NY Times got tape of NFL owner-player anthem meeting

[Scholz 11937]

Just now, NastyDreams said:

Exactly, which is subject of this thread.  The NFL is losing money and want to make business changes.  The consequences of the workers stealing time and entertainment from their customers who PAID PAID PAID to see a game.

Don't have a problem with that at all.  The NFL is about their bottom line which is good business.  Personally I think taking this off the field (ala the NBA which doesn't have this problem anymore - they wear shirts or whatever in pregame) is the right move for them.

[Pancho 44535]

2 minutes ago, NastyDreams said:

Exactly, which is subject of this thread.  The NFL is losing money and want to make business changes.  The consequences of the workers stealing time and entertainment from their customers who PAID PAID PAID to see a game.

The NFL is not losing money. Where are you getting this false narrative?

 

the NFL made $14 billion in 2017 and they are on track to make near $27 billion by 2027.

[NastyDreams 11]

2 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Strange how CBS and Fox televise the national anthem now.  In the past, the viewer at home couldn't be bothered to listen to the national anthem except for the Super Bowl.  People at home seem to forget they never stood up at their house for the anthem in the past.  Instead they were on their couch listening to the pre-game.

I can't remember clearly, but my 2nd grade teacher taught us it was in the presence of the flag you stand?

[ChickenSandwich 9803]

Season tickets sold this season will tell the tale of attendance is down or not. They make up the majority for most teams. 

[RandomIdoit 655]

5 minutes ago, Pancho Negro said:

The NFL is not losing money. Where are you getting this false narrative?

 

the NFL made $14 billion in 2017 and they are on track to make near $27 billion by 2027.

By losing money, they mean that they are losing out on money from the people boycotting. It doesn't mean they are operating in the red.

[NastyDreams 11]

5 minutes ago, Pancho Negro said:

The NFL is not losing money. Where are you getting this false narrative?

 

the NFL made $14 billion in 2017 and they are on track to make near $27 billion by 2027.

You gots me.  I made it up.

So, the real problem is not they're losing money, they're just upset cause their employees are kneeling.  Gotcha.

[UT Lawnghorn 758]

9 minutes ago, NastyDreams said:

Exactly, which is subject of this thread.  The NFL is losing money and want to make business changes.  The consequences of the workers stealing time and entertainment from their customers who PAID PAID PAID to see a game.

I didn't realize the national anthem takes longer when a player kneels. I'm so sorry for the loss of your valuable time.  

I also didn't realize the actual in-game product suffers because of a player or two kneeling before the game even starts.  If you care so much about kneeling for the flag that you can't enjoy the game but also care so little about the cause for which they kneel that you can't even begin to understand their perspective enough to still enjoy the game, then that's your problem. No one's stealing anything from you. 

[NastyDreams 11]

2 minutes ago, UT Lawnghorn said:

I didn't realize the national anthem takes longer when a player kneels. I'm so sorry for the loss of your valuable time.  

I also didn't realize the actual in-game product suffers because of a player or two kneeling before the game even starts.  If you care so much about kneeling for the flag that you can't enjoy the game but also care so little about the cause for which they kneel that you can't even begin to understand their perspective enough to still enjoy the game, then that's your problem. No one's stealing anything from you. 

You get it!  People aren't paying in numbers high enough, the freakin NYTimes is sneakin in meetings to find out what the owners are GOING TO DO ABOUT IT!

[MillerEP 30348]

It's not JUST that the people started boycotting, they mention in that transcript that a lot of their sponsors were also spooked.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

Getting uglier and uglier for the NFL on this subject......

 

[kevwun 15675]

Is his case going to end up in the court district in New York that is super NFL friendly?  The NFL steers all it's big cases there.

Edited May 24, 2018 by kevwun

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

17 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Is his case going to end up in the court district in New York that is super NFL friendly?  The NFL steers all it's big cases there.

It was filed through the CBA so it goes thru arbitration to a 3rd party arbiter...... I think it may be this Penn professor.

http://www.thedp.com/article/2018/02/colin-kaepernick-collusion-lawsuit-nfl-burbank-trump-penn-professor-arbitrator-system-law-university

[Slacks 6792]

14 hours ago, RandomIdoit said:

I don't know how the CBA factors into this, but I am going off of what has been reported.

 

yes. usually, fines come from the league...  team fines need some teeth... this will be toothless, aside from 'detrimental conduct'.

[Beau Vine 54017]

1 hour ago, NastyDreams said:

Exactly, which is subject of this thread.  The NFL is losing money and want to make business changes.  The consequences of the workers stealing time and entertainment from their customers who PAID PAID PAID to see a game.

lolwut???

