Dallas Cowboys 2021 Offseason Thread: Fuck It All

[Vic Mackey 47010]

1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Can’t trade comp picks, right?

wonder if the other 2 3rds could get you into the 2nd again. Cosmi and ossai, or equivalent players at the positions, would be good. 

Yep you can trade them. They started this in the 2017 draft I believe. You used to not be able to trade them. I would love to move back into the 2nd rd and get another top 60 player.

[Vic Mackey 47010]

1 hour ago, markstanco said:

No, but an article I read last night says that may give the Cowboys the option to not give him his 5th year option on his contract. 

I hope we don't. He had these concerns in college, which is why he dropped. But Dallas being Dallas, we love these kinds of projects. And they fail time and time again. Clean our hands with LVE after this season and Jaylon soon after. 

And for the love of christ, upgrade the DT positon. 

[futureman 22444]

6 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

He had these concerns in college, which is why he dropped.

what were the concerns?  I don’t believe his spinal condition was known  until his second year in the league. 

[cmontexas 3270]

We need talent, take as many bites of the apple as possible. Some will miss, thats the nature of the game. I dont see anyone worth trading up for that's worth 2 or 3 guys

The early 90s teams missed on lots of high draft picks, but they had so many and competition was so fierce they could afford to cut ties with shitty picks

[Post Oak 20208]

If Parsons hits he's a nightmare.  If he misses he's a nightmare.

Fingers crossed

[C-Man 27185]

8 hours ago, Rholl said:

whats faster Parsons 40.... or Parson whipping his dick out to dry hump a team mate while said team mate was being held down??????    

I remember another time the Cowboys added a weird sexual deviant to the roster. Charles Haley worked out OK.

[C-Man 27185]

26 minutes ago, futureman said:

what were the concerns?  I don’t believe his spinal condition was known  until his second year in the league. 

Yeah, I seem to remember LVE was completely omitted from some teams' draft boards because of the back issue. Not sure if it showed up in pre-draft, combine physicals or what but I'm pretty sure there were medical red flags.

[gsoda3 3245]

5 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Yeah, I seem to remember LVE was completely omitted from some teams' draft boards because of the back issue. Not sure if it showed up in pre-draft, combine physicals or what but I'm pretty sure there were medical red flags.

LVE's medical flag during the draft was a past neck issue.  spinal stenosis discovery came a year or two later.

 

parson maintains good discipline in those highlights.  very much reminds me of jaylon smith except for that fact.  

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

43 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

I hope we don't. He had these concerns in college, which is why he dropped. But Dallas being Dallas, we love these kinds of projects. And they fail time and time again. Clean our hands with LVE after this season and Jaylon soon after. 

And for the love of christ, upgrade the DT positon. 

 

2 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

This is the best post you’ve had in a while. I emphatically agree with everything you just said. 

Knowing Dallas they'll hold on to LVE and Jaylon too long where they have no value.

[futureman 22444]

who are we taking in the 2nd?

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

1 minute ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Probably so. If they have bounce back years, why part ways? If they continue to struggle, they won’t have much value. It’s probably inevitable. 

If Jaylon has a bounce back year I'd try to accumulate as many picks as possible via trade. LVE I'd probably hold on to.

Edited April 30, 2021 by BurntOrange&White

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

Just now, futureman said:

who are we taking in the 2nd?

LT Sam Cosmi out of University of Texas!

[C-Man 27185]

12 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

LVE's medical flag during the draft was a past neck issue.  spinal stenosis discovery came a year or two later.

 

parson maintains good discipline in those highlights.  very much reminds me of jaylon smith except for that fact.  

That's right. Sorry. My main point remains though -- he had a medical red flag that resulted in more than one team wiping him completely off of their draft boards.

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

1 minute ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I really hope so. I wish we would’ve taken Slater over Parsons at 12.  But Parsons is growing on me considerably. We need line help on both sides of the ball. DL, and LB (to the extent Parsons can in fact get to the QB) are much more important than CB and I think we were saved last night by the surprise takes of both Horn and Surtain before us. 

