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The US Capitol has been Breached [Action and Developing stories]

immamac

By immamac
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Degenerate Gardner

Degenerate Gardner 4160

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It’s almost like an unhinged President demonstrably beholden to foreign interests has no sincere interest in protecting American institutions. If only we could have foreseen this.

Seriously, none of this surprises me. If anything I’m encouraged by the low body count - but of course these same irrational forces have bravely resisted masks and themselves caused many needless deaths, so that calculus is complicated.

We need to get the new admin in office come hell or high water. Then bring the pain dispassionately to all who have actively conspired to wound our precious homeland, be they foreign or domestic. As much as we’d all like to retire mentally to a safe place after this FUBAR admin, our country needs resolute persistence if it’s to remain a truly special place.

Game fucking on.

 

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happyhookem
happyhookem

You fucking Democrats stole an election and you expect everything to be fine. You support BLM and Antifa. It was ok while they were rioting, looting, and killing. Not one word of condemnation. Now yiu

CenTex Hill Billy
CenTex Hill Billy

The hypocrisy of binary politics is in full effect today.  BLM, Antifa burn buildings, loot cities, ambush cops, attack govt buildings, protest in state capitols and Trumpers demand the police ta

Gil Bang
Gil Bang

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Patricio Swayze

Patricio Swayze 17058

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I flipped to Fox just to see their take on things and caught a segment about the woman that was shot. As everyone knows now, she was a Air Force vet, so she knew exactly what the fuck she was doing and getting herself into. They showed some of her tweets. Sorry, but she got what she deserved. It was an attempted coup. She knew what she was doing. She did not listen to the secret service and other security personnel.

Don’t want to die? Maybe a coup is not your thing.

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gmr548

gmr548 16703

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I think I mentioned it a couple of days ago that I didn't want peaceful protestors (for Trump) treated the same way the Black Lives Matter and Anit-fascist peaceful protestors were (by beating and gassing peaceful protestors). That wrong is wrong. That video above is not a peaceful protest and frankly, if they had shot everyone of them banging on the glass I don't think I'd have blinked.

Hell no. That’s an intruder in the United States Capitol, during an active joint session of Congress, attempting to forcibly enter a very costly barricaded area as security personnel on the other side very clearly have weapons brandished in a defensive position.

It is not even remotely equivalent to the most violent/destructive incidents in BLM’s record. If someone thinks it is, they are willfully obtuse but reasons I shudder to contemplate, or they are a profoundly stupid human being.

That’s it. There is no debate here. No both sides.
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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14807

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2 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

I flipped to Fox just to see their take on things and caught a segment about the woman that was shot. As everyone knows now, she was a Air Force vet, so she knew exactly what the fuck she was doing and getting herself into. They showed some of her tweets. Sorry, but she got what she deserved. It was an attempted coup. She knew what she was doing. She did not listen to the secret service and other security personnel.

Don’t want to die? Maybe a coup is not your thing.

They should ask where and how she got radicalized.

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DigDug

DigDug 1738

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4 minutes ago, Hawndoh said:

A massive number of our military were only ever military because they had no other decent options of a life after high school.

They didn't care about the oath when they took it, not did they understand it. They just knew they had to do it to get in.

 

Absolute truth.  During my military tenure I met some of the brightest, most resourceful people anywhere, but more so some of the rock bottom dumbest bastards you can find.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13566

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1 minute ago, HillaryFan420 said:

No one is going to remember this shit two months from now.  It's entertaining spectacle and nothing more.

I'm normally on team "Yawn, stop freaking out liberals" but the images from yesterday and truly historic in a way almost nothing else has been in the last 4 years.

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15705

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2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

 

As stupid and contemptible as what she did was, it was not treason.

It was insurrection, with a 10 year maximum penalty.  Or seditious conspiracy with 20 year max.

You don't get to make it into a no-due-process death penalty offense by shrieking "traitor."

You are better than that.

I could fully endorse her being beaten, but I'm not going to endorse her being shot.

No, it was treason.  It was "making war on the United States."  That's the definition of treason.

This is absolutely no different from the traitors in 1861.  They made war on the United States.  The only difference is that the Army of the Potomac did a much better job at protecting the Capitol.  But the goal of the Antietam Campaign and the Gettysburg Campaign were the same as the goal of the traitors yesterday--to capture the elected members of Congress and force them to acquiesce to their treason.

And yeah--you do get a no-due-process death penalty when you are in the engaged in the act of violent treason.  We didn't arrest the traitors at Gettysburg or Vicksburg; we shot them.  And we didn't shoot them because they pointed guns at Union troops; we shot them because they were engaged in the act of treason.

The government has a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence.  That's what makes it the government.  When the government is not the only entity that can legitimately use violence, then you're a failed state (e.g., South Sudan, Libya).

