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Dallas Cowboys 2021 Offseason Thread: Fuck It All

Vic Mackey

By Vic Mackey
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Wanker Bob
Wanker Bob

The cowboys are always about the worst odds to take. Vegas knows they don't have to dangle good or great odds to get the hordes of idiot cowboy fan money to flood in. 

Wanker Bob
Wanker Bob

Too much deja vu for Jerry.  They really need a corner with this next pick. Otherwise they're going to be starting Jordan Lewis out wide.  If there's a guy there worth jumping up for they should

Wanker Bob
Wanker Bob

I read a few different scouting reports compare him to ND version of Jaylon Smith pre injury. Athletic freak who gets sideline to sideline and rushes the passer/makes plays in the backfield at a high

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 48979

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https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2021/2/1/22259020/seven-cowboys-draft-target-who-flew-under-the-radar-at-the-senior-bowl-charles-snowden-marvin-wilson

  • Alaric Jackson, OT, Iowa
  • Levi Onwuzurike, DT, Washington
  • Marvin Wilson, DT, Florida State
  • Hamilcar Rashed Jr., EDGE, Oregon State
  • Charles Snowden, LB, Virginia
  • Bryan Mills, CB, North Carolina Central
  • Divine Deablo, S, Virginia Tech

 

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Drew

Drew 2331

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On 2/4/2021 at 6:05 PM, DougO said:

It's really impossible to tell for absolute certain considering they both played for such shitty organizations and coaching staffs.

That's a fair point, and why the "Desaun is clearly better than Dak" Arguments fall flat.  Won't vehemently disagree with anyone saying Watson is better.  But leave the "significantly" shit out of it(not directed at you)

On 2/4/2021 at 7:35 PM, youdunnf'dup said:

Dak has elevated his game to the point where now he’s in ear shot of Watson. That’s because he’s had more stability and A LOT more around him. It’s given him a chance to grow and evolve as a player over his career. 
 

If there was ever a point where Watson had arguably the best rb in the league, and a top 5 offensive line for the majority of his career, watson would be Russell Wilson by now. Watson has dealt with a shit show for his entire career and he’s had to carry that organization from the moment he put on a Texans uniform. He hasn’t really been given a chance to grow as a player. He’s always just kinda had to wing it. IMO Watson’s ceiling is a lot higher than Dak’s.

For the record, I feel that exact same way about Josh Allen too, but we’ve only seen it for one year. But similar to Dak, as soon as josh Allen was given a number one wr, he was unlocked. He put an MVP caliber season, leading his team to one game away from the super bowl. I’ve heard plenty of cowboys homers talk like you’re talking right now, but it’s just not true. Not yet. Watson is better than Dak. I’m not gonna sit here and say I think he’s a lot better than Dak, but he’s a tier better than Dak. Any GM in America would say that. If Jerry thought Dak was as good as Watson he would’ve given him a blank check by now and said name your price. 
 

Its why we absolutely need to pay Dak before the bills pay Josh Allen. If that doesn’t happen, and this thing drags on past March, we’re fucked.

I think we continue to overrated the OL.  It has NOT been a top 5 since 2016.  They were without Tyron Smith for most of 2017, and had a revolving door at LG for that season too.  2018 we didn't have Fredrick and Dak was the 2nd most sacked QB in the league that year(behind Watson).  2019 was a average year for that OL with Fredrick not being back completely 100%(and he retired) and LG, once again, was a revolving Door.

This isn't response isn't about Dak vs Watson, but about this myth that the OL was Top 5/Elite for "most of his career". It's simply wasn't the case, it's a perception.

On 2/5/2021 at 9:50 AM, C-Man said:

Don't get me wrong. Dak is pretty good. I just don't think he's worth what he is going to be paid. He's borderline Top 10 QB IMO. I think Watson is better. I wonder how many NFL GM's would trade Watson straight-up for Dak today?