I think Parson's is a really good pick. Ofc you have maturity issues but his talent is elite. Would allow for Smith to move to outside.

 

I also think Slater would have been a good pick. Tyrone Smith replacement should be drafted this year IMO but also Dickerson from Alabama would be a good pick for the Cowboys as well for the OL.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5792]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I really hope so. I wish we would’ve taken Slater over Parsons at 12.  But Parsons is growing on me considerably. We need line help on both sides of the ball. DL, and LB (to the extent Parsons can in fact get to the QB) are much more important than CB and I think we were saved last night by the surprise takes of both Horn and Surtain before us. 

Would be a great pick but I don't think he makes it that far 

[Wanker Bob 379]

7 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

LT Sam Cosmi out of University of Texas!

Too much deja vu for Jerry. 

They really need a corner with this next pick. Otherwise they're going to be starting Jordan Lewis out wide.  If there's a guy there worth jumping up for they should package their 2nd and either the pick from the Eagles or their 3rd round comp pick and move up to the front of this round. 

[Gene Parmesan 4002]

10 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

If Jaylon has a bounce back year I'd try to accumulate as many picks as possible via trade. LVE I'd probably hold on to.

Jaylon has sucked since that 2018 season.  Even if he can bounce back to being an average LB I doubt any team wants his contract.

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

1 minute ago, Wanker Bob said:

Too much deja vu for Jerry. 

They really need a corner with this next pick. Otherwise they're going to be starting Jordan Lewis out wide.  If there's a guy there worth jumping up for they should package their 2nd and either the pick from the Eagles or their 3rd round comp pick and move up to the front of this round. 

I'd say go OL in round 2 and go CB/S in round 3.

[Wanker Bob 379]

1 hour ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Yeah I'm less drunk and less pissed than last night. He's an athletic freak. Hopefully he can put it all together.

Didn't he switch positions or something at Penn St? Heard something about only playing LB for two years.

I read a few different scouting reports compare him to ND version of Jaylon Smith pre injury. Athletic freak who gets sideline to sideline and rushes the passer/makes plays in the backfield at a high level, but unfortunately like Jaylon Smith he's got issues with reading his cues and not guessing. More than one team had him chasing ghosts and his own shadow in a couple of games. That's where the coaching us going to have to come through, because if you waste 2 1st rounders and the 4th in the second round on LB in a 5 year period and still suck there that's indefensible. 

[Wanker Bob 379]

6 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I'd say go OL in round 2 and go CB/S in round 3.

OL is thought to be deeper in the draft in rounds 2-3 than corner. Especially a corner you're going to need to start week 1 or very close to it. It's such a pressing need they really need to trade up to 33/34 to make sure they get the best guy left for them. It wouldn't be such an issue if they had 1) given Jaylon Smith/Zeke money to Byron Jones or 2) addressed this is free agency last month, or 3) not been so damn shitty in evaluation when they tried to address this in 2017 with Chidobe in the 2nd and Lewis in the 3rd and got two busts. 

With how terribly McClay/Stephen/Jerry evaluate defense they need to get it now to have the best shot. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

I bet we use one of our 3rd rd picks to move up in the 2nd. Corner or best available DT

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

2 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I bet we use one of our 3rd rd picks to move up in the 2nd. Corner or best available DT

If Barmore is there at the first 2nd round pick, do you take him?

[futureman 22444]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

If Barmore is there at the first 2nd round pick, do you take him?

absolutely yes. but I bet he’s the first overall pick tonight. 

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

Two good linemen that could potentially be available

Landon Dickerson - Bama

Tevin Jenkins - Okie St

 

Defensive Linemen:

Christian Barmore - Bama

 

If any of those 3 are available I'd take them over a corner. Maybe use the second 2nd round pick on the TCU DB

 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

15 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

If Barmore is there at the first 2nd round pick, do you take him?

