The US Capitol has been Breached [Action and Developing stories]

[Michael Knight 13189]

Quote

Man died at U.S. Capitol after accidentally tasering himself and having a heart attack

 

https://www.revolt.tv/news/2021/1/7/22219433/man-died-at-us-capitol-tasering-himself

 

So like how come all the people spouting off about the superiority of the white race always seem to have members who do things like tasering themselves so hard in the dick while walking up some steps that they die from tasering themselves in the dick?

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

More poor working class nazis:

 

 

Looking at the side of his truck, he believes in the Constitution and not dictators at all. However, unless there's some really really good medicine out there, I don't think Trump is going to look so good in 2032.

[Horndog 2293]

2 hours ago, South Austin said:

Are we sure she’s not a drag queen?

Rand Paul meets RuPaul?

[bad_teammate 13481]

8 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

More poor working class nazis:

 

 

M4A will swing them, don't you worry!

Joking aside, the turnout for this thing was pathetic. Maybe 20k? 30k tops overall? This for an event Trump has been hyping for weeks. The lunatic vanguard is dangerous and terrible and needs to be viciously combated, but they don't really represent the swingable voters that still exist in his coalition.

[Kel Varnsen 8682]

20 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I actually think he could wiggle out of the speech.  And wiggle out of the manipulation of DC LEA, independently of one another (It's within my power!  I'm in control). 

But when you combine them together, you get seditious conspiracy, and that combination is one idiot chess move ahead of Dotard.

He could say we was just joking. He does have a good sense of humor.

[B00M 6726]

10 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I am wondering if you are more sympathetic to her because she was a woman?  For some not so mysterious reason, the CP was understaffed and not prepared for a confrontation.  Thus they didn't appear to have an organized defense, shields, gas, at their disposal.  Some of them did have M4's and they opted not to use them, or defend the Capitol, the officials, and the materials.  By their failure to prepare, and failure to act, they emboldened the terrorist mob...

Holy shit, I had no idea CP was this bloated:

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/magazine/2021/01/08/capitol-police-failure-456237

In the past two decades, the Capitol Police has grown into one of the largest, best-funded and most single-focus police departments in the country, with a budget of more than $460 million and around 2,000 sworn officers to guard just 2 square miles of the capital. (By comparison, that’s half the size of the entire police force for Washington, D.C.)

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

M4A will swing them, don't you worry!

Joking aside, the turnout for this thing was pathetic. Maybe 20k? 30k tops overall? This for an event Trump has been hyping for weeks. The lunatic vanguard is dangerous and terrible and needs to be viciously combated, but they don't really represent the swingable voters that still exist in his coalition.

Once you mobilize a force strong enough to overtake the Capitol during a joint session of Congress, the number seems irrelevant. 

[Degenerate Gardner 4135]

 

SIAP

 

Cool, cool.

 

[wildcat09 29561]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

M4A will swing them, don't you worry!

Joking aside, the turnout for this thing was pathetic. Maybe 20k? 30k tops overall? This for an event Trump has been hyping for weeks. The lunatic vanguard is dangerous and terrible and needs to be viciously combated, but they don't really represent the swingable voters that still exist in his coalition.

I'm not sure it was more than 10k, though I'm not good at estimating crowd sizes. Agree with the rest. Progressive policies can and need to be enacted to stem the rise of fascism, but people need to understand that it won't stop people like this from radicalizing. 

[Bruh Man 3160]

55 minutes ago, Constant said:

So much for the speech. Just some threats over coffee. 

Allowing him to radicalize the rest of his voters further is straight cancer into the heart of America.

Nuke this mother fucker into the center of the Earth. Impeach. Remove. Jail. Delete his Twitter. Remove Hawley and Cruz. Put every single person who stormed the white house in jail.

Or we suffer coup attempts and assassinations for a generation. History shows you stomp this out, not coddle it.

[HenryJames 67127]

9 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Looking at the side of his truck, he believes in the Constitution

[Grandioso 2592]

Antifa is getting owned when it comes to being cop-killing terrorists. Whoever is in charge over there needs to resign. 

[The Royal We 3090]

2 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

Allowing him to radicalize the rest of his voters further is straight cancer into the heart of America.

Nuke this mother fucker into the center of the Earth. Impeach. Remove. Jail. Delete his Twitter. Remove Hawley and Cruz. Put every single person who stormed the white house in jail.