I appreciate both sides of the issue, but this is the stupidest post in a thread that has gone fully Cloak Room.

[NastyDreams 11]

Sure. Put your dumbass on a street corner and protest.  People would pay I'm sure.

[Beau Vine 54017]

3 minutes ago, NastyDreams said:

Sure. Put your dumbass on a street corner and protest.  People would pay I'm sure.

How does this make any sense at all in the context of the discussion?

How were "these workers stealing time and entertainment from their customers who PAID PAID PAID to see a game?"

Edited May 24, 2018 by Beau Vine

[Slacks 6792]

3 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

I happen to think that everyone has a right to protest in this country, and employers have a right to inact a punishment. And, nothing would be more american than continued protests in spite of the fines. I think that is the far more patriotic result.

This.  I am interested in seeing how much protest there is in the protesters.  Protest without consequence usually doesn't lead to much change.  

Kaepernick has had the most consequence and probably gotten the most progress, but it's going to take others to get the spotlight back on the actual topic, which is not "oh noes, you must hate the military and all who have sacrificed in service of this country!!!111"

In my opinion, the owners of a powerful entertainment outlet have allowed politicians and politically-incented media outlets to take the conversation in a direction that is detrimental to the league.

A bunch of old, rich dudes would rather count money they can't spend than straighten out the narrative...

Imagine if Jerrah Jones said, "C'mon, people, don't be dumb... the players aren't anti-American or anti-military.  They're tired of seeing people that look like them get beaten or shot by the police. This is not new to any of you. We should all support the message.  President Trump owned a football team.  He had African American players on his team. Would he have felt the same then?  Of course not.  He has a grudge with the league. We know. He sued the league. We understand. But he's the President of the United States and he should be thinking and talking about how we address the systemic lack of civility that police have had toward african americans and other people of color for generations...  oh, and we just signed Colin Kaepernick to be the backup to Dak, because the Dallas Cowboys are America's Team.  'merica."

That would pretty much flip the script on the bullshit narrative that is being used to obscure and avoid the real conversation.

[Pancho 44535]

1 hour ago, RandomIdoit said:

By losing money, they mean that they are losing out on money from the people boycotting. It doesn't mean they are operating in the red.

Where is the link that said they passed this because they were losing money from people boycotting? 

 

Moreover, where is the evidence that those boycotting because of this is of significance to the reported $9 billion in earnings? 

[Pancho 44535]

1 hour ago, NastyDreams said:

You gots me.  I made it up.

So, the real problem is not they're losing money, they're just upset cause their employees are kneeling.  Gotcha.

 

I didn't say you made it up.  I provided a claim (which I can provide a link so there's my research) that shows, no, they aren't losing money because of the kneeling which is exactly what you said was happening. 

[NastyDreams 11]

15 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

How does this make any sense at all in the context of the discussion?

How were "these workers stealing time and entertainment from their customers who PAID PAID PAID to see a game?"

Fans pay to see a football game. They take time to travel there.  They give a ticket and go through a gate.  Player chooses to protest.  Fan can't leave and is basically a captive audience to something they are strongly against.  Now their sick to their stomach and not entertained.  Protester has stolen a moment of their time for personal beliefs.

Kinda like a preacher preaching hell fire and brimstone at a funeral.  Its taking advantage of a captive audience which I detest. My opinion is the context and yours is 'the stupidest thing in the thread', if you don't agree with me evidently.

[Beau Vine 54017]

2 minutes ago, NastyDreams said:

Fans pay to see a football game. They take time to travel there.  They give a ticket and go through a gate.  Player chooses to protest.  Fan can't leave and is basically a captive audience to something they are strongly against.  Now their sick to their stomach and not entertained.  Protester has stolen a moment of their time for personal beliefs.

Kinda like a preacher preaching hell fire and brimstone at a funeral.  Its taking advantage of a captive audience which I detest. My opinion is the context and yours is 'the stupidest thing in the thread', if you don't agree with me evidently.

This is so idiotic I don't even know where to start.

[NastyDreams 11]

16 minutes ago, Pancho Negro said:

 

I didn't say you made it up.  I provided a claim (which I can provide a link so there's my research) that shows, no, they aren't losing money because of the kneeling which is exactly what you said was happening. 

Why should I have to provide a link when the thread title  is about the owners having a meeting and stopping the stupid protest?  Who gives a shit how much they 'think' they stand to lose?  They don't have to prove it to me or you.  Their in business, not cult of personality propaganda.

