Jump to content

welcome back to the cloak room, surly conservatives

elfenix

By elfenix
in Cloak Room

 Share

Recommended Posts

AnTiM

AnTiM 1657

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

Then stop lying, asshole.

Someone tell me who it was just a few posts back that complained about someone calling him names, and also said it was something he never did... someone quite near, I am thinking.

  • Hook 'Em 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 1.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

elfenix
elfenix

a big fuck you but at least now you can stop fucking up the rest of the board spewing thinly-veiled political bullshit while pretending you're not.

crash_davis
crash_davis

If you are still a Trump supporter through all of this bullshit FUCK YOU. You're a deranged fucking cult idiot.

Biff Tannen
Biff Tannen

Conservatives?  A lot of those have been here the whole time.  I think you mean seditious traitors and/or fascists.

Posted Images

TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31240

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Seems a bit flimsy for a system that is suppose to have adversarial advocacy as a fundamental tenet, no?

Well, if one party chooses not to show up  . . . yeah it kind of kills off the adversary system.

This wasn't a closely followed "gun control" decision, it an obscure criminal conviction appeal.  There were no amicii or others to stand in for the defendant, as there would be today.

It is a poorly thought out decision.  Its author, McReynolds, is high on the list of worst Supreme Court justices, mostly because of overt bigotry.  But the fact that he couldn't hide his bigotry tends to indicate that maybe he was kind of a dumbass, too.

Edited by TwiceHorn
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45491

Posted
Posted
48 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

Have you ever used any kind of weapon?

Or are you just the weak, spineless, and fearful that doesn't have a clue about them?

I have.  I own one.  Also, -109?  

austin-powers-why-wont-you-die.gif

 

34 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Yeah, I'd rather women stop their attacker effectively than be harmed.

You're an idiot.

  • Hook 'Em 3
  • Haha 1
  • Fuck You 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ag with kids

Ag with kids 581

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

burning pants on fire GIF

Yea see it’s really easy for people to see all the lies you’ve posted in this thread. I actually consolidated them a few pages back. 


Post a link to that then because I've gone back to page 18 and can't find it and I'm not digging through the whole thread to find your stupid bullshit.

  • Hook 'Em 6
  • Fuck You 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites
AnTiM

AnTiM 1657

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:


I know, right? I started a new thread for him over there.

I'm thinking he somehow became a moderator and is now in the process of banning everyone but himself because that is the only way he will ever be satisfied.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
On 12/4/2021 at 6:47 PM, Walden Ponderer said:

I look forward to the day when I, an actual capital L Liberal, am no longer lumped in with the real conservatives whose party left them behind in its wild lurch to the radical right. I miss arguing with people who actually believe something.

Until then, it's gonna be flavor of the week time with all these nutjobs who carry water for the most despicable man to ever hold office.

The left claiming the right has moved far right is just straight gaslighting.

 

extremes.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13049

Posted
Posted

Here is a link to Mr. Sack's graph and the article that explains more about the survey of 5000 adults that was conducted to build that graph:

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2017/10/05/the-partisan-divide-on-political-values-grows-even-wider/

 

It is several pages long so take your time. It also contains quite a bit of detail and nuance that make for a worthy discussion.

 

  • Hook 'Em 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13049

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

What year is it?

What year is the simulation or what year did Pew publish the article? We are in the year 2021, Pew's article is from 2017. It's hard to have a discussion if one starts off with the graph sans substance. While a graph is succinct, it is designed to supplement the material under review and deliberation, IMO. I could show you a graph of a person's financial situation growing from this: $0 to this: $100,000. Great right?  Then you discover that the person robbed a bank. Not implying that is the case here, but one should elaborate when using illustrative materials.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Pam Cummings

Pam Cummings 9560

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Because the Surly Trumpies are white knighting for the guy and getting him out of hock.  He is a liar and a troll and should be perma-banned.

Lulz, i just clicked on his profile and saw the circle jerk of rep for that guy. People need to get a life.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

What I find funny about Sack's chart is how much of the Dems' move left is simply the party becoming much less racist:

4_9.png.fccd95f903adf58ec151de2fd1c98ef3.png

Yup, we've gotten really fucking radical, believing that immigrants work hard. That's some real wild commie shit.

Yep. One thing that does unify the nihilistic Republican Party is their collective fear of brown immigrants taking over the country and the great replacement theory.
 

Oh and their dislike of 90 percent of black people because of the way they vote. They love them some Allen west though. 