Or we suffer coup attempts and assassinations for a generation. History shows you stomp this out, not coddle it.

MF'ing this.  Things aren't moving quickly enough.  Our system was never set up to deal with a mob boss as president with the power of the pardon in his pocket.  The pardon power is absolute (except one for himself?), so it seems to me that removing him before the pardonpalooza happens is pretty damn important.  

I don't think I've seen any discussion of Roger Stone's involvement in this - surely he's knee deep in the organizing of this insurrection.  Hopefully his pardon can't protect him from any legal jeopardy he would be in.

[Neonmoon 38130]

Just because it was a long drawn out tape together shitshow of a coup, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a coup. 

It started with him saying it would be a rigged election back in the summer or earlier. Then he had the USPS slow down mail service, remove machines, because he knew he could stop votes against him, which was proven to be true, thousands of ballots arrived to late thanks to mail. 

he continued the assault on democracy by accusing Biden of being controlled by China, saying the election was rigged, and fear mongering his base to say communist were taking away their country and Fox News was complicit in brain washing people. So we’re Republican lawmakers 

after he lost the election, he fired any person that said it was a free and fair election (Krebs), and fired other secretaries that would stand in his way of implementing his coup. He installed Patel and Miller, and whoever else. 

He told everyone to stop the steal, to fight, it was a rigged election, to show up on January 6th and fight. When shit went south, he was pleased, there is a story from aides saying he was pleased, and wouldn’t intercede. Calls for the national guard were rejected for over an hour and half by either Miller or someone. Not to mention all the failures of not having resources there to begin with. 

Do I think he planned this out like a master? No, he’s too lazy and stupid. He just injected chaos, incited, provoked, tore down systems and institutions because fuck anyone who is against him, he doesn’t care about the consequences because he’s never been personally affected by a consequence in his life. If they stormed the capital, good. They need the national guard help? Nah, let them deal with it, they caused this by not voting for me. 
 

he even said that in a fucking tweet after. This is what happens when you steal an election from me. He just said fuck you to the entire nation. 

And there are still 50 Republican senators that choose party over country. Still Fox News that chooses greed over country. They all know better, they just don’t give a shit, why? Because there are no consequences. 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Neonmoon

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20839]

21 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

 

 

 

So like how come all the people spouting off about the superiority of the white race always seem to have members who do things like tasering themselves so hard in the dick while walking up some steps that they die from tasering themselves in the dick?

 

 

Meal team six lost another brave soldier in the eternal struggle against its arch enemy, cholesterol and moderate exercise.

[Aqua Buddha 14783]

More economically angst ridden people in the Trump riot:

A real estate broker from Frisco, Texas, flew on a private jet to Washington, DC, along with friends to “storm the Capitol” on Wednesday. 

Jenna Ryan, who is also a radio host, flew from US Trinity Aviation in Denton, Texas, all they way to the nation’s Capitol — where she had “one of the best days of my life.”

“Hopping on a plane heading to DC #MarchToSaveAmerica #stopthesteal,” she wrote in the caption of a photo on the tarmac.

The Trump supporter was also tagged in multiple photos on Facebook, where she is seen holding her luggage with a big grin on her face. 

“This is a prelude going to war,” exclaimed Ryan.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/08/texas-woman-flew-on-private-jet-to-washington-d-c-to-storm-the-capitol/

 

[HenryJames 67127]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[smuggs 9394]

4 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

 

 

Is the guy with the wallet chain their stylist?

[Lagunamadre 1975]

4 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

 

A real estate broker from Frisco, Texas, flew on a private jet to Washington, DC, along with friends to “storm the Capitol” on Wednesday. 

 

 

That's not a jet. Come on guys, step your game up, those propellers aren't gonna get you laid. 

[Constant 6844]

8 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Just because it was a long drawn out tape together shitshow of a coup, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a coup. 

It started with him saying it would be a rigged election back in the summer or earlier. Then he had the USPS slow down mail service, remove machines, because he knew he could stop votes against him, which was proven to be true, thousands of ballots arrived to late thanks to mail. 

he continued the assault on democracy by accusing Biden of being controlled by China, saying the election was rigged, and fear mongering his base to say communist were taking away their country and Fox News was complicit in brain washing people. So we’re Republican lawmakers 

after he lost the election, he fired any person that said it was a free and fair election (Krebs), and fired other secretaries that would stand in his way of implementing his coup. He installed Patel and Miller, and whoever else. 

