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Identifying Trump rioters


Tuco

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I don’t think the comparisons to Germany are apt. Germany had just disastrously lost a war that resulted in their neighbors wrecking their economy after the war, with millions of Germans wondering where their next meal is coming from, compounded by stumbling into a global economic depression  Germany alone had an increase of over 225% unemployment, and a drop of over 40% in industrial production.
MAGA are not lining up at soup kitchens and wondering if they’ll be able to feed their families, and even in the cheapest of MAGA double-wides or barndominiums, they have big-screen TVs and smartphones and internet, and they are able to vent 24/7 on easily-accessed social media platforms.
Sure, Trump and Republican leaders may manipulate them and  try and make MAGA feel like the world is ending, but subconsciously MAGA knows they ain’t hurting for food, they can still fill up their dually, they have a 24/7 stream of Fox News or other right-wing propaganda filling their homes (and keeping them tied to their TVs or phones or computers). They can go on the internet and have their say and feel like they are being heard when the likes and clicks start rolling in.
 A typical German in the 1920s-30s didn’t have that luxury - if they wanted to be heard, they had to be in the streets and mixing it up in riots or marches or demonstrations, and many had literally nothing to lose in terms of housing, jobs, etc, unlike MAGA.  Many spent hours of each day just trying to keep a little food in their stomach.  Meanwhile, MAGA texts each other about meeting up at the Golden Corral to stuff their faces with more food in an hour or two than many 1920s Germans got in a few days, and talk about how horrible the economy is, all the while checking Facebook on their iPhones to grumble about the gays or Mexicans or whatever.
TLDR: 1930s Germans had nothing to lose and everything to gain if they rioted in the streets and the world had literally been against them. MAGA is fat, lazy, and extremely complacent, and  those who wouldn’t riot in January of 2021 when Trump was still in the White House and was begging them to start shit won’t now, especially with the convictions.  It’s too easy to bitch on social media and get the dopamine hit,

Counterpoint: “lizard brained stupidity” trumps all that shit. BELIEVING that you are oppressed because minorities exist is the same as actually BEING oppressed, mentally.
These are absolute idiots…remember, half of every country is below the median intelligence.
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three other differences to be thankful for:

1.  Hitler was far more intelligent and cunning than Trump.

2.  The average German and average Floridian have a far greater delta in intelligence than anyone wants to talk about.

3.  Hitler came to power in his 40's and was in good health, though cyanide didn't agree with his system.  Late 70's Trump could be encouraged to enjoy ketchup-drench versions of it though, maybe.  

Both are pure evil.  However, one had a 1000 year plan that he almost pulled off.  The other one whines at 2am on a social media account he drove into bankruptcy.  

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20 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Counterpoint: “lizard brained stupidity” trumps all that shit. BELIEVING that you are oppressed because minorities exist is the same as actually BEING oppressed, mentally.
These are absolute idiots…remember, half of every country is below the median intelligence.

70 million didn’t show up in January of. 2021.  He couldn’t even get 7,000 to show up and riot then, even though he was still in office.

The vast majority are extremely complacent.

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2 hours ago, WelfareBuysMyWeed said:

It's cute watching white people slowly figure out cult of personality

didn't you guys ever listen to Living Color?

White people?

I kid.  I saw them on the first Lollapalooza tour.  Their bassist Doug Wimbish walked by our spot on the green after their set and happily drank our beers for an hour or so.  Super nice guy, very talented band.  Much less white than me and my friends.  Like, eclipse.

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3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:


Shorter version: “Duh.”

What we’re seeing is not unique or complicated. Same shit, different nationalist despot.

Have we ever seen the programming  of Americans on this scale by one man ever before in our history? Even the number of people who are made uncomfortable by felon Trump’s manifold wickedness, they say and do nothing. I suspect that was very much the case in 30’s Germany as well. People with Ivy League pedigrees died in fidelity to a crazy man in Waco. The scale and scope of mental illness in this country is being reflected in our politics and it’s more than worrisome.