It’s why they’re such big supporters of guns. Can’t shoot the immigrants and black invaders of white neighborhoods if you don’t have your gun. 

  • Hook 'Em 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted

I think policy-wise, I can accept that true conservatives have probably moved less to the outlier area than have their true liberal counterparts on the other side of the spectrum.  But the hate-filled shit like no abortions after the week you get pregnant, making it nearly impossible for huge groups of people to vote, ripping masks off of teachers in public...that kinda shit to me isn't really a tilt in conservativsm, it's stupid people doing mean shit under the veil of "conservativsm."  Which don't get me wrong, is still a huge fucking problem for conservatism.  And America.

Of course the CR has some seriously demented hard-leftists that I still don't understand after all these years.  But there are so many more folks in here who, like me, probably started out life socially moderate, and have gotten way more socially liberal.  That runs contrary to what many conservatives on this site have experienced, they have leaned in harder to social conservatism as they age; and they see posters like me, and many of you as well, and think, "Fucking liberal CR cabal, pissing on everything decent in America in the name of wokeness/cancel culture/political correctness/insert whatever term here."  When really it's just that many of us just get tired of being mean to people who are different and it doesn't really ever accomplish anything, just makes an angrier maze for the inevitable to still solve.  It's exhausting being a dick constantly (I'm good at it though, in really short spurts).  

the other problem for "conservatism" in the here and now is what they let happen in the last 6 years to "the movement."  Barack Obama was a charismatic leader who the left adored, and nearly worshipped.  Don't forget that.  They, too, were enveloped in their own Cult of Personality---and they still can't admit it even though they parted ways years ago.  And I had, and still have, grave concerns for a number of Obama policy decisions during his tenure.  But Obama is a moral man, is a good man, is a loving man, is a humble man, and above all else---Obama is a smart man (in almost every sense of that word).  I take no issue with people idolizing a man that smart, with that kind of conviction and optimism, and with that sense of caring.  What will baffle me until the end of time is how the "conservative" movement embraced a man with absolutely no conservative characteristics about him whatsoever.  And on top of all that, their prized and adored godKing is not only not smart, there are several objective analytics that suggest he is very likely to be below average intelligence.  He also has no "street-smarts", very little ability to read people/low interpersonal intelligence, low reasoning ability, not well-read, a poor speaker, low vocabulary/speaks within final vocabulary contexts too frequently, seems on TV to have poor spatial intelligence, and does not seem to be terribly comfortable with maths nor numbers.  But can he fire up a group of stupid people at a moment's notice?  Best there ever was.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
wildcat09

wildcat09 29213

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I think policy-wise, I can accept that true conservatives have probably moved less to the outlier area than have their true liberal counterparts on the other side of the spectrum.  But the hate-filled shit like no abortions after the week you get pregnant, making it nearly impossible for huge groups of people to vote, ripping masks off of teachers in public...that kinda shit to me isn't really a tilt in conservativsm, it's stupid people doing mean shit under the veil of "conservativsm."  Which don't get me wrong, is still a huge fucking problem for conservatism.  And America.

Of course the CR has some seriously demented hard-leftists that I still don't understand after all these years.  But there are so many more folks in here who, like me, probably started out life socially moderate, and have gotten way more socially liberal.  That runs contrary to what many conservatives on this site have experienced, they have leaned in harder to social conservatism as they age; and they see posters like me, and many of you as well, and think, "Fucking liberal CR cabal, pissing on everything decent in America in the name of wokeness/cancel culture/political correctness/insert whatever term here."  When really it's just that many of us just get tired of being mean to people who are different and it doesn't really ever accomplish anything, just makes an angrier maze for the inevitable to still solve.  It's exhausting being a dick constantly (I'm good at it though, in really short spurts).  

the other problem for "conservatism" in the here and now is what they let happen in the last 6 years to "the movement."  Barack Obama was a charismatic leader who the left adored, and nearly worshipped.  Don't forget that.  They, too, were enveloped in their own Cult of Personality---and they still can't admit it even though they parted ways years ago.  And I had, and still have, grave concerns for a number of Obama policy decisions during his tenure.  But Obama is a moral man, is a good man, is a loving man, is a humble man, and above all else---Obama is a smart man (in almost every sense of that word).  I take no issue with people idolizing a man that smart, with that kind of conviction and optimism, and with that sense of caring.  What will baffle me until the end of time is how the "conservative" movement embraced a man with absolutely no conservative characteristics about him whatsoever.  And on top of all that, their prized and adored godKing is not only not smart, there are several objective analytics that suggest he is very likely to be below average intelligence.  He also has no "street-smarts", very little ability to read people/low interpersonal intelligence, low reasoning ability, not well-read, a poor speaker, low vocabulary/speaks within final vocabulary contexts too frequently, seems on TV to have poor spatial intelligence, and does not seem to be terribly comfortable with maths nor numbers.  But can he fire up a group of stupid people at a moment's notice?  Best there ever was.  

