The US Capitol has been Breached [Action and Developing stories]

[G650 14277]

8 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Just once, one fucking time, I want to hear the gun crowd be honest. Cut the shit about why you have a dozen guns and a built-up AR for protection or ensuring that you can take up arms against a hostile government, and just admit that you like guns. I'd respect that argument. There's nothing wrong with liking guns. Guns are cool (when used and stored safely). Fast cars are cool and dangerous as well. But every public road in America has a speed limit, and you can only drive a Formula 1 car on a track with the proper permits and licenses.

 

Amen. And this is me. I like guns. They are fun. I have an Armalite AR. I'm not some crazy ban all weapons person. But I can see the glaring need for regulation, and in fact, I WANT more regulation because I'm tired of being associated with a bunch of pencil dick Gravy Seal cosplayers. If I has to give up an AR to get more reasonable gun regulation I wouldn't blink an eye, it's just something I like having, not some necessity.

[RDCanecutter 26472]

10 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I read this in Darrell Hammond's impression of Sean Connery.  "I'll take 'S'words for $300"  

What is a saber?  

Then we'll have all the "ATM machine" and "Rio Grande river" guys talking about "big Claymore swords." I don't think I'm gonna make it.

[Pato del Muerto 52597]

I don’t even own an AR. It doesn’t meet any of my needs as a tool, and the guns I have that do meet those needs also scratch the sport fun shooting itch. 
so I’ve never felt compelled to buy/build one, with or without 9 peripherals on 3 rails. 

[bolverk 29717]

Actual news on the attack:

Capitol Police chief apologizes for security failures during the assault, including a delay in calling for Guard troops.

The acting chief of the Capitol Police apologized to Congress on Tuesday for the agency’s massive security failures on Jan. 6, acknowledging during a closed-door briefing that the department knew there was a “strong potential for violence” but failed to take adequate steps to prevent what she described as a “terrorist attack.”

Yogananda D. Pittman, the acting chief of police, also confirmed that the Capitol Police Board, an obscure panel made up of three voting members, had initially declined a request two days earlier for National Guard troops and then delayed for more than an hour as the violence unfolded on Jan. 6 before finally agreeing to a plea from the Capitol Police for National Guard troops, according to prepared testimony obtained by The New York Times.

In an extraordinary admission, Chief Pittman, who was not the acting chief at the time of the siege, told members of the House Appropriations Committee, which oversees funding for the agency, that the Capitol Police “failed to meet its own high standards as well as yours.” She added, “I am here to offer my sincerest apologies on behalf of the department.”

Her comments offered the fullest detailed account to date about police preparations for Jan. 6, when thousands of angry protesters, believing false claims that the election had been stolen, marched on the Capitol at the behest of former President Donald J. Trump.

Speaking by video conference in a virtual briefing, Chief Pittman told the committee that the department “should have been more prepared for this attack,” according to the remarks.

Chief Pittman said that her department knew Jan. 6 would be unlike previous protests. She said her department knew that militia groups and white supremacists organizations would descend on Washington.

“We also knew that some of these participants were intending to bring firearms and other weapons to the event,” she said. “We knew that there was a strong potential for violence and that Congress was the target. The department prepared in order to meet these challenges, but we did not do enough.”

She said the Capitol Police had 1,200 people working on site when the attack occurred, which was “no match” for “the tens of thousands of insurrectionists.”

Two days before the attack, Steven Sund, then the chief of the Capitol Police, requested that the Capitol Police Board declare a state of emergency and authorize a request to secure National Guard support. The board denied the request, according to Chief Pittman, but encouraged Chief Sund to contact the National Guard to determine how many guardsmen could be sent to the Capitol on short notice, which he did.

As the protesters became an increasing threat to the Capitol on Jan. 6, Chief Sund asked for more help from federal agencies and law enforcement agencies in the area. “He also lobbied the board for authorization to bring in the National Guard, but he was not granted authorization for over an hour,” Chief Pittman said.

Two of the board members at the time of the attack have already resigned: Paul D. Irving, the House sergeant-at-arms, and Michael C. Stenger, the Senate sergeant-at-arms. The third member, J. Brett Blanton, the Architect of the Capitol, is still on the board. Mr. Blanton was nominated by Mr. Trump in December 2019 and confirmed by the Senate that same month. The chief of the Capitol Police serves in an ex-officio, non-voting capacity.

“In my experience, I do not believe there was any preparations that would have allowed for an open campus in which lawful protesters could exercise their First Amendment right to free speech and at the same time prevented the attack on Capitol grounds that day,” Chief Pittman said.

In the aftermath of the attack, many officers are suffering from PTSD, she said, “particularly after the loss of two of our officers directly and indirectly as a result of the events of January 6th.” Officers also have been an experiencing an increase in coronavirus infections.

During the briefing, the acting House sergeant-at-arms, Timothy P. Blodgett, also said it was “clear there was a failure of preparation,” citing poor communications and a weak perimeter defense of the Capitol.

“Whether it was insufficient or conflicting intelligence, lacking ability to translate that intelligence into action, insufficient preparation or an inadequate ability to mobilize partner agencies for immediate assistance, a series of events, once thought unfathomable, unfolded allowing our most sacred halls to be breached,” Mr. Blodgett said.