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They're not all mentally ill.  People did vote Republican before Donald Trump.  And they'd vote for Davie Koresh, Jr. tomorrow if he ran for President.  He hijacked the party, but it was a party that already had 25mm+ straight ticket voters.  The 25mm+ loyalists he brought out of the woodwork, in cult-like fashion...they aren't quite mentally ill.  They're addicts.  they are on a high of being relevant and validated, despite being stupid.  That is what cults offer.  They feel redeemed and seen and acknowledged after decades of perceived dismissal.  No evidence, or jury findings, or fact-based evidence is going to course-correct a drug that potent.  It's like trying to tell a heroin addict, "Hey, here's an article in the New England Journal of Medicine discussing the harms of continuing to do heroin no matter how good it feels."  Nobody reads that and goes, "Oh, I guess I should quit because it sounds like a bad idea."  

The dilemma nobody has solved for is the middle 25mm voters.  They are not necessarily all-GOP, all the time voters.  They are somewhat politically engaged.  Many donate, but don't put out Trump flags.  They even vote for candidates of other parties in other down-ballot races.  they are mostly suburban/exurban, largely non-college educated but not mentally ill or addicted to MAGA.  They came to some sort of compromise in their minds on why to vote for Trump, twice.  And nobody has figured it out.  But they are the ones you push too hard and they vote for him again to spite that relative or friend that gives them shit about their MAGA loyalty.  You don't push them enough, they quietly sneak out and go vote for him again.  There's a balance there that I've yet to hear an explanation for.  

Yes, many on J6 were mentally unhinged and serving time in federal prison, and rightfully so.  But there are so many more that are merely hooked on an addictive kick that has yet to be unpacked.  A cult worship syndrome is probably the closest thing.  But it's hard to say, we've never really had anything else like this in America save for maybe George Washington or Huey Long.  You can Tea Party, Obama whiplash, social media, Russian meddling, etc.  And there are certainly mentally ill voters of his.  But there just has not been an explanation for how this happened.  And why it may happen again.  

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38 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Have we ever seen the programming  of Americans on this scale by one man ever before in our history? Even the number of people who are made uncomfortable by felon Trump’s manifold wickedness, they say and do nothing. I suspect that was very much the case in 30’s Germany as well. People with Ivy League pedigrees died in fidelity to a crazy man in Waco. The scale and scope of mental illness in this country is being reflected in our politics and it’s more than worrisome.

There's a lot of dumbasses that believe the shit they see on TV or the internet without doing any research.  They may even know it's off, but they want to believe it, so they don't do any research that could invalidate what it is that they want to believe. These are the people that used to get taken in by email scams (and still do) or that used to buy stupid shit that they saw on TV.

22 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

But it's hard to say, we've never really had anything else like this in America save for maybe George Washington or Huey Long.  You can Tea Party, Obama whiplash, social media, Russian meddling, etc.  And there are certainly mentally ill voters of his.  But there just has not been an explanation for how this happened.  And why it may happen again.  

If you take out the mentally (and there are a shitload of mentally ill in this country), just remember that it's easy to fool somebody, harder to convince them that they've been fooled, especially when they may feel ashamed for being fooled in the first place, and don't want to lose face over it.

And you are right about the balance between confronting and not confronting MAGA relatives, and having them vote out of spite, or having them vote because there was no pushback.

In the spirit of the thread, and tying into that balance, it's fun to point out facts like how Trump paid $130,000 to a porn star and $150,000 to a Playboy model, but he couldn't be bothered to cut a check for even a $1,000 for any of the January 6 MAGA rioters that have given up jobs, families, businesses, and even given up time (spent in prison) for him.  If you play with his dick, he'll get you a big-ass check.  If you destroy your life for him, at times he'll claim you were ANTIFA masquerading as MAGA.

