welcome back to the cloak room, surly conservatives

[hobbes2702 12771]

18 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

Nice list of vague talking points.

I know they don’t support democracy because they believe the election was stolen without evidence. I know they don’t support the peaceful transition of power because of Jan 6. I know they don’t support voting rights because I can read.

You’re complaining about cloak room while bringing no actual points to discussion and telling others to bring the meat. You aren’t advocating any position other than “prove it”. That’s your party in a nutshell.

Edited November 25, 2021 by hobbes2702

[TwiceHorn 31184]

11 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

Again...vague talking points.  State the position of the Republicans and then give an explanation of why it's bad in your opinion.

I can post a list of things I disagree with the left on.  That's not difficult.

This is laughable.  The Republicans have no policies to state.  Unless you want to count "nos."

No immigration reform.  No regulation of firearms of any kind.  No Roe v. Wade.  No transgenders in bathrooms or playing sports.  No infrastructure spending.  No addressing climate change.  No tax hikes.  No addressing of healthcare.  No reform or forgiveness of student debt.  No attempt to address the wealth and income gaps.

Democrats have a range of policy proposals on most of these issues.  They aren't perfect, many of them go too far in terms of cost and government entanglement with private life and business.

But all the Republicans say is "no."  And, frequently, generate lies and distortions -- propaganda -- against these proposals.  There is no honest debate.

Republicans do have lots of vague talking points, though.  Shitloads of them.  SoCIAlisM is about to drown them all out, though.

Edited November 25, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[atomheartbevo 89362]

9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well-stated.  Some things, like "trickle down economics" and the attendant laissez faire attitude toward business regulation, that seemed plausible 20 years ago, have been a near-complete failure at anything but enriching the corporate classes.

Either side is going to spend money like a drunken sailor.  I am now more amenable to spending more of it on the people than on the corporations.

And that's just it - you bring up trickle-down economics and business regulation.  I was thinking of the drug war, their attitudes on gays, and dealing with illegal immigrants.  I"m sure others (Brisket, etc.) would bring up other failed policies that bug them.

These things have not worked over the decades, and yet they still trot them out there as a solution to what ails us.

[hobbes2702 12771]

@Ag with kids

Please post the Republican Party platform so that we can then let you know how they’ve shifted. Do you think you can do that?

[Brisketexan 104463]

Well-stated.  Some things, like "trickle down economics" and the attendant laissez faire attitude toward business regulation, that seemed plausible 20 years ago, have been a near-complete failure at anything but enriching the corporate classes.
Either side is going to spend money like a drunken sailor.  I am now more amenable to spending more of it on the people than on the corporations.

This too. I am a rational person who engages in evidence-based reasoning. The hypotheses of “trickle down” and the like made sense to me. I supported trying them.

We’ve tried them. Repeatedly. The results are clear: they don’t work, and only enrich the corporate classes/aspiring oligarchs.

So, I applied the logical reasoning - that I mistakenly THOUGHT was one of the hallmarks of being a thinking conservative - and I no longer support those things.

And I now live in a world where things like logical reasoning make me a “libtard.”

Immigration, look at W and look now. Those aren’t vague talking points. You just appear to support a party without knowing anything about them. You can look up all of this pretty easily. You’ll have trouble finding policy positions for the party though. Do you know why that is?

The comparison to W on immigration is perfect here. It’s something I always gave him an A on. His position was pragmatic, based on practical economic and humanitarian considerations, and would have led to sound immigration policy and a relatively controlled border instead of the counterproductive shitshow we have now. And W’s take on immigration would 100% make him an “open borders libtard” to today’s GQP.

Oh yeah…Q. Let’s not forget that shit. 30% of the GQP buys into insane conspiracy theories and thinks it’s ok to use violence to seize power. In my country.

I’m a conservative: I oppose people who think like that. They are violently destabilizing to the order of our Republic. The more I think this through, I’m pretty certain that I’m WAY more conservative than you are. But you’re WAY more Republican than I am. That divergence is the whole problem.

[Brothahorn 10085]

LOL.. I never left. Just adopted a live and let fools be fools attitude.

I mean no matter what facts are presented, some folks are not going to be receptive. So why waste their time? AND, more importantly my time trying to have a decent conversation.

Also, talking politics is like playing dominoes, there's plenty of room to talk shit. Just be honest and acknowledge when you lose. I still read the threads, I'm just more picky about what I respond to.

[Ag with kids 581]

28 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

a) don’t be a coward.
ii) the cool thing is, I don’t have to guess. They literally published something that told us exactly what they think. It said, functionally, “whatever Trump wants.” Seriously, that was the stated party platform.
3) you want some? Ok - hollering about immigrants as the cause of literally all of our problems. Drugs? The economy? COVID? Blame immigrants! But wait, they don’t have a problem with LEGAL immigrants, just illegals. Wait, what’s that, they then shifted the goalposts and are working like hell to cut off legal immigration, too? Nazis marching in Charlottesville are good people? Supporters literally yelling “heil Trump?” An orchestrated campaign to delegitimize all media that doesn’t blindly support the regime, using the exact “lugenpresse” play the Nazis ran? Come on, man. This is going to get even more embarrassing for you, because I have 100 more of these.
IV) funny thing….Godwin himself said “nope, it’s cool, compare them to Nazis, it fits.”