[Pancho 44535]

2 minutes ago, NastyDreams said:

Why should I have to provide a link when the thread title  is about the owners having a meeting and stopping the stupid protest?  Who gives a shit how much they 'think' they stand to lose?  They don't have to prove it to me or you.  Their in business, not cult of personality propaganda.

They're

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

7 minutes ago, NastyDreams said:

Fans pay to see a football game. They take time to travel there.  They give a ticket and go through a gate.  Player chooses to protest.  Fan can't leave and is basically a captive audience to something they are strongly against.  Now their sick to their stomach and not entertained.  Protester has stolen a moment of their time for personal beliefs.

Kinda like a preacher preaching hell fire and brimstone at a funeral.  Its taking advantage of a captive audience which I detest. My opinion is the context and yours is 'the stupidest thing in the thread', if you don't agree with me evidently.

Then maybe the NFL shouldn't have politicized the moment for a cash grab a decade ago...... And now they can't put the horse back in the barn.  This wasn't an issue when nobody cared what the players did during the anthem.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 hour ago, Scholz said:

Free speech is every American's platform.  That doesn't mean there won't be consequences.  But they can say and do what they want.

Yep.  Ask John Rocker.

[Chuckie Finster 22609]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Yep.  Ask John Rocker.

John Rocker pitched in 159 more games and was cast on Survivor after that Sports Illustrated article was released.  Kind of a weird comparison, because he was still very much employed until it was evident that he was no longer effective.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Chuckie Finster

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 minute ago, Chuckie Finster said:

John Rocker pitched in 159 more games and was cast on Survivor after that Sports Illustrated article was released.

He was suspended 73 days.  For an interview he gave in the offseason while not in uniform or on the clock.  Because his comments pissed off many of MLB's customers.  Which was a smart move by MLB.

The NFL should prohibit all divisive political activity by players while in uniform.  Like pretty much any big business does.  No kneeling whether it's to protest police violence against blacks, gay marriage, abortion, gun violence, restrictions on guns, bathroom bills, transgenders, the rainforests, global warming, etc.

Stop all player politics before it gets more out of hand and other types of political protests start up.  Because one side or the other is going to be annoyed, turned off, or pissed off.

Players are free to do whatever political activity they want on their own time.

[Slacks 6792]

8 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

He was suspended 73 days.  For an interview he gave in the offseason while not in uniform or on the clock.  Because his comments pissed off many of MLB's customers.  Which was a smart move by MLB.

The NFL should prohibit all divisive political activity by players while in uniform.  Like pretty much any big business does.  No kneeling whether it's to protest police violence against blacks, gay marriage, abortion, gun violence, restrictions on guns, bathroom bills, transgenders, the rainforests, global warming, etc.

Stop all player politics before it gets more out of hand and other types of political protests start up.  Because one side or the other is going to be annoyed, turned off, or pissed off.

Players are free to do whatever political activity they want on their own time.

All time is my own.

[RandomIdoit 655]

1 hour ago, Snacks said:

yes. usually, fines come from the league...  team fines need some teeth... this will be toothless, aside from 'detrimental conduct'.

Like being late for meetings, wearing your jersey untucked, or having your pants above the knee? Players are going to be fined for all of these things.

[RandomIdoit 655]

46 minutes ago, Pancho Negro said:

1. Where is the link that said they passed this because they were losing money from people boycotting? 

 

2. Moreover, where is the evidence that those boycotting because of this is of significance to the reported $9 billion in earnings? 

1. They aren't going to admit it. Just like they aren't going to admit that Kaepernick is untouchable because it will cost them money. 

2. If they thought that they are losing out on even $1,000,000, .01%, do you not think they would think that it was significant?

[Chuckie Finster 22609]

15 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

He was suspended 73 days.  For an interview he gave in the offseason while not in uniform or on the clock.  Because his comments pissed off many of MLB's customers.  Which was a smart move by MLB.

The NFL should prohibit all divisive political activity by players while in uniform.  Like pretty much any big business does.  No kneeling whether it's to protest police violence against blacks, gay marriage, abortion, gun violence, restrictions on guns, bathroom bills, transgenders, the rainforests, global warming, etc.

Stop all player politics before it gets more out of hand and other types of political protests start up.  Because one side or the other is going to be annoyed, turned off, or pissed off.

Players are free to do whatever political activity they want on their own time.

Most of those days were in Spring Training, which resulted in a total of 12 games missed, but I do agree with the idea that a private organization can do whatever the hell it wants.