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A cult worship syndrome is probably the closest thing.  But it's hard to say, we've never really had anything else like this in America save for maybe George Washington or Huey Long.   
I have to tell you, in high school my buddy Pat (who had moved from Alabama to Florida) told me I had to go to Sebastian, Florida and see “The Governor”, meaning George Wallace. 
He absolutely tapped into the soul of the same group. Instead of brown hordes invading the country like World War Z, Wallace pounded the evil of busing Negroes to your school.   He had a great shot at being the Democratic nominee had he not been shot and paralyzed.  But on the day I saw him he had those Florida crackers in an electric mood, talking about pointy-headed intellectuals who think they’re smarter than the common folk. Rebel flags were everywhere.  
The kind of people who respond to that kind of frightening populism have always been with us and always will be.   
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Good points, all.  We are biologically wired for those two things.  We cannot admit when we've been fooled.  Nobody wants to admit it, but it happens to every single one of us.  Whether it's politics, or a confidence scheme, or just clever marketing.  We have all fallen prey far more times than we can ever admit.  And we all need to believe in something bigger than ourselves.  A leader, a god, a galaxy, or a philosophical doctrine.  It's just in our bones.  

Where the fork in the road comes is you don't give money to somebody to compels you to attack cops at our seat of government.  That's the line.  That's when you start executing people.  And it is 100% a recipe that's going to repeat itself this January.  

Gatorubet-to your point about George Wallace.  As I am frequently called out on this message board for being a "Yankee", I admittedly don't know much to this day about "Southern Mannerisms", but they did teach me about politics.  Wallace had a compelling message and knew who his target voter bloc was.  And maybe his bullshit was kind of an early version of "He hates different like we hate different."  But that guy had the charisma and allure and presence of a rectal thermometer.  Trump is an altogether different enigma.  Every confidence man, everycult leader, every Mob capo I've ever met has a singular trait in common.  They are faking it, but the good ones---they can tell when you're on to them so they either change up the schtick or they double-down on it, they don't just keep going through the same motions.  It is in that respect that Trump stands apart.  He changed up nearly everything from 2015-2021 in terms of his con.  And has then doubled-down on his schtick from 2021-to-present, berating the same points.  That is the signal of a truly great grifter.  74 million marks.  Well, at least 50mm willing ones anyway that bothered to look at the ballot.  You could drop that man in any time period or place in history and he would have pulled this off.  All that's left for him to do is say "I'm bigger than Jesus."  And he will.  

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Posted (edited)

When I was an undergraduate, I was friends with the student legal counsel. He told me a most interesting story that occurred while he was in law school at Ole Miss. It was doing the time that integration was roiling most of the South, that he decided to walk over and observe a campus protest against integration. As a self described liberal, he wanted to see for himself why these segregationists could be so hateful. As the crowd grew, so did the anger, which he called palpable. Then, suddenly, he said he went into some  kind of a trance and found himself red faced, yelling obscenities and racial slurs with the crowd that surrounded him. He called it an out of body experience that he didn’t understand. He left the event confused and ashamed.

I think about his experience sometimes when trying to make sense of how we can so easily lose our sense of self.

Edited by Satchel
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6 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Gatorubet-to your point about George Wallace.  As I am frequently called out on this message board for being a "Yankee", I admittedly don't know much to this day about "Southern Mannerisms", but they did teach me about politics.  Wallace had a compelling message and knew who his target voter bloc was.  And maybe his bullshit was kind of an early version of "He hates different like we hate different."  But that guy had the charisma and allure and presence of a rectal thermometer. 

I hear you.  And yet he had the brains to be photographed at the Daytona 500 with Richard Petty when no other presidential candidate thought about how to garner the redneck vote.  

I can only respectfully say that on that day in Florida he had buckets of charisma.   I recall he won the Michigan and Maryland Democratic primaries the day after he was shot.   And as far as changing his schtick, he went from segregation then, segregation now, segregation forever - to being reelected governor numerous times and appointing African-Americans to positions in his administration.   

He was moderate in his first ever losing electoral bid, losing to a rabid segregationist. It was said he famously swore that he would never get “out n*ggered again..” in a race. 

Wallace knew how to say it loudly, but like Trump he also knew when to say it in different ways.   this country has been lucky and avoiding those types most of the time, and we can only hope our luck holds. 