He told everyone to stop the steak, to fight, it was a rigged election, to show up on January 6th and fight. When shit went south, he was pleased, there is a story from aides saying he was pleased, and wouldn’t intercede. Calls for the national guard were rejected for over an hour and half by either Miller or someone. Not to mention all the failures of not having resources there to begin with. 

Do I think he planned this out like a master? No, he’s too lazy and stupid. He just injected chaos, incited, provoked, tore down systems and institutions because fuck anyone who is against him, he doesn’t care about the consequences because he’s never been personally affected by a consequence in his life. If the storm capital, good. They need the national guard help? Nah, let them deal with it, they caused this by not voting for me. 
 

he even said that in a fucking tweet after. This is what happens when you steal an election from me. He just said fuck you to the entire nation. 

And there are still 50 Republican senators that choose party over country. Still Fox News that chooses greed over country. They all know better, they just don’t give a shit, why? Because there are no consequences. 

 

 

His claim of victory on election night was also a part of this plan to sew doubt and confusion. Anyone with half a brain knew it was going to take forever to count the mail-in ballots. 

[Ghost of LL 15670]

2 minutes ago, Lagunamadre said:

That's not a jet. Come on guys, step your game up, those propellers aren't gonna get you laid. 

The push-propeller is an interesting and unusual design.  I don't exactly know why it's not used more often.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

7 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

More economically angst ridden people in the Trump riot:

A real estate broker from Frisco, Texas, flew on a private jet to Washington, DC, along with friends to “storm the Capitol” on Wednesday. 

Jenna Ryan, who is also a radio host, flew from US Trinity Aviation in Denton, Texas, all they way to the nation’s Capitol — where she had “one of the best days of my life.”

“Hopping on a plane heading to DC #MarchToSaveAmerica #stopthesteal,” she wrote in the caption of a photo on the tarmac.

The Trump supporter was also tagged in multiple photos on Facebook, where she is seen holding her luggage with a big grin on her face. 

“This is a prelude going to war,” exclaimed Ryan.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/08/texas-woman-flew-on-private-jet-to-washington-d-c-to-storm-the-capitol/

 

Please God tell me the actual pilot was not one of them.

Also, this is fucking amazing at the casual nature of 'we're going a-warring a-warring a-warring," like it's something out of a picture book or a coffee table magazine with outfits and special meals and furniture.

Gah, out of fucks with these people.

[B00M 6726]

7 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

Tree of liberty, yada yada, manure. 

[Bruh Man 3160]

6 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

The parallels with Benghazi are striking. Armed terrorists ransack a government building leading to deaths of Americans. Everything they accused the Obama administration of - cover up to incompetence - was actually on full display from Trump and his goons. You really can’t make this shit up. 

[TreatyOak 17202]

As many of you know, I am a busy poster on the the football boards. I've always avoided the Cloak Room cause it's always been referred to as "a cesspool." However, what little I've read here is refreshingly cogent and progressive.

I do think that there may some good that comes out of this event, as it exposes Trump's acolytes in a really ugly light and removes their false narrative about "saving the country" and representing "law and order." 

Keep it up and with a little luck, we can get that mentally deranged sociopath permanently out of government.

Thanks. 

[BrazilHorn 6795]

10 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

Cannot wait to see the Republican Senators clamoring for investigations into this as they did with Benghazi. I mean I will be long dead before it happens but I still cannot wait to see it.

[Hank Kingsley 21602]

 

[Goredho 17629]

39 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

 

https://www.revolt.tv/news/2021/1/7/22219433/man-died-at-us-capitol-tasering-himself

 

So like how come all the people spouting off about the superiority of the white race always seem to have members who do things like tasering themselves so hard in the dick while walking up some steps that they die from tasering themselves in the dick?

You've got to grade the deplorables on a curve.

[MissingInAction 25487]

 

 

[Brisketexan 106643]

30 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

M4A will swing them, don't you worry!

Joking aside, the turnout for this thing was pathetic. Maybe 20k? 30k tops overall? This for an event Trump has been hyping for weeks. The lunatic vanguard is dangerous and terrible and needs to be viciously combated, but they don't really represent the swingable voters that still exist in his coalition.