The NFL's new mess, though, is that they appear to have bent to political pressure from the President.  And that will make a whole new group of people angry.

[Slacks 6792]

6 minutes ago, RandomIdoit said:

Like being late for meetings, wearing your jersey untucked, or having your pants above the knee? Players are going to be fined for all of these things.

Those are all agreed to in the CBA.

[Machinator 32098]

6 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

The NFL's new mess, though, is that they appear to have bent to political pressure from the President.  And that will make a whole new group of people angry.

There is really no scenario for the NFL where everyone is happy, at this point.

[Chuckie Finster 22609]

1 minute ago, Machinator said:

There is really no scenario for the NFL where everyone is happy, at this point.

They really screwed this up from the start.

[Sgt Hulk 13648]

Just stopped by to see if people where still mad,  they are

[C-Man 27083]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

He was suspended 73 days.  For an interview he gave in the offseason while not in uniform or on the clock.  Because his comments pissed off many of MLB's customers.  Which was a smart move by MLB.

The NFL should prohibit all divisive political activity by players while in uniform.  Like pretty much any big business does.  No kneeling whether it's to protest police violence against blacks, gay marriage, abortion, gun violence, restrictions on guns, bathroom bills, transgenders, the rainforests, global warming, etc.

Stop all player politics before it gets more out of hand and other types of political protests start up.  Because one side or the other is going to be annoyed, turned off, or pissed off.

Players are free to do whatever political activity they want on their own time.

Let's not compare Rocker's situation to players kneeling for the anthem in a stand against police brutality. Rocker was suspended because he outed himself as a bigoted, racist jackwagon in print.

Edited May 24, 2018 by C-Man

[Huckleberry 32710]

1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Then maybe the NFL shouldn't have politicized the moment for a cash grab a decade ago...... And now they can't put the horse back in the barn.  This wasn't an issue when nobody cared what the players did during the anthem.  

Exactly.

All the GO AMERICA stuff before sports games is dumb and doesn't belong. International competition? Fine. Private companies doing it solely for money? It doesn't belong in that context.

[Ricky Butler 2662]

36 minutes ago, Machinator said:

There is really no scenario for the NFL where everyone is happy, at this point.

It's like the NFL doesn't understand the point of a protest.

"We're all for protesting as long as everyone agrees on everything and Bud Light."

 

[golfclap 6903]

47 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

The NFL should prohibit all divisive political activity by players while in uniform.

Only divisive? Who is the judge of what's divisive? Do you think forcing people to stand for the anthem is at all divisive? 

The NFL should shut the fuck up and should've shut the fuck up from the beginning. They turned a small event into a massively negative impact for their league (on both sides of the fence). they can't get out of their own fucking way with their incredible overwrought and incredibly fucking stupid "protecting of the brand". do you know who brought incredible value to the brand? Ken Stabler. Joe Namath. Deion Sanders. John Matuszak. John Riggins. Billy White Shoes Johnson. Jack Tatum. etc ...   not a one of those guys would "get away" with any of the shit that they said or did on or off the field in the current iteration of that garbage fucking league because: ZOMG: THE SHIELD. 

Fuck the NFL. 

 

College football is better in every single way and the gap is only growing. 

[Beau Vine 54017]

I'd like to take a break from all this dissension to say that I think one thing we can all agree on is that RandomIdoit's avatar is pretty excellent.

 

[ChickenSandwich 9803]

So When does Vince Young sue the NFL?  He was clearly good enough to start in the NFL. Apparently that means collusion if he doesn’t get a job. Same with Ray Rice. He was still good enough to be a starter but it must be collusion he never got another job?  Kap was protesting his pending unemployment, not any social injustice  

 

heres my idea...fund body cameras for all police departments. Open conversations with the police unions who oppose. Have the NFL rum commercials for body cams protecting both sides. 

Create a legal defense fund to provide better representation for the underrepresented communities. The true disparity in justice representation that is directly tied to money. This is where everyone is not treated equally. These are two basic ideas that would be easy implement and who wouldn’t get behind them. Put some of the money to good use with tangible results. 

Expand from there. Scholarships for kids who want to join the force in their community. Housing stipends so officers can live in the communities they police. 

Send plain clothes officers to schools to meet and talk to kids one on one. Mandatory for both officers and kids. Make each other Human again. 

Mall more productive than some clever socks and a salty T shirt. 