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9 minutes ago, Satchel said:

When I was an undergraduate, I was friends with the student legal counsel. He told me a most interesting story that occurred while he was in law school at Ole Miss. It was doing the time that integration was roiling most of the South, that he decided to walk over and observe a campus protest against integration. As a self described liberal, he wanted to see for himself why these segregationists could be so hateful. As the crowd grew, so did the anger, which he called palpable. Then, suddenly, he said he went into some  kind of a trance and found himself red faced, yelling obscenities and racial slurs with the crowd that surrounded him. He called it an out of body experience that he didn’t understand. He left the event confused and ashamed.

I think about his experience sometimes when trying to make sense of how we can so easily lose our sense of self.

Well this is fairly fucked up. 

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Wow, that's a crazy story.  But it reminds me of two thoughts I've held, and well science has as well, for a long while.  

1.  Our vulnerability to "mob mentality."  It's obviously left over from some biological trait where we want to assimilate and fit in and get swept up in some crazy shit at times.

2.  This one, I've read some books on...but I've really ever discerned a compelling argument for it.  Can I be transported to a time and place and despite everything I know and hold dear...would I buy slaves, would I attack a gay person, would I help put Jews on trains, would I sexually harass women at work?  To your point, yeah-it's crowd driven.  But you have to wonder if your moral fiber could transgress that mentality.  Would you be the voice of reason and peace?  Would you just say "fuck it", and start hitting people?  There's really no way to know in some respects.  You have a core value set, but it's because it's now.  Not then.  Maybe it all changed when we started being able to move around the world easier with technology (domesticated horses, sailing ships, trains, etc.) that some people learned that there were just other kinds of people and some chose to demonize them and others chose to embrace them.  10,000 years ago, other than some macho intra-tribe wrestling...I bet there wasn't really much hatred of others.  Your band was your band and so long as the next clan over didn't steal your food or your kids, all was pretty much normal.  But we started the ability to travel and learn about new people and lifestyles.  Later on came organized religion.  And people either got wired to hate or got wired to learn.  We've been fighting over resources for thousands and thousands of years.  It doesn't justify our behavior, but they had to do what they had to do to survive.  It wasn't personal.  But I think once travel started (commerce, or religious spreading, or otherwise) and people found out about differently colored people, or gay people, or folks of a different faith---that's the bifurcation moment.  That's when some got enlightened and some got mean.  And we are nowhere near the end of that phase.  /rant 

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59 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

We cannot admit when we've been fooled.  Nobody wants to admit it, but it happens to every single one of us.  Whether it's politics, or a confidence scheme, or just clever marketing.  We have all fallen prey far more times than we can ever admit. 

Football coaches.

Jim Carrey Reaction GIF

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White people?
I kid.  I saw them on the first Lollapalooza tour.  Their bassist Doug Wimbish walked by our spot on the green after their set and happily drank our beers for an hour or so.  Super nice guy, very talented band.  Much less white than me and my friends.  Like, eclipse.

Little known fact, but the lead singer played “Francis”, the guy who shared a foxhole with Charlie Sheen, in the last big battle scene of Platoon.
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2 hours ago, Satchel said:

When I was an undergraduate, I was friends with the student legal counsel. He told me a most interesting story that occurred while he was in law school at Ole Miss. It was doing the time that integration was roiling most of the South, that he decided to walk over and observe a campus protest against integration. As a self described liberal, he wanted to see for himself why these segregationists could be so hateful. As the crowd grew, so did the anger, which he called palpable. Then, suddenly, he said he went into some  kind of a trance and found himself red faced, yelling obscenities and racial slurs with the crowd that surrounded him. He called it an out of body experience that he didn’t understand. He left the event confused and ashamed.

I think about his experience sometimes when trying to make sense of how we can so easily lose our sense of self.

The horrible thing about the Two Minutes Hate was not that one was obliged to act a part, but, on the contrary, that it was impossible to avoid joining in. Within thirty seconds any pretence was always unnecessary. A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge-hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one’s will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic.

