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Tom Herman Fired as UT Football Coach

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15 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

FFS we've been over this in the same thread three times now: ONE OF MACK'S TEAMS FUCKED UP A COIN TOSS THE SAME AS ONE OF CHARLIE'S DID. THAT FUCK UP IS ON THE TEAM CAPTAIN, NOT THE COACH. AND IT'S KIND OF EASY TO DO, AS IT'S PHRASED LIKE AN ITEM ON A BALLOT REFERENDUM, LIKE "WOULD YOU NOT LIKE TO NOT RECEIVE"?.

I honestly don't recall that, if you could give the reference and tell us, did we lose that game by one possession?

 

 

15 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I legit don't remember when Strong could not remember the name of the starting QB; not denying it happened, but I don't remember it. Herman's clock management seems like it kinda sucked too, and Mack / Colt's almost cost a shot an the 2009 NC. 

Pretty easy to find. It's in court records and numerous threads.

 

 

15 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Mack left behind a few decent seniors and nothing after that and he was recruiting even more future busts when we finally shoved his ass out the door. Seriously, we were headed toward 4-win seasons if we'd kept him at the rate he was going.

Lot's of speculation on your part. Chuckles was 3-6 in conference in his LAST year and you try to put that on Mack? Weak.

 

15 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

At his best, he's a very very good coach but he had lost about 15 mph on his heater and all his curveballs were hanging when we canned him. Maybe he's got it back now, I don't know. But he'd fucking lost it while he was here. 

Mack has likely forgotten more about football than Chuckles the clown ever knew. (Including the NAME of his QB!)

15 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

And his legacy as a great coach hangs on one player whose career he came close to ruining. If he didn't feel the heat after 12-0, he wouldn't have let VY be VY, and there would have been no NC, and Mack would be on a tier with the John Coopers of the world. Great recruiter from Tennessee who couldn't beat his archrival and presided over an underachieving program. 

Mack is in the College Football HOF, what are Chuckles chances of getting in without paying the $20 or so to take a tour? 

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Wanker Bob
Wanker Bob

Man your University is a giant shit show.  Life never rewards impatience and y'all are the poster children for impatience. Caviar expectations with Big Mac intelligence. Paying 25 million to send

Restinmybones
Restinmybones

This thread is hilarious. I think Sark is either naive or brain damaged for agreeing to coach at Texas. Maybe both. It's clear to me that the Texas fan base, ex-players, and big money are fractured by

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TreatyOak

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USNALonghorn

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5 hours ago, Had Enough said:


 

 

 


But, but dumbass. Many think we stole a game from ISU in 2013. Remember that one? OU was beginning to suck relatively speaking hence the bringing in of Riley in 2015 and moving out of Stoops.

We were 30 minutes away in theory. But our sole TD was a 7 play, 11 yard drive versus Baylor. How often in your life have you seen that your holiness? In that game and Oregon in the bowl, we had fewer pass yards than they had INT return yards. Read that again and ask yourself how often you've seen that. With an oline that had multiple, multi year senior starters. I'd guess collectively they had over 100 careers starts. So what I'm telling you our offense was hammered dogshit at time.

You and ol matty johnson can get together and talk about the great oline talent we had in 2014 with desmond harrison, estelle and the dude who played at Auburn. Yeah Harrison played in the NFL but quickly washed out. He and Estelle were head cases who did nothing before or after Strong took over. They were reasonable purges. Once Espinosa went down, we had 5 or so total starts from the offensive line. In game 2.


The talent Mack left outside of some senior defensive guys was historically bad. And No depth. The oline depth and experience for damn sure was the worst in my lifetime. Hell the only reason Mack took Harrison was a little desparation.

Your post has no context. You're like Herman with the chart. Context be damned. And one of the oddest roster transitions from college to the NFL is Adrian Phillips. My guess is you couldn't find a single Longhorn fan that could have projected he'd make an NFL roster let alone that Billy Belichick would sign him as a free agent and nearing 10 year vet status.

Special teams. Dickson and Rose. Both NFL guys. Both screwed up late in a game. Dickson, like his cousin, needed time to mature. Three blocks is unacceptable but what's forgotten there is senior Perkins got himself suspended for that game. Course Mack had his multi punt block game. And lack of depth hurts the special teams.

Some interesting notes about that 2015 defense. Gave up 50 to TCU. In a 5 game stretch, did you know that was the fewest they scored? The two after that they scored 45 and 40. Did you know that Tech scored more points in 5 other games than they did versus us? Did you know we were the only team they didn't score on the 1st quarter? Then they scored on the Hill to Grant deflection. Then more points after Jefferson and Jinkens both went out injured. Think about that lack of depth.

Now 2016, only 2 double digit losses. One being the last game to TCU. One on the road to OSU when Foreman and Chris Warren both dealt with injuries. And that Kansas loss. KU had 99 yards of offense at half. On 10 possessions. Really 9 since the half ended on one. 10 points on a pick 6 and a fumble. Turnovers by your true frosh QB and Doak Walker winner are why we lost.

