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Posted (edited)

Bucs had a good defense.

Question is how does the Cowboys defense go from all-time bad to respectable with limited cap room.

And I wouldn't be surprised if Jerry drafts a OT with our 1st rounder in April.

Edited by Loch Ness Monster
Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 5:56 PM, Loch Ness Monster said:

Bucs had a really good defense.

Question is how does the Cowboys defense go from all-time bad to respectable with no cap room.

And I wouldn't be surprised if Jerry drafts a OT with our 1st rounder in April.

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Football gods, I don’t ask for much. Is it really asking too much for LVE to return to form, Diggs to take the next step, Galimore and Wilson improve, and we draft 1-2 players that can help us next year on defense? It is, isn’t it? Defensive players on the cowboys are only allowed to regress. Asking for them to improve is just asking too much. 

Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 4:14 PM, Vic Mackey said:
But but Dak is just a checkdown passer....Lmao. And his OL play has been pretty fucking bad aside from his rookie year.
 

Has anyone ever actually said this? I don’t recall even one post saying Dak is a “checkdown” passer.
Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 6:02 PM, Dr. Beeper said:

Lulz. TB’s roster was and is immeasurably better than the Cowboys. This is precisely why the Cowboys cannot afford it. And lol on the Brady - Dak comparison. 

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Wasn't comparing nor debating Dak vs Brady or Dallas vs Tampa. Just disputing the claim that "Teams set markets. Dallas does not have to participate, and shouldn’t have done so. In fact Super Bowl winning teams do not do this."

A team did in fact "do this" in terms of what's relevant here (% of the cap taken up by the QB).

That being said, I'm right there with you when it comes to doubting the Cowboys ability to manage the roster to a competitive, or dare I say it, championship level, with the added weight of Dak's contract hanging around their collective necks. But that would've been the case whether it was a top tier QB contract or a bottom of the basement contract like they had his 1st four years regardless. 

Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 6:06 PM, Hate said:


Has anyone ever actually said this? I don’t recall even one post saying Dak is a “checkdown” passer.

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  On 3/9/2021 at 6:12 PM, Catdaddyhorn said:

You must be new here. 

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No, he’s right. Ever since Kellen Moore took over in 2019 Dak hasn’t been a check down passer. Before then, Dak played it safer a lot more often. Vic is going back to takes that are over 1000 days old 

Posted

It’s the same stupid “gotcha” bullshit that Drew and Vic post that was never really argued about. Dak is an average to above average QB that can win if all of the right pieces are in place from coaching to roster. With his signing of this contract, it will/could make it more difficult to keep and/or sign impactful players, thus removing some of the necessary pieces for winning. He is not Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes or even Watson, imo. With Dak being signed today, they are no closer to winning a Super Bowl than if they had let him walk and begun a complete rebuild. Enjoy the meaningless stats that will be put up over the next several years as that will be all there will be to celebrate. Drew and Vic can come back in 5 years showing us all how Dak ranks in the top 5 in completion %, yards a and touchdowns and lament that only if the team was better around him the Cowboys may have won another playoff game. They will brag that Dak is the only reason they were .500 over those 5 years. Ok, but who gives a fuck?

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Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 7:17 PM, Hate said:

It’s the same stupid “gotcha” bullshit than Drew and Vic post that was never really argued about. Dak is an average to above average QB that can win if all of the right pieces are in place from coaching to roster. With his signing of this contract, it will/could make it more difficult to keep and/or sign impactful players, thus removing some of the necessary pieces for winning. He is not Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes or even Watson, imo. With Dak being signed today, they are no closer to winning a Super Bowl than if they had let him walk and begun a complete rebuild. Enjoy the meaningless stats that will be put up over the next several years as that will all there will be to celebrate. Drew and Vic can come back in 5 years showing us all how Dak ranks in the top 5 in completion %, yards a and touchdowns and lament that only if the team was better around him the Cowboys may have won another playoff game. They will brag that Dak is the only reason they were .500 over those 5 years. Ok, but who gives a fuck?

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put it on a stone tablet. 