Cool, cool.  Only 20-30,000 radicalized nuts showed up to participate in an attempt to violently decapitate an entire branch of government.  You should remember that they have an entire political movement behind them that -- while those people in the movement may not arm themselves and head to DC to attack our country -- SUPPORTS their efforts to do so.  Look at the polling.  Functionally half of Republicans SUPPORT the assault on Congress.

The parallels to islamofascism are rather strong.  Only a small percentage of people in islamofascist territories actually want to go be martyrs, personally kill Americans/jews etc.  But a disturbing percentage of the population supports and is okay with the small group of radicals who will do those things.  The current GOP is a terrorist organization -- it is everything that Al Qaeda and similar movements have been.  And having only 20-30k willing to commit violence for you is more than enough to have devastating effect, PARTICULARLY when they are an internal fifth column.  None of these people need to travel here from overseas, learn our language, any of that shit.  They can hop a Southwest flight, or drive their jacked up truck a few hours, and WALTZ RIGHT INTO CONGRESS.

THIS WILL ONLY GET WORSE, NOT BETTER.

[AnTiM 1684]

Now Trump says he will not attend the inauguration.  Biden needs to say "Thank you for not spoiling the party, pal".

[The University 852]

worst cosplay con evar

[Homercles 10206]

7 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

The push-propeller is an interesting and unusual design.  I don't exactly know why it's not used more often.

Noise outside, since the props work in air already disturbed by the wings.  That’s a Piaggio Avanti and one flies into either executive or bergstrom occasionally, and you can hear due to volume and a distinctly irritating tone.  

[Biff Tannen 46063]

12 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

As many of you know, I am a busy poster on the the football boards. I've always avoided the Cloak Room cause it's always been referred to as "a cesspool." However, what little I've read here is refreshingly cogent and progressive.

I do think that there may some good that comes out of this event, as it exposes Trump's acolytes in a really ugly light and removes their false narrative about "saving the country" and representing "law and order." 

Keep it up and with a little luck, we can get that mentally deranged sociopath permanently out of government.

Thanks. 

Oh it's a cesspool, no doubt, but not as much as the Football board or DT these days.  Welcome to the party pal.

[smuggs 9394]

1 minute ago, Homercles said:

Noise outside, since the props work in air already disturbed by the wings.  That’s a Piaggio Avanti and one flies into either executive or bergstrom occasionally, and you can hear due to volume and a distinctly irritating tone.  

I knew this realtor and her gang of twats would rent the most annoying plane on the lot.

[Ghost of LL 15670]

Just now, TreatyOak said:

As many of you know, I am a busy poster on the the football boards. I've always avoided the Cloak Room cause it's always been referred to as "a cesspool." However, what little I've read here is refreshingly cogent and progressive.

I do think that there may some good that comes out of this event, as it exposes Trump's acolytes in a really ugly light and removes their false narrative about "saving the country" and representing "law and order." 

Keep it up and with a little luck, we can get that mentally deranged sociopath permanently out of government.

Thanks. 

Maybe I'm pumping sunshine on a Friday, but I see a lot of good that can come out of this:

1) It's going to motivate federal law enforcement to take domestic terrorism seriously, in much the same way the Oklahoma City bombing did.  The late 1990's were a tough time to be a right-wing militia in America.  Virtually all of them were infiltrated by the FBI.  

That changed after September 11, when our law-enforcement focus shifted to Muslim extremism.  And it took a good decade for the right-wing militias to rebuild.  Now, having rebuilt, the FBI and other law-enforcement agencies are going to tear them back down.

2) It gives a lot of cover for Republicans to distance themselves from Trump.  And that is going to cause a breach within that party.

Half of that party thinks violent insurrection is great.  The other half is scared shitless of such a thing, because their power, money, and status come from operating within the current constitutional government.  They'll have the tiger as their mascot, but that fucking tiger needs to be caged.  And the second it gets out of its cage, it needs to be put down.

They're going to be fighting that tiger for the next several years (and maybe decades).  And in the meantime, they lose voters.

3) It marginalizes Trump, which in turn marginalizes his followers.  The electoral power of Trump has been that he has been able to get people who ordinarily don't vote to show up and vote for him.  But that power isn't transferable.  When he's not on the ballot, they don't show up (as evidenced in 2018 and against earlier this week in Georgia). 