In 15 and 16, we had a lot underclassmen playing next to underclassmen. That's a recipe for inconsistency. Particularly in the defensive backfield. And none of those guys redshirted. Big 12 offenses were stout.

Strong started the roster rebuild. Herman built it stronger particularly in the offensive line and sorta at QB. Depth is massively better. Also of note, Strong only had 3 recruiting classes the first of which was with limited time and ties to the state. Then Herman had the transition class so those things slowed the rebuild some too.

Unfortunately Mack left the roster in shambles. It was going to get worse. I don't like Watson just like everbuddy else but if you were on board with the oline purging and think an offense with horrid depth and experience at oline, a young and limited QB and limited playmakers was going to be anything but bad to inconsistent, you probably shit your drawers on a daily basis. I don't care how much of a badass NFL career Geoff Swaim has had he wasn't making much difference for that 2014 team.


On Strong you can just say look at his record and he lost to Kansas. The program was improving under Strong though just as it improved under Herman. Neither to the extent, we need, hope or want.

Like many others I was not pumped about Sark. But holy hell, it might just work.


Now go ahead and run me off.

 

 

I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about and referencing in the top half of your post. I wasn't defending Mack as much as I was using his terminal years to highlight how inept Charlie was.

Not one sane person on this message board will deny the fact that Charlie inherited a terrible roster. I also don't feel like speculating whether or not he had to purge a large chunk of the team in the summer of 2014. But did Charlie inherit a roster that would force him to have a 43 point loss, a 24 point shutout, and once again a historically bad defense as defensive minded head coach in year two? Was it Mack's fault that he went 5-7 and lost to Kansas in year 3? Have you ever seen a team have three blocked extra points in one game?

Charlie Strong brought Shawn Watson to Texas, and didn't fire him after we mustered 59 yards of offense in an embarrassing blowout vs. Arkansas. Texas gets embarrassed at ND in the season opener in 2015 and only then does Charlie act, wasting all of year two. We needed the University president to fly up to fucking Tulsa so we could convince their OC and offensive line coach to come to Texas. 

On defense we got consistently lit up by the likes of Cal x 2, Texas Tech, TCU x 3, and Oklahoma State. There was no improving trend until he finally decided to shitcan Bedford and take over the defense in middle 2016. Once again he was way behind the 8-ball, this time on his own side of the ball.

Special teams: aside from what we could witness on the field (blocked XPs, fucked up long snaps, etc.), there were former players coming out and saying that ST was straight up not coached during practice. 

No amount of excuses or blaming Mack can cover up the fact that Charlie Strong was a completely clueless head coach, even when compared to Tom Herman. Going 11-2, 7-6, and 4-8 at fucking USF should tell you all you need to know.

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Napoleon

Napoleon 8682

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On 1/28/2021 at 1:33 PM, Cashcar said:

How many games did Herman get face fucked in by 40+ points? The guy is an ass, but he is a superior coach to Strong. 


I thought that you were gunning for Mack Brown right up until the last word of the post. 

OU face-fucked the shit out of us several times under Mack. 

I hated that turtling butter-toothed mother fucker!

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NoctambulantBrobdingnagian

NoctambulantBrobdingnagian 530

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On 1/28/2021 at 1:16 PM, MaybeACoordinator said:

One of his fucking captains fucked up a coin flip, the same as one of Mack's did. This was put to bed upthread. He did recruit the QB position and Shane Buechele ended up pretty fucking good. STs weren't that much better under Herman -- it wasn't Strong's fault that his long snapper got the yips that one game. On Watson we can agree. 

why don't you focus on Chuckles at USF; what forces were against him there taking them from an 11 win season to the Strong Ceiling Equilibrium of 4 a win season?

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Hank Chinaski

Hank Chinaski 6315

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Christ. 

Any average slapdick D-1 coach should be able to go 8-5 at Texas, because he'd have good enough players to do so and a not-overwhelming schedule. Here is the average record for the last 3 coaches:

Mack: 10-3

Strong: 5-7

Herman: 8-5

If 8-5 is a "replacement level" coach, then Mack was +2, Strong was -2.5, Herman was 0. That quick and meaningless math actually sounds about right to me. Mack was really good, Strong was really bad, Herman was really average. 

We can argue all we want about how they got there. Mack has always been (fairly) criticized for being too conservative, for the OU losses, he wasn't a great Xs and Os guy, etc...but the bottom line is that he averaged 10-3 over 16 years. If you want to say it was due to his talent, that's fine - assembling that talent was his job. If you want to say he was a CEO coach, whatever, great - he was a damn good assembler of talent, and his teams generally weren't stupid and they were generally fundamentally sound. That goes a long way when you have far more talent than 90% of your opponents. We can get into "late-stage Mack" all we want (which interestingly, was 1 Charlie Strong season and 3 Tom Herman seasons), but I'll evaluate him on the entirety of his tenure. 

