Tom Herman Fired as UT Football Coach

[Burt Macklin 19038]

 

2 hours ago, texifornia said:

Strong (disappointment) and Herman (pretty close to average impact) both in here:

 

This is why you have to be quick to move on when you know your coach isn’t the guy. It’s a crapshoot so you might as well take more bites at the apple until you get the right one, especially at a place like Texas where you can keep the right guy for decades. 

[Steel Shank 9430]

"Where's Tom Herman going?"

 

[DanTheHorn 4938]

1 hour ago, Steel Shank said:

"Where's Tom Herman going?"

He has been following in Charlie's footsteps.

[Lhorn 4930]

In retrospect it's crazy he was given a fourth year. 
Fun exercise. If he had been canned at the end of 2019, who is our coach right now?

Maybe in retrospect given what we know about his interpersonal issues etc but at the time it seemed reasonable. In August we thought we were going to bend over the entire conference. It could have happened and probably should have happened but didn’t and that’s for the best.

Do people think that his off the field issues have tainted him for other big time/medium time jobs? Because certainly guys have failed worse than Herman and been snapped up based on the idea that “well it didn’t work out at Texas but it’s not entirely his fault.” (To be clear, I’m not saying that it’s not entirely his fault; just that someone who wanted to convince themself that he was the guy might say those things).

[TwiceHorn 31513]

10 minutes ago, Lhorn said:

Maybe in retrospect given what we know about his interpersonal issues etc but at the time it seemed reasonable. In August we thought we were going to bend over the entire conference. It could have happened and probably should have happened but didn’t and that’s for the best.

Do people think that his off the field issues have tainted him for other big time/medium time jobs? Because certainly guys have failed worse than Herman and been snapped up based on the idea that “well it didn’t work out at Texas but it’s not entirely his fault.” (To be clear, I’m not saying that it’s not entirely his fault; just that someone who wanted to convince themself that he was the guy might say those things).

I think Herman's major problem is more or less an identity crisis.  He doesn't know whether he's a hardass or a softy and affects one or the other, and everything in between, from time to time.

This kind of thing might be overcome with age, experience, sobriety, therapy, or some combination thereof.

There is potential for him to get it sorted out and become a pretty good coach.  A fair number of people never sort that out.

Guys like Saban and Jimmy Johnson aren't faking being intense, psychotic assholes.  That's who they are.  Herman doesn't know who he is, and neither do we.

But he interspersed enough nuggets of decent-to-good coaching in between the dumbassedness that there is probably some hope for him.

Edited January 25, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Mdhorn 5974]

Still can't believe Tom had the keys to his dream car and blew it up.  He had options and on is own volition trashed it.  Humility would've helped so much.  Early on he said he was all about details and then commenced to hire a buddy system from fucking UofH rather than a nationally bigger, more successful program, offer late because work requires effort and then trash people.  While it was a laughable moment to impersonate an opposing qb in the heat of the moment, thinking he wouldn't do that to others, including teammates, recruits, staff, alumns and donors, was short sighted.  

[Vertigo 20298]

4 hours ago, texifornia said:

Strong (disappointment) and Herman (pretty close to average impact) both in here:

 

Interesting that Freeze is upper right twice. I was also surprised to see Harsin in the lower left. 

[texifornia 57033]

5 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

Interesting that Freeze is upper right twice. I was also surprised to see Harsin in the lower left. 

He was good at Ole Miss and made Liberty waaaaay better. Makes sense.

[WBT 20644]

23 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

Interesting that Freeze is upper right twice. I was also surprised to see Harsin in the lower left. 

That's kind of a flawed methodology.  Whether you improve your new school is going to depend very heavily on the previous baseline.  Are you replacing a coach who was performing well and decided to retire or who left for a better job?  Or are you replacing a coach who was fired for doing a bad job?

[UncleSonny 6573]

2 hours ago, Machinator said:

That doesn't even make sense. The Bucs probably made the more analytically sound moves in that game, in particular going for it on 4th and 3 right before halftime.

I didn't see the article, but I assume that is what headline meant. The Packers and Bills both fucked themselves by ignoring the analytics and kicking short field goals because of the old school, "take the points" fallacy.

Kind of confusing way to word it, but analytics were their downfall because they didn't follow them. 

[Burt Macklin 19038]

1 hour ago, Vertigo said:

Interesting that Freeze is upper right twice. I was also surprised to see Harsin in the lower left. 

That chart isn’t very reliable because most of it depends on the performance of the team before you got there. 

Freeze is a very good coach who took over programs in pretty bad shape. Freeze will win if your school can stomach the blatant cheating in recruiting. 
 

As for Harsin, I don’t know anything about Arkansas State, but I’d say his SP+ being down at Boise is just a function of following Chris Peterson. It was going to be close to impossible to do better than him. 