Centrists and center-left liberals loved him. The actual left liked him during his campaign, quickly grew disillusioned with him in his first two years in office, and now basically hates him. 

The rest I pretty much agree with, though I will credit Trump with an instinctive con artist's intelligence. I don't think there's much time spent on actual serious thought there, moreso an innate understanding of what will appeal to certain types of marks. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted (edited)

Good point about the confidence-man intelligence.  He does excel at that.  Built a decent brand with that skill, and almost just that skill alone.  That his most ardent followers don't see the con, is what makes him so brilliant at it.  They're confusing a scam with a confidence job.  A scam is what Boebert is doing, and poorly I might add.  She's trying, desperately, to get you to trust that she's smart and conservative and will shake up Washington.  What Trump does is not get you to trust him, he acts like that part is irrelevant (and it kind of is).  He gets you to try to convince him to trust you. 

He arranges it so that you are the one seeking validation and trust from him.  And how do you display that offer of "please trust me Mr. Trump, I'm on your team" to him since you can't engage him personally?  By sending him all of your money, adorning your home, truck, boat, and even your person in his merchandise.  By driving cross country to a rally, filming yourself owning a liberal, and by attempting to sack the seat of the U.S. Government.  

He's not a grifter.  He's a Confidence Man.  And you're not a patriot.  You're a Mark.  

Edited by Lobo
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Walden Ponderer

Walden Ponderer 12639

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Centrists and center-left liberals loved him. The actual left liked him during his campaign, quickly grew disillusioned with him in his first two years in office, and now basically hates him. 

Hate is too strong a word. I am disappointed by his refusal to admit the nature of the intransigence he was dealing with. And I was appalled by his Iraq and Afghanistan belligerence.

But even though he was a classic centrist, he was as far to the left as it was possible to drag the Democratic Party at the time. And he was a good and honorable man. There's not enough of those in public life, regardless of political leanings. Character matters.

  • Hook 'Em 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19092

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I think policy-wise, I can accept that true conservatives have probably moved less to the outlier area than have their true liberal counterparts on the other side of the spectrum.  But the hate-filled shit like no abortions after the week you get pregnant, making it nearly impossible for huge groups of people to vote, ripping masks off of teachers in public...that kinda shit to me isn't really a tilt in conservativsm, it's stupid people doing mean shit under the veil of "conservativsm."  Which don't get me wrong, is still a huge fucking problem for conservatism.  And America.

Of course the CR has some seriously demented hard-leftists that I still don't understand after all these years.  But there are so many more folks in here who, like me, probably started out life socially moderate, and have gotten way more socially liberal.  That runs contrary to what many conservatives on this site have experienced, they have leaned in harder to social conservatism as they age; and they see posters like me, and many of you as well, and think, "Fucking liberal CR cabal, pissing on everything decent in America in the name of wokeness/cancel culture/political correctness/insert whatever term here."  When really it's just that many of us just get tired of being mean to people who are different and it doesn't really ever accomplish anything, just makes an angrier maze for the inevitable to still solve.  It's exhausting being a dick constantly (I'm good at it though, in really short spurts).  

the other problem for "conservatism" in the here and now is what they let happen in the last 6 years to "the movement."  Barack Obama was a charismatic leader who the left adored, and nearly worshipped.  Don't forget that.  They, too, were enveloped in their own Cult of Personality---and they still can't admit it even though they parted ways years ago.  And I had, and still have, grave concerns for a number of Obama policy decisions during his tenure.  But Obama is a moral man, is a good man, is a loving man, is a humble man, and above all else---Obama is a smart man (in almost every sense of that word).  I take no issue with people idolizing a man that smart, with that kind of conviction and optimism, and with that sense of caring.  What will baffle me until the end of time is how the "conservative" movement embraced a man with absolutely no conservative characteristics about him whatsoever.  And on top of all that, their prized and adored godKing is not only not smart, there are several objective analytics that suggest he is very likely to be below average intelligence.  He also has no "street-smarts", very little ability to read people/low interpersonal intelligence, low reasoning ability, not well-read, a poor speaker, low vocabulary/speaks within final vocabulary contexts too frequently, seems on TV to have poor spatial intelligence, and does not seem to be terribly comfortable with maths nor numbers.  But can he fire up a group of stupid people at a moment's notice?  Best there ever was.  