[TwiceHorn 31535]

2 hours ago, GW Hayduke said:

Semi-auto rifles provide no benefit to society except in certain limited wildlife management settings. The obvious route is to implement a buy-back program and needs-based permitting system (i.e., a trained professional wildlife technician permitted to manage populations).  Other long guns and hand guns could have their own tiered needs-based permits. Australia did it and it worked.  It would also all require a licensing, training, background check, and registration system.  

It isn't rocket science. The only difficulty is that people have tied their identity to firearms, a political party uses those people, and those people have been programmed to fear (both scary government takeover of freedom eagles and rabid horde caravan of illegal migrant crack-induced pedophile rapists).  

I don't disagree with your fundamental premise regarding controls.

I think it is a mistake to broadly categorize firearms in terms of things like semi-automatic.  Someone who knows what they're doing can curb distribution of murder machines while leaving the sportos with their black rifles in less lethal formats.  It's not about semi-auto, or large-cap magazines, it's a combination of things.

Previous attempts to do this, like the Assault Weapons Ban, were pretty ham-handed.

[Guest Lobo]

I think a policy that involves not letting stupid people have lots of guns that shoot a lot of bullets real quick-like is a good jumping off point.  And I say this is a proficient marksman and 2A supporter.  

We can dress this shit up all day long and hear from all the self-anointed guest editors of "Jane's Gun Recognition Guide" and all the mental health experts and all the Monday Morning QB's that come out of the woodwork to explain every fucking mass shooting event in this country.   

It's way too easy for way too many people who are way too dumb to get way too many weapons that can kill way too many people.  That's all there is to it.  

This country is dumb and getting sublimely moronic by the day.  And to celebrate we're giving the people driving us off the cliff, the weapons cache of their choice. 

It's not a right v. left issue anymore.  There's simply not enough adults to babysit the stupid kids with heavy artillery anymore.  We just don't have the bandwidth.  

Fuck criminal background checks.  You should be able to name the amendment that comes after the one you can't shut the fuck up about in order to buy a gun.  Let's just start with that, immediately eliminate half the mass shootings in this country just based on my bad joke.  

Edited January 26, 2021 by Lobo

[hayden_horn 11365]

29 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Actual news on the attack:

Capitol Police chief apologizes for security failures during the assault, including a delay in calling for Guard troops.

The acting chief of the Capitol Police apologized to Congress on Tuesday for the agency’s massive security failures on Jan. 6, acknowledging during a closed-door briefing that the department knew there was a “strong potential for violence” but failed to take adequate steps to prevent what she described as a “terrorist attack.”

Yogananda D. Pittman, the acting chief of police, also confirmed that the Capitol Police Board, an obscure panel made up of three voting members, had initially declined a request two days earlier for National Guard troops and then delayed for more than an hour as the violence unfolded on Jan. 6 before finally agreeing to a plea from the Capitol Police for National Guard troops, according to prepared testimony obtained by The New York Times.

In an extraordinary admission, Chief Pittman, who was not the acting chief at the time of the siege, told members of the House Appropriations Committee, which oversees funding for the agency, that the Capitol Police “failed to meet its own high standards as well as yours.” She added, “I am here to offer my sincerest apologies on behalf of the department.”

Her comments offered the fullest detailed account to date about police preparations for Jan. 6, when thousands of angry protesters, believing false claims that the election had been stolen, marched on the Capitol at the behest of former President Donald J. Trump.

Speaking by video conference in a virtual briefing, Chief Pittman told the committee that the department “should have been more prepared for this attack,” according to the remarks.

Chief Pittman said that her department knew Jan. 6 would be unlike previous protests. She said her department knew that militia groups and white supremacists organizations would descend on Washington.

“We also knew that some of these participants were intending to bring firearms and other weapons to the event,” she said. “We knew that there was a strong potential for violence and that Congress was the target. The department prepared in order to meet these challenges, but we did not do enough.”

She said the Capitol Police had 1,200 people working on site when the attack occurred, which was “no match” for “the tens of thousands of insurrectionists.”

Two days before the attack, Steven Sund, then the chief of the Capitol Police, requested that the Capitol Police Board declare a state of emergency and authorize a request to secure National Guard support. The board denied the request, according to Chief Pittman, but encouraged Chief Sund to contact the National Guard to determine how many guardsmen could be sent to the Capitol on short notice, which he did.

As the protesters became an increasing threat to the Capitol on Jan. 6, Chief Sund asked for more help from federal agencies and law enforcement agencies in the area. “He also lobbied the board for authorization to bring in the National Guard, but he was not granted authorization for over an hour,” Chief Pittman said.

Two of the board members at the time of the attack have already resigned: Paul D. Irving, the House sergeant-at-arms, and Michael C. Stenger, the Senate sergeant-at-arms. The third member, J. Brett Blanton, the Architect of the Capitol, is still on the board. Mr. Blanton was nominated by Mr. Trump in December 2019 and confirmed by the Senate that same month. The chief of the Capitol Police serves in an ex-officio, non-voting capacity.

“In my experience, I do not believe there was any preparations that would have allowed for an open campus in which lawful protesters could exercise their First Amendment right to free speech and at the same time prevented the attack on Capitol grounds that day,” Chief Pittman said.

In the aftermath of the attack, many officers are suffering from PTSD, she said, “particularly after the loss of two of our officers directly and indirectly as a result of the events of January 6th.” Officers also have been an experiencing an increase in coronavirus infections.