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

9 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

That chart isn’t very reliable because most of it depends on the performance of the team before you got there. 

Freeze is a very good coach who took over programs in pretty bad shape. Freeze will win if your school can stomach the blatant cheating in recruiting. 
 

As for Harsin, I don’t know anything about Arkansas State, but I’d say his SP+ being down at Boise is just a function of following Chris Peterson. It was going to be close to impossible to do better than him. 

Yeah, Rhule gets a bad mark on this chart for reasons that were largely not his fault as well.

[TexArcher 37989]

Thread title still makes me smile every time it's bumped to the top.

[Machinator 32099]

Putting this here as it's a vestige of the Herman era.

 

[Cajun 11722]

That seems about Herb's speed.

What a fraud that dude is.

[TreatyOak 16388]

14 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Thread title still makes me smile every time it's bumped to the top.

For me, the firing was somewhat unsatisfying. Along with the obscene buyout, I wanted a very public, humiliating event. Getting fired in the tunnel following the Alamo Bowl, at a press conference, etc, would have been far more rewarding.

  

[elguapo 4586]

9 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Putting this here as it's a vestige of the Herman era.

 

🚨👆DUDE ALERT👆🚨

[TreatyOak 16388]

Perhaps if he had been forced to publicly wear a relevantly-themed costume to receive his buyout. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by TreatyOak

[gmr548 16590]

Putting this here as it's a vestige of the Herman era.
 

I’m honestly surprised he didn’t just retire if he can’t get a better job than that. Though I suppose if he likes the Charlotte area that’s an easy way to collect six figures with job security.

[UncleSonny 6573]

12 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

I’m honestly surprised he didn’t just retire if he can’t get a better job than that. Though I suppose if he likes the Charlotte area that’s an easy way to collect six figures with job security.

I wonder what he is getting paid, it may not even be six figs. Their head coach is only at like $750K. That is one of the quickest falls for a pretty young coach I can remember. He's in his early 50s, dude should be right in his prime as a coach. 

[markstanco 12586]

I’m honestly surprised he didn’t just retire if he can’t get a better job than that. Though I suppose if he likes the Charlotte area that’s an easy way to collect six figures with job security.

If he is jumping on that job so fast, he is a bad money manager.

[EZ$ 2105]

Anything on Michelle’s Twitter?  She usually liked to spout off in defense of her husband. 

[South Austin 52523]

I'm kinda surprised Herman hasn't already landed a G5 head coaching job or P5 coordinator gig.  I seem to recall Charlie landing a job by now, and Herman had a lot more success than Charlie. 

[Deej 76860]

14 hours ago, UncleSonny said:

I wonder what he is getting paid, it may not even be six figs. Their head coach is only at like $750K. That is one of the quickest falls for a pretty young coach I can remember. He's in his early 50s, dude should be right in his prime as a coach. 

He's in his prime. His prime just sucks.

[victory88 5669]

I have no idea but I'm guessing Herman is probably going to take some time off.  Dude got paid at Texas so he can retire if he wants to.  He's not a bad coach and once was the hottest coordinator in college football.  He will go through the Saban rehab program.  I think right now, he probably needs some self reflection.  Dude has a huge ego and it was one of the many reasons he was fired here.  Imagine being a CEO and being forced to go through an etiquette program because you act like a cunt.  He needs to  look at Sark as an example on how to truly change.  

With that said, Sark was never an asshole, just a drunk. Not sure if Herman can change that part.

[Guest Lobo]

^

Yep, if he's half as smart as he thinks he is...a year away from the game would be good for him and his family.  Any number of OC positions at elite programs/NFL would be open to him at that point.  I can't begin to describe what a fucking asshole he was to people on campus.  And grossly inappropriate.  We're lucky we're not involved in a Title IX scandal at this point. 

[RGBIII 22840]

1 hour ago, South Austin said:

I'm kinda surprised Herman hasn't already landed a G5 head coaching job or P5 coordinator gig.  I seem to recall Charlie landing a job by now, and Herman had a lot more success than Charlie. 

Think he said he wants to take a year off. No reason for him to jump right into it with that thick ass buyout

[gmr548 16590]

I wonder what he is getting paid, it may not even be six figs. Their head coach is only at like $750K. That is one of the quickest falls for a pretty young coach I can remember. He's in his early 50s, dude should be right in his prime as a coach. 

Gonna be honest, thought he was at least ten years older than that

[Lhorn 4930]

20 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think Herman's major problem is more or less an identity crisis.  He doesn't know whether he's a hardass or a softy and affects one or the other, and everything in between, from time to time.

This kind of thing might be overcome with age, experience, sobriety, therapy, or some combination thereof.

There is potential for him to get it sorted out and become a pretty good coach.  A fair number of people never sort that out.