These low-education marginal voters only showed up because of Trump's celebrity.  That celebrity isn't like a cloak that can be taken off and put on someone else's shoulders.  Does anybody honestly think that Josh Hawley can step into the shoes of Donald Trump and get the turnout in East Nowheresville, Ohio that Trump did?  No--because Trump is a celebrity; Hawley is a fucking senator from Missouri.

And it doesn't matter how much Trump campaigns for other candidates, his people only show up for Trump.

Even with those marginal voters, Trump lost to Biden by 7 Million votes.  Without them, the Republicans are a really very small minority, considering that we have a two-party system.

[27-25 2082]

49 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

More poor working class nazis:

 

 

Is that a painting of Cronus eating one of his children?  WTF?

[TwiceHorn 31995]

12 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I am wondering if you are more sympathetic to her because she was a woman?  For some not so mysterious reason, the CP was understaffed and not prepared for a confrontation.  Thus they didn't appear to have an organized defense, shields, gas, at their disposal.  Some of them did have M4's and they opted not to use them, or defend the Capitol, the officials, and the materials.  

By their failure to prepare, and failure to act, they emboldened the terrorist mob.  They reached the SS whose job is not to arrest, but to shoot fuckers dead and catch bullets with their bodies and uphold their oaths.  That is when it stopped.  One well-placed bullet stopped them cold.  

(rant on)Our police have demonstrated they are weak in the face of a crisis, unwilling to do what is needed, unwilling to risk themselves, and only willing to beat and attack unarmed peaceful people, women, old men, kids.   They are a complete and utter failure at the one thing they all claim to do, protect and serve.  (/rant off)

(Back on topic).  Everyone on here wishes this did not happen.  We all wish the police were prepared for it and stopped them outside the Capitol.  We all wish they were organized and had leadership.  We all wish we had politicians who do not employ invective speech and inscite an overthrow.  But this is what we have, because of republicans.  This is entirely on them.  This is on every idiot who voted and supported these people and continues to do so.  This is on every politician, and business who allowed public hate speech, propaganda to exist on social media platforms and on AM radio, and Television.*  If you voted for Cruz, Cornyn, or any other republican this is on you.  The terroristic mob had no less than 6 republican office holders.   The terrorists fantasized about a right-wing Night of the Long Knives and thankfully failed because they are actually too stupid to pull it off.   

If they succeeded and killed Shumer, Pelosi, Mitt, and others, how would you have felt about the use of deadly force?  

*It is not like this an unforseen tactic.  This was employed by the Pilgrams in England to overthrow a king and to murder Irish Catholics on the basis of news they made up.  This was used in modern times by Myanmar government who made up stories about mass murder to enrage people and they then participated in genocide.  Hell, there is even a bond movie where the villain manipulates people with his NEWS network.

I don't think so.  One thing that may be influencing it, though, is that I have seen the video of the shooting on several occasions.  I tend to avoid them in other cases because I don't like watching people get killed.  I can usually generate some sort of empathy or outrage without having to watch them get killed.

I'm not flat sympathetic to her.  I acknowledge her crimes.  If anyone thinks I am somehow excusing the insurrectionists by regretting her shooting and death, well you can fuck right off.

I simply question the necessity of shooting her.

I have no doubt that in court it would be legally justified, but that's not the source of my agitation about it.  We all know the courts are overly deferential to LEO.  This would be one of the more appropriate exercises of qualified immunity.

I have said on at least one occasion here that a more forceful response from Capitol Police or others would have been justified legally and every other way.  I haven't seen a lot of evidence that the force would have required shooting people, but can't rule that out, either.  Some of those fuckers were armed.

It has become more clear to me that perhaps her group advanced, violently, further than the rest of the insurrectionists.  And therefore that maybe she was "one of the worst" and more deserving of being shot than some of the others.

However, I have also learned that that door was to the "Speaker's Lobby" outside Pelosi's office and other majority House members.  That seems bad, and maybe evidence that she was a clear and present danger.  But, we also know that Pelosi's office was actually occupied by Bigo and others, so that would seem to indicate that no House members were in that space or threatened by her actions.

I believe we have also learned that it was not Secret Service that shot her, but plainclothes Capitol Police (which is relevant only in that Secret Service might indicate the close proximity of endangered House members).  I have seen no evidence that she was armed, which would change my calculus on the deal.

