 under Mackovic was the goalpost tour because I think at least 3 opposing team fans tore down goalposts after beating us. Really bad secondary play and a wasted year for Ricky Williams. And maybe we should have recruited Drew Brees over Richard Walton.

[PassiveAggressiveCoach 118]

2 hours ago, UncleSonny said:

I don't know why this is making me insane but it is. I really didn't know there were "Charlie Strong, actually not that bad!" takes out there.

It's quite amazing but it exists. Maybe it's inner guilt?

[demos 3003]

Coke is really really cheap in Montana, or so I'm told...

[CurlyDumps 4471]

1 hour ago, Machinator said:

I don't know why people bother to argue with an admitted Charlie Strong apologist.

Being right and mocking Charlie Strong are two of my favorite internet pastimes.

[thunderlounge 7840]

54 minutes ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Coke is really really cheap in Montana, or so I'm told...

How’s the real estate market? Price and availability. Asking for a good friend. 

[Brandywine 1316]

9 hours ago, Ghost of Shag said:

Charlie Strong was the worst gameday coach I've ever seen at Texas.  The worst.  

How quickly we forget.  

That and his Press Conferences after the game were brutal to watch. 

[JFKFC 4883]

Charlie Strong is to coachening what Tathan is to quarterbackering.