[Gene Parmesan 3993]

Ray Rice actually successfully sued the NFL.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, angryhomer said:

Who fucking cares what he was wearing.  And it's pretty easy to see how willfully ignorant you are by butchering the name so well.  And fuck your real solutions.  That is just bullshit rhetoric you're mimicking from Faux News.  They have offered real solutions, like meeting with police departments and politicians to come up with new policies to stem the police violence.  But instead, the cocksucker-in-chief tweets out lies and you just eat it up.  And don't contradict yourself, old man.  You said the they can still bring it up while lamenting that they shouldn't be able to protest.  Patriotism is the last refuge for the scoundrel.

Finally, I'd like to point out your 2010's comment.  White men have been brutalizing black men in this country for 400 years.   Don't make it sound like this is a new problem.  You're just dripping with white privilege.

You ignore that Kap wore a Che Guivera shirt?

 

How convenient.  

 

So which of his messages should be listened to?

[ChickenSandwich 9803]

VY needs to file

[Ricky Butler 2662]

4 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Ray Rice actually successfully sued the NFL.

Dude, don't squash his stupid analogy. 

[Chuckie Finster 22609]

17 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

So When does Vince Young sue the NFL?  He was clearly good enough to start in the NFL. Apparently that means collusion if he doesn’t get a job. Same with Ray Rice. He was still good enough to be a starter but it must be collusion he never got another job?  Kap was protesting his pending unemployment, not any social injustice  

 

heres my idea...fund body cameras for all police departments. Open conversations with the police unions who oppose. Have the NFL rum commercials for body cams protecting both sides. 

Create a legal defense fund to provide better representation for the underrepresented communities. The true disparity in justice representation that is directly tied to money. This is where everyone is not treated equally. These are two basic ideas that would be easy implement and who wouldn’t get behind them. Put some of the money to good use with tangible results. 

Expand from there. Scholarships for kids who want to join the force in their community. Housing stipends so officers can live in the communities they police. 

Send plain clothes officers to schools to meet and talk to kids one on one. Mandatory for both officers and kids. Make each other Human again. 

Mall more productive than some clever socks and a salty T shirt. 

Colin Kaepernick has donated over $1 million to over 40 different charities and hosted a "Know Your Rights" camp in Chicago, that had breakout sessions that gave the campers advice on how to deal with police officers when detained, financial literacy, holistic health and college preparation among other things.  He also donated $1 million of aid to Somalia, which has nothing to do with this specific cause but is just a neat thing to do.

Your last line shows your willful ignorance on a topic that you appear to care deeply about.  There's no point in discussing this any further with someone who refuses to acknowledge the basic facts of the situation.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Chuckie Finster

[Beau Vine 54017]

12 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

So When does Vince Young sue the NFL?  He was clearly good enough to start in the NFL. Apparently that means collusion if he doesn’t get a job. Same with Ray Rice. He was still good enough to be a starter but it must be collusion he never got another job? 

 

Vince Young was cut by the Saskatchewan Roughriders.

Ray Rice sued and got a settlement of nearly $2M.

[Slacks 6792]

Quote

fund body cameras for all police departments.

fund a switch that keeps the gun from going off if the camera is turned off or malfunctions

[Nice Guy Eddie 13418]

Who is allowed to not stand during the anthem and not face criticism?  I have a buddy that was seriously wounded in Afghanistan while in the Army and harbors deep resentment towards to military and the federal govt.  He's seeking help but will never be physically and mentally the same as before his injury.  At NFL games, he opts to remain seated during the anthem.  Should we, as the crowd, toss him out of the game for being disrespectful to the flag?  Ungrateful thug!

[TSipper 176]

So, it's now the NFL's job to clean up police departments in this country, is that the new argument? Have we elected Roger Goodell President of something and I just missed the memo?

The NFL could do more in and around the game to promote the type of change they want, here are three easy ways:

1) Fund 2 graduate assistant positions (1 offense, 1 defense) specifically for Persons of Color at every D-1 school every 2 years. So, 120 schools, 2 each at $50k per is $100k per year for two years or $24 million over two years, which is chicken feed money for the league. Turn the positions over every 2 years and fix the problem of qualified minority coaches at the grass roots level and that will eventually lead to the type of coaching diversity they want. The biggest issue with Grad assistants is having enough money to work for free. The NFL funds two heads and that helps end that problem a great deal.

2) Sponsor BBQs between police and citizens. Sounds cheesy, but the police need to stop seeing citizens as nails and the people need to stop seeing police as hammers. Let's get to know each other.

3) Legalize marijuana for the players and be proactive in fighting the opioid problem both the league and the country have.

These are easy steps that would be supported both by players and the public alike.