welcome back to the cloak room, surly conservatives

[Biff Tannen 45695]

23 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Ah, a "stricter reading of the constitution".

So, no limits on restricting the right to vote based on gender or race?  Or are you OK with the 15th and 19th Amendments?

Just a hypothetical question, you know.

Or how about the 2nd amendment?  You know, a WELL REGULATED militia.

 

21 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

The Democratic Party impeached the former POTUS.  If it had worked (conviction in Senate), the elected POTUS would have been removed from office.  That's pretty much overthrowing the results of the 2016 election.

And...yet another poster using insults, as if that does anything at all, other than making your arguments look weak. Turning to insults always do that.  But, you do you and BTHOLSU!

man.  just.  go learn.

[hookemATL 11801]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Why are you so dishonest?

What other choice do they have?  This is the same play from the Dissemblers Guide to Dissembling that all the GQP fuckbois roll out when faced with facts/reality/common sense that does not comport with their hopes for Trump Admin 2: Electric Boogaloo. 
 

Even Ray Charles, Stevie Wonder, and Helen Keller see through this transparent horseshit. 

[TXSG8R 3362]

31 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

The Democratic Party impeached the former POTUS.  If it had worked (conviction in Senate), the elected POTUS would have been removed from office.  That's pretty much overthrowing the results of the 2016 election.

And...yet another poster using insults, as if that does anything at all, other than making your arguments look weak. Turning to insults always do that.  But, you do you and BTHOLSU!

[fattyflattie 4639]

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

The Shaggy CR was basically an Obama bash fest until Trump came along

This is not the way I remember that. Maybe swam and a few other assholes I’ve been fortunate to block out of my head. 

[DDD Dad 14346]

17 hours ago, Ag with kids said:

Watching the Cowboys and eating Turkey Day food...

 

I'll get back with you tomorrow.

 

Happy Thanksgiving

 

WiFi must be spotty at the house.

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Yes, the Dems just invented impeachment out of thin air in 2019.

well after a full court press for 3 years, they had a goal in mind...

[TwiceHorn 31512]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

I feel the same way, but for me it's been since W was in office.  We went from not having true conservative candidates to following a total clown show.  It's fucked up.

The people I know who support today's GOp 100% are generally Trump all the way.  I don't equate them with necessarily being conservatives.   In fact, I see them more as radical right wingers, if you can appreciate the difference there.

It's funny, I really thought W's "compassionate conservatism" was going to be a good thing, and a way forward for the GOP.  He made a lot of what I thought at the time were "good noises" as Texas governor, but I now realize that most of that was sound and fury signifying nothing, and he turned out to be rather in thrall to evangelicals and other dark forces in the GOP.

[TwiceHorn 31512]

59 minutes ago, tchookem said:

Obama was a watershed moment for many of us conservatives. For me I saw the Tea Party and was initially on board. But gradually I saw the shift going from criticizing government bailouts to culture war BS. Throw in some anti-Obama racism (nooses, charactures, etc) and I got off that boat quickly.

But I still had the "Obamacare is unconstitutional. He's leading us to socialist ruin" fever. It was a minor case, but it was there.

Fast-forward through 8 years of criticizing criticizing bike helmets, spicy mustard requests, and tan suits. I see Obama as a decent man (no sketchy financial past, no women on the side). More important though, the world doesn't implode. Dare I say, did some policies actually work? I think that's what broke many people's brain. Some conservatives like me moved a little (or a lot) more to the middle. Others voted for Trump... twice.

Great point.  Obama was the most liberal president probably since FDR and nothing bad happened, we didn't slide in to socialism.  Obamacare kind of sucks, but also kind of doesn't.  It helped get some working poor health coverage and that's a plus.  It also changed some perspective on health insurance (catastrophic coverage only), but it's still too damned expensive.  And it didn't change a thing for people who have employee-sponsored health insurance or Medicare.

I don't understand why people believe that electing democrats equals a rapid slide into Soviet style communism.  It's just stupid and counterfactual.

For me, being a non-Republican is basically "opposite day."  What I voted for for 30 plus years wasn't working very well, so lets do the opposite for a while.