All in all, it would have been more satisfying and appropriate that the shooter or another officer or group instead drag her ass through the window and beat her, tase her, gas her right there in front of that crowd.  Why not a warning shot?

As far as I know, no other gunshots were fired, and certainly no others were shot.  There are bullet holes in the glass at the entrance that are unexplained.

As I think you said, I was processing the thing at the time and still am.

Maybe I'm wrong and off as so many insist, but as I continue to process it, I still find her death to be unnecessary.  The whole goddamn thing was just so unnecessary and this weird combination of very serious business and total fucking clownshow.

[Hank Kingsley 21602]

I was just thinking about a flight my wife and I took to Los Angeles from Houston with our toddler in Spring 2019. We were one of the first groups seated. Shortly after, Ted fucking Cruz enters the plane and sits in the aisle seat right in front of us (we were in Economy Plus, fyi). He was by himself. 

Then I watched as hundreds of others got on the flight. A lot of them noticed Cruz, but didn't say anything and just went to their assigned seats. He spoke only to a single flight attendant to order multiple Diet Cokes. Not a single person wanted to engage with him, even in a pleasant way.

He couldn't make that same flight today without being endlessly harassed. Including by me and my wife. 

If he's not criminally punished for his actions, I think it's completely fair for him to be publicly shamed for the rest of his life. Hawley too. There have to be consequences. 

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Hank Kingsley

[wildcat09 29561]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't think so.  One thing that may be influencing it, though, is that I have seen the video of the shooting on several occasions.  I tend to avoid them in other cases because I don't like watching people get killed.  I can usually generate some sort of empathy or outrage without having to watch them get killed.

I'm not flat sympathetic to her.  I acknowledge her crimes.  If anyone thinks I am somehow excusing the insurrectionists by regretting her shooting and death, well you can fuck right off.

I simply question the necessity of shooting her.

I have no doubt that in court it would be legally justified, but that's not the source of my agitation about it.  We all know the courts are overly deferential to LEO.  This would be one of the more appropriate exercises of qualified immunity.

I have said on at least one occasion here that a more forceful response from Capitol Police or others would have been justified legally and every other way.  I haven't seen a lot of evidence that the force would have required shooting people, but can't rule that out, either.  Some of those fuckers were armed.

It has become more clear to me that perhaps her group advanced, violently, further than the rest of the insurrectionists.  And therefore that maybe she was "one of the worst" and more deserving of being shot than some of the others.

However, I have also learned that that door was to the "Speaker's Lobby" outside Pelosi's office and other majority House members.  That seems bad, and maybe evidence that she was a clear and present danger.  But, we also know that Pelosi's office was actually occupied by Bigo and others, so that would seem to indicate that no House members were in that space or threatened by her actions.

I believe we have also learned that it was not Secret Service that shot her, but plainclothes Capitol Police (which is relevant only in that Secret Service might indicate the close proximity of endangered House members).  I have seen no evidence that she was armed, which would change my calculus on the deal.

All in all, it would have been more satisfying and appropriate that the shooter or another officer or group instead drag her ass through the window and beat her, tase her, gas her right there in front of that crowd.  Why not a warning shot?

As far as I know, no other gunshots were fired, and certainly no others were shot.  There are bullet holes in the glass at the entrance that are unexplained.

As I think you said, I was processing the thing at the time and still am.

Maybe I'm wrong and off as so many insist, but as I continue to process it, I still find her death to be unnecessary.  The whole goddamn thing was just so unnecessary and this weird combination of very serious business and total fucking clownshow.

I don’t know for sure, but I think the plain clothes Capitol Police officers are personal security details for congressional leadership. I think it’s probably pretty likely that they hadn’t been able to get all their protectees out yet and that’s why they were so quick to use lethal force. 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20839]

The guy from Mount Vernon, Ohio who owns that van with the Donald Trump Jolly Green Penis is named Dennis Bates. This is what he believes, per his own explanation. This is the first that I've hear about Arnold Schwarznegger's involvement with Hillary's child-eating cabal:

[TwiceHorn 31995]

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I don’t know for sure, but I think the plain clothes Capitol Police officers are personal security details for congressional leadership. I think it’s probably pretty likely that they hadn’t been able to get all their protectees out yet and that’s why they were so quick to use lethal force. 

Could be.  I am unsure.  There's certainly some facts to be revealed that could change it all up.