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Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 6:50 PM, youdunnf'dup said:

 

No, he’s right. Ever since Kellen Moore took over in 2019 Dak hasn’t been a check down passer. Before then, Dak played it safer a lot more often. Vic is going back to takes that are over 1000 days old 

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He was literally 4th in the league in yards/attempt his rookie year. He was NEVER a check down passer. 

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Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 7:47 PM, Catdaddyhorn said:

He was literally 4th in the league in yards/attempt his rookie year. He was NEVER a check down passer. 

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ok? he still sucks. has accomplished nothing in five years while surrounded by talent. is propped up by misinformed and mentally-challenged fans. but no, it was a good signing. for sure. 

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Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 7:51 PM, futureman said:

ok? he still sucks. has accomplished nothing in five years while surrounded by talent. is propped up by misinformed and mentally-challenged fans. but no, it was a good signing. for sure. 

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Dude shut the fuck up already. Did Dak fuck your girlfriend or something? Your trolling was funny at one point, but it's become incessant hate at this point. Bring something substantive to the discussion or take your bitchass, pointless, and uninformed rants elsewhere. 

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Posted (edited)
  On 3/9/2021 at 7:47 PM, Catdaddyhorn said:

He was literally 4th in the league in yards/attempt his rookie year. He was NEVER a check down passer. 

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In 2017 he was 21st in the league in average air yards per attempt at 6.3 yards. In 2018, immediately after the year we “should have paid him” he was 16th at 7.5 air yards per attempt. 2016 was a magical year. If he kept trending up from there he would’ve won an MVP by now. I think even futureman was 100% all in on Dak after 2016 just like every other cowboys fan.
 

Also, FYI, air yards is the stat you’re looking for when talking about throwing down field. Not yards per attempt. 

Edited by youdunnf'dup
Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 7:59 PM, youdunnf'dup said:

In 2017 he was 21st in the league in average air yards per attempt at 6.3 yards. In 2018, immediately after the year we “should have paid him” he was 16th at 7.5 air yards per attempt. 2016 was a magical year. If he kept trending up from there he would’ve won an MVP by now. I think even futureman was 100% all in on Dak after 2016 just like every other cowboys fan.
 

Also, FYI, air yards is the stat you’re looking for when talking about throwing down field. Not yards per attempt. 

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He was pining for Mike White the minute that season ended and he wanted Romo to take over at the end of that season. 

Posted (edited)
  On 3/9/2021 at 8:09 PM, Catdaddyhorn said:

He was pining for Mike White the minute that season ended and he wanted Romo to take over at the end of that season. 

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Haha Fair enough. Just saying you gotta use the right stat if you’re gonna make an argument like that. Romo got 65 yards for this attempt on his yards per attempt average for the season

 

Edited by youdunnf'dup
Posted (edited)
  On 3/9/2021 at 8:11 PM, youdunnf'dup said:

Haha Fair enough. Just saying you gotta use the right stat if you’re gonna make an argument like that. Romo got 65 yards on his yards per attempt average on this play 

 

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The rebuttal was specifically in reference to calling him a check down QB. Linehan-Dak was, if anything, an intermediate passer. He killed in that 7 to 15 yard range. Especially with Beasely. I think more than anything Kellen Moore did after Linehan, that solitary season with John Kitna changed Dak from a safe, no risk it QB, to more of a go for it guy. Leading up to Kinta's season as the QB coach there were a lot of videos of him bouncing around here. And the #1`trait he dispensed in all those videos was about QBs needing to be playmakers. He referenced Mike Martz influence on him and how he changed the trajectory of his career. 

Edited by Catdaddyhorn
Posted

Dak is good but would even rate him a tier below Romo.

That said I would rather have Dak at his price tag than Zeke, Jaylon Smith, Cooper, or DLaw at what they're making.

Our offense will likely be top 10 many of the next four years but the defense seems almost helpless right now. And we still have Fat Mike as our head coach and Jerry/Stephen as the GM.

Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 8:58 PM, Dr. Beeper said:

People who get riled up have no clue how to properly react and are so riled they fail to see the genius and comedy. 