We can argue all day long about what Charlie inherited. It wasn't great. But he also did nothing in 3 years but get worse. Plenty of coaches have taken over worse situations and have turned it around by year 2 or 3. Plenty of coaches adjust to the roster they have, or recruit badasses, or hire innovative coaches...Charlie did none of that. He had a shit AD, yes. But Charlie's teams were consistently bad and showed absolutely no signs of improvement in 3 years. 

Herman wasn't horrible; he was just no better than average. We all pretty much agree on his shortcomings, and he too showed no ability to fix them. He's in the meaty part of the bell curve when it comes to most potential hires. 

The details are fine for discussion, but this is the bottom line. 

Edited by Hank Chinaski
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closetohumping

closetohumping 17442

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17 minutes ago, Hank Chinaski said:

Christ. 

Any average slapdick D-1 coach should be able to go 8-5 at Texas, because he'd have good enough players to do so and a not-overwhelming schedule. Here is the average record for the last 3 coaches:

Mack: 10-3

Strong: 5-7

Herman: 8-5

If 8-5 is a "replacement level" coach, then Mack was +2, Strong was -2.5, Herman was 0. That quick and meaningless math actually sounds about right to me. Mack was really good, Strong was really bad, Herman was really average. 

We can argue all we want about how they got there. Mack has always been (fairly) criticized for being too conservative, for the OU losses, he wasn't a great Xs and Os guy, etc...but the bottom line is that he averaged 10-3 over 16 years. If you want to say it was due to his talent, that's fine - assembling that talent was his job. If you want to say he was a CEO coach, whatever, great - he was a damn good assembler of talent, and his teams generally weren't stupid and they were generally fundamentally sound. That goes a long way when you have far more talent than 90% of your opponents. We can get into "late-stage Mack" all we want (which interestingly, was 1 Charlie Strong season and 3 Tom Herman seasons), but I'll evaluate him on the entirety of his tenure. 

We can argue all day long about what Charlie inherited. It wasn't great. But he also did nothing in 3 years but get worse. Plenty of coaches have taken over worse situations and have turned it around by year 2 or 3. Plenty of coaches adjust to the roster they have, or recruit badasses, or hire innovative coaches...Charlie did none of that. He had a shit AD, yes. But Charlie's teams were consistently bad and showed absolutely no signs of improvement in 3 years. 

Herman wasn't horrible; he was just no better than average. We all pretty much agree on his shortcomings, and he too showed no ability to fix them. He's in the meaty part of the bell curve when it comes to most potential hires. 

The details are fine for discussion, but this is the bottom line. 

Yep you have to be pretty incompetent to not win at least 8 games here

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Laxtonto

Laxtonto 12080

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It’s sad to say that Herman’s use of Bijan was a fireable offense and thankfully it worked out that way in the long run.

 

His over reliance of his guys in the skill position rotation had to be maddening to the entire team. How annoyed was the rest of the O, Sam included, watching Ingram trot out there all the time while seeing Bijan in practice.

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Knoxtnhorn

Knoxtnhorn 5976

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Been drinking all day.  Can't remember if I've already posted this.

Anyway.  I've never played organized football.  Only got to Clark Field intramural's brother.  That being said, I could call 95% of the offensive plays during the Tom Herman era.  I.E. Turtle Herman plays.  I'm happy to say that I have no idea what we're going to run this year from play-to-play.  I guess that's something if my ignorant ass could defend a Herman offense.

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Texasrocks

Texasrocks 2134

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3 minutes ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

Been drinking all day.  Can't remember if I've already posted this.

Anyway.  I've never played organized football.  Only got to Clark Field intramural's brother.  That being said, I could call 95% of the offensive plays during the Tom Herman era.  I.E. Turtle Herman plays.  I'm happy to say that I have no idea what we're going to run this year from play-to-play.  I guess that's something if my ignorant ass could defend a Herman offense.

Last year, a holding penalty, sack, or pretty much any third-and-long meant we were going to punt. We seem to have fewer negative plays overall and when we have them manage to convert.

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Knoxtnhorn

Knoxtnhorn 5976

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I think it was the play just before half.  Something like 2nd and 3, at the 50, just under 2 mins left.  Last few years, run every, single time.  We, shockingly, passed and drew 2 defensive holding penalties leading to a TD.  No way we're not settling for 15 more yards and a long FG attempt last year.

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ztejas

ztejas 43454

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2 minutes ago, The Dark Knight said:

I must say that I am amazed at how Mensa seemingly fell off the face of the earth after his firing. I know he is an analyst with the Chicago Bears, but has there been any sighting of him lately? Like at the Yellow Rose or another local watering hole?

It's weird. Especially because despite his shortcomings he's still better than plenty of D1 HCs. Probably waiting for a decent job to open up.

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Happy Gilmore

Happy Gilmore 1001

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1 minute ago, ztejas said:

It's weird. Especially because despite his shortcomings he's still better than plenty of D1 HCs. Probably waiting for a decent job to open up.

South Carolina would've been a good spot. Beamer Ball is gonna drive them into the ground even further (not sure how much further they can go) 

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