Guys like Saban and Jimmy Johnson aren't faking being intense, psychotic assholes.  That's who they are.  Herman doesn't know who he is, and neither do we.

But he interspersed enough nuggets of decent-to-good coaching in between the dumbassedness that there is probably some hope for him.

I"ve thought this as well.  He came in as a great success, as the coach who kisses his players before games.  I think he thought we had a soft program (which we probably did) and that he had to come in as Marine drill instructor.  He was the Mensa guy (binder of play calling percentages and urine color), he was the aloof guy (not calling player by their name), he was the player advocate, social justice guy.  Ultimately he seemed to soften into a guy who should have been more likable by the players but it seems that they weren't buying it, or else it was too late.    

[Machinator 32099]

There's a good analogy somewhere about Herman's inconsistencies in coaching approach and philosophy and his ability to change his looks every time he appeared in public.

[Laxtonto 12090]

11 minutes ago, Machinator said:

There's a good analogy somewhere about Herman's inconsistencies in coaching approach and philosophy and his ability to change his looks every time he appeared in public.

So are you saying if you don't have a monkey to balance your life, you cant constantly change your looks and still retain consistency in your everyday life?

The monkey is the key for true success as a chameleon?

[Herpa Derpa 6126]

23 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

So are you saying if you don't have a monkey to balance your life, you cant constantly change your looks and still retain consistency in your everyday life?

The monkey is the key for true success as a chameleon?

The monkey is always the key.

[Born Burnt 6182]

15 minutes ago, Herpa Derpa said:

The monkey is always the key.

[thunderlounge 7894]

 

[Guadaloopy 10990]

On 1/25/2021 at 3:13 PM, UncleSonny said:

I wonder what he is getting paid, it may not even be six figs. Their head coach is only at like $750K. That is one of the quickest falls for a pretty young coach I can remember. He's in his early 50s, dude should be right in his prime as a coach. 

This comment made me reflect on football coaches in their prime.  I thought back to my HS Head Football Coach who in my recollection seemed to be a weathered, late middle-aged football lifer.   From my memories, I would have guessed he was late 40s or early 50s.  I looked it up and he was actually 33 at the time of my senior season.  Ah... the perspective of youth.  

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

My handle gives me away as a Charlie apologist, and his tenure at USF ultimately proved me wrong, but I still think, sad as it is to say, that he was a better coach than Herman. Do you really think Herman would have won more than six games with Tyrone Swoopes at QB and that absolute dogshit offensive line we had? As for the idea that he raised the talent level, idk know about that. Bijan is the only player obviously better than any Charlie brought in. The fact is, Charlie really did leave the program in slightly better shape than what Mack left him with. A better human being could have built on it and succeeded, but he was just such an arrogant dick, he just didn't have it in him.  I really don't think he will ever succeed anywhere else. His psychological problems are incurable. Narcissists don't get better; they just dig in and double down. 

[Rhinotx 500]

3 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

My handle gives me away as a Charlie apologist, and his tenure at USF ultimately proved me wrong, but I still think, sad as it is to say, that he was a better coach than Herman. Do you really think Herman would have won more than six games with Tyrone Swoopes at QB and that absolute dogshit offensive line we had? As for the idea that he raised the talent level, idk know about that. Bijan is the only player obviously better than any Charlie brought in. The fact is, Charlie really did leave the program in slightly better shape than what Mack left him with. A better human being could have built on it and succeeded, but he was just such an arrogant dick, he just didn't have it in him.  I really don't think he will ever succeed anywhere else. His psychological problems are incurable. Narcissists don't get better; they just dig in and double down. 

I think he would have won more than 5 games with Heard and Buechele.

[Wulaw Horn 19140]

3 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

My handle gives me away as a Charlie apologist, and his tenure at USF ultimately proved me wrong, but I still think, sad as it is to say, that he was a better coach than Herman. Do you really think Herman would have won more than six games with Tyrone Swoopes at QB and that absolute dogshit offensive line we had? As for the idea that he raised the talent level, idk know about that. Bijan is the only player obviously better than any Charlie brought in. The fact is, Charlie really did leave the program in slightly better shape than what Mack left him with. A better human being could have built on it and succeeded, but he was just such an arrogant dick, he just didn't have it in him.  I really don't think he will ever succeed anywhere else. His psychological problems are incurable. Narcissists don't get better; they just dig in and double down. 

This take is just wrong. I think you know it’s wrong so I won’t mock you for it. 
it was Charlie’s fault that swoops was his QB. Terrible roster management skills that demonstrated just how incapable he was of running a program like Texas and taking advantage of any of its inherent advantages. 
by far the worst coach at UT in my lifetime and anyone arguing he’s better than Herman is wrong. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

This take is just wrong. I think you know it’s wrong so I won’t mock you for it. 
it was Charlie’s fault that swoops was his QB. Terrible roster management skills that demonstrated just how incapable he was of running a program like Texas and taking advantage of any of its inherent advantages. 
by far the worst coach at UT in my lifetime and anyone arguing he’s better than Herman is wrong. 