One person I do have sympathy for is the shooter.  You can see his gun hand quivering before he takes the shot.  It wasn't a cavalier thing based on that alone.

I see the MAGAts are claiming the shooter was a black dude.  That never entered my calculus at all.  I didn't even notice it until I saw that.

Edited January 8, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19279]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

The push-propeller is an interesting and unusual design.  I don't exactly know why it's not used more often.

Ole Jenna has been a topic of conversation in this thread.  

Fuck her, vapid cunt.

Convo about her starts on page 3. 

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by PenelopeWitherspoon

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1312]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't think so.  One thing that may be influencing it, though, is that I have seen the video of the shooting on several occasions.  I tend to avoid them in other cases because I don't like watching people get killed.  I can usually generate some sort of empathy or outrage without having to watch them get killed.

I'm not flat sympathetic to her.  I acknowledge her crimes.  If anyone thinks I am somehow excusing the insurrectionists by regretting her shooting and death, well you can fuck right off.

I simply question the necessity of shooting her.

I have no doubt that in court it would be legally justified, but that's not the source of my agitation about it.  We all know the courts are overly deferential to LEO.  This would be one of the more appropriate exercises of qualified immunity.

I have said on at least one occasion here that a more forceful response from Capitol Police or others would have been justified legally and every other way.  I haven't seen a lot of evidence that the force would have required shooting people, but can't rule that out, either.  Some of those fuckers were armed.

It has become more clear to me that perhaps her group advanced, violently, further than the rest of the insurrectionists.  And therefore that maybe she was "one of the worst" and more deserving of being shot than some of the others.

However, I have also learned that that door was to the "Speaker's Lobby" outside Pelosi's office and other majority House members.  That seems bad, and maybe evidence that she was a clear and present danger.  But, we also know that Pelosi's office was actually occupied by Bigo and others, so that would seem to indicate that no House members were in that space or threatened by her actions.

I believe we have also learned that it was not Secret Service that shot her, but plainclothes Capitol Police (which is relevant only in that Secret Service might indicate the close proximity of endangered House members).  I have seen no evidence that she was armed, which would change my calculus on the deal.

All in all, it would have been more satisfying and appropriate that the shooter or another officer or group instead drag her ass through the window and beat her, tase her, gas her right there in front of that crowd.  Why not a warning shot?

As far as I know, no other gunshots were fired, and certainly no others were shot.  There are bullet holes in the glass at the entrance that are unexplained.

As I think you said, I was processing the thing at the time and still am.

Maybe I'm wrong and off as so many insist, but as I continue to process it, I still find her death to be unnecessary.  The whole goddamn thing was just so unnecessary and this weird combination of very serious business and total fucking clownshow.

In most of the videos I have seen, people in that mob were screaming that they want to kill the people that the secret service agents were there to protect. The agents were clearly visible through the door and were telling the mob not to come through. It would have been criminal not to shoot that lady as soon as she passed through that door. The threat of lethal force doesn't deter anyone if they believe the threat to be empty.

[Brisketexan 106643]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Maybe I'm pumping sunshine on a Friday, but I see a lot of good that can come out of this:

1) It's going to motivate federal law enforcement to take domestic terrorism seriously, in much the same way the Oklahoma City bombing did.  The late 1990's were a tough time to be a right-wing militia in America.  Virtually all of them were infiltrated by the FBI.  

That changed after September 11, when our law-enforcement focus shifted to Muslim extremism.  And it took a good decade for the right-wing militias to rebuild.  Now, having rebuilt, the FBI and other law-enforcement agencies are going to tear them back down.

2) It gives a lot of cover for Republicans to distance themselves from Trump.  And that is going to cause a breach within that party.

Half of that party thinks violent insurrection is great.  The other half is scared shitless of such a thing, because their power, money, and status come from operating within the current constitutional government.  They'll have the tiger as their mascot, but that fucking tiger needs to be caged.  And the second it gets out of its cage, it needs to be put down.

They're going to be fighting that tiger for the next several years (and maybe decades).  And in the meantime, they lose voters.

3) It marginalizes Trump, which in turn marginalizes his followers.  The electoral power of Trump has been that he has been able to get people who ordinarily don't vote to show up and vote for him.  But that power isn't transferable.  When he's not on the ballot, they don't show up (as evidenced in 2018 and against earlier this week in Georgia). 