Edited November 26, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Neonmoon 38129]

Dumb people don’t actually look at the history of the issue, or the issue in general. They watch their team news site and regurgitate whatever talking point is fed to them 

[SubliminalHorn 6809]

1 hour ago, Ag with kids said:

The Democratic Party impeached the former POTUS.  If it had worked (conviction in Senate), the elected POTUS would have been removed from office.  That's pretty much overthrowing the results of the 2016 election.

And...yet another poster using insults, as if that does anything at all, other than making your arguments look weak. Turning to insults always do that.  But, you do you and BTHOLSU!

How is it overthrowing the government when it’s an actual mechanism installed by the Founding Fathers to remove a president? It’s an actual power given to Congress. 
 

Making a speech on the Ellipse encouraging a mob to stop Congress from certifying the next President IS attempting to overthrow a government. But I’m sure you loooove the constitution, except when you don’t like the results of an election. 

[SubliminalHorn 6809]

Were Republicans trying to overthrow the government with the Clinton impeachment? Oh Im sure @Ag with kids doesn’t think so. 

[Ag with kids 581]

1 minute ago, SubliminalHorn said:

Were Republicans trying to overthrow the government with the Clinton impeachment? Oh Im sure @Ag with kids doesn’t think so. 

Over throw the government?  No.  Overthrow the results of the 1996 election, sure.  And I thought it was a completely stupid thing for them to do and opened a Pandora's Box.  Impeachment is actually supposed to be a serious thing, no a political thing.  The GOP fucked up there and now we had the Dems do TWO fucking impeachments, including one of a private citizen.

I guess you don't know much about me after all...

 

[Ag with kids 581]

22 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Great point.  Obama was the most liberal president probably since FDR and nothing bad happened, we didn't slide in to socialism.  Obamacare kind of sucks, but also kind of doesn't.  It helped get some working poor health coverage and that's a plus.  It also changed some perspective on health insurance (catastrophic coverage only), but it's still too damned expensive.  And it didn't change a thing for people who have employee-sponsored health insurance or Medicare.

I don't understand why people believe that electing democrats equals a rapid slide into Soviet style communism.  It's just stupid and counterfactual.

For me, being a non-Republican is basically "opposite day."  What I voted for for 30 plus years wasn't working very well, so lets do the opposite for a while.

Who said rapid slide?

Boiling the frog takes time...

[SubliminalHorn 6809]

1 minute ago, Ag with kids said:

Over throw the government?  No.  Overthrow the results of the 1996 election, sure.  And I thought it was a completely stupid thing for them to do and opened a Pandora's Box.  Impeachment is actually supposed to be a serious thing, no a political thing.  The GOP fucked up there and now we had the Dems do TWO fucking impeachments, including one of a private citizen.

I guess you don't know much about me after all...

 

You realize he was impeached while he was still president right? Or do you not know the difference between and impeachment and conviction? 

[Ag with kids 581]

41 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

WiFi must be spotty at the house.

No.  Just wanted to do other things.

After watching the Cowboys, though, I would have been better off just doing this shitshow...

[Ag with kids 581]

2 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

You realize he was impeached while he was still president right? Or do you not know the difference between and impeachment and conviction? 

The Senate part is still part of the impeachment process...

[Sawbonz 27580]

2 hours ago, Ag with kids said:

Did you support the Democratic Party's attempt to overthrow the results of the 2016 election?

Cite all lawsuits filed by or on behalf of the HRC campaign 

Cite all public statements by HRC or proxy calling for individual precincts or states to audit their election results

Cite any calls by HRC or proxy to election officials requesting they “find her” just enough votes to put her over the top

Cite HRC refusal to concede

Cite HRC calling for her supporters to travel to DC on the day of certification, giving an incendiary 70 minute speech claiming the she won by a landslide, the election was stolen from her, that if they “don’t fight like hell you won’t have a country anymore,” and that she and they will “walk down to the Capitol and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them."