Some of us have read a book or two. We know the plays and systems that authoritarians run on their rise to power, including the Nazis. And we’ve watched, with horror, as they’re being run again, right here at home. Even including the brown shirts and a violent attack on the legitimate government. Remember that one? That’s what your party has wrought. And do they own it, and try to make good? No. They double down. They call terrorists who literally attacked the heart of my government “tourists.” They fight any investigation or accountability.

If you stand with a party that supports those things, or the the better LEAST…those aren’t dealbreakers for you….then I know all I need to know about you.

I am a patriotic american. I love my country. And I hate - and I mean hate - those who attack it, and those who support, enable, and excuse them. You may as well be supporting, enabling, and excusing Al Qaeda.

I mean, if you want to know which “conservative values” I still hold dear, and why they mean that I hate the Republicans and those who support them. You fucking asked. I’m telling.

 

a) don’t be a coward.

 

Fuck you.  I tried posting on here for just a few weeks and realized this place is basically a burnt orange DemocraticUnderground.  I am glad that the posters here have refrained from neg repping me during this conversation.  It took me a year and a half of posting only on Food & Travel to get positive.

 

ii) the cool thing is, I don’t have to guess. They literally published something that told us exactly what they think. It said, functionally, “whatever Trump wants.” Seriously, that was the stated party platform.

 

[url=https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/2016-republican-party-platform]The 2016 Republican Party platform[/url]

 

So, with the same candidate on the ballot, they didn’t change the platform?  What’s your point?

 

3) you want some? Ok - hollering about immigrants as the cause of literally all of our problems.

 

Drugs? The economy? COVID? Blame immigrants!

 

Well, Republicans DON’T do that, but maybe you’re listening to the wrong echo chamber.

 

But wait, they don’t have a problem with LEGAL immigrants, just illegals. Wait, what’s that, they then shifted the goalposts and are working like hell to cut off legal immigration, too?

 

This is incorrect.

 

Nazis marching in Charlottesville are good people? Supporters literally yelling “heil Trump?”

 

WTF?  So if a psycho asshole says BRISKETEXAN IS MY HERO, then you’re guilty for anything he does?

 

An orchestrated campaign to delegitimize all media that doesn’t blindly support the regime, using the exact “lugenpresse” play the Nazis ran? Come on, man. This is going to get even more embarrassing for you, because I have 100 more of these.

IV) funny thing….Godwin himself said “nope, it’s cool, compare them to Nazis, it fits.”

 

HAHAHA. Yeah… the Republicans/right control the media.  Torbush…

 

Some of us have read a book or two. We know the plays and systems that authoritarians run on their rise to power, including the Nazis. And we’ve watched, with horror, as they’re being run again, right here at home. Even including the brown shirts and a violent attack on the legitimate government. Remember that one? That’s what your party has wrought. And do they own it, and try to make good? No. They double down.

 

I read books too.

 

1984

 

A Day In The Life Of Ivan Denisovitch

 

The Gulag Archepeligo

 

They call terrorists who literally attacked the heart of my government “tourists.” They fight any investigation or accountability.

 

Nah…they’re an “idea”.

 

Because all of the attacks on federal buildings for 2 years where they destroyed and burned property and all the personnel had to evacuate was not a big deal - because the right wasn’t doing it.

 

If you stand with a party that supports those things, or the the better LEAST…those aren’t dealbreakers for you….then I know all I need to know about you.

 

Don’t know what party you stand with but I don’t stand with that stuff…

 

I am a patriotic american. I love my country. And I hate - and I mean hate - those who attack it, and those who support, enable, and excuse them. You may as well be supporting, enabling, and excusing Al Qaeda.

 

I mean, if you want to know which “conservative values” I still hold dear, and why they mean that I hate the Republicans and those who support them. You fucking asked. I’m telling.

 

Hey…support your version of fascism.  I’ll just disagree with you.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

Or just separate Daily Texan into two forums - Daily Texan/Current Events and Shooting the Shit.

I honestly don't give a shit in here any more.  There's too many good folks on all sides of our politics to keep fighting all the time.  Finally, I just said, fuck that.  I figure most of the people on here would be civil if we were neighbors.

I like cussing and discussing as much as anyone, but fuck the sleight of hand bullshit posts by a lot of folks.  Fuck the folks who deliberately take shots and then get all coy about it.  They aren't clever.  They're just assholes...and not the good kind of Surly asshole, either.  Some folks would get their asses kicked straight up for some of the bitchass posting they pull, if they behaved that way face to face.

I ain't got time for that shit any more.  Be excellent to one another.  It ain't that difficult, really.