Police get to use deadly violence when they believe themselves to be endangered not because there is innate value to their lives.  They get to use deadly force in that instance because they are agents of the government.  Which is to say that in that moment, they are the government.  You don't get to use deadly force against the government (or its agents), and if you do, you get shot.

Here, she was using deadly force against the government itself by trying to overrun Congress and prevent it from performing its constitutional duties.  The government's life was threatened.  And it gets to use deadly force to protect its life.

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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26909

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Just now, bad_teammate said:

I'm normally on team "Yawn, stop freaking out liberals" but the images from yesterday and truly historic in a way almost nothing else has been in the last 4 years.

Also threw a wrench into the Slow Zombie/Fast Zombie debate. Who saw "Medium Speed Zombies" coming?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13566

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1 minute ago, Aqua Buddha said:

They should ask where and how she got radicalized.

I posted about it in the "Wives" thread, but my wife butted in a little too hard regarding how my daughter is too free with allowing their young kids to access the Internet.

In reality, I think it's the old people who need the interventions.

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HillaryFan420

HillaryFan420 121

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Just now, Captainant said:

Can we crowdsource this fucking troll already? We can drop the civility act after a violent insurrection by him and his ilk

I've never voted for a Republican in my life.  I just think the whole thing is silly and the only meaningful consequence of this entire event could be enhanced domestic surveillance via a beefed up Patriot Act.  That outcome will be driven by the media hysteria surrounding what happened yesterday.

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gmr548

gmr548 16703

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To those who think every person who breached the capital doors should have been shot, while I agree with the sentiment, the more practical thing to do would have been to set up a perimeter and arrest every single one of them. We don't know that there weren't foreign agents in there, and capturing them alive would do much towards breaking up espionage rings as well as investigating those who actually organized and planned this.

I definitely don’t want to see lethal force. I don’t even believe regular police should carry guns. I agree with your point of view here and I think it’s tragic that woman went down a path that led her to dying trying to break down a door in the Capitol for her god. Her blood is on Trump’s hands, as is the blood of many others.

However if you’re an intruder in the Capitol trying to break down a barricade while both houses of Congress are in the building, you fuck around and find out.
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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3362

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Just now, TwiceHorn said:

I do not and I am not willing to make flippant remarks about it.

I'm not going to engage anyone else on this topic.

Someone died, that's not good.  I'm not going to celebrate it.

 

I don't celebrate it, but I certainly approve it.  This isn't a kid getting shot in the back running away with a bag of skittles.  This is someone advancing on a SS agent protecting their charge and ignoring both physical barriers and orders to stop.  The SS agent stopped her from breaching that door, and it also woke up the people in that hallway that there are some lines they wont be able to cross without paying dearly for it.  Every capitulation by the Capitol police up to that point emboldened those idiots.  He brought them back to reality.  To be clear, he didn't make that choice to stop the crowd.  He shot her because she tried to cross that last line of defense.  He fired one round and then went back to holding that line.  Completely professional response to the chaos at hand.  Actions have consequences, and when it comes to the secret service, the response is usually extremely binary.  

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Lagunamadre

Lagunamadre 1975

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12 minutes ago, Hawndoh said:

A massive number of our military were only ever military because they had no other decent options of a life after high school.

They didn't care about the oath when they took it, not did they understand it. They just knew they had to do it to get in.

 

Certainly a touchy subject, but the guys I went to high school with that ended up joining the military instead of college were mostly dumb, racist, rednecks.  Some of them are cops now. 

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yoladu

yoladu 4191

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2 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

They should ask where and how she got radicalized.

this is a word that should be used more often, especially in the press, to characterize what is happening.

It's a bit of a jarring word, that most people associate with Islam, but is so completely applicable to what we are seeing. It might make people sit up and think.

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Goredho

Goredho 17663

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9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I do not and I am not willing to make flippant remarks about it.

I'm not going to engage anyone else on this topic.

Someone died, that's not good.  I'm not going to celebrate it.

 

It is possible to not celebrate her death while also feeling like a persistent, violent insurrection against the lawful US government needs to be met with deadly force.

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Nivek

Nivek 17420

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22 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Crying about being sprayed. Yeah, imagine storming the capitol while both houses are in session and the VP is inside. Breaking through barricades, smashing windows, etc. You would 100% know that would be a one-way trip and you would be shot immediately. 

Well, she was white.  Karen (Elizabeth from Knoxville) couldn't imagine that anything could actually happen to her.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Resist this temptation.

I don't click unless it's to verify a point someone made (like SS v Cop being the shooter). It is real and it is too real and painful to watch. Like Holocaust pictures, they just haunt you with the sadness.

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

I love the Ag site. The forum software itself is garbage, but holy HANNAH these people are lunatics.

Who doesn't like a zoo where you can go wrestle the orangutans!?

Haha. You are way outnumbered over there, but keep waking them up to reality, they scare me sometimes.

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B00M

B00M 6735

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2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I'm normally on team "Yawn, stop freaking out liberals" but the images from yesterday and truly historic in a way almost nothing else has been in the last 4 years.