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11 hours ago, Satchel said:

Have we ever seen the programming  of Americans on this scale by one man ever before in our history? Even the number of people who are made uncomfortable by felon Trump’s manifold wickedness, they say and do nothing. I suspect that was very much the case in 30’s Germany as well. People with Ivy League pedigrees died in fidelity to a crazy man in Waco. The scale and scope of mental illness in this country is being reflected in our politics and it’s more than worrisome.

Father Coughlin in the 30’s?

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11 hours ago, Homesickhorn said:


Little known fact, but the lead singer played “Francis”, the guy who shared a foxhole with Charlie Sheen, in the last big battle scene of Platoon.

did he jump into the foxhole and say, "You just made the list, pal.  Alls I know is I finally get to shoot somebody..."  

(wait, wrong 80's war movie?) 

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12 hours ago, Satchel said:

When I was an undergraduate, I was friends with the student legal counsel. He told me a most interesting story that occurred while he was in law school at Ole Miss. It was doing the time that integration was roiling most of the South, that he decided to walk over and observe a campus protest against integration. As a self described liberal, he wanted to see for himself why these segregationists could be so hateful. As the crowd grew, so did the anger, which he called palpable. Then, suddenly, he said he went into some  kind of a trance and found himself red faced, yelling obscenities and racial slurs with the crowd that surrounded him. He called it an out of body experience that he didn’t understand. He left the event confused and ashamed.

I think about his experience sometimes when trying to make sense of how we can so easily lose our sense of self.

 

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On 6/1/2024 at 10:56 PM, Biff Tannen said:

Well this is fairly fucked up. 

And it's also deeply embedded in our nature.

I've related the story before about walking through the W. Mall in 1988.  I walk through crowd that's right up against the main building (I had to return a library book).  I hear a booming voice, look to my right, and 10 feet away is presidential candidate Jesse Jackson giving a speech.  I thought "what the hell, he's a candidate for president, oughta stop and listen for the history."  Mind you, I didn't agree with much of Jesse's platform, wasn't gonna vote for him, any of that.  But, within 3-4 minutes, I was cheering with the crowd.  Run Jesse Run!  Go get em!

Speech ended, I start walking towards the UGL again....and in mere minutes, the adrenaline fades and I ask myself WTF that was all about?  I didn't actually agree with much of anything that he said...but I sure as hell got caught up in the energy and the moment.

It happens incredibly easily and naturally.  It's just that for a lot of us, the brain never takes back over after the euphoria of the crowd/moment.  It feels so good, that they never let that feeling go, and stick with the feeling of the crowd forever.

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On 4/19/2024 at 7:59 AM, High Plains Drifter said:

 

hang his ass from the yard arm. 

Do they still do that? If not, this would be the perfect time to bring the practice back. 

 

How fitting to use a spar on the USS Constitution.

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On 5/10/2024 at 10:59 AM, Brisketexan said:

No.  More than just "fuck that guy."  I hope he dies a painful death, and right soon.  He is evil incarnate.  He is bitter and angry, and wants the rest of the world and humanity to suffer to make himself feel better.  I want him to live the remainder of his days in excruciating pain, physical and emotional, with no hope for relief, and no easy path to suicide.  Just a slow drip of decay, causing his death in months.

spacer.png

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Posted (edited)
On 6/3/2024 at 4:36 PM, Brisketexan said:

And it's also deeply embedded in our nature.

I've related the story before about walking through the W. Mall in 1988.  I walk through crowd that's right up against the main building (I had to return a library book).  I hear a booming voice, look to my right, and 10 feet away is presidential candidate Jesse Jackson giving a speech.  I thought "what the hell, he's a candidate for president, oughta stop and listen for the history."  Mind you, I didn't agree with much of Jesse's platform, wasn't gonna vote for him, any of that.  But, within 3-4 minutes, I was cheering with the crowd.  Run Jesse Run!  Go get em!