Edited November 25, 2021 by slorch

[Neonmoon 38127]

The more you study history, the easier it is to see all the lies of the Republican Party, and how they still sell the same fears to the same stupid people, and it still works. Yet all the accomplishments were done by Democrats and OPPOSED by Republicans. 

womens rights, civil rights, voting rights, Medicaid, Medicare, Obamacare, gay rights, 

The only thing Republicans have ever accomplished were corporate tax cuts and starting wars. 

[Ag with kids 581]

25 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

This is laughable.  The Republicans have no policies to state.  Unless you want to count "nos."

No immigration reform.  No regulation of firearms of any kind.  No Roe v. Wade.  No transgenders in bathrooms or playing sports.  No infrastructure spending.  No addressing climate change.  No tax hikes.  No addressing of healthcare.  No reform or forgiveness of student debt.  No attempt to address the wealth and income gaps.

Democrats have a range of policy proposals on most of these issues.  They aren't perfect, many of them go too far in terms of cost and government entanglement with private life and business.

But all the Republicans say is "no."  And, frequently, generate lies and distortions -- propaganda -- against these proposals.  There is no honest debate.

Republicans do have lots of vague talking points, though.  Shitloads of them.  SoCIAlisM is about to drown them all out, though.

Just to give you a hint..if your position on all those positions are those of the Democrats, then the Republicans didn't move right, you moved left.

It's cool though...

[hobbes2702 12771]

10 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

 

a) don’t be a coward.

 

Fuck you.  I tried posting on here for just a few weeks and realized this place is basically a burnt orange DemocraticUnderground.  I am glad that the posters here have refrained from neg repping me during this conversation.  It took me a year and a half of posting only on Food & Travel to get positive.

 

ii) the cool thing is, I don’t have to guess. They literally published something that told us exactly what they think. It said, functionally, “whatever Trump wants.” Seriously, that was the stated party platform.

 

[url=https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/2016-republican-party-platform]The 2016 Republican Party platform[/url]

 

So, with the same candidate on the ballot, they didn’t change the platform?  What’s your point?

 

3) you want some? Ok - hollering about immigrants as the cause of literally all of our problems.

 

Drugs? The economy? COVID? Blame immigrants!

 

Well, Republicans DON’T do that, but maybe you’re listening to the wrong echo chamber.

 

But wait, they don’t have a problem with LEGAL immigrants, just illegals. Wait, what’s that, they then shifted the goalposts and are working like hell to cut off legal immigration, too?

 

This is incorrect.

 

Nazis marching in Charlottesville are good people? Supporters literally yelling “heil Trump?”

 

WTF?  So if a psycho asshole says BRISKETEXAN IS MY HERO, then you’re guilty for anything he does?

 

An orchestrated campaign to delegitimize all media that doesn’t blindly support the regime, using the exact “lugenpresse” play the Nazis ran? Come on, man. This is going to get even more embarrassing for you, because I have 100 more of these.

IV) funny thing….Godwin himself said “nope, it’s cool, compare them to Nazis, it fits.”

 

HAHAHA. Yeah… the Republicans/right control the media.  Torbush…

 

Some of us have read a book or two. We know the plays and systems that authoritarians run on their rise to power, including the Nazis. And we’ve watched, with horror, as they’re being run again, right here at home. Even including the brown shirts and a violent attack on the legitimate government. Remember that one? That’s what your party has wrought. And do they own it, and try to make good? No. They double down.

 

I read books too.

 

1984

 

A Day In The Life Of Ivan Denisovitch

 

The Gulag Archepeligo

 

They call terrorists who literally attacked the heart of my government “tourists.” They fight any investigation or accountability.

 

Nah…they’re an “idea”.

 

Because all of the attacks on federal buildings for 2 years where they destroyed and burned property and all the personnel had to evacuate was not a big deal - because the right wasn’t doing it.

 

If you stand with a party that supports those things, or the the better LEAST…those aren’t dealbreakers for you….then I know all I need to know about you.

 

Don’t know what party you stand with but I don’t stand with that stuff…

 

I am a patriotic american. I love my country. And I hate - and I mean hate - those who attack it, and those who support, enable, and excuse them. You may as well be supporting, enabling, and excusing Al Qaeda.

 

I mean, if you want to know which “conservative values” I still hold dear, and why they mean that I hate the Republicans and those who support them. You fucking asked. I’m telling.

 

Hey…support your version of fascism.  I’ll just disagree with you.

 

This entire post is full of falsehoods.

[Brisketexan 104463]

Just to give you a hint..if your position on all those positions are those of the Democrats, then the Republicans didn't move right, you moved left.
It's cool though...

Just to pick one of those, for convenience, you could espouse the exact approach on immigration that GWB espoused today, and the GQP and it’s supporters would slam you as an open borders libtard. The EXACT same policies espoused by a Republican governor and president would today be deemed far left by that same party.

[jimmyjazz 45513]

Still waiting on the "full blown socialist" perspective.  Hmm.

[Brisketexan 104463]

This entire post is full of falsehoods.

So, he IS a real Republican.

[Francisco 2.0 32290]

Ag with kids seems butthurt about something.  Not sure what it is.  Maybe his Thanksgiving isn't going to be pleasant.  Of course, modern day GOP ideology means you have to be pissed off about something every...single...day.  