During the briefing, the acting House sergeant-at-arms, Timothy P. Blodgett, also said it was “clear there was a failure of preparation,” citing poor communications and a weak perimeter defense of the Capitol.

“Whether it was insufficient or conflicting intelligence, lacking ability to translate that intelligence into action, insufficient preparation or an inadequate ability to mobilize partner agencies for immediate assistance, a series of events, once thought unfathomable, unfolded allowing our most sacred halls to be breached,” Mr. Blodgett said.

sund resigning was the right thing to do, but it looks like he was properly fucked over by his superiors.

[Born to Run 6569]

Wouldn't downplaying your intentions during the campaign and then not letting a good tragedy go to waste just feed into the slippery slope argument that as you say, works?

Let a Rep and Senator from a reliably Blue State lead the charge on introducing reasonable legislation then vote your conscience on the matter once you've gained power.

That's the game sadly, play it or lose every time.

[bolverk 29717]

12 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

sund resigning was the right thing to do, but it looks like he was properly fucked over by his superiors.

Absolutely. I'd been wondering why the sergeants-at-arms were fired and how they played into the bigger picture. I understand it much better now.

[Beau Vine 54428]

This VF article about Gabby Giffords should be required reading for anyone interested in gun control:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/09/how-gabby-giffords-survived-a-shot-to-the-head-and-outsmarted-the-nra

[WhatTheBuck 28798]

[B00M 6463]

2 hours ago, Lobo said:

I don't know why but I'm honestly thinking about buying another firearm.  I'm worried as shit about having it in my house with my overly-curious two little girls.  But I get a bad vibe from some sore-loser Trumpers lately.  Not so much the rage-filled asshole ones, but the ones with this blank stare in their eyes now like, 'Yeah, I would have preferred the election go a different way.  Uh, will you excuse me...I'm just gonna go in my garage for a few minutes.'  

Based on your occasionally, y'know, perhaps emotional posting style... and as unique as it is for you to claim to be a proficient marksman that doesn't keep any guns due to fear... I feel obligated to tell you that biometric safes are cheap and fit in a nightstand. Take it easy buddy

[Guest Lobo]

"buying another firearm", for you, means "doesn't keep any guns due to fear"    What does the word "another" mean in your world?  

People with your reading comprehension get to own guns.  That's what gives me fear.  

[B00M 6463]

5 minutes ago, Lobo said:

"buying another firearm", for you, means "doesn't keep any guns due to fear"    What does the word "another" mean in your world?  

People with your reading comprehension get to own guns.  That's what gives me fear.  

Oh okay, you're not worried about all your other guns being in the house with your daughters, but this hypothetical new purchase makes you worried as shit. That makes sense. My mistake. 

[Chad Fuck 17772]

WTF.  I go away a couple days and this becomes a gun control thread?

[jimmyjazz 46130]

2 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

WTF.  I go away a couple days and this becomes a gun control thread?

It's your fault.

[TexArcher 38063]

3 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Just once, one fucking time, I want to hear the gun crowd be honest. Cut the shit about why you have a dozen guns and a built-up AR for protection or ensuring that you can take up arms against a hostile government, and just admit that you like guns. I'd respect that argument. There's nothing wrong with liking guns. Guns are cool (when used and stored safely). Fast cars are cool and dangerous as well. But every public road in America has a speed limit, and you can only drive a Formula 1 car on a track with the proper permits and licenses.

The simple truth is that big guns make their dicks feel bigger, and they care more about that than they do about whether or not other people's kids make it home for dinner.

[Guest Lobo]

Boom-The other one can't be operated by anybody else, and I could never afford another one like it nor have access to the manufacturer of the security feature, nor have any need for two of them because of its unique safety feature---if it's rendered obsolete...another one like it is worthless because it means I'm already dead (it was a high-tech gift given to me by an O-10).  I was just thinking of getting a plain ole' vanilla handgun that my wife could also use in a standard biometric safe in the closet and even locked up, of course any dad is gonna feel a little nervous about having it in a house with kids---it's part of being a dad....doesn't mean I'm emotionally cowering in fear.  If you're not worried about your kids finding a weapon in the home, you're not a good dad or good gun owner.  I have one that's beyond impossible to hack and maybe might get another one for access by the wife or neighbor when the idiot Trumpers reveal themselves again.  But great reading job once again!  

Edited January 26, 2021 by Lobo

[Chad Fuck 17772]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's your fault.

I suppose I fucked around and found out through neglect.  

[TexArcher 38063]

Another thing I'd really like to hear, for the pure lulz, is what exactly these redneck patriots are gonna do to defend themselves against a hostile government.

You're gonna hole up with a dozen other rednecks in the biggest trailer in the park and make a stand against several dozen trained Marines with air support?  Real life isn't Call of Duty.  Do you think having an AR-15 in your trembling hands is gonna help when a drone strike vaporizes that trailer?

Also, why is it always the people with the biggest hard-on for our military (but not quite big enough to actually join) who need a personal arsenal to protect themselves from, ya know, our military?

It's all bullshit.  They just want their big dick toys and they'll tell any lie, including to themselves, to keep them.  And if your kid gets shot, well, freedom isn't free or some shit.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't disagree with your fundamental premise regarding controls.

I think it is a mistake to broadly categorize firearms in terms of things like semi-automatic.  Someone who knows what they're doing can curb distribution of murder machines while leaving the sportos with their black rifles in less lethal formats.  It's not about semi-auto, or large-cap magazines, it's a combination of things.