Probably most since everyone already has perceptions and biases created.  You think most GM's would prefer a guy they had a 1st round grade on over a 4th rounder? This isn't Wentz/Goff who we KNOW Dak and Watson are better than. These are comparable QB's.  Watson has elite athleticism and can create outside the play more than Dak, while dak has been much more consistent from the pocket.  It's really a coin flip to everyone who doesn't already ahve priors.

On 2/5/2021 at 10:10 AM, C-Man said:

Watson might not be elite today. But he's better than Dak today and may not have reached his ceiling. I think we've seen Dak's best.

I think this a massive overstatement as has been said by others on here.  Not just me. They are really close to each other and lots of smart folks would say Dak is better.  I don't think EITHER guy has maxed out, and I'm shocked you'd say a 27 year old QB who we've seen show tangible improvement every single season since 2017 has shown us his "best".

On 2/5/2021 at 10:25 AM, Patrick Bateman said:

Dak still has a ways to go in reading defenses, at the LOS and in play.  This is often done with game reps and film work and QBs, as they gather experience, generally get better at this.  At least the ones who stick around do.  How quickly he deciphers information, translates it and makes a decision can always get better as he understands things to look for better.  Dak is 27 years old.  He can absolutely get better and probably will.  Same with Watson but most of their potential improvement will be mental, not physical.  They were probably physically maxed out a few years ago.  

 

All of this.  He's already progressed to becoming a pocket passer and isn't done growing. He'll be better at 33-35(like Romo was) than he today when the game really starts slowing down for these Vet QB's

On 2/5/2021 at 10:28 AM, youdunnf'dup said:

I get that, but I think it’s safe to assume that Dak is about to start losing some of his athleticism. 
 

Just to be clear, I’m very clearly in the pay Dak whatever it’s going to take to get it done, camp. It would just be nice if we did it before the bills paid josh Allen. 

And?  He already was running less than we all wanted him to as he's become a much better and more consistent passer from the pocket.  Not sure why losing your athleticism is a bad thing for a QB because you get hurt more when you do.

 

And ABSOTUTLY agree that they need to get this done before Allen and Lamar and those guys get paid.

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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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@Drew you keep saying that about the Oline, but it’s just not true. PFF has had us graded as a top 5 offensive line every year Dak’s career besides last year. I’m not basing this off of your eye test or my eye test. I basing this off of what the people that do this for a living say. PFF doesn’t go off of reputation. They go off of performance. Even in 2019, our offensive line wasn’t as good as it was in Dak’s rookie year, but when compared to offensive lines around the league, PFF still had us firmly in the top 5. If Tyron Smith retires and we don’t find a legit replacement, it’s probably not anymore. But if our tackles come back healthy, WHILE they are healthy (which I get probably won’t be for an extended period of time) it’s still a top 5 offensive line.
 

Coming into the season when everyone was healthy PFF had us graded as the 4th best offensive line behind Indy, New Orleans, and Green Bay. Most teams don’t have good offensive lines. I feel like you don’t fully understand that sometimes when you say he hasn’t had a top 5 oline. 

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Drew

Drew 2331

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Yeah PFF has some major issues(we've already seen many experts call out their grading system before) so I take it with a grain of salt.  I've seen way too many people with lots of experience call them out and also say the OL has been judged based on past accomplishments for years.  

And I'm sorry, the OL was horrendous in 2017 and maybe worse in 2018(You can tell me Dak took sacks, but he didn't take 40+ sacks on his own...while every other year he didn't get sacked even a league average number of times). Any system saying it was Top 5 either of those years needs to be examined closer.

But if you want to put all your faith in PFF go ahead. It's perception and confirmation bias, as are most opinions.  You THINK something is good, so you believe it is.  No different than the SEC SEC SEC myth outside of Bama.  People think the entire conference is head and shoulders above and they adjust their perceptions to make it the case.