I mean, he's got an entire forum elsewhere that he can worship GOP policies (chuckles) with the rest of the true believers.  Not sure why he's aggravated that this place has become a "liberal" haven.

 

 

 

 

 

[Neonmoon 38127]

The 2016 Republican platform is a fun read. The winning trade policy paragraph is pure comedy. How did that go? We’re still trying to clean up the excrement from Republican trade wars. Econ 101 teaches trade wars accomplish nothing and are for idiots. 

I also enjoyed this creating jobs position. 

Quote

Competitiveness equals jobs. That equation governs our policies regarding U.S. corporations in the global economy. Private investment is a key driver of economic growth and job creation. After falling dramatically during the recession, private investment has recovered at a disappointing pace due in part to high corporate tax rates and increasing regulatory burdens and uncertainty.

American businesses now face the world’s highest corporate tax rates. That’s like putting lead shoes on your cross-country team. It reduces companies’ ability to compete overseas, encourages them to move abroad, lessens their investment, cripples job creation here at home, lowers American wages, and fosters the avoidance of tax liability — without actually increasing tax revenues. A more damaging policy is hard to imagine. We propose to level the international playing field by lowering the corporate tax rate to be on a par with, or below, the rates of other industrial nations. We endorse the recommendation of the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, as well as the current Administration’s Export Council, to switch to a territorial system of taxation so that profits earned and taxed abroad may be repatriated for job-creating investment here at home. We believe American companies should be headquartered in America. We should reduce barriers to accomplish- ing that goal.

The old Trickle Down economics. Give corporate tax cuts and watch them create jobs. How many times has this pile of shit not worked? 3 in my lifetime?

[hobbes2702 12771]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

So, he IS a real Republican.

I mean he literally said Republicans don’t blame immigrants for Covid. Like what the fuck are we even talking about if you can’t agree on something that’s a 100% fact.

[Satoshi 129]

2 hours ago, Eastwood said:

In the infancy of the old board, I had a couple of posters that I bickered with constantly. Eventually we end up meeting at a tailgate, had beers together, and our internet interactions went from bitter bickering 100% of the time to actual discussions 50% of the time and just shooting the shit in random threads the other 50%. Humanizing a screen name goes a long way.

This is a quaint idea. One I wish would still work. But I feel pretty certain if I met some of these guys and girls in person with them knowing who I was, they would go ballistic. If they didn’t know it was me then we would get along great.
 

It’s the main reason I haven’t done burnt ends. I wanted to do the top level to take my son to meet some players at the team dinner etc but I figured there was a good chance my handle would cause problems with other posters even with kids present. Weirdos. 

[Brothahorn 10085]

The more you study history, the easier it is to see all the lies of the Republican Party, and how they still sell the same fears to the same stupid people, and it still works. Yet all the accomplishments were done by Democrats and OPPOSED by Republicans. 
womens rights, civil rights, voting rights, Medicaid, Medicare, Obamacare, gay rights, 
The only thing Republicans have ever accomplished were corporate tax cuts and starting wars. 

See what I mean. Who has time to argue with this type of ignorance? Hell, Neon doesn't even believe half of it. But, it looks good on Surly-Underground so why not post it?

[hobbes2702 12771]

3 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

This is a quaint idea. One I wish would still work. But I feel pretty certain if I met some of these guys and girls in person with them knowing who I was, they would go ballistic. If they didn’t know it was me then we would get along great.
 

It’s the main reason I haven’t done burnt ends. I wanted to do the top level to take my son to meet some players at the team dinner etc but I figured there was a good chance my handle would cause problems with other posters even with kids present. Weirdos. 

[hobbes2702 12771]

1 minute ago, Brothahorn said:

 

 

See what I mean. Who has time to argue with this type of ignorance? Hell, Neon doesn't even believe half of it. But, it looks good on Surly-Underground so why not post it?

 

What’s the lie in what he said? Which part is ignorant? Support your position 

Edited November 25, 2021 by hobbes2702

[Texaspython 231]

3 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

 

 

See what I mean. Who has time to argue with this type of ignorance? Hell, Neon doesn't even believe half of it. But, it looks good on Surly-Underground so why not post it?

 

So, where is the lie?

[Neonmoon 38127]

Okay now this is some good shit. 
 

Quote

Responsible Homeownership and Rental Opportunities

Homeownership expands personal liberty, builds communities, and helps Americans create wealth. “The American Dream” is not a stale slogan. It is the lived reality that expresses the aspirations of all our people. It means a decent place to live, a safe place to raise kids, a welcoming place to retire. It bespeaks the quiet pride of those who work hard to shelter their family and, in the process, create caring neighborhoods.
The Great Recession devastated the housing market. U.S. taxpayers paid billions to rescue Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, the latter managed and controlled by senior officials from the Carter and Clinton Administrations, and to cover the losses of the poorly-managed Federal Housing Administration. Millions lost their homes, millions more lost value in their homes.