This this this.  

I think a lot of folks in the US must not have a lot of friends from different countries or cultures.  They also are not well traveled (something like only 40% of Americans have a passport).  If they got out of their towns in bumfuck America, or made friends with people different than they are, they might understand how hateful the GQP actually fucking is.  

  • Hook 'Em 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13049

Posted
Posted (edited)

This is a more recent article by Pew that readers here may find useful fodder for discussion and debate:

Link first: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/11/09/beyond-red-vs-blue-the-political-typology-2/

The article is from November of this year and here is a brief snippet of the contents:

Beyond Red vs. Blue: The Political Typology

Even in a polarized era, deep divisions in both partisan coalitions

Spoiler

 

Partisan polarization remains the dominant, seemingly unalterable condition of American politics. Republicans and Democrats agree on very little – and when they do, it often is in the shared belief that they have little in common.

Yet the gulf that separates Republicans and Democrats sometimes obscures the divisions and diversity of views that exist within both partisan coalitions – and the fact that many Americans do not fit easily into either one.

Republicans are divided on some principles long associated with the GOP: an affinity for businesses and corporations, support for low taxes and opposition to abortion. Democrats face substantial internal differences as well – some that are long-standing, such as on the importance of religion in society, others more recent. For example, while Democrats widely share the goal of combating racial inequality in the United States, they differ on whether systemic change is required to achieve that goal.

Chart shows the 2021 political typology

These intraparty disagreements present multiple challenges for both parties: They complicate the already difficult task of governing in a divided nation. In addition, to succeed politically, the parties must maintain the loyalty of highly politically engaged, more ideological voters, while also attracting support among less engaged voters – many of them younger – with weaker partisan ties.

Pew Research Center’s new political typology provides a road map to today’s fractured political landscape. It segments the public into nine distinct groups, based on an analysis of their attitudes and values. The study is primarily based on a survey of 10,221 adults conducted July 8-18, 2021; it also draws from several additional interviews with these respondents conducted since January 2020.

This is the Center’s eighth political typology since 1987, but it differs from earlier such studies in several important ways. It is the first typology conducted on Pew Research Center’s nationally representative American Trends Panel, which provides the benefit of a large sample size and the ability to include a wealth of other political data for the analysis, including the Center’s validated voter study.

The four Democratic-oriented typology groups highlight the party’s racial and ethnic diversity, as well as the unwieldy nature of the current Democratic coalition. (For complete descriptions of all nine typology groups see Chapters 3-11; for profiles of the Democratic and Republican coalitions see Chapters 1 and 2 of this report.)

They include two very different groups of liberal Democrats: Progressive Left and Establishment Liberals. Progressive Left, the only majority White, non-Hispanic group of Democrats, have very liberal views on virtually every issue and support far-reaching changes to address racial injustice and expand the social safety net. Establishment Liberals, while just as liberal in many ways as Progressive Left, are far less persuaded of the need for sweeping change.

Two other Democratic-aligned groups could not be more different from each other, both demographically and in their relationship to the party. Democratic Mainstays, the largest Democratic-oriented group, as well as the oldest on average, are unshakeable Democratic loyalists and have a moderate tilt on some issues. Outsider Left, the youngest typology group, voted overwhelmingly for Joe Biden a year ago and are very liberal in most of their views, but they are deeply frustrated with the political system – including the Democratic Party and its leaders.

The four Republican-oriented groups include three groups of conservatives: Faith and Flag Conservatives are intensely conservative in all realms; they are far more likely than all other typology groups to say government policies should support religious values and that compromise in politics is just “selling out on what you believe in.” Committed Conservatives also express conservative views across the board, but with a somewhat softer edge, particularly on issues of immigration and America’s place in the world. Populist Right, who have less formal education than most other typology groups and are among the most likely to live in rural areas, are highly critical of both immigrants and major U.S. corporations.

Ambivalent Right, the youngest and least conservative GOP-aligned group, hold conservative views about the size of government, the economic system and issues of race and gender. But they are the only group on the political right in which majorities favor legal abortion and say marijuana should be legal for recreational and medical use. They are also distinct in their views about Donald Trump – while a majority voted for him in 2020, most say they would prefer he not continue to be a major political figure.