 

ETA I absolutely condemn any attempts such as they were to delegitimize Trump’s win. I also see HRC complaints after the fact as nothing more than sour grapes. She ran a historically bad campaign. I mean look who she lost to? 🤣🤣🤣

Edited November 26, 2021 by Sawbonz

[Eastwood 4394]

On 11/24/2021 at 11:51 PM, tchookem said:

On 11/24/2021 at 6:38 PM, Eastwood said:

I was one of the center right. Still am. A lot of people have gone way, way right. That includes many of my own family. I had a serious heart to heart with them a couple of months ago where I basically told them, "you guys raised me. You guys made me the man I am today. Those same people who raised me would be ashamed if I acted the way that people you are championing are acting. I hope you take that to heart because I am not seeing the people who raised me in you today."
There has been a large divergence from conservative Republicanism. I didn't go anywhere.

How is that going (if you don't mind me asking)?

Digging into the wayback machine because this thread flew. I'm assuming that you mean the family dynamic. Honestly, it went well. Their consumption of Facebook and Fox News is lower. They don't get as easily worked up and start ranting during normal conversation. They don't end some phone conversations with random warnings about whatever they've been recently told is about to happen. I think they realize they got caught up in some high school level peer pressure bullshit. It takes a level of understanding about their social dynamics to be able to bring them back to reality, even if for a brief moment. They're small town folks that attend small town church. Their social circle is small and their options are limited. It's either like the Facebook posts or agree with the rantings at the church lunch or lose all your friends with very few people available to replace them. It especially applies to church communities where the church they've gone to for decades hard-pivots into Trump Land and their choice is to either leave their church, which is a monumentally hard decision, or step in line.

With that in mind, I took a compassionate approach and even highlighted the above. I told them I understand that it is all their friends are talking about and that is all that they hear in church, but a lot of what is being celebrated is not how I was raised. I was also raised to realize that a person chooses their friends and that I shouldn't change my behavior and forget my morals just to keep friends around. That one especially had my mom take a very quiet moment on the phone.

Your results may vary, but if you are in a family that has some unconditional love left in the tank and the ability to step up and call bad behavior out without fear of losing that relationship, you gotta do it. You have to. My children need good examples in their life and I refuse to let someone they share blood with be bad examples. My family can either relearn the concepts that they taught me when I was growing up or step aside.

[Sawbonz 27580]

1 hour ago, Ag with kids said:

You don't contribute much here other than insults from what I've seen.  At least I've discussed issues.

Have fun with all that hate.

Aww poor little guy. All these mean libs just picking on you. You need a hug?

[Shaddie 1651]

Kids this is a cautionary tale for you. 
 

This is your brain on Fox News. @Ag with kids

[SubliminalHorn 6809]

16 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

The Senate part is still part of the impeachment process...

And he was still impeached while president 

[Neonmoon 38129]

According to a “conservative”, if a President is removed from office with an impeachment and conviction. Meaning a majority of House and Senate agree, meaning a majority of Americans elected representatives agree the President has committed a removable offense, that is a political act to try to overturn a duly elected President 

Stay in school kids. 

[aggie08 21508]

Just now, Neonmoon said:

According to a “conservative”, if a President is removed from office with an impeachment and conviction. Meaning a majority of House and Senate agree, meaning a majority of Americans elected representatives agree the President has committed a removable offense, that is a political act to try to overturn a duly elected President 

Stay in school kids. 

Sadly, in this case, go to a different school.

[tchookem 3905]

Digging into the wayback machine because this thread flew. I'm assuming that you mean the family dynamic. Honestly, it went well. Their consumption of Facebook and Fox News is lower. They don't get as easily worked up and start ranting during normal conversation. They don't end some phone conversations with random warnings about whatever they've been recently told is about to happen. I think they realize they got caught up in some high school level peer pressure bullshit. It takes a level of understanding about their social dynamics to be able to bring them back to reality, even if for a brief moment. They're small town folks that attend small town church. Their social circle is small and their options are limited. It's either like the Facebook posts or agree with the rantings at the church lunch or lose all your friends with very few people available to replace them. It especially applies to church communities where the church they've gone to for decades hard-pivots into Trump Land and their choice is to either leave their church, which is a monumentally hard decision, or step in line.
With that in mind, I took a compassionate approach and even highlighted the above. I told them I understand that it is all their friends are talking about and that is all that they hear in church, but a lot of what is being celebrated is not how I was raised. I was also raised to realize that a person chooses their friends and that I shouldn't change my behavior and forget my morals just to keep friends around. That one especially had my mom take a very quiet moment on the phone.
Your results may vary, but if you are in a family that has some unconditional love left in the tank and the ability to step up and call bad behavior out without fear of losing that relationship, you gotta do it. You have to. My children need good examples in their life and I refuse to let someone they share blood with be bad examples. My family can either relearn the concepts that they taught me when I was growing up or step aside.