More than six million households had to move from homeownership to renting. Rental costs escalated so that today nearly 12 million families spend more than 50 percent of their incomes just on rent. The national homeownership rate has sharply fallen and the rate for minority households and young adults has plummeted. So many remain unemployed or underemployed, and for the lucky ones with jobs, rising rents make it harder to save for a mortgage.

There is a growing sense that our national standard of living will never be as high as it was in the past. We understand that pessimism but do not share it, for we believe that sound public policies can restore growth to our economy, vigor to the housing market, and hope to those who are now on the margins of prosperity.

Our goal is to advance responsible homeownership while guarding against the abuses that led to the housing collapse. We must scale back the federal role in the housing market, promote responsibility on the part of borrowers and lenders, and avoid future taxpayer bailouts. Reforms should provide clear and prudent underwriting standards and guidelines on predatory lending and acceptable lending practices. Compliance with regulatory stan- dards should constitute a legal safe harbor to guard against opportunistic litigation by trial lawyers.

We call for a comprehensive review of federal regulations, especially those dealing with the environment, that make it harder and more costly for Americans to rent, buy, or sell homes. For nine years, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have been in conservatorship and the current Administration and Democrats have prevented any effort to reform them. Their corrupt business model lets shareholders and executives reap huge profits while the taxpayers cover all loses. The utility of both agencies should be reconsidered as a Republican administration clears away the jumble of subsidies and controls that complicate and distort home-buying.

The Federal Housing Administration, which provides taxpayer-backed guarantees in the mortgage market, should no longer support high- income individuals, and the public should not be financially exposed by risks taken by FHA officials. We will end the government mandates that required Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and federally-insured banks to satisfy lending quotas to specific groups. Discrimination should have no place in the mortgage industry.

Zoning decisions have always been, and must remain, under local control. The current Administration is trying to seize control of the zoning process through its Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing regulation. It threatens to undermine zoning laws in order to socially engineer every community in the country. While the federal government has a legitimate role in enforcing non-discrimination laws, this regulation has nothing to do with proven or alleged discrimination and everything to do with hostility to the self-government of citizens.

The Republican platform on Homeownership, in the same fucking snippet, states two amazing things.

It states the tragedy of low minority home ownership and then later says it wants to end lending quotas. Ha. Amazing 

It states it is against the abuses of bad lending and then says it wants to scale back the federal role, aka the regulations that were passed to keep the lending abuses in check. 
 

chefs kiss

 

[Ag with kids 581]

12 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I mean he literally said Republicans don’t blame immigrants for Covid. Like what the fuck are we even talking about if you can’t agree on something that’s a 100% fact.

COVID immigrated here legally I guess...

And there's zero COVID coming across the southern border.

[Ag with kids 581]

9 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

 

 

See what I mean. Who has time to argue with this type of ignorance? Hell, Neon doesn't even believe half of it. But, it looks good on Surly-Underground so why not post it?

 

This is why I rarely try to post here...

 

But, I was drinking and went against my better judgement and engaged....

[staboner 4955]

the only thing to do is blow it up, rename things, get more options and start again. this is far too damaged to recover. this page is brutal. 

[hobbes2702 12771]

1 minute ago, Ag with kids said:

COVID immigrated here legally I guess...

And there's zero COVID coming across the southern border.

That wasn’t your claim. Your claim was that republicans weren’t blaming immigrants for the spread of covid. And then in your rebuttal to what I said, you blamed immigrants for the spread of covid. So not only do you not know what your party supports, you appear to lie to cover it.

[hobbes2702 12771]

2 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

This is why I rarely try to post here...

 

But, I was drinking and went against my better judgement and engaged....

Tell me the lie in what Neon said. You come in here and complain about not being taken seriously but you cannot articulate a single salient point. You don’t seem to know what your party supports and want us to tell you. Then when people tell do you make an excuse and move on to something else. You clearly are a Republican because you can’t backup any of your claims with evidence 

Edited November 25, 2021 by hobbes2702

[Ag with kids 581]

3 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Okay now this is some good shit. 
 

The Republican platform on Homeownership, in the same fucking snippet, states two amazing things.

It states the tragedy of low minority home ownership and then later says it wants to end lending quotas. Ha. Amazing 

It states it is against the abuses of bad lending and then says it wants to scale back the federal role, aka the regulations that were passed to keep the lending abuses in check. 
 

chefs kiss

 

You mean giving large amounts of money to people that won't be able to pay it is...what?  A bad idea?  A racist idea (because we all know "white" = "racist")

[Brothahorn 10085]

What’s the lie in what he said? Which part is ignorant? Support your position 

So, where is the lie?

Both of you, take some time and go look at who supported the Civil Rights Act. It doesn't pass without Republican support, because all the Democrat racists were against it.

You supposedly learned folks sure do love to ignore history.

And miss me with the weak ass, they changed parties later nonsense. They were who they were.

[Satoshi 129]

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

Dude. The Republican party has no platform whatsoever. Are you living under a rock? It’s just a cult of personality worshiping trump. Its the nazi party minus any real give a shit about country, whether fake or not. They just want to burn it down. 