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Yeah it's complete genius. "Hey guys I'm going to litter every Cowboys thread (except for game threads in games he plays well) with inane posts about how much the QB sucks and how he's absolute trash. Hey guys look at me, I'm a genius."

Posted (edited)

Think what's scary is QB situations like Chicago, the Jets, Browns, Bills before Josh Allen. Might have to legit cycle through QBs for 20 years to find the next guy.

Would definitely rather have a HOF QB but would say Zeke/Jaylon Smith and drafting busts on defense is the bigger issue. Romo and Dak having to carry the franchise is on Jerry and the front office.

Not sure its Dak fault they picked Taco over JJ Watt, drafted Trysten Hill and Mr Glass 2.0 LVE. Paid Jaylon Smith. Decided a RB was more important than drafting Jaylen Ramsey or paying Byron Jones. The list goes on and on. 

Edited by Loch Ness Monster
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Posted (edited)
  On 3/9/2021 at 3:04 AM, C-Man said:


giphy.gif

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Says the guy who has NO idea how the Salary Cap or QB markets work.  Just wait and see worse QB's than Dak blow past him over the summer.  Dak will literally be the 5th highest paid QB by training camp and 7th or 8th by next offseason.  This will be a bargain by then.

  On 3/9/2021 at 5:09 AM, Vic Mackey said:

When did I ever mention the deal? I am not some salary cap dork. This isn't my money. I don't give a damn. I simply said from the jump Dak would be signed here. He did and I am happy. All your tears are glorious.

 

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Exactly.

  On 3/9/2021 at 5:04 PM, Catdaddyhorn said:

No it's not. No one other than the Joneses are paying a single red cent towards Dak's contract. The only thing anyone other than them cares about is how much his contract affects the cap. 

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Fucking THIS.  The Cap hit is ALL that matters.  22.5 mil this year is LESS than Goff/Wentz, Teddy Bridgewater AND Timmy G.  Dak is better than ALL of them.  Jesus.

  On 3/9/2021 at 5:52 PM, Catdaddyhorn said:

With a $180 million cap, Dak's cap charge for the upcoming year will be about 12.2% of the cap which coincidentally happens to be the exact same % charge that Tom Brady had on the Buccaneers' cap last season. 

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Yeah this whole myth that a QB can't take up more than a certain % of the cap has been overblown for years.  Now that Dak is BELOW that % people are still saying he's taking up too much cap?!?

  On 3/9/2021 at 7:47 PM, Catdaddyhorn said:

He was literally 4th in the league in yards/attempt his rookie year. He was NEVER a check down passer. 

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Absolutely, except in 2017 when he had NO weapons in he 2nd fucking year. But apparently he's supposed to be a future HOFer and Manning in his prime by year 2.

  On 3/9/2021 at 7:59 PM, youdunnf'dup said:

In 2017 he was 21st in the league in average air yards per attempt at 6.3 yards. In 2018, immediately after the year we “should have paid him” he was 16th at 7.5 air yards per attempt. 2016 was a magical year. If he kept trending up from there he would’ve won an MVP by now. I think even futureman was 100% all in on Dak after 2016 just like every other cowboys fan.
 

Also, FYI, air yards is the stat you’re looking for when talking about throwing down field. Not yards per attempt. 

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Yes in 2017 when he literally had NO weapons.  Broken down Dez, old slow Witten, body catching aging Williams, and a short slot receiver.  2017 is literally the ONLY year anyone can hold against Dak and completely forget he was a 2nd year player, in a run first offense that lost it's RB and behind an OL that was falling apart. 

  On 3/9/2021 at 8:22 PM, Loch Ness Monster said:

Dak is good but would even rate him a tier below Romo.

That said I would rather have Dak at his price tag than Zeke, Jaylon Smith, Cooper, or DLaw at what they're making.

Our offense will likely be top 10 many of the next four years but the defense seems almost helpless right now. And we still have Fat Mike as our head coach and Jerry/Stephen as the GM.