Your take is so wrong I won't make you for it. How was it his fault he came in and immediately the starting QB for the next two years goes down in his second game, along with the only decent OL (Espinosa), and his alternatives were Swoopes and Heard, both of whom were busts as QBs?

The OL was dogshit through his entire tenure. The DBs were always green but talented, after year one, when the D played well. Herman would have been even worse. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

4 minutes ago, Rhinotx said:

I think he would have won more than 5 games with Heard and Buechele.

Freshman Buechele, who I believe got badly dinged early on. (He lost his ability to throw deep in non-conference -- took a huge hit in his armpit in the Cal game and didn't seem the same after that.)

[Wulaw Horn 19140]

1 minute ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Your take is so wrong I won't make you for it. How was it his fault he came in and immediately the starting QB for the next two years goes down in his second game, along with the only decent OL (Espinosa), and his alternatives were Swoopes and Heard, both of whom were busts as QBs?

The OL was dogshit through his entire tenure. The DBs were always green but talented, after year one, when the D played well. Herman would have been even worse. 

We are sure Heard couldn’t have been good enough to net more than 51 yards against Arkansas in a bowl game without Watson?

he brought in a clown staff, and regressed completely and totally throughout his tenure. 
special teams were a cruel joke, game management decisions were awful and the program basically regressed in every possible way from year 1 when he was left some nfl talent on defense to year 3 when we were losing to ducking Kansas. Nah man- take the L and sit this one out. He’s the worst coach at UT, unquestionably, since Ed Price. 

[UncleSonny 6573]

25 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Your take is so wrong I won't make you for it. How was it his fault he came in and immediately the starting QB for the next two years goes down in his second game, along with the only decent OL (Espinosa), and his alternatives were Swoopes and Heard, both of whom were busts as QBs?

The OL was dogshit through his entire tenure. The DBs were always green but talented, after year one, when the D played well. Herman would have been even worse. 

He was the head coach for 3 years, not just that first year when he inherited Ash and Swoopes. The best solution he ever found was a true freshman Buechele that 3rd year. The OL was dogshit his entire tenure and he did fuck all to fix it. In what universe is that not his fault as the head coach?

Herman is a world-class dickhead and not even close to the standard of what UT's HC should be but he's a better coach than Strong and it's not even close. Herman played in a Big12 championship game and won a Sugar Bowl (and was undefeated in his other bowls). We could have given Charlie a decade and he would have never gotten to 4 bowl wins.

Now I need to go have a bourbon to shake off the horror of having to defend Tom Herman.

[GringoSalado 1651]

 

50 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

My handle gives me away as a Charlie apologist... 

How so? CS sucks as a head coach. He may be a coordinator. I'd have to put you down as a CS hater.

 

Did you watch any of the games he coached at Texas?

[Funk Doctor Spock 12456]

Herman is radioactive. He won't be getting a job for at least a year I'd bet. I'm not even sure Saban would hire that dude. 

[Scooter Monzingo 821]

20 hours ago, markstanco said:

On 1/25/2021 at 5:52 PM, gmr548 said:

I’m honestly surprised he didn’t just retire if he can’t get a better job than that. Though I suppose if he likes the Charlotte area that’s an easy way to collect six figures with job security.

If he is jumping on that job so fast, he is a bad money manager.

You may be right, but it could also be as simple as has better chance at finding a good job if he is currently working as opposed to hanging around the house. Just a guess, but he is still young in coaching terms.

[gmr548 16590]

1 hour ago, Spider2YBanana said:

Herman is radioactive. He won't be getting a job for at least a year I'd bet. I'm not even sure Saban would hire that dude. 

Saban hired Bill O'Brien. Come on now.

[mr. sunshine 2830]

If I was the one negotiating contracts he’d be picking up trash on the side of a busy highway with nothing between him and God but a reflective vest and a broomstick with a nail in it but that’s just how I roll

[Funk Doctor Spock 12456]

22 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Saban hired Bill O'Brien. Come on now.

True, but BOB at least has NFL experience. Tom has vodka and a very meh run at UH. Plus he's probably more of an asshole than BOB (probably a tie if we're being honest). BOB has SOME value. Tom? He can let Saban smell his fingers so he knows what Kendra Scott smells like 

[South Austin 52523]

9 minutes ago, Spider2YBanana said:

He can let Saban smell his fingers so he knows what Kendra Scott smells like 

That’s good enough for an administrative assistant position.

[Funk Doctor Spock 12456]

Just now, South Austin said:

That’s good enough for an administrative assistant position.

I'd do it for free. I want to know what she smells like.