 

School choice, protecting second amendment rights, border security, deregulation, lower taxes, religious freedom, freedom of speech, defending the rights of the unborn, originalist legislative interpretation. Just off the top of my head. These things were all important before Trump and they’re important now. He just co-opted them. You’re wrong and loud about it, but that’s nothing new. 

[Neonmoon 38127]

8 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

 

 

See what I mean. Who has time to argue with this type of ignorance? Hell, Neon doesn't even believe half of it. But, it looks good on Surly-Underground so why not post it?

 

First, which part is ignorant. Second, please elaborate on which half I don’t believe. 
 

(Olive branch, I’m well aware of Republican accomplishments like the Disability Act by GHWB, or the semi accomplishment of GWB passing the Medicare Improvement Act which gave coverage to prescription drugs, but I could spend a year arguing why that was a step backwards but thats another topic) 

[Ag with kids 581]

2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

That wasn’t your claim. Your claim was that republicans weren’t blaming immigrants for the spread of covid. And then in your rebuttal to what I said, you blamed immigrants for the spread of covid. So not only do you not know what your party supports, you appear to lie to cover it.

No...that claim was from Brisketexan....saying that's what Republicans espouse.  He put a bunch of claims into his diatribe.  Sorry I didn't answer every single one.

But then you haven't answered squat....

[Neonmoon 38127]

Just now, Brothahorn said:

Both of you, take some time and go look at who supported the Civil Rights Act. It doesn't pass without Republican support, because all the Democrat racists were against it.

You supposedly learned folks sure do love to ignore history.

And miss me with the weak ass, they changed parties later nonsense. They were who they were.

So as long as we ignore the part about the racist Democrats leaving the Democrat party to go to the Republican Party because they were pissed Johnson passed the civil rights act? We’re all good then?

 

 

 

[Neonmoon 38127]

4 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

You mean giving large amounts of money to people that won't be able to pay it is...what?  A bad idea?  A racist idea (because we all know "white" = "racist")

You assume minority groups can’t pay their mortgages? Why? 

[Brothahorn 10085]

This is why I rarely try to post here...
 
But, I was drinking and went against my better judgement and engaged....

Hey, it's Thanksgiving. It's argue with the internet family or the real ones.

[Bullneck 18976]

42 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

 

a) don’t be a coward.

 

Fuck you.  I tried posting on here for just a few weeks and realized this place is basically a burnt orange DemocraticUnderground.  I am glad that the posters here have refrained from neg repping me during this conversation.  It took me a year and a half of posting only on Food & Travel to get positive.

 

ii) the cool thing is, I don’t have to guess. They literally published something that told us exactly what they think. It said, functionally, “whatever Trump wants.” Seriously, that was the stated party platform.

 

[url=https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/2016-republican-party-platform]The 2016 Republican Party platform[/url]

 

So, with the same candidate on the ballot, they didn’t change the platform?  What’s your point?

 

3) you want some? Ok - hollering about immigrants as the cause of literally all of our problems.

 

Drugs? The economy? COVID? Blame immigrants!

 

Well, Republicans DON’T do that, but maybe you’re listening to the wrong echo chamber.

 

But wait, they don’t have a problem with LEGAL immigrants, just illegals. Wait, what’s that, they then shifted the goalposts and are working like hell to cut off legal immigration, too?

 

This is incorrect.

 

Nazis marching in Charlottesville are good people? Supporters literally yelling “heil Trump?”

 

WTF?  So if a psycho asshole says BRISKETEXAN IS MY HERO, then you’re guilty for anything he does?

 

An orchestrated campaign to delegitimize all media that doesn’t blindly support the regime, using the exact “lugenpresse” play the Nazis ran? Come on, man. This is going to get even more embarrassing for you, because I have 100 more of these.

IV) funny thing….Godwin himself said “nope, it’s cool, compare them to Nazis, it fits.”

 

HAHAHA. Yeah… the Republicans/right control the media.  Torbush…

 

Some of us have read a book or two. We know the plays and systems that authoritarians run on their rise to power, including the Nazis. And we’ve watched, with horror, as they’re being run again, right here at home. Even including the brown shirts and a violent attack on the legitimate government. Remember that one? That’s what your party has wrought. And do they own it, and try to make good? No. They double down.

 

I read books too.

 

1984

 

A Day In The Life Of Ivan Denisovitch

 

The Gulag Archepeligo

 

They call terrorists who literally attacked the heart of my government “tourists.” They fight any investigation or accountability.

 

Nah…they’re an “idea”.

 

Because all of the attacks on federal buildings for 2 years where they destroyed and burned property and all the personnel had to evacuate was not a big deal - because the right wasn’t doing it.

 

If you stand with a party that supports those things, or the the better LEAST…those aren’t dealbreakers for you….then I know all I need to know about you.

 

Don’t know what party you stand with but I don’t stand with that stuff…

 

I am a patriotic american. I love my country. And I hate - and I mean hate - those who attack it, and those who support, enable, and excuse them. You may as well be supporting, enabling, and excusing Al Qaeda.