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You said before you werent, but  yes, you ARE a Dak hater.  You claim not to be then post this garbage.  Even if you think Romo was better, he was not a entire fucking tier above him.  Dak has done as much as Romo had, if not MORE, in his first 4 years.

  On 3/9/2021 at 10:10 PM, immamac said:

Dak is not worth this money. The NFL is full of horribly run orgs. Laughable how little anyone learned from Tom Brady. 

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He's not wroth 22.5 mil against the cap this year? 33 mil next year? If they don't renegotiate(as I suspect) in year 3, then he'll finally be 40 mil a year.  But guess what? The TV money hits before then and the cap will explode.  

This deal is literally a WIN fucking WIN since the Cowboys were able to make Dak's cap hits extremely manageable, while also paying Dak what he DESERVED and EARNED.

People hating on this are fucking biased as shit and just grasping as straws.  You guys are no better than Futureman trolling so much he actually believes the shit he spews.

Edited by Drew
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Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 10:10 PM, immamac said:

Dak is not worth this money. The NFL is full of horribly run orgs. Laughable how little anyone learned from Tom Brady. 

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So marry a supermodel who makes more than any NFL player? I agree, why don't they all just do that? Nobody in the NFL is "worth the money" but the money is there and the players drive most of that revenue, so yeah, the most important player on the field should be paid a lot. I'm not interested in a revolving door at QB and feeling "well at lease we didn't overpay anyone."

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Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 11:19 PM, 'stache said:

So marry a supermodel who makes more than any NFL player? I agree, why don't they all just do that? Nobody in the NFL is "worth the money" but the money is there and the players drive most of that revenue, so yeah, the most important player on the field should be paid a lot. I'm not interested in a revolving door at QB and feeling "well at lease we didn't overpay anyone."

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People who bring up Brady are fucking clueless. So because Brady makes less than his wife and chooses to get paid way less than he is worth, everyone else should follow suit. Fuck that.Every player should bleed these greedy owners for all they can before their careers are done. They are putting in the work and risking life changing injuries. 

Who cares about Brady. He is a huge deviation from the mean. I don't even bother listening to anyone who constantly brings him up during these contract ordeals.

No,no other player is taking a paycut when they have leverage and wants to get paid big. Why should they? I love the freakout over these contracts when the owners do absolutely nothing and and rake in a shit ton a year that make their salaries seem like peanuts.

Posted

@Drew I don’t know if you realize this but you don’t have to quote 4-6 people every time you post. Certain things you can just... let go. 
 

And to you and @Catdaddyhorn ‘s point, I actually agree with y’all about why he was checking down. But the facts are, those years he was checking down a shit ton. Was it Linehan/Garrett influence? Was it not having a true number one for 7 games that year? Was it injuries to Tyron smith? Was it all of the above? Probably. My only point was don’t tell me he didn’t check down a lot when he was 21st and 16th in the league in air yards those years. We can talk about the why all day if we want. My ORIGINAL point was that he’s now one of the leaders in the league in air yards because of Kellen Moore’s influence. That change at offensive coordinator was a big part of unlocking Dak’s potential, and there’s probably only one cowboys fan alive who’s dumb enough to not understand that. He just so happens to be in this thread.l constantly spewing 3 year old takes that weren’t entirely inaccurate at the time (excuses and all).

Posted (edited)
  On 3/9/2021 at 11:48 PM, youdunnf'dup said:

@Drew I don’t know if you realize this but you don’t have to quote 4-6 people every time you post. Certain things you can just... let go. 
 

And to you and @Catdaddyhorn ‘s point, I actually agree with y’all about why he was checking down. But the facts are, those years he was checking down a shit ton. Was it Linehan/Garrett influence? Was it not having a true number one for 7 games that year? Was it injuries to Tyron smith? Was it all of the above? Probably. My only point was don’t tell me he didn’t check down a lot when he was 21st and 16th in the league in air yards those years. We can talk about the why all day if we want. My ORIGINAL point was that he’s now one of the leaders in the league in air yards because of Kellen Moore’s influence. That change at offensive coordinator was a big part of unlocking Dak’s potential, and there’s probably only one cowboys fan alive who’s dumb enough to not understand that. He just so happens to be in this thread.l constantly spewing 3 year old takes that weren’t entirely inaccurate at the time (excuses and all).