Fuck yes you take him. I’d be willing to trade up for him

[Wanker Bob 379]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I don’t want to call our fan base dumb because too many posters I respect have this opinion. But you, Wanker Bob, are a moron. You build from the inside out. Lineman are much more important than corners. 

You're living in 1983, man. In the modern game wherer everyone slings it corner is one of the premier importance positions along with rush end, OT, and QB. 

Then taking into account the cowboys have a giant hole at the corner spot opposite Diggs, and the draft is deeper in lineman for the next two rounds, it's obvious if there's a high second round grade corner available you jump up to take him

[gsoda3 3245]

barmore and jenkins won't be there.  but if they are you grab them without hesitation.  same goes for moehrig.

Edited April 30, 2021 by gsoda3

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I don’t mind taking a corner. I don’t mind taking multiple defensive backs. It’s a need. But not over DL, and not over OL. If you think I’m living in the last, you’re nuts. Get to the QB and stop the run will always be more important than having good coverage corners. 

The only thing that really hasn’t changed about the game is winning the trenches. 

[cmontexas 3270]

3 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

The only thing that really hasn’t changed about the game is winning the trenches. 

This. Corners aren't allowed to do anything besides tackle the WR after they catch the ball nowadays so the only way to stop the pass is to disrupt the rhythm of the passer

[Wanker Bob 379]

34 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

If Barmore is there at the first 2nd round pick, do you take him?

They're so terrible in the interior of the line it would make sense to get a DT there if there's one there that projects to be better than Gallimore/Hill/Woods. If there isn't an instant starter upgrade there then it's better to use it on the biggest weakness in defensive personnel IMO

[Wanker Bob 379]

24 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I don’t mind taking a corner. I don’t mind taking multiple defensive backs. It’s a need. But not over DL, and not over OL. If you think I’m living in the past, you’re nuts. Get to the QB and stop the run will always be more important than having good coverage corners. 

The majority of the league has gone to quick routes with far fewer long developing routes. Your interior DTs and ends need quality corners to give them that extra second to get to the quarterback. It's why there isn't a top 5 defense in the league that has a bad or even average defensive backfield. Of course the cowboys have bad defense at every level due to their terrible evaluations on defense so really they just need to hit on somebody at this point. 

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

2 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

The majority of the league has gone to quick routes with far fewer long developing routes. Your interior DTs and ends need quality corners to give them that extra second to get to the quarterback. It's why there isn't a top 5 defense in the league that has a bad or even average defensive backfield. Of course the cowboys have bad defense at every level due to their terrible evaluations on defense so really they just need to hit on somebody at this point. 

Oh yeah? Remind the Chiefs how their super bowl went with the banged up line they trotted out there and the defensive line from Tampa had a field day. Or the exceptional defensive lines the Giants and Eagles had vs the Patriots in their super bowl losses. 
 

offensive line and defensive line is what wins championships. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by BurntOrange&White

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

34 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

barmore and jenkins won't be there.  but if they are you grab them without hesitation.  same goes for moehrig.

That’s why I don’t hate the idea of trading up to grab barmore if he gets to within 6 picks of our pick.

[Jive Turkey 12594]

what disappoints me about taking Parsons doesn't have much to do with him as a player.  it's just the disappointment of not getting a CB when that's all we heard.  there was little, if any, threat that both Surtain and Horn would be gone by 10.  and it's disappointing that we are drafting another LB after we spent high draft picks on Jaylon and LVE in recent years.  that's not a position you'd think we'd need to worry about.  again, that has nothing to do with Parsons.

picking up a 3rd to get him was nice though, since it sounds like they would have taken him at 10.  we've got some picks to play around with if the Cowboys want to move up today to get a CB.  i expect some wheeling and dealing tonight.