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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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9 minutes ago, Drew said:

Yeah PFF has some major issues(we've already seen many experts call out their grading system before) so I take it with a grain of salt.  I've seen way too many people with lots of experience call them out and also say the OL has been judged based on past accomplishments for years.  

And I'm sorry, the OL was horrendous in 2017 and maybe worse in 2018(You can tell me Dak took sacks, but he didn't take 40+ sacks on his own...while every other year he didn't get sacked even a league average number of times). Any system saying it was Top 5 either of those years needs to be examined closer.

But if you want to put all your faith in PFF go ahead. It's perception and confirmation bias, as are most opinions.  You THINK something is good, so you believe it is.  No different than the SEC SEC SEC myth outside of Bama.  People think the entire conference is head and shoulders above and they adjust their perceptions to make it the case.

I dont blindly trust anyone. I just know they evaluate talent for a living. I don’t use PFF for confirmation bias. There are times where I look at something they say sideways, but at the end the day I take a step back and say “I’m just a dipshit that likes to think I know football, but I don’t watch the all 22 of every single team over and over again every single week like these guys do”. So generally speaking, I’m going to trust their evaluation over anyone’s eye test. That’s all I’m saying. You say the oline has been horrendous but you don’t watch the all 22 of every single team, so all you have to compare it on is our oline when it was one of the best ever. You’re wrong on this one drew. 

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Surly Bevo

Surly Bevo 24696

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10 minutes ago, Radical Larry said:

 

 

It's about time. 

Hell yea it was.  I guess they finally realized if they were putting Megatron and his short ass career in (not saying that he doesn’t belong) it was going to be pretty god damn ridiculous if a guy from the All 70S Team was still sitting around with his dick in his hands

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Had Enough

Had Enough 2057

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I dont blindly trust anyone. I just know they evaluate talent for a living. I don’t use PFF for confirmation bias. There are times where I look at something they say sideways, but at the end the day I take a step back and say “I’m just a dipshit that likes to think I know football, but I don’t watch the all 22 of every single team over and over again every single week like these guys do”. So generally speaking, I’m going to trust their evaluation over anyone’s eye test. That’s all I’m saying. You say the oline has been horrendous but you don’t watch the all 22 of every single team, so all you have to compare it on is our oline when it was one of the best ever. You’re wrong on this one drew. 
As long as they consistently apply their standards, it's for sure a tool for evaluation and comparison.

I don't know for certain but I would assume 4 of 5 guys could grade out perfectly on a given play yet the 5th guy screw it up. That could skew the overall perception. One aspect of pass protection that is overlooked is how many guys fail on a given play. Pretty much all QBs are able to avoid one guy, but it's a different ballgame when multiple defenders beat their guys and do it consistently.
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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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31 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

As long as they consistently apply their standards, it's for sure a tool for evaluation and comparison.

I don't know for certain but I would assume 4 of 5 guys could grade out perfectly on a given play yet the 5th guy screw it up. That could skew the overall perception. One aspect of pass protection that is overlooked is how many guys fail on a given play. Pretty much all QBs are able to avoid one guy, but it's a different ballgame when multiple defenders beat their guys and do it consistently.

This is kind of how I feel about them. They have no bias. They clearly don’t go off of reputation. They have the things they look for and they stay consistent with their evaluations. So whether you agree with what they’re saying or not, sometimes you just have to take a step back and realize you may have your biases. They don’t. 

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Gucci_Suit

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Gonna be hilarious watching other teams participate in free agency, draft good players, get better, while we fuck around trying to re-sign our own role players, figure out how to overpay our overrated qb, and struggle to make the mortgage payments on our fat slow running back. 

But other than that, I think the future is bright. We dem Boyz!

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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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On 2/8/2021 at 11:31 AM, Gucci_Suit said:

Gonna be hilarious watching other teams participate in free agency, draft good players, get better, while we fuck around trying to re-sign our own role players, figure out how to overpay our overrated qb, and struggle to make the mortgage payments on our fat slow running back. 