 

I mean, if you want to know which “conservative values” I still hold dear, and why they mean that I hate the Republicans and those who support them. You fucking asked. I’m telling.

 

Hey…support your version of fascism.  I’ll just disagree with you.

 

Seriously, remove the extra lines from your post. It looks like you never learned to write properly.  

Oh, and nice "Own the libs" avatar.  

[hobbes2702 12771]

8 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

No...that claim was from Brisketexan....saying that's what Republicans espouse.  He put a bunch of claims into his diatribe.  Sorry I didn't answer every single one.

But then you haven't answered squat....

You said republicans don’t do WhT he said, which is blame immigrants for covid among other things. That’s not true. Republicans absolutely do that regularly. Then you did it. 
 

Here’s the quote in case you forgot what you said?

3) you want some? Ok - hollering about immigrants as the cause of literally all of our problems.

 

Drugs? The economy? COVID? Blame immigrants!

 

Well, Republicans DON’T do that, but maybe you’re listening to the wrong echo chamber.

 

 

Oh I’m sorry, I listed multiple things and even gave you an example of one, that brisket expanded on. But you ignored it.

Edited November 25, 2021 by hobbes2702

[Ag with kids 581]

1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

You assume minority groups can’t pay their mortgages? Why? 

I didn't say that nor imply it.

Why did you assume that minorities are the ones that won't be able to pay their mortgages?  Racist much?

[Shaddie 1634]

Jesus Agat with kids. I thought you were reasonable. 
 

Guess not. Show evidence that illegals are spreading COVID.  EVIDENCE. Do you have it? Of course you don’t.  

[hobbes2702 12771]

8 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

Both of you, take some time and go look at who supported the Civil Rights Act. It doesn't pass without Republican support, because all the Democrat racists were against it.

You supposedly learned folks sure do love to ignore history.

And miss me with the weak ass, they changed parties later nonsense. They were who they were.

Sure that’s fine. Who was it that pushed it through the civil rights act?

[Neonmoon 38127]

Here some fake news from the history channel 

https://www.history.com/news/how-the-party-of-lincoln-won-over-the-once-democratic-south

Quote

How the ‘Party of Lincoln’ Won Over the Once Democratic South

Democratic defectors, known as the “Dixiecrats,” started a switch to the Republican party in a movement that was later fueled by a so-called "Southern strategy."

BECKY LITTLE

•  
•  
•  
•  

The night that Democratic President Lyndon B. Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, his special assistant Bill Moyers was surprised to find the president looking melancholy in his bedroom. Moyers later wrote that when he asked what was wrong, Johnson replied, “I think we just delivered the South to the Republican party for a long time to come.”

It may seem a crude remark to make after such a momentous occasion, but it was also an accurate prediction.

To understand some of the reasons the South went from a largely Democratic region to a primarily Republican area today, just follow the decades of debate over racial issues in the United States.

 

On April 11, 1968 President Lyndon Johnson signs the Civil Rights bill while seated at a table surrounded by members of Congress, Washington DC. (Credit: Warren Leffler/Underwood Archives/Getty Images)

The Republican party was originally founded in the mid-1800s to oppose immigration and the spread of slavery, says David Goldfield, whose new book on American politics, The Gifted Generation: When Government Was Good, comes out in November.

“The Republican party was strictly a sectional party, meaning that it just did not exist in the South,” he says. “The South couldn’t care less about immigration.” But it did care about preserving slavery.

After the Civil War, the Democratic party’s opposition to Republican Reconstruction legislation solidified its hold on the South.

“The Democratic party came to be more than a political party in the South—it came to be a defender of a way of life,” Goldfield says. “And that way of life was the restoration as much as possible of white supremacy … The Confederate statues you see all around were primarily erected by Democrats.”

The Dixie Democrats seceding from the Democratic Party. The rump convention, called after the Democrats had attached President Truman’s civil rights program to the party platform, placed Governor Strom Thurmond of South Carolina and Governor Fielding L. Wright of Mississippi in nomination. (Credit: Bettmann/Getty Images)

Up until the post-World War II period, the party’s hold on the region was so entrenched that Southern politicians usually couldn’t get elected unless they were Democrats. But when President Harry S. Truman, a Democratic Southerner, introduced a pro-civil rights platform at the party’s 1948 convention, a faction walked out.

These defectors, known as the “Dixiecrats,” held a separate convention in Birmingham, Alabama. There, they nominated South Carolina Governor Strom Thurmond, a staunch opposer of civil rights, to run for president on their “States’ Rights” ticket. Although Thurmond lost the election to Truman, he still won over a million popular votes.

It “was the first time since before the Civil War that the South was not solidly Democratic,” Goldfield says. “And that began the erosion of the southern influence in the Democratic party.”

After that, the majority of the South still continued to vote Democratic because it thought of the Republican party as the party of Abraham Lincoln and Reconstruction. The big break didn’t come until President Johnson, another Southern Democrat, signed the Civil Rights Act in 1964 and the Voting Rights Act in 1965.