Speech ended, I start walking towards the UGL again....and in mere minutes, the adrenaline fades and I ask myself WTF that was all about?  I didn't actually agree with much of anything that he said...but I sure as hell got caught up in the energy and the moment.

It happens incredibly easily and naturally.  It's just that for a lot of us, the brain never takes back over after the euphoria of the crowd/moment.  It feels so good, that they never let that feeling go, and stick with the feeling of the crowd forever.

 

Well, I felt this way at an Obama rally. I've never been swept up like that (even at badass concerts) ever since.

It helped that I agreed with him AND I totally hooked up with a chick after his rally at the Toyota center.

No candidate for president will ever top Hope and Strange for me.

Edited by Dnaguy
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2 hours ago, Dnaguy said:

 

Well, I felt this way at an Obama rally. I've never been swept up like that (even at badass concerts) ever since.

It helped that I agreed with him AND I totally hooked up with a chick after his rally at the Toyota center.

No candidate for president will ever top Hope and Strange for me.

The Arc of the Moral Universe is Long, But it Bends Toward punani

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Posted (edited)
On 6/3/2024 at 5:36 PM, Brisketexan said:

I've related the story before about walking through the W. Mall in 1988.  I walk through crowd that's right up against the main building (I had to return a library book).  I hear a booming voice, look to my right, and 10 feet away is presidential candidate Jesse Jackson giving a speech.

I was also there that day.  

I just had a burger/chocolate shake at Mad Dog’s, followed by coffee at Les Amis — where two Leftist chicks were telling me about going to see Jackson.

So I wandered over to see the action. Since I am claustrophobic and cannot stand being crammed in crowds of any kind, I decided to sit down on the steps on northwest edge (if I recall) of the Tower. Hardly anyone near me. 

I am sitting there, chilling out and thumbing through a book, when I glance to my right and here comes Jesse, striding toward me with 2-3 dudes. I don’t think it was more guys than that.  We made eye contact, he nods his heads toward me in a friendly gesture and strode past. Of course, I nodded back. (Jackson and team can probably tell by my late new wave fashion sense I am obviously not some frat boy fascist.) 

I recall instantly picking up a vibe. Jackson was tall and had charisma and swagger. A very real swagger, likely earned from hard-won successes facing down racism …. not the bogus swagger posing that many politicians, CEOs, football coaches, and faux Alpha dogs try to have. I stood on outside edge of crowd to see/hear Jackson speak, and he exuded real charisma and confidence, unlike 99.9% of politicians back then or today. 

No wonder, Jackson soon had Brisket, the Leftist chicks, and the liberal crowd passionately and spontaneously cheering in mass. With the ineffable swagger/charisma delivering a liberal message, there was a rock concert energy pulsing through the speech and overall scene. 

TLDR: Brisket's Jesse Jackson moment was not just mass crowd behavior … it was also contingent on the speaker and the message. 

Edited by BevoAbyss
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“You’re violating my Freedom of Breach!” 
 

-no, that says ‘Speech.’

”Then something about zip ties or guns or I don’t have to talk to you in court “

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On 6/7/2024 at 4:43 PM, tx 3 putt said:

Lock him up …

 

Johnson is an example that lying pays and how his party accepts it.

In 2022, with over 2.6m votes cast, Johnson won by 27,000 votes. He probably either doesn’t plan to run again in 2028 or he’s counting on people forgetting. 

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29 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Johnson is an example that lying pays and how his party accepts it.

In 2022, with over 2.6m votes cast, Johnson won by 27,000 votes. He probably either doesn’t plan to run again in 2028 or he’s counting on people forgetting. 

I hope he's dead long before then.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

Blows me away these idiots, very impressive fail …

1. Cover your fucking face up, and head


2. Get rid of everything you wore that day

 

do these two things and highly highly likely you get away clear and free 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I say give him the spear, right through his sternum. He attacked my country. He should die.

Yeah, asking for the return of a spear offers up some extremely Lacedaemonian possibilities along the lines of Persians demanding earth and water. 

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