Previous attempts to do this, like the Assault Weapons Ban, were pretty ham-handed.

Ideally, it wouldn't matter what the magazine capacity is for semi-auto rifles if they are all removed from the population, except for those permitted to manage wildlife in certain rare circumstances. For recreational hunters and their permitted/registered bolt-action rifles, the mag size would be less relevant due to the low rate of fire. I realize this would all be a big change for a lot of folks and many sportos would left out and thus furious.  Sometimes big things have to happen in order to solve our big problems.  If we are ever going to provide healthcare for all of our citizens, big changes are going to need to occur.  Solving homelessness will also require bold action. 

The AWB's problem was it was too narrow  - it didn't apply to all semi-auto rifles and didn't have a need-based permit system. It catered to folks that wanted to make the requirements overly complicated, less effective, and watered down.  Even so, the AWB is believed to have had a positive influence on mass-shootings during the time it was in affect.  

[B00M 6463]

25 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Another thing I'd really like to hear, for the pure lulz, is what exactly these redneck patriots are gonna do to defend themselves against a hostile government.

You're gonna hole up with a dozen other rednecks in the biggest trailer in the park and make a stand against several dozen trained Marines with air support?  Real life isn't Call of Duty.  Do you think having an AR-15 in your trembling hands is gonna help when a drone strike vaporizes that trailer?

So the beginning of this very thread suggests it wouldn't go down like that, for better or worse. Active military would undoubtedly be divided on leveling Oklahoma's finest trailer park. I also choose to believe we'd hesitate to use drones to kill US citizens on US soil, but (give it a few years) fuck around and find out

Edited January 26, 2021 by B00M
How to strike through text?

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, the amendment was drafted when everybody had basically the same 3 weapons.  And if a company of "government troops" advanced on your small town, you and your fellow villagers actually had a decent chance of repelling their assault/occupation.  Sure they probably had more numbers and better training, but you knew the landscape and could fortify positions ahead of time since word of 100 guys in matching shirts marching through the countryside towards your position tended to spread fast.  

But now, buy up all the ammo and Ar-15's you can.  You're woefully outmatched and it's not even close.  If they can't digitally track you ahead of time and just arrest you.  They'll come get you with superior weapons systems you couldn't even conceive of.  You're not going to win, you're just gonna get your families killed.  

And here's the kicker, to avoid public spectacle killings of stupid Americans...we already installed a quieter way to kill off racist, gun-loving southerners.  And no shots need be fired.  You think the opioid holocaust of middle America was an accident?  Next time you're at a Wal-Mart, look around the back of the parking lot.  Watch the people sitting in their cars for long periods of time.  They're popping pills and drinking themselves to death and the government doesn't have to fire a single round to rid the nation of these people.  It's 21st century smallpox blankets.  

[Hagbard Celine 10923]

2 hours ago, Lobo said:

I think a policy that involves not letting stupid people have lots of guns that shoot a lot of bullets real quick-like is a good jumping off point.  And I say this is a proficient marksman and 2A supporter.  

We can dress this shit up all day long and hear from all the self-anointed guest editors of "Jane's Gun Recognition Guide" and all the mental health experts and all the Monday Morning QB's that come out of the woodwork to explain every fucking mass shooting event in this country.   

It's way too easy for way too many people who are way too dumb to get way too many weapons that can kill way too many people.  That's all there is to it.  

This country is dumb and getting sublimely moronic by the day.  And to celebrate we're giving the people driving us off the cliff, the weapons cache of their choice. 

It's not a right v. left issue anymore.  There's simply not enough adults to babysit the stupid kids with heavy artillery anymore.  We just don't have the bandwidth.  

Fuck criminal background checks.  You should be able to name the amendment that comes after the one you can't shut the fuck up about in order to buy a gun.  Let's just start with that, immediately eliminate half the mass shootings in this country just based on my bad joke.  

stupid people are the same root cause of the kraken big lie, dotardism, sedition, etc., and by definition it is impossible to get them to understand they are stupid, (dunning kruger) and we are unwilling as a society to punish the stupid for the results of their stupidity, much less identify and label them as stupid.  the war on education that began in 1985 has put us in a hell of a fix.   gun control is impossible.   recreating the mental health system and social services in this country along with mandatory arms ownership and training is the only solution.

go swiss.

[DonkeyCigars 143]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

This VF article about Gabby Giffords should be required reading for anyone interested in gun control:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/09/how-gabby-giffords-survived-a-shot-to-the-head-and-outsmarted-the-nra

Thanks for posting this; I read it and enjoyed it a great deal. I wasn't aware of this incident.

I think she's got the right tact and a lot of goodness in the article has come to bear: changing from "gun control" to "responsible gun reform" as a better message, for example, as well as running some reasonable gun reform folks and not abolish-all-gun-extremists (the one glaring omission I found that suited the narrative to leave out, was the Beto flop/failure and how he went all in on that messaging, though a lot of wordcount was spent talking about 2018 and candidates).

That said, this is exactly my opinion and I love it, this quote below. I think it's problematic though, in a world where you are either progressive socialist antifa or you are a GOP racist nazi. This is a political hill to climb when centrists are viewed as morally weak cowards and the blame for the republic is placed at their feet and there is a bounty on their heads to be primaried, from both sides:

"Left versus right takes you back to square one. “We also need to own the center. That’s how you create generational change. That’s how you foundationally shift our politics.”"