 

Govenor Strom Thurmond of South Carolina, was nominated as States’ Right candidate at the rump convention held in Birmingham on by southern recalcitrants. The Southerners took this drastic action after the Democratic convention added President Truman’s civil rights program of its party platform. (Credit: Bettmann/Getty Images)

Though some Democrats had switched to the Republican party prior to this, “the defections became a flood” after Johnson signed these acts, Goldfield says. “And so the political parties began to reconstitute themselves.”

The change wasn’t total or immediate. During the late 1960s and early ‘70s, white Southerners were still transitioning away from the Democratic party (newly enfranchised black Southerners voted and continue to vote Democratic). And even as Republican Richard Nixon employed a “Southern strategy” that appealed to the racism of Southern white voters, former Alabama Governor George Wallace (who’d wanted “segregation now, segregation tomorrow, and segregation forever”) ran as a Democrat in the 1972 presidential primaries.

By the time Ronald Reagan became president in 1980, the Republican party’s hold on white Southerners was firm. Today, the Republican party remains the party of the South. It’s an ironic outcome considering that a century ago, white Southerners would’ve never considered voting for the party of Lincoln.

 

[Ag with kids 581]

3 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

Seriously, remove the extra lines from your post. It looks like you never learned to write properly.  

Oh, and nice "Own the libs" avatar.  

The avatar is funny.  Has nothing to do with owning the libs.  Look closer.

If you can't see the humor in it, I can't help you.

[Satoshi 129]

2 minutes ago, Shaddie said:

Jesus Agat with kids. I thought you were reasonable. 
 

Guess not. Show evidence that illegals are spreading COVID.  EVIDENCE. Do you have it? Of course you don’t.  

They’re universally unvaxxed so they spread it more than anyone. 

[Neonmoon 38127]

18 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

 

It states the tragedy of low minority home ownership and then later says it wants to end lending quotas. Ha. Amazing 

It states it is against the abuses of bad lending and then says it wants to scale back the federal role, aka the regulations that were passed to keep the lending abuses in check. 
 

chefs kiss

 

 

12 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

You mean giving large amounts of money to people that won't be able to pay it is...what?  A bad idea?  A racist idea (because we all know "white" = "racist")

 

6 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

You assume minority groups can’t pay their mortgages? Why? 

 

2 minutes ago, Ag with kids said:

I didn't say that nor imply it.

Why did you assume that minorities are the ones that won't be able to pay their mortgages?  Racist much?

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension 

[jimmyjazz 45513]

6 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

So as long as we ignore the part about the racist Democrats leaving the Democrat party to go to the Republican Party because they were pissed Johnson passed the civil rights act? We’re all good then?

Breaking it down along party lines is simple wordsmithing.  Yeah, we get it, Lincoln was a Republican.  That doesn't mean modern Republicans would have been against slavery.

A better breakdown is progressive/moderate/conservative, defined in modern terms, and in that world, conservatives tend to be fearful racists who brandish the cross as a weapon and who have strong authoritarian tendencies.  THOSE are facts.  

[Brothahorn 10085]

So as long as we ignore the part about the racist Democrats leaving the Democrat party to go to the Republican Party because they were pissed Johnson passed the civil rights act? We’re all good then?
 
 
 

And we should ignore that these racists were proud Democrats before they switched. So obviously, the Democrats had no problem with their brand of racsim.

[Shaddie 1634]

1 minute ago, Satoshi said:

They’re universally unvaxxed so they spread it more than anyone. 

Prove it. 

[Brisketexan 104463]

No...that claim was from Brisketexan....saying that's what Republicans espouse.  He put a bunch of claims into his diatribe.  Sorry I didn't answer every single one.
But then you haven't answered squat....

You said republicans don’t do WhT he said, which is blame immigrants for covid among other things. That’s not true. Republicans absolutely do that regularly. Then you did it. 
 
Here’s the quote in case you forgot what you said?

3) you want some? Ok - hollering about immigrants as the cause of literally all of our problems.

 

Drugs? The economy? COVID? Blame immigrants!

 

Well, Republicans DON’T do that, but maybe you’re listening to the wrong echo chamber.

 

 

Oh I’m sorry, I listed multiple things and even gave you an example of one, that brisket expanded on. But you ignored it.

I mean….it’s actually fucking funny. Like he’s a clown. He amuses me.

I said the Republicans blame the spread of Covid on immigrants.

He said “no they don’t.”

Then he promptly blamed the spread of Covid on immigrants.

Jesus. It’s like playing against Texas. I could be an intellectual Kansas and still win.

[Neonmoon 38127]

Just now, Brothahorn said:

11 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

So as long as we ignore the part about the racist Democrats leaving the Democrat party to go to the Republican Party because they were pissed Johnson passed the civil rights act? We’re all good then?
 
 
 

And we should ignore that these racists were proud Democrats before they switched. So obviously, the Democrats had no problem with their brand of racsim.

Are you actually celebrating that the racists that used to be Democrats, and now are Republicans as a win?