The only typology group without a clear partisan orientation – Stressed Sideliners – also is the group with the lowest level of political engagement. Stressed Sideliners, who make up 15% of the public but constituted just 10% of voters in 2020, have a mix of conservative and liberal views but are largely defined by their minimal interest in politics.

The article is about ten pages long so I only clipped the first couple of paragraphs for your perusal and again, there are more pages with lots of detail.

Edited by Mrs Whiggins
  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Lobo said:

Good point about the confidence-man intelligence.  He does excel at that.  Built a decent brand with that skill, and almost just that skill alone.  That his most ardent followers don't see the con, is what makes him so brilliant at it.  They're confusing a scam with a confidence job.  A scam is what Boebert is doing, and poorly I might add.  She's trying, desperately, to get you to trust that she's smart and conservative and will shake up Washington.  What Trump does is not get you to trust him, he acts like that part is irrelevant (and it kind of is).  He gets you to try to convince him to trust you. 

He arranges it so that you are the one seeking validation and trust from him.  And how do you display that offer of "please trust me Mr. Trump, I'm on your team" to him since you can't engage him personally?  By sending him all of your money, adorning your home, truck, boat, and even your person in his merchandise.  By driving cross country to a rally, filming yourself owning a liberal, and by attempting to sack the seat of the U.S. Government.  

He's not a grifter.  He's a Confidence Man.  And you're not a patriot.  You're a Mark.  

there's a lot to this.

and there's a lot to those republicans who are following his lead. it's not about policy any longer.

it's about the grift. 

it's as simple as that, and it makes me sad as the nation mourns the loss of al gore. bunch of fucking carnival barkers out here claiming to be republicans/conservatives, and people are lining up for the fucking snake oil.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31240

Posted
Posted

Well, it's really about power and retaining it.  Secondarily about winning elections.

Before I quit being a Republican, I thought most of the rational policies, like cutting spending, or streamlining government, weren't something on which they could get elected.  So they resorted to 'bortion and things like that that I had little stomach for.

And those weren't working well, either.

So Trump comes along and recasts or pulls back the curtain on GOP policies in a way that's attractive to those "left behind."

And, I'm afraid that the GQP has said fuck it, I don't care if he's a flaming asshole, or this is not good for the country, I can win with this and stay in office a few more terms, which is where the grift comes in. 

And now I think they're justifying their existence based on the adoration of nativist morons (if Bubba wants a retrograde authoritarian government, it must be ok!).  Whereas the GOP used to stand for doing things that might be temporarily unpleasant, but were good for the long-term health of the country.

  • Hook 'Em 3
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13049

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

there's a lot to this.

and there's a lot to those republicans who are following his lead. it's not about policy any longer.

it's about the grift. 

it's as simple as that, and it makes me sad as the nation mourns the loss of al gore. bunch of fucking carnival barkers out here claiming to be republicans/conservatives, and people are lining up for the fucking snake oil.

It isn't solely the grift though. The toppling of American government furthers the grift because authoritarian leaders such as Putin, Orban (iliberal democracy he calls his), Bolsonaro, and Lukashenko hold sham elections and maintain the fleecing of their populations while funneling the money that would be spent on infrastructure and bettering lives of  the taxpayers toward their appointed cronies in government positions that are mainly social networks w/o substance. The power that comes with that enables not only the grift, but fuels the need for the sadists that wish to have a repressive theocratic form of government because it is easier to discover the "rebels" in that regard. You either toe the line or go to jail, lose your children, die of poisoning or some other cause. Each successive year that an authoritarian remains in control, especially in our surveillance age, makes it much more difficult to overcome. Once a coup/takeover is successful it becomes a part of the landscape, a history, and once done is hard to become undone.

The GOP is about the grift and a win at all costs philosophy. The believe and support minority rule by whatever means necessary.

@TwiceHorn right on the money and faster with the typing.

Edited by Mrs Whiggins
  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing


Football ... Basketball ... Baseball ... Other Sports ... Futbol ... 🤫995🤫 ... Gambling ... Movies & TV ... Music ... Hobbies ... Lulz ... Food & Travel ... Daily Texan ... Business and Markets ... Cloak Room ... Help ... For Sale ... Board Discussion ... Subscribe!... Donate!... Advertise... COOKIE MONSTER!

×
×
  • Create New...