[dcar00 14153]

25 minutes ago, cmontexas said:

This. Corners aren't allowed to do anything besides tackle the WR after they catch the ball nowadays so the only way to stop the pass is to disrupt the rhythm of the passer

2021 Superb Owl out front should have told ya...

[Post Oak 20208]

6 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

what disappoints me about taking Parsons doesn't have much to do with him as a player.  it's just the disappointment of not getting a CB when that's all we heard.  there was little, if any, threat that both Surtain and Horn would be gone by 10.  and it's disappointing that we are drafting another LB after we spent high draft picks on Jaylon and LVE in recent years.  that's not a position you'd think we'd need to worry about.  again, that has nothing to do with Parsons.

picking up a 3rd to get him was nice though, since it sounds like they would have taken him at 10.  we've got some picks to play around with if the Cowboys want to move up today to get a CB.  i expect some wheeling and dealing tonight.

I never would've imagined that both corners would be gone.  

Some years you end up with Ceedee Lamb and some years you end up with Micah Parsons

[Vic Mackey 47010]

4 hours ago, KeysPhoneWallet said:

 

I haven’t been following football closely in a bit so some of these may be dumb questions but, I was pissed when Denver took surtain, that would have been an amazing get for Dallas. I don’t know what to make of Micah, did he sit out due to covid? Does he have injury history?

I though jaylon got screwed by the change to Nolan’s scheme, are we still doing that ? Nolan seemed like he sucked.

Live has spinal stenosis ? I hadn’t heard that , I thought he just had some neck injury during the season. Is he done?

 

I believe he sat out due to Covid reasons. No injury history that I know of. I am not going to pretend to know much about Parsons as I don't keep up much with Penn St but many of the "experts" said he is more of a very talented raw athlete with unlimited potential (heard this about so many busts). That he can't cover as well as you'd like for today's game that has a heavy emphasis on passing. He also has off the field issues he has dealt with.

Jaylon fell of a cliff starting in 2019. Was Nolan here then? He had a fluke 2018 year and that's it. And of course Jerry had to extend him right after instead of letting him prove it again on the final year of his rookie deal. 

And spinal stenosis is what I see passed around by some. And that Dallas most likely will not give him the 5th year option. The injury is serious and he is extremely fragile. Sean Lee Pt 2. Except not even as close to Lee's talent. Drafting Parsons was a lot due to them knowing Jaylon and LVE are not long for this team and we desperately need someone here. Which sucks because it is 100% the front office and their stupid fucking drafting. In 2016 draft, we had a top 5 pick, meaning every round we drafted near the top. And what did we use the 2nd round pick on? A fucking gimp with serious injury concerns. We had no idea if he would ever play again. And even if he did, how good he would be. We waste so many picks it isn't funny. Especially in the 2nd round.

[Vic Mackey 47010]

26 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

what disappoints me about taking Parsons doesn't have much to do with him as a player.  it's just the disappointment of not getting a CB when that's all we heard.  there was little, if any, threat that both Surtain and Horn would be gone by 10.  and it's disappointing that we are drafting another LB after we spent high draft picks on Jaylon and LVE in recent years.  that's not a position you'd think we'd need to worry about.  again, that has nothing to do with Parsons.

picking up a 3rd to get him was nice though, since it sounds like they would have taken him at 10.  we've got some picks to play around with if the Cowboys want to move up today to get a CB.  i expect some wheeling and dealing tonight.

Denver and Carolina screwed us by what they did in the offseason. Both of those needed a QB. Both were on the radar for QBs in the draft but then both of them traded for QBs. Denver got Teddy B and Carolina got Darnold. Now they both can focus elsewhere and Horn and Surtain were at the top of the boards when those picks came. Any team ahead of us this year that filled their QB need in the offseason was a threat to take someone we wanted.

Of course they can spin it and tell us they actually had Parsons rated higher than Surtain and Horn (riiiiight) to sell this but I find this hard to believe. Even to the point where there was talks to move up in the draft to gran Parsons. This doesn't make sense because it was obvious Denver and Carolina were going to grab the 2 best DBs in the draft. There was no need at all to move up to get Parsons. LB is not valued to that extent.

When it's all said and done, we have had bad seasons that landed us top 10 picks. We have used it on a RB that won't be here for the long haul and now another LB.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

I think he can cover a lot better than you’re giving him credit for. 