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For clarification Dak was 14th in 2018 with guys like Nick Mullens and Fitzpatrick ranking ahead of him who both only played 8 games that year. I dont know, but falling outside of the top half of the league once in 5 years hardly denotes the moniker of a checkdown QB to me, but you do you.  

Edited by Catdaddyhorn
Posted

Reminds me of the time my wife spent $600 on sheets. If we were fucking like we did in our 20's, I could see it. But now all we do is read books and sleep. The $600 sheets ain't gonna make it any better.

I'd rather have the kid from Alabama. 

Posted
  On 3/10/2021 at 12:23 AM, Woodrow Call said:

Reminds me of the time my wife spent $600 on sheets. If we were fucking like we did in our 20's, I could see it. But now all we do is read books and sleep. The $600 sheets ain't gonna make it any better.

I'd rather have the kid from Alabama. 

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Your wife's gonna be pissed when she comes home and finds a kid from Alabama on her $600 sheets. 

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Posted (edited)
  On 3/9/2021 at 10:10 PM, immamac said:

Dak is not worth this money. The NFL is full of horribly run orgs. Laughable how little anyone learned from Tom Brady. 

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giphy.gif 

 

Yeah, expecting the Jones' to handle this DAK situation correctly is the hopes of "Fools". 

I have younger family members that are die-hard Cowboys fans and don't remember the Super Bowl wins in the 1990's -- not sure they'll ever see it happen while the Jones are running the " COWBOYS SHOW".

 

But I will still tune in on Sunday's and keep watching and pulling for the COWBOYS.  😋

Edited by LTtxfan
Posted (edited)
  On 3/10/2021 at 12:09 AM, Catdaddyhorn said:

For clarification Dak was 14th in 2018 with guys like Nick Mullens and Fitzpatrick ranking ahead of him who both only played 8 games that year. I dont know, but falling outside of the top half of the league once in 5 years hardly denotes the moniker of a checkdown QB to me, but you do you.  

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I swear you twist my words almost as bad as drew if I don’t say something that lines up with exactly what you’re saying. I’m not even dissing Dak when I made my original point. The main point that I was making was ever since Kellen Moore took over 3 fucking years ago, he’s one of the best in the league with air yards.

Remember where this started. Vic was making a ridiculous call back to something that nobody has said about Dak in over 3 years. You then said he’s never been a check down qb at any point in his career. I then gave you two years where he checked down a ton, one of which where he checked down probably more than any competent starting qb.

Checking down does not equate to bad unless that’s how you feel like spinning it. I swear, man. Some of y’all ride Daks dick so hard you pick and choose what you want to hear without thinking about context. I am not disagreeing with you regarding Dak and the caliber of qb he is. You’re arguing against facts and you’re getting defensive that I literally gave you a stat that refutes your “he’s never been a check down qb” claim lol. I bet if you asked Dak, he’d say “earlier in my career I should’ve thrown downfield more”

Edited by youdunnf'dup
Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 11:27 PM, Vic Mackey said:

People who bring up Brady are fucking clueless. So because Brady makes less than his wife and chooses to get paid way less than he is worth, everyone else should follow suit. Fuck that.Every player should bleed these greedy owners for all they can before their careers are done. They are putting in the work and risking life changing injuries. 

Who cares about Brady. He is a huge deviation from the mean. I don't even bother listening to anyone who constantly brings him up during these contract ordeals.

No,no other player is taking a paycut when they have leverage and wants to get paid big. Why should they? I love the freakout over these contracts when the owners do absolutely nothing and and rake in a shit ton a year that make their salaries seem like peanuts.

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When was the last cowboys playoff win? ah yes 2018, and before that? right right right, 2014. Oh shit, what about before that? ohhhhh you got me 2009. 

Seems like a really well run organization. Would definitely bet on them winning a playoff game this season.

Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 10:10 PM, immamac said:

Dak is not worth this money. The NFL is full of horribly run orgs. Laughable how little anyone learned from Tom Brady. 

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Brady is an outlier.  Literally the GOAT who took team friendly deals to make sure he had pieces necessary for sustained excellence.  Am I missing the plethora of franchise QBs out there willing to take less than market value?

Posted (edited)
  On 3/10/2021 at 12:38 AM, youdunnf'dup said:

I swear you twist my words almost as bad as drew if I don’t say something that lines up with exactly what you’re saying. I’m not even dissing Dak when I made my original point. The main point that I was making was ever since Kellen Moore took over 3 fucking years ago, he’s one of the best in the league with air yards.

Remember where this started. Vic was making a ridiculous call back to something that nobody has said about Dak in over 3 years. You then said he’s never been a check down qb at any point in his career. I then gave you two years where he checked down a ton, one of which where he checked down probably more than any competent starting qb.

Checking down does not equate to bad unless that’s how you feel like spinning it. I swear, man. Some of y’all ride Daks dick so hard you pick and choose what you want to hear without thinking about context. I am not disagreeing with you regarding Dak and the caliber of qb he is. You’re arguing against facts and you’re getting defensive that I literally gave you a stat that refutes your “he’s never been a check down qb” claim lol. I bet if you asked Dak, he’d say “earlier in my career I should’ve thrown downfield more”

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How am I twisting your words? You cited 2 years as examples to a claim where you and I disagreed, one of which you incorrectly placed him lower than he was. Why am I the bad guy for pointing that out? If we disagree, how am I......checks notes.....riding Dak's dick for explaining why I disagree? This is a message board for goodness sakes. What are we doing here if not to debate things we disagree on? 

Edited by Catdaddyhorn
Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 7:57 PM, Catdaddyhorn said:

Dude shut the fuck up already. Did Dak fuck your girlfriend or something? Your trolling was funny at one point, but it's become incessant hate at this point. Bring something substantive to the discussion or take your bitchass, pointless, and uninformed rants elsewhere. 

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I more or less agree with him that this signing set the organization back 3 years at least, probably 4 or 5, but yea...change his name to Piers Morgan because apparently Dak ghosted him after a single night of martinis to hear him talk about Dak.

Posted
  On 3/10/2021 at 12:44 AM, immamac said:

When was the last cowboys playoff win? ah yes 2018, and before that? right right right, 2014. Oh shit, what about before that? ohhhhh you got me 2009. 

Seems like a really well run organization. Would definitely bet on them winning a playoff game this season.

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No one would argue that the Cowboys are a well run organization.  But paying a shit ton for their franchise QB is not evidence of that fact.  Now the Zeke deal...

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Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 10:10 PM, immamac said:

Dak is not worth this money. The NFL is full of horribly run orgs. Laughable how little anyone learned from Tom Brady. 

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Lulz what’s the lesson to learn - draft the GOAT in round 6?

So who are your super-sleepers in this years’ draft?

Posted (edited)
  On 3/10/2021 at 1:52 AM, Ignatius said:

Lulz what’s the lesson to learn - draft the GOAT in round 6?

So who are your super-sleepers in this years’ draft?

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The real lesson is do one of two things. Get lucky with a reclamation project like the Titans did with tannehill, or find a way for Dak to drop his girl and date someone who makes more than everyone in the NFL like Giselle. 
 

Or just hope Dak continues to improve and accept that this is the going rate for a top 10 qb. The only somewhat valid argument is that we shouldn’t have paid him because of how far away we are from being a contender. With the coach we have, the contracts we have, and the roster we have, we might be more than 3-4 years away from truly contending. But saying “he doesn’t deserve that kind of money” isn’t a valid argument. He does deserve that kind of contract. He’s proven he’s a franchise qb. It’s just, MAYBE we shouldn’t have been that team to pay him. If a team that was a qb away gave him that kind of money, nobody would bat and eye. We just have to pray to the football gods we can actually draft good defensive players. 

Edited by youdunnf'dup
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