[Born to Run 6569]

Ideally, it wouldn't matter what the magazine capacity is for semi-auto rifles if they are all removed from the population, except for those permitted to manage wildlife in certain rare circumstances. For recreational hunters and their permitted/registered bolt-action rifles, the mag size would be less relevant due to the low rate of fire. I realize this would all be a big change for a lot of folks and many sportos would left out and thus furious.  Sometimes big things have to happen in order to solve our big problems.  If we are ever going to provide healthcare for all of our citizens, big changes are going to need to occur.  Solving homelessness will also require bold action. 
The AWB's problem was it was too narrow  - it didn't apply to all semi-auto rifles and didn't have a need-based permit system. It catered to folks that wanted to make the requirements overly complicated, less effective, and watered down.  Even so, the AWB is believed to have had a positive influence on mass-shootings during the time it was in affect.  

I'm cool with that. My Belgium Browning BAR fell off my boat.

[Hookah Horns 3083]

4 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Mass casualty events with AR-15s constitute a fraction of gun violence deaths, if we had ONLY those were committed each year we would have a lot party.

Any real discussion on gun violence should start with who is shooting whom and why.  Most shootings are done as part of an ongoing crime or are arguments that get out of hand and people use the firearm that is at hand or useful in the commission of a crime— a handgun.  Long guns are not really useful for any crime except premeditated massacres, and those are, again, a small fraction of shootings but get the most coverage by far.

Part of the reason people get worked up about attempts to take them away is because they perceive (correctly) that making them the target disproportionately impacts the gun owners least likely to use them illegally. 
 
It’s like going on an anti-drowning crusade but targeting bathtubs (people do drown in them) but not swimming pools.

As someone who tends to not be in proximity to ongoing armed crime or argue with people with handguns, I feel like I'm much more likely to get shot with a rifle in a random mass shooting than by a handgun.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Hookah Horns

[TexArcher 38063]

23 minutes ago, B00M said:

So the beginning of this very thread suggests it wouldn't go down like that, for better or worse. Active military would undoubtedly be divided on leveling Oklahoma's finest trailer park. I also choose to believe we'd hesitate to use drones to kill US citizens on US soil, but (give it a few years) fuck around and find out

That's probably all true, and it adds to the reasons that civilians don't really need an AR-15 to defend themselves from their government.  They just want one and the NRA says the Constitution says they get one.

[Hookah Horns 3083]

23 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

stupid people are the same root cause of the kraken big lie, dotardism, sedition, etc., and by definition it is impossible to get them to understand they are stupid, (dunning kruger) and we are unwilling as a society to punish the stupid for the results of their stupidity, much less identify and label them as stupid.  the war on education that began in 1985 has put us in a hell of a fix.   gun control is impossible.   recreating the mental health system and social services in this country along with mandatory arms ownership and training is the only solution.

go swiss.

You lost me at the end there. How is mandatory arms ownership and training supposed to help? Also I had no idea that the Swiss require draftable men to keep fully automatic weapons in their home. I can't even imagine the carnage that would cause here. 

[TwiceHorn 31535]

30 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

46 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Ideally, it wouldn't matter what the magazine capacity is for semi-auto rifles if they are all removed from the population, except for those permitted to manage wildlife in certain rare circumstances. For recreational hunters and their permitted/registered bolt-action rifles, the mag size would be less relevant due to the low rate of fire. I realize this would all be a big change for a lot of folks and many sportos would left out and thus furious.  Sometimes big things have to happen in order to solve our big problems.  If we are ever going to provide healthcare for all of our citizens, big changes are going to need to occur.  Solving homelessness will also require bold action. 
The AWB's problem was it was too narrow  - it didn't apply to all semi-auto rifles and didn't have a need-based permit system. It catered to folks that wanted to make the requirements overly complicated, less effective, and watered down.  Even so, the AWB is believed to have had a positive influence on mass-shootings during the time it was in affect.  

I'm cool with that. My Belgium Browning BAR fell off my boat.

You serious Clark? Fucking ouch.

I might get a little testy about my Marlin 99 being taken away.  It holds 18 rounds, but in a tubular mag, so I would need to make all 18 really count.  Can we exclude rimfire?  Tubular mags?  Fixed box magazines? 

Why hasn't anyone used an M1A/M14 in a mass murder scenario?

[Hagbard Celine 10923]

5 minutes ago, Hookah Horns said:

You lost me at the end there. How is mandatory arms ownership and training supposed to help? Also I had no idea that the Swiss require draftable men to keep fully automatic weapons in their home. I can't even imagine the carnage that would cause here. 

not mandating automatic ownership of any kind.  allow me to extend..... not just mandatory weapons training, and ownership of a .22 or a shotgun, but i think we should discuss 18 months of mandatory "national" (military?) service after high school or at age 18 (i.e. like mandatory military service in israel).  we can solve a tremendous amount of the stupidity problem and create a workforce that is constantly available to rebuild infrastructure and do the post-covid things we're going to have to do over the next 3 decades to re-shore manufacturing capability and do things like repurposing bigbox retail and class-A real estate.  things like building giant aquaculture tanks in empty bigbox retail, and hydroponic agriculture in surplus class-A towers.  a workforce that visits the elderly in facilities, does all of the national park maintenance, builds the firebreaks in tinderbox west.  a "peace corps" for the country.

i do feel sorry for the millenials and zoomers to some degree.  they didn't create this mess.  most of us reading this didn't create it either.  but the only hope for the kids is to kick their ass so they can unfuck what their ancestors created without a profit motive involved in the solution.

sorry for the detour.