Thanks for the reply. Good luck.

[tchookem 3905]

According to a “conservative”, if a President is removed from office with an impeachment and conviction. Meaning a majority of House and Senate agree, meaning a majority of Americans elected representatives agree the President has committed a removable offense, that is a political act to try to overturn a duly elected President 
Stay in school kids. 

Correction: to them it's an attempt to overthrow the government. Same as violently stopping the democratic process as it's happening.

For them, the government is all about one guy. They really do love autocracy.

[hobbes2702 13049]

@Ag with kids serious question, are you able to post without lying?

[Sawbonz 27580]

Just now, hobbes2702 said:

@Ag with kids serious question, are you able to post without lying?

This one of those logic puzzles?

[mchookem 16341]

4 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Where is that great link about how it’s impossible to change peoples political opinions because it’s like religious beliefs, it’s part of their identity? You cannot convince another person with facts their beliefs and identity is wrong. It’s who they are. 
 

this thread reminds me of that 

oh, i love it!

https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

bumped the thread too

[DDD Dad 14346]

14 hours ago, Bravo said:

I've been accused of being 5 different people today. Can't wait for the next one. I'll blow your mind. What if I'm all of them or none of them? What if I'm a Russian bot? 

More likely a Rocko sock than anything.  The finger/ruler and diploma photos and of course being in Hawaii would be consistent.

Edited November 26, 2021 by DDD Dad

[aggie08 21508]

32 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

Impeachment is actually supposed to be a serious thing, no a political thing. 

 

We're finally in agreement on something! If we can't impeach--and thus prohibit from holding office again--someone who has demonstrably proved that he'll lie, manipulate, yield his power to intimate state officials, directly incite violence on the seat of American democracy, and disregard all proper (and necessary) transfer of power bedrock traditions if/when he loses, then what the fuck is the point of it?

[DDD Dad 14346]

35 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

The Senate part is still part of the impeachment process...

Actually it isn't.  Article 1 Section 2 provides that the House of Representatives "shall have the sole Power of Impeachment."  Art. I, Sec. 2.

The Senate has "the sole Power to try all Impeachments."  Art. I, Sec. 3.

It's like how a Grand Jury has the sole power of indictment but a criminal court has the sole power to try all indictments.

[DDD Dad 14346]

2 hours ago, Ag with kids said:

Have fun with all that hate.

Definitely showing signs of Rocko posting.

[Neonmoon 38129]

20 minutes ago, mchookem said:

oh, i love it!

https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

bumped the thread too

Yessssssssssss

Found the picture of Ag with Kids

[Sawbonz 27580]

2 hours ago, Ag with kids said:

Trump would be no longer be POTUS and that wouldn't overthrow the results of the 2016 election which was that the electorate wanted Trump to be POTUS?

No…

[StassneyHorn 6624]

2 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

This is not the way I remember that. Maybe swam and a few other assholes I’ve been fortunate to block out of my head. 

It was a trash fest 

[Ag with kids 581]

1 hour ago, hobbes2702 said:

@Ag with kids serious question, are you able to post without lying?

I do it all the time.

Sorry that you disagree with me.

Is this where you call me a racist, fascist, nazi?

[Ag with kids 581]

24 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

No…

Yes.

[SubliminalHorn 6809]

Just now, Ag with kids said:

Yes.

Congress is more representative of the people. Congress is (supposed to be anyway) the most important branch. So, no. 

[hobbes2702 13049]

3 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

I do it all the time.

Sorry that you disagree with me.