Yeah. The images from the Senate chamber will unfortunately be in the history books because they're so outrageous and emblematic of this 4 year outsider experience.

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Continental Op

Continental Op 3934

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1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Completely agree.

However, it is pretty common round these parts for any "defense" of cops, no matter how mild or rational, to be excoriated and equated with white supremacy or other grave character defects.

Not sayin.  Just sayin.

Maybe think about how things might have shaken out a little bit differently if a bunch of BLM protesters had breached the Capitol during a joint session of Congress and perhaps you'll understand why people might equate defending the cops in this situation with racism.  

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Parliament

Parliament 14610

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That cop/Secret Service agent was entirely justified in shooting her. He's defending elected officials from a mob. The threshold for using deadly force to defend a Congressman is much lower, as it should be. It was a risky shot too. There were cops (the guys with AR15's) behind her.

These people are the same as MLPS/CHAZ/etc rioters in that they're unfazed by a gun, even after someone is shot. How much rage does it take to get you to the point where you're willing to die? I just don't get it.

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DigDug

DigDug 1738

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2 minutes ago, HillaryFan420 said:

I've never voted for a Republican in my life.  I just think the whole thing is silly and the only meaningful consequence of this entire event could be enhanced domestic surveillance via a beefed up Patriot Act.  That outcome will be driven by the media hysteria surrounding what happened yesterday.

I actually voted R my whole life, all the way through Bush 2.  I was just brought up in that type of family.  
 

Never again, not a chance in hell.  I remember telling a friend at the time I was voting for Obama and never voting R again. He said, you’re going to lose friends..yeah but I get to keep my soul.

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HillaryFan420

HillaryFan420 121

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6 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

No, it was treason.  It was "making war on the United States."  That's the definition of treason.

This is absolutely no different from the traitors in 1861.  They made war on the United States.  The only difference is that the Army of the Potomac did a much better job at protecting the Capitol.  But the goal of the Antietam Campaign and the Gettysburg Campaign were the same as the goal of the traitors yesterday--to capture the elected members of Congress and force them to acquiesce to their treason.

And yeah--you do get a no-due-process death penalty when you are in the engaged in the act of violent treason.  We didn't arrest the traitors at Gettysburg or Vicksburg; we shot them.  And we didn't shoot them because they pointed guns at Union troops; we shot them because they were engaged in the act of treason.

The government has a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence.  That's what makes it the government.  When the government is not the only entity that can legitimately use violence, then you're a failed state (e.g., South Sudan, Libya).

Police get to use deadly violence when they believe themselves to be endangered not because there is innate value to their lives.  They get to use deadly force in that instance because they are agents of the government.  Which is to say that in that moment, they are the government.  You don't get to use deadly force against the government (or its agents), and if you do, you get shot.

Here, she was using deadly force against the government itself by trying to overrun Congress and prevent it from performing its constitutional duties.  The government's life was threatened.  And it gets to use deadly force to protect its life.

To compare this with the Civil War is so incredibly insane.  There was no possibility whatsoever that the conspiracy theorists and other idiots who "stormed the Capitol" were going to seriously impair the functioning of the federal government much less overthrow it.  These people are simply idiots and the most surprising thing about the episode was how ill equipped the DC police were to control the crowds.  Had they done their jobs nothing would have happened.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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11 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

They should ask where and how she got radicalized.

 

6 minutes ago, yoladu said:

this is a word that should be used more often, especially in the press, to characterize what is happening.

It's a bit of a jarring word, that most people associate with Islam, but is so completely applicable to what we are seeing. It might make people sit up and think.

This this this.

Also, so convenient that Bill Barr stepped away and the new AG is not going to be in a hurry to use the FBI's labeling of QAnon as a domestic terror threat any time soon. Since you know, he's new and everything...might need two weeks or so to get up to speed.

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Js1

Js1 87224

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13 minutes ago, HillaryFan420 said:

No one is going to remember this shit two months from now.  It's entertaining spectacle and nothing more.

For 99.9% of this country, ArmyBrat excluded who was present for the 1814 invasion by Britain, our national population has NEVER seen images of thugs, insurrectionists and traitors storming the Capitol Building, ransacking the House and Senate floor/offices and blood spilled. 

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mdmost

mdmost 44100

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Yeah, I'm trying to find sympathy for the Air Force veteran who lost her life because she thought it was smart to try to storm the legislative seat of our government. I'm coming up pretty empty other than I feel bad for her family that are left behind to deal with the aftermath. I don't feel much sympathy because I wonder just what exactly the insurrectionists would've done had they gotten ahold of Pelosi or Chuck Schumer or AOC or anyone else that Fox News, OANN, or the 25th Amendment in Chief had told them were trying to steal what's "rightfully theirs"? What were the dudes with the zip ties thinking they would do with their hostages? I'm honestly surprised she was the only one shot down yesterday. 

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