[TexasEd 8077]

I created a new Thread to talk about Texas Democratic Party - Gun Control, etc... So we can get back to talking about Jan 6 and the fallout here.

 

 

[CooterBrown 18028]

You lost me at the end there. How is mandatory arms ownership and training supposed to help? Also I had no idea that the Swiss require draftable men to keep fully automatic weapons in their home. I can't even imagine the carnage that would cause here. 

They keep the rifles at home. Ammunition is stored at police stations for distribution if the militia is ever called up.

[bolverk 29717]

More details concerning the attack courtesy CaptAnt in the DT thread:

 

[TexasEd 8077]

3 hours ago, bolverk said:

Actual news on the attack:

Capitol Police chief apologizes for security failures during the assault, including a delay in calling for Guard troops.

The acting chief of the Capitol Police apologized to Congress on Tuesday for the agency’s massive security failures on Jan. 6, acknowledging during a closed-door briefing that the department knew there was a “strong potential for violence” but failed to take adequate steps to prevent what she described as a “terrorist attack.”

Yogananda D. Pittman, the acting chief of police, also confirmed that the Capitol Police Board, an obscure panel made up of three voting members, had initially declined a request two days earlier for National Guard troops and then delayed for more than an hour as the violence unfolded on Jan. 6 before finally agreeing to a plea from the Capitol Police for National Guard troops, according to prepared testimony obtained by The New York Times.

In an extraordinary admission, Chief Pittman, who was not the acting chief at the time of the siege, told members of the House Appropriations Committee, which oversees funding for the agency, that the Capitol Police “failed to meet its own high standards as well as yours.” She added, “I am here to offer my sincerest apologies on behalf of the department.”

Her comments offered the fullest detailed account to date about police preparations for Jan. 6, when thousands of angry protesters, believing false claims that the election had been stolen, marched on the Capitol at the behest of former President Donald J. Trump.

Speaking by video conference in a virtual briefing, Chief Pittman told the committee that the department “should have been more prepared for this attack,” according to the remarks.

Chief Pittman said that her department knew Jan. 6 would be unlike previous protests. She said her department knew that militia groups and white supremacists organizations would descend on Washington.

“We also knew that some of these participants were intending to bring firearms and other weapons to the event,” she said. “We knew that there was a strong potential for violence and that Congress was the target. The department prepared in order to meet these challenges, but we did not do enough.”

She said the Capitol Police had 1,200 people working on site when the attack occurred, which was “no match” for “the tens of thousands of insurrectionists.”

Two days before the attack, Steven Sund, then the chief of the Capitol Police, requested that the Capitol Police Board declare a state of emergency and authorize a request to secure National Guard support. The board denied the request, according to Chief Pittman, but encouraged Chief Sund to contact the National Guard to determine how many guardsmen could be sent to the Capitol on short notice, which he did.

As the protesters became an increasing threat to the Capitol on Jan. 6, Chief Sund asked for more help from federal agencies and law enforcement agencies in the area. “He also lobbied the board for authorization to bring in the National Guard, but he was not granted authorization for over an hour,” Chief Pittman said.

Two of the board members at the time of the attack have already resigned: Paul D. Irving, the House sergeant-at-arms, and Michael C. Stenger, the Senate sergeant-at-arms. The third member, J. Brett Blanton, the Architect of the Capitol, is still on the board. Mr. Blanton was nominated by Mr. Trump in December 2019 and confirmed by the Senate that same month. The chief of the Capitol Police serves in an ex-officio, non-voting capacity.

“In my experience, I do not believe there was any preparations that would have allowed for an open campus in which lawful protesters could exercise their First Amendment right to free speech and at the same time prevented the attack on Capitol grounds that day,” Chief Pittman said.

In the aftermath of the attack, many officers are suffering from PTSD, she said, “particularly after the loss of two of our officers directly and indirectly as a result of the events of January 6th.” Officers also have been an experiencing an increase in coronavirus infections.

During the briefing, the acting House sergeant-at-arms, Timothy P. Blodgett, also said it was “clear there was a failure of preparation,” citing poor communications and a weak perimeter defense of the Capitol.

“Whether it was insufficient or conflicting intelligence, lacking ability to translate that intelligence into action, insufficient preparation or an inadequate ability to mobilize partner agencies for immediate assistance, a series of events, once thought unfathomable, unfolded allowing our most sacred halls to be breached,” Mr. Blodgett said.

 

7 minutes ago, bolverk said:

More details concerning the attack courtesy CaptAnt in the DT thread:

 

This speaks to me of collecting evidence for not only a report but maybe a trial of some sort.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, Lobo said:

Boom-The other one can't be operated by anybody else, and I could never afford another one like it nor have access to the manufacturer of the security feature, nor have any need for two of them because of its unique safety feature---if it's rendered obsolete...another one like it is worthless because it means I'm already dead (it was a high-tech gift given to me by an O-10).  I was just thinking of getting a plain ole' vanilla handgun that my wife could also use in a standard biometric safe in the closet and even locked up, of course any dad is gonna feel a little nervous about having it in a house with kids---it's part of being a dad....doesn't mean I'm emotionally cowering in fear.  If you're not worried about your kids finding a weapon in the home, you're not a good dad or good gun owner.  I have one that's beyond impossible to hack and maybe might get another one for access by the wife or neighbor when the idiot Trumpers reveal themselves again.  But great reading job once again!  