[C-Man 27185]

39 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Oh yeah? Remind the Chiefs how their super bowl went with the banged up line they trotted out there and the defensive line from Tampa had a field day. Or the exceptional defensive lines the Giants and Eagles had vs the Patriots in their super bowl losses. 
 

offensive line and defensive line is what wins championships. 

This is 100% correct. Have a QB, protect the QB and disrupt the other guy's QB -- the three most important things to winning big in the NFL.

 

10 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

I believe he sat out due to Covid reasons. No injury history that I know of. I am not going to pretend to know much about Parsons as I don't keep up much with Penn St but many of the "experts" said he is more of a very talented raw athlete with unlimited potential (heard this about so many busts). That he can't cover as well as you'd like for today's game that has a heavy emphasis on passing. He also has off the field issues he has dealt with.

Jaylon fell of a cliff starting in 2019. Was Nolan here then? He had a fluke 2018 year and that's it. And of course Jerry had to extend him right after instead of letting him prove it again on the final year of his rookie deal. 

And spinal stenosis is what I see passed around by some. And that Dallas most likely will not give him the 5th year option. The injury is serious and he is extremely fragile. Sean Lee Pt 2. Except not even as close to Lee's talent. Drafting Parsons was a lot due to them knowing Jaylon and LVE are not long for this team and we desperately need someone here. Which sucks because it is 100% the front office and their stupid fucking drafting. In 2016 draft, we had a top 5 pick, meaning every round we drafted near the top. And what did we use the 2nd round pick on? A fucking gimp with serious injury concerns. We had no idea if he would ever play again. And even if he did, how good he would be. We waste so many picks it isn't funny. Especially in the 2nd round.

The difference between LVE and Sean Lee is that the former might have a career-threatening chronic issue that will have to babied his entire career, if it doesn't end it altogether. Lee's injuries were usually unrelated and fairly typical to injury-prone guys (torn pectoral, various knee injuries, etc).

[Machinator 32099]

 

[Vic Mackey 47010]

4 minutes ago, C-Man said:

This is 100% correct. Have a QB, protect the QB and disrupt the other guy's QB -- the three most important things to winning big in the NFL.

 

The difference between LVE and Sean Lee is that the former might have a career-threatening chronic issue that will have to babied his entire career, if it doesn't end it altogether. Lee's injuries were usually unrelated and fairly typical to injury-prone guys (torn pectoral, various knee injuries, etc).

And both of them could never be counted on to stay on the field. But at least Lee made a big impact when he got on the field. He was the QB of that defense. LVE had a fluke year like Jaylon in 2018 and the rest has been below average to downright bad.

Now could our LBs look better if our DL was better, particularly the DT? Maybe. Our DTs are weak and get pushed back so often to where our 2nd line is trying to overcome that and are out of position so often. Dallas will never figure out that the best way to build the defense. I get it, DBs and DE's are the flashy positions. They are high paying. But pressure up the middle does so much for a defense. DTs standing their own and pushing back does so much. But we don't value them or safety. And we wonder why we get gashed constantly. 

[TornACL 7698]

Everything we have on defense either sucks or is not fully proven or is about to get old so we should be going best available defensive player whenever possible. 

[LTtxfan 49143]

Here's a few possibilities for Cowboys at pick #44

• TCU Safety   Trevon Moehrig
• Florida State CB Asante Samuel Jr.
• Syracuse CB Ifeatu Melifonwu
• Notre Dame OT Liam Eichenberg
• Georgia CB Tyson Campbell
• Alabama DT Christian Barmore
• Georgia EDGE Azeez Ojulari
• Washington CB Elijah Molden
• Washington DT Levi Onwuzurike
• UCF S Richie Grant
• Oklahoma State OT Teven Jenkins
• Alabama C-OG Landon Dickerson
• Texas OT Samuel Cosmi
• Texas EDGE Joseph Ossai
• Oklahoma EDGE Ronnie Perkins
• Oregon, S Jevon Holland
• ND State, OT Dillon Radunz
• Wisconsin Whitewater OL Quinn Meinerz
• Oklahoma OL Creed Humphrey
• Wake Forest EDGE Carlos Basham Jr.
• Ohio State OL Wyatt Davis

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/gallery/2021-nfl-draft-best-available-players-day-2-2nd-3rd-round/

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by LTtxfan

[LTtxfan 49143]

TARS found this list...