But other than that, I think the future is bright. We dem Boyz!

GIF by Karl's Bait & Tackle
 

trying to catch you a Drew, I see. Let’s see if they’re biting. 

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Gucci_Suit

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Yeah, defense is solid. DL wrecking shop, linebackers healthy, secondary playing lights out. Offense... receivers making plays, running game anchored by our stud, OL young & healthy as fuck. All we need to do is sign our franchise QB to a 50 year deal. It’s our only gap to fill. 

...Or maybe just let homeboy walk. 

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Patrick Bateman

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2 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

An ESPN talking head said we scored only two points a game more last year than we did this season. 

Can't be true considering we lost Drew's greatest QB of all time and our whole OL. 

Dak's starts -- 32.6 PPG

Other QB starts -- 21.1 PPG

2019 -- 27.1 PPG

What's the point you're making?  We definitely were better the 5-6 games as the schedule lightened especially with other teams like SF & Bengals being crushed by injury as well.  And there's a lot of context which goes into those stats including injuries, unforced turnovers, the rest of the team, etc.  But I don't understand what you're trying to say?

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futureman

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Posted (edited)

 

13 hours ago, Drew said:

Yeah anyone who says "overrated" or "average" QB isn't drawing me offsides anymore.  

At lease you guys try to make solid points.

he is overrated and average. there is a level of quarterback in the league that actually wins stuff with a solid roster around them. dak is on the level of perennial failure while surrounded by an excellent roster. there is no way to even try to argue against me. none. quarterback rating in losses is a fun stat, but it doesn’t mean anything. 

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LTtxfan

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What teams would be good candidates for sign and trade deal for Dak, and what could Dallas reasonably expect to get back in the trade??

 

Schefter Explains Dak Prescott-Cowboys Contract, Franchise Tag, Trade Situation

ROB GOLDBERG.   JANUARY 28, 2021

The Dallas Cowboys could trade Dak Prescott after placing the franchise tag on him this offseason, but the quarterback would need to agree to any deal.

ESPN's Adam Schefter explained the situation Thursday (1:05):

"That would be his unofficial no-trade clause. They could not just trade him without his consent."   As Mike Greenberg noted, 17 NFL players have been traded while on the franchise tag, and 15 have gone on to sign new deals after being dealt.  However, Matt Cassel is the only quarterback ever to be traded after being tagged, moving from the New England Patriots to Kansas City Chiefs in 2009.

Prescott played last season on the franchise tag after the two sides were unable to agree on a long-term contract. He ended up with a one-year tender worth $31.4 million, and he could be a free agent this offseason unless the Cowboys either use the tag again or sign him to a new contract.

The 27-year-old played only five games in 2020 before going down with a compound right ankle fracture and dislocation, but he was on a historic pace with 371.2 passing yards per game. It came after totaling 4,902 passing yards in 2019, second-most in the NFL, while leading the No. 1 offense in yards gained.

Dallas struggled without him and finished the season 6-10 with the No. 14 offense in the league.  "I don't know how you could have any more leverage," owner Jerry Jones said of Prescott on 105.3 The Fan earlier this month (h/t Todd Archer of ESPN).

A trade could help both parties if the quarterback does not want to return to the Cowboys. Dak could force his way to a better situation while Dallas could recoup some assets.

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Loch Ness Monster

Loch Ness Monster 3533

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When Dak was available for all 16 games in 2019 we finished with a 8-8 record and Dak was way cheaper.

Even with Dak in 2020 we were on pace for a 6-8 win season. We have so many holes in the roster.

Anyone feel good about paying Dak all the money and running it back with the current crew + a few draft picks? Think Dakota is a good QB but how can he make more than Brady, Russell Wilson, and Aaron Rodgers and expect to realistically compete? Especially with all the bad contracts Jerry has handed out.