These low-education marginal voters only showed up because of Trump's celebrity.  That celebrity isn't like a cloak that can be taken off and put on someone else's shoulders.  Does anybody honestly think that Josh Hawley can step into the shoes of Donald Trump and get the turnout in East Nowheresville, Ohio that Trump did?  No--because Trump is a celebrity; Hawley is a fucking senator from Missouri.

And it doesn't matter how much Trump campaigns for other candidates, his people only show up for Trump.

Even with those marginal voters, Trump lost to Biden by 7 Million votes.  Without them, the Republicans are a really very small minority, considering that we have a two-party system.

Problem with the first bolded text -- here, law enforcement is already infiltrated by Trumpist sympathizers.  And sorting out the ones who will be loyal to America vs. those who will be loyal to Trumpism is a sisyphean task.

Problem with the second bolded text -- the violent insurrectionist wing of the party has already won.  The rest of the GOP knows that if they want to have a party big enough to win anything, they have to go with them. They are all-in on being the party of treason.  The Rubicon was crossed long ago, and there's no going back.  I shared with you the thoughts of a GOP official.  He's hoping like you are.  But we both know that he's doomed.

As to the third bolded text, you may be right.  Trumpism will still win many local and state races (Alabama, holla!), but it may not be a big enough VOTING force to win national races.  BUT....here's the problem....STOP thinking of Trumpism as a voting bloc.  Start thinking of it as what it is: a radicalized terrorist movement.  They have TOLD us what they are, and what they want to do.  They have then ACTED consistent with those threats.  And they have PROMISED to continue those actions.

As noted above, if any of those people were named Muhammed and ended their statements with "Allahu Akbar!", we'd not waste 1/1000 of a second debating whether they were terrorists.  Trumpism is a radicalized terrorist movement.  That is its primary threat going forward, and the fact that it will continue to be supported by state and local "legitimate" elected officials (and fuck, NATIONAL ones - see the RNC re-electing terrorist enable Ronna McDaniel as chair this week) makes it the most dangerous terror threat we've ever faced.

For the 1,000,000th time....STOP TREATING THE GOP AND TRUMPISM LIKE A LEGITIMATE POLITICAL PARTY/MOVEMENT.  They are not.  They never were.  They are a radicalized cult and religious terrorist group, and they will continue to behave according to that character.

[hobbes2702 13353]

Just now, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

In most of the videos I have seen, people in that mob were screaming that they want to kill the people that the secret service agents were there to protect. The agents were clearly visible through the door and were telling the mob not to come through. It would have been criminal not to shoot that lady as soon as she passed through that door. The threat of lethal force doesn't deter anyone if they believe the threat to be empty.

I honestly cannot believe this discussion is still fucking happening.

[wildcat09 29561]

16 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool, cool.  Only 20-30,000 radicalized nuts showed up to participate in an attempt to violently decapitate an entire branch of government.  You should remember that they have an entire political movement behind them that -- while those people in the movement may not arm themselves and head to DC to attack our country -- SUPPORTS their efforts to do so.  Look at the polling.  Functionally half of Republicans SUPPORT the assault on Congress.

The parallels to islamofascism are rather strong.  Only a small percentage of people in islamofascist territories actually want to go be martyrs, personally kill Americans/jews etc.  But a disturbing percentage of the population supports and is okay with the small group of radicals who will do those things.  The current GOP is a terrorist organization -- it is everything that Al Qaeda and similar movements have been.  And having only 20-30k willing to commit violence for you is more than enough to have devastating effect, PARTICULARLY when they are an internal fifth column.  None of these people need to travel here from overseas, learn our language, any of that shit.  They can hop a Southwest flight, or drive their jacked up truck a few hours, and WALTZ RIGHT INTO CONGRESS.

THIS WILL ONLY GET WORSE, NOT BETTER.

Yeah, I was way too optimistic when I said we'd have the Christian taliban in 5-10 years. These people will not stop unless someone stops them and the Democratic leadership still hasn't figured it out. Things are going to get much worse.

[Horndog 2293]

2 hours ago, Red Five said:

I keep asking that question. What was their ultimate goal here? Delaying the vote does nothing. 

The unsung hero Tuesday night was the person with the presence of mind to grab the ballot certificates as the House chamber was being evacuated.

[kevwun 16303]

Seriously, start a new thread for wringing your hands over a woman who broke in to the capitol with a mob and was killed.