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by LTtxfan

[Trey3216 15344]

36 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Here's a few possibilities for Cowboys at pick #44

• TCU Safety   Trevon Moehrig
• Florida State CB Asante Samuel Jr.
• Syracuse CB Ifeatu Melifonwu
• Notre Dame OT Liam Eichenberg
• Georgia CB Tyson Campbell
• Alabama DT Christian Barmore
• Georgia EDGE Azeez Ojulari
• Washington CB Elijah Molden
• Washington DT Levi Onwuzurike
• UCF S Richie Grant
• Oklahoma State OT Teven Jenkins
• Alabama C-OG Landon Dickerson
• Texas OT Samuel Cosmi
• Texas EDGE Joseph Ossai
• Oklahoma EDGE Ronnie Perkins
• Oregon, S Jevon Holland
• ND State, OT Dillon Radunz
• Wisconsin Whitewater OL Quinn Meinerz
• Oklahoma OL Creed Humphrey
• Wake Forest EDGE Carlos Basham Jr.
• Ohio State OL Wyatt Davis

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/gallery/2021-nfl-draft-best-available-players-day-2-2nd-3rd-round/

 

Supposedly Azeez Ojulari may have Chronic knee deterioration kinda like Ron Leary.    Not one I’d look at right now, but wouldn’t rule out the Cows looking at him.   

[Drew 2403]

They have 4 picks today.  I'd be shocked if they make all 4 picks.  Suspect they'll move up a little in the 2nd to get a guy(44 and 99 can get you to the top 5 picks tonight), and or they'll move back up into the 2nd or high 3rd to get a player they want.  

They'll probably end today with a 2 defenders and an OL, and they'll be one there way to addressing their biggest needs without doing anything crazy(even though I did NOT like the Parsons pick...the fact remains they HAD to add talent to the defense)

 

[LTtxfan 49143]

23 minutes ago, Drew said:

They have 4 picks today.  I'd be shocked if they make all 4 picks.  Suspect they'll move up a little in the 2nd to get a guy(44 and 99 can get you to the top 5 picks tonight), and or they'll move back up into the 2nd or high 3rd to get a player they want.  

They'll probably end today with a 2 defenders and an OL, and they'll be one there way to addressing their biggest needs without doing anything crazy(even though I did NOT like the Parsons pick...the fact remains they HAD to add talent to the defense)

 

 

Yeah, a Safety, CB, OL, and probably 1 DL... hopefully at least two see a lot of playing time in 2021.

Might have to package a couple picks twice today in order to get 4 of their quality targets in Rds 2 and 3 today.

So start with 10 picks entering today, make 4 selections and still have at least 4 picks remaining on Saturday...

Edited April 30, 2021 by LTtxfan

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

I think we’re going to look back at this parsons pick and realize we should’ve been gunning for parsons all along. The more I watch him, the more I feel like we can’t fuck this up if he’s taking his craft seriously. He made mistakes as an 18-19 year old kid. I think he’s going to get on the field and we’re all going to say “holy shit he’s fast sideline to sideline, he creates turnovers, he gets to the qb, he’s adequate in coverage, etc”. Yeah we could’ve got a linebacker in the 2nd or 3rd round, but definitely not one like this. I think the front office nailed it with this one, especially when you consider they probably would’ve taken him at 10.

[Vic Mackey 47010]

Spot on. They tell us they wanted Parsons all along yet they were going to draft several players ahead of him if all of them were available. Makes no sense. Parsons was their fall back pick. Which is not necessarily a bad thing.