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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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6 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

When Dak was available for all 16 games in 2019 we finished with a 8-8 record and Dak was way cheaper.

Even with Dak in 2020 we were on pace for a 6-8 win season. We have so many holes in the roster.

Anyone feel good about paying Dak all the money and running it back with the current crew + a few draft picks? Think Dakota is a good QB but how can he make more than Brady, Russell Wilson, and Aaron Rodgers and expect to realistically compete? Especially with all the bad contracts Jerry has handed out.

It’s just the going rate for top 10 qbs. I get what you’re saying. I don’t feel confident that we’ll be able to put a good enough team around Dak throughout the life of his contract, but I think it’s our best bet for getting to where we want to go. And I know that makes me sound like I’m flip flopping, but I really do see where you’re coming from. But I also think we need to just sign him and hope like hell we can draft well enough throughout the life of his contract. There’s definitely an argument to be made that we should just bottom out and rebuild though, because I don’t think we’re winning with this core. Dak would have us playing well enough that we’ll never truly bottom out, especially in this division. 

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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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I will say this though. I’m starting to think the “don’t sign Dak” crowd is about to get their wish. I don’t think Jerry and co think he’s a top 5 qb. They’re all talk. I think they like him. I think they like him a lot. But I also think that they don’t think he’s a set the market type of qb. I think you probably have to set the market for a top 10 qb. I don’t think they feel that way. If they did this shit would’ve been done by now. If you really believe your qb is “that dude”, you don’t play this dangerous game that they’re playing.

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 48979

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

What teams would be good candidates for sign and trade deal for Dak, and what could Dallas reasonably expect to get back in the trade??

 

Schefter Explains Dak Prescott-Cowboys Contract, Franchise Tag, Trade Situation

ROB GOLDBERG.   JANUARY 28, 2021

The Dallas Cowboys could trade Dak Prescott after placing the franchise tag on him this offseason, but the quarterback would need to agree to any deal.

ESPN's Adam Schefter explained the situation Thursday (1:05):

"That would be his unofficial no-trade clause. They could not just trade him without his consent."   As Mike Greenberg noted, 17 NFL players have been traded while on the franchise tag, and 15 have gone on to sign new deals after being dealt.  However, Matt Cassel is the only quarterback ever to be traded after being tagged, moving from the New England Patriots to Kansas City Chiefs in 2009.

Prescott played last season on the franchise tag after the two sides were unable to agree on a long-term contract. He ended up with a one-year tender worth $31.4 million, and he could be a free agent this offseason unless the Cowboys either use the tag again or sign him to a new contract.

The 27-year-old played only five games in 2020 before going down with a compound right ankle fracture and dislocation, but he was on a historic pace with 371.2 passing yards per game. It came after totaling 4,902 passing yards in 2019, second-most in the NFL, while leading the No. 1 offense in yards gained.

Dallas struggled without him and finished the season 6-10 with the No. 14 offense in the league.  "I don't know how you could have any more leverage," owner Jerry Jones said of Prescott on 105.3 The Fan earlier this month (h/t Todd Archer of ESPN).

A trade could help both parties if the quarterback does not want to return to the Cowboys. Dak could force his way to a better situation while Dallas could recoup some assets.

 

Still wish Dallas would pursue a sign and trade deal for DAK.  Time to start rebuilding the Cowboys, and look to the future.

 

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futureman

futureman 22415

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49 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I will say this though. I’m starting to think the “don’t sign Dak” crowd is about to get their wish. I don’t think Jerry and co think he’s a top 5 qb. They’re all talk. I think they like him. I think they like him a lot. But I also think that they don’t think he’s a set the market type of qb. I think you probably have to set the market for a top 10 qb. I don’t think they feel that way. If they did this shit would’ve been done by now. If you really believe your qb is “that dude”, you don’t play this dangerous game that they’re playing.