This. I think adults often forget what it's like to be a kid. Its their house. They are usually there more than their parents, and are going to gain access to anything they want to gain access to. Ultimately, education is better than restriction, but until they are old enough to really understand, I personally wouldn't have any guns at home.  But you have to know your kids as well. I never messed with my moms gun even though I knew exactly where it was even when she moved it and her hiding spots were crap. On the flip side, my cousin got expelled from elementary school for a while for taking my uncle's gun there.  His was stored in a combo safe. Every one of us knew the combo. My uncle didn't know we knew until he went to pick my cousin up at school that day. That said, a biometric safe will work for all but the most enterprising of kids. 

Overall, there isn't a need for a ban. There need to be stronger checks on purchases, mandatory safety classes, and liability for gunowners who fail to secure their guns properly. If someone steals a gun from your safe, you did the best you could do. If they steal it from the back of your pickup, you should be looking at time if they commit a crime with it. 

[Auto Driller 2506]

Sorry to distract from the Valley political trends and gun control talk, but...

 

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/26/politics/capitol-police-riot-no-confidence/index.html
 

US Capitol Police officers are in preliminary discussions over holding a no-confidence vote targeting department leaders who were working on the day when Donald Trump supporters led an insurrection into the building, according to three people familiar with the discussions.

The vote would target acting USCP Chief Yogananda Pittman, who was promoted into the agency's top job following the resignation of Steven Sund after the insurrection. At least four additional chiefs may be targeted as part of any no-confidence vote, the three sources said. 

News of the discussion comes as Pittman spoke to congressional members during a closed-door briefing Tuesday, where she said the "department failed to meet its own high standards" on January 6, adding that police "knew there was a strong potential for violence and that Congress was the target." 

One source told CNN that Pittman was the operational chief that day and "never took control of the radio or commanded officers what to do in any way shape or form." 

One Capitol police source said stewards from the USCP Labor Committee, the union representing rank-and-file officers, visited section roll calls to take the temperature of officers on the potential no-confidence vote. 

Another source within the department says a no-confidence vote was likely forthcoming for senior leadership. "The rank-and-file of this department has no faith in any of our chiefs, especially the ones in that were here on January 6th," the source told CNN.

A Capitol Police spokeswoman did not immediately respond to a request from CNN for comment.

Union President Gus Papathanasiou told CNN that no vote is underway. "Officers have been calling for a vote of no confidence since January 6th," Papathanasiou said. "At this time we have not initiated a vote of no confidence. Doesn't mean we can't think about it. There's a big difference."

Officers have told CNN that they felt abandoned and betrayed by the department's leadership. 

Prior to her appointment, Pittman had served as head of intelligence operations since October 2019. In that role, Pittman was responsible for the safety and security of the US Capitol, congressional members, congressional staff and Capitol visitors, including detecting any threat and preventing it. On the day of the insurrection, she was second in command of the US Capitol Police force. 

In her prepared remarks Tuesday, Pittman outlined the department's failure to act on intelligence that pointed to a likelihood of violence. 

"We knew that militia groups and White supremacists organizations would be attending. We also knew that some of these participants were intending to bring firearms and other weapons to the event. We knew that there was a strong potential for violence and that Congress was the target," she said. 

The department responded to the threat by canceling days off for some officers and putting civil disturbance teams on standby. The SWAT team was available to wade into the crowd to make arrests, though officers told CNN that was not possible because of how badly officers were outnumbered that day.

Officers also described to CNN a hasty attempt to get helmets into the hands of officers before the event, without clear instruction on when to use them and where to store them.

Pittman said the department had adopted a new perimeter around the Capitol based on "instructions it received from the House and Senate sergeants-at-arms." But officers have told CNN, and videos indicate, that the bike-rack-type fencing used that day created a danger because it provide no security and can be easily weaponized by violent protesters. 

"The department prepared in order to meet these challenges, but we did not do enough," she said. 

Pittman also acknowledged that two pipe bombs and a van with explosives had forced police to divert officers just as the main body of protesters was arriving at the Capitol. 

Officers told CNN they believe the assault on the Capitol was timed to the bombs being found and was coordinated between insurrectionists on the east and west fronts of the building. The lack of any quick backup left officers stranded in thin lines attempting to keep a crowd of thousands from entering.

 

 

Brilliant move to promote the officer in charge of operational decision making on the day of the riot.

[RomaVicta 30017]

5 hours ago, Lobo said:

I read this in Darrell Hammond's impression of Sean Connery.  "I'll take 'S'words for $300"  

What is a saber?  

Your mother is a whore, you Canadian ponce.

[RomaVicta 30017]

Confirmation from the Washington Post about Pentagon interference tracing back to a Trump toadie:

Quote

The commander of the D.C. National Guard said the Pentagon restricted his authority ahead of the riot at the U.S. Capitol, requiring higher-level sign-off to respond that cost time as the events that day spiraled out of control.

Local commanders typically have the power to take military action on their own to save lives or prevent significant property damage in an urgent situation when there isn’t enough time to obtain approval from headquarters.