Is this where you call me a racist, fascist, nazi?

Then why have you lied multiple times in this thread?

Try to tame your victim hood. It’s amazing that the fuck your feeling crowd gets their feefees hurt that someone calls them names. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by hobbes2702

[Sawbonz 27580]

1 minute ago, Ag with kids said:

Yes.

I mean if you don’t care about little things like the definitions of words maybe

[Ag with kids 581]

49 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Yessssssssssss

Found the picture of Ag with Kids

You're cute.  At least this is a better insult than all the other posters who just toss out garbage insults.  This one took some Google Fu.  I can appreciate that.

[Ag with kids 581]

Just now, hobbes2702 said:

Then why have you lied multiple times in this thread?

I haven't.

[mchookem 16341]

3 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

You're cute.  At least this is a better insult than all the other posters who just toss out garbage insults.  This one took some Google Fu.  I can appreciate that.

no it didn't b/c i posted the link for him and i have it bookmarked b/c i sometimes have to remind myself when i'm feeling particularly frustrated with someone who refuses to acknowledge facts that there's a scientific reason their brain is blocking them from seeing reality. 

you should give the whole thing a read, it definitely caused me some self-reflection when i first saw it years ago. but i also don't support the political party that specifically renounces higher order logic and critical thinking skills in their platform, so i got that going for me, which is nice. 

[Ag with kids 581]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

Cite all lawsuits filed by or on behalf of the HRC campaign 

Cite all public statements by HRC or proxy calling for individual precincts or states to audit their election results

Cite any calls by HRC or proxy to election officials requesting they “find her” just enough votes to put her over the top

Cite HRC refusal to concede

Cite HRC calling for her supporters to travel to DC on the day of certification, giving an incendiary 70 minute speech claiming the she won by a landslide, the election was stolen from her, that if they “don’t fight like hell you won’t have a country anymore,” and that she and they will “walk down to the Capitol and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them."

 

ETA I absolutely condemn any attempts such as they were to delegitimize Trump’s win. I also see HRC complaints after the fact as nothing more than sour grapes. She ran a historically bad campaign. I mean look who she lost to? 🤣🤣🤣

I pointed out it was the Impeachment that the Democratic Party used.  Why should I respond to any of those demands when I haven't posited them?

I appreciate your strawman attempts, but don't really feel like responding to them.

[Ag with kids 581]

1 minute ago, mchookem said:

no it didn't b/c i posted the link for him and i have it bookmarked b/c i sometimes have to remind myself when i'm feeling particularly frustrated with someone who refuses to acknowledge facts that there's a scientific reason their brain is blocking them from seeing reality. 

you should give the whole thing a read, it definitely caused me some self-reflection when i first saw it years ago. but i also don't support the political party that specifically renounces higher order logic and critical thinking skills in their platform, so i got that going for me, which is nice. 

Damn.  And I took you for a Democrat.  Mea culpa.

[hobbes2702 13049]

10 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

I haven't.

You’ve lied multiple times in this thread, I’ve addressed it each time. Now you’re throwing a tantrum and putting your fingers in your ears like a child. Grow up Peter pan

[hobbes2702 13049]

12 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I mean if you don’t care about little things like the definitions of words maybe

Just completely ignoring reality at this point. Literally just an absolute refusal to just admit he was wrong 

[Ag with kids 581]

2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

You’ve lied multiple times in this thread, I’ve addressed it each time. Now you’re throwing a tantrum and putting your fingers in your ears like a child. Grow up Peter pan

No I haven't.  You stating that I've lied doesn't make it true, no matter how important you think your opinion is.

[DDD Dad 14346]

Just now, Ag with kids said:

No I haven't.  You stating that I've lied doesn't make it true, no matter how important you think your opinion is.

I look forward to seeing your thread in purgatory.

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Just completely ignoring reality at this point. Literally just an absolute refusal to just admit he was wrong 

When character in your leaders doesn't matter to you at all, you grow numb to your own shortcomings.

This is actually why I wanted Clinton to resign back in the 90s -- character matters. Of course, his sins look cute next to those of Trump, Gaetz, et al.