11 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

He’s not close to a Top 5 QB. He’s not a set the market QB. They are thinking logically. 

I think jerry and stephen are anything but logical. I hope both of y’all are right but I’m fully prepared for dak to sign a five year deal for $200MM

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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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5 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

They are going to have to have some really strong drafts to rebuild the D.

Has anyone ever done a comparison of what's the largest % of the cap a QB has eaten and won a superbowl.

The thing is, he’s good. You could even make a case that he’s really fucking good. He flashes that all the time. Fuck rankings. He’s in the tier of qb that you can definitely win a super bowl with. If he got signed by SF tomorrow, SF is probably the favorite to come out of the NFC. Kyle Shanahan knows what the fuck he’s doing and he’d maximize Dak’s abilities.

The problem we have is we’re so far away from being a complete team that we just have to bank on getting lucky in the draft like 2-3 years in a row to be legitimate contenders. I don’t trust that we can do that, but I also feel like that is our best chance for putting a contender on the field. Unless you just want to bottom out, and like I said, there’s an argument for that too. 

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futureman

futureman 22415

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Posted
1 minute ago, youdunnf'dup said:

If he got signed by SF tomorrow, SF is probably the favorite to come out of the NFC.

nope.

our roster is plenty good enough for a capable quarterback to make a playoff run. the fact that he hasn’t done it in five years tells you all you need to know about him. 

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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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3 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Ha. People actually believe this too. In a conference with Brady, Rodgers, Wilson and Stafford. 

When Jimmy G is healthy and they have a healthy D they’re one of the favorites in the NFC. Maybe even the favorite. Do you disagree with that? Are we really saying we don’t believe Kyle Shanahan could get more out of Dak than Kellen Moore? Wtf are we even talking about? You just like to argue for the sake of arguing. I know a lot of women like that. It’s like they get turned on by getting into an argument and they seek it out whenever possible to get their fix 

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 48979

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5 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Whatever decision Jerry makes regarding Dak will be the wrong one. You wanna know why? Because Jerry will be the one who made it. 25 years of this shit and yall still haven't caught on.

Yeah, at Jerry's age he needs to win now... rest of the NFL will continue to take advantage of him because of it.  

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Vic Mackey

Vic Mackey 46936

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1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Ha. People actually believe this too. In a conference with Brady, Rodgers, Wilson and Stafford. 

I mean is it worse than you listing Stafford as some top threat in this conference? Lmao. Dak shits all over Stafford. Dak has been in the league how many years and has accomplished infinitely more than Stafford. as a 4th round pick. Stafford was 1 overall. He also played with Calvin Joshnson.

https://nflcomparisons.com/matthew-stafford-vs-dak-prescott-comparison/

There is nothing on there that tells me Stafford is better. But hey, the excuses of him playing with Detroit. Because yeah, Dallas is such a great ran organization and Dak has played with a great defense and great coaches (I am laughing typing this).

The Stafford I know blew every big game he played in, including choking in the 2014 playoffs. a 14pt lead and then the ball twice to win and turned it over both times.

He's a career loser who only wishes he could have accomplished what Dak has. Y'all trash Dak but prop up a #1 pick who is a bust, hasn't even once won his division. That is pretty pathetic.

Stafford has a sub .500 record for his career. Terrible. Even. But these are the same people who told me how great Wentz is, too. Lulz

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Loch Ness Monster

Loch Ness Monster 3533

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Feel like the model for SB success is either 1) Have a HOF QB or 2) Have a good QB on a rookie deal and be able to surround him with plenty of talent 

Dallas has about nine guys on defense that need to be replaced and the best guys on our OL are old and beat up. Giving Dak the contract he wants (4 year deal / $40 million per year) just puts us shooting for 8-8 as always and by the time the defense is not awful Dak is gonna want another Russell Wilson type contract.

Russell Wilson is better than Dak and even the Seahawks have had trouble surrounding him with enough talent after he got PAID. 

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