But Maj. Gen. William J. Walker, the commanding general of the District of Columbia National Guard, said the Pentagon essentially took that power and other authorities away from him ahead of the short-lived insurrection on Jan.  6. That meant he couldn’t immediately roll out troops when he received a panicked phone call from the Capitol Police chief warning that rioters were about to enter the U.S. Capitol.

Quote

“All military commanders normally have immediate response authority to protect property, life, and in my case, federal functions — federal property and life,” Walker said in an interview. “But in this instance I did not have that authority.”

Quote

But the restrictions the Pentagon placed on Walker also contributed to the delay. He needed to wait for approval from McCarthy and acting defense secretary Christopher C. Miller before dispatching troops, even though some 40 soldiers were on standby as a quick reaction force. That standby force had been assembled in case the few hundred Guard members deployed that day on the District’s streets to assist police with traffic control and crowd management needed help, Walker said.

The Pentagon required the highest-level approval for any moves beyond that narrow mission, in part because its leaders had been lambasted for actions the D.C. Guard took during last June’s racial justice protests, including helicopters that flew low over demonstrators in D.C. Top officials concluded those maneuvers resulted from “fragmentary orders” that hadn’t received high-level approval and were looking to prevent a repeat of that situation.

The last part I bolded smells like cat piss. "Well, everybody got mad because we brutalized the anti-Trumpers, so we had to leave the Capitol Building vulnerable."  It's a goddamn cover story. A fig leaf clipped from the tree of seditious deceit.

We can't let this one just go by, boys and girls.

Edited January 26, 2021 by RomaVicta

[Bama Chick 28596]

This is my shocked face.

[Hookah Horns 3083]

1 hour ago, Hagbard Celine said:

not mandating automatic ownership of any kind.  allow me to extend..... not just mandatory weapons training, and ownership of a .22 or a shotgun, but i think we should discuss 18 months of mandatory "national" (military?) service after high school or at age 18 (i.e. like mandatory military service in israel).  we can solve a tremendous amount of the stupidity problem and create a workforce that is constantly available to rebuild infrastructure and do the post-covid things we're going to have to do over the next 3 decades to re-shore manufacturing capability and do things like repurposing bigbox retail and class-A real estate.  things like building giant aquaculture tanks in empty bigbox retail, and hydroponic agriculture in surplus class-A towers.  a workforce that visits the elderly in facilities, does all of the national park maintenance, builds the firebreaks in tinderbox west.  a "peace corps" for the country.

i do feel sorry for the millenials and zoomers to some degree.  they didn't create this mess.  most of us reading this didn't create it either.  but the only hope for the kids is to kick their ass so they can unfuck what their ancestors created without a profit motive involved in the solution.

sorry for the detour.

I've long thought the same about military or some other public works service. Tying in some amount of college tuition assistance would do a lot of good, and the service would ideally lead many people to forgo traditional college study in favor of training and apprenticeships in various trades. 

One can dream. 

[Hookah Horns 3083]

30 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

This is my shocked face.
 

If only this had been unearthed before the election...

Just kidding, she'd have won by a significantly larger margin than she did. 

[Nivek 16986]

I've long thought the same about military or some other public works service. Tying in some amount of college tuition assistance would do a lot of good, and the service would ideally lead many people to forgo traditional college study in favor of training and apprenticeships in various trades. 
One can dream. 

That will go over well. I mean we have people who won’t wear masks during a plague but I am sure they will line up and volunteer.

[Hookah Horns 3083]

CNN is the irresponsible party here:

After CNN reached out to Greene, her personal Twitter account posted a statement in which she did not deny that she liked posts and replied to comments but claimed that many people have run her Facebook page.

"Over the years, I've had teams of people manage my pages. Many posts have been liked. Many posts have been shared. Some did not represent my views. Especially the ones that CNN is about to spread across the internet," she wrote.

Greene did not specify whether she or a member of her team were behind the posts reviewed by CNN's KFile.

[Hookah Horns 3083]

1 minute ago, Nivek said:

That will go over well. I mean we have people who won’t wear masks during a plague but I am sure they will line up and volunteer.

Muh rahts

[Dr. Teeth 5845]

This is why Katie Hill and Al Franken should not have resigned. Dems can't do the right thing anymore if Rs don't. Or else you are just hurting the party.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

You serious Clark? Fucking ouch.

I might get a little testy about my Marlin 99 being taken away.  It holds 18 rounds, but in a tubular mag, so I would need to make all 18 really count.  Can we exclude rimfire?  Tubular mags?  Fixed box magazines? 

Why hasn't anyone used an M1A/M14 in a mass murder scenario?

It must be an intimidating force of small game to need a semi-auto with 18 rounds. Hopefully any permit system would accommodate your need

 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

4 hours ago, Hookah Horns said:

As someone who tends to not be in proximity to ongoing armed crime or argue with people with handguns, I feel like I'm much more likely to get shot with a rifle in a random mass shooting than by a handgun.

I feel like you are unironically (and unintentionally) letting your immense economic privilege show here ijs 

[Hagbard Celine 10923]

4 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

This is my shocked face.
 

this bitch is cuckoo for cocoa puffs

[Hagbard Celine 10923]

3 hours ago, Hookah Horns said:

I've long thought the same about military or some other public works service. Tying in some amount of college tuition assistance would do a lot of good, and the service would ideally lead many people to forgo traditional college study in favor of training and apprenticeships in various trades. 

One can dream. 

allow me to extend....  do your time to retain your citizenship.  no service, no passport, and no vote.