Identifying Trump rioters

[TexasEd 8266]

4 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Guess that was just a stupid question in general.  I guess I really wondered if there was any crime that a President couldn't pardon.  Such as, say 'seditious conspiracy.'

 

Trump wants to pardon himself for it too.

[YGIFS 19458]

Not a stupid question at all.  So much of what is going to transpire in the next 18 months is understandably controversial and murky, at best.  For the simple reason when they wrote that shit, they never imagined in any tangent that a sitting or former President would be capable of such shit.  They just didn't bake that in.  And understandably so.  If Hamilton or Jay wrote something like, "And if such a perfect phone call is placed, it shall be within the scope of a President's rights.  Blah, blah, blah.  Ipso facto."  We'd all be worshipping a statue of John Jay because he would have predicted telephone calls 125 years ahead of time like a fucking demi-god.  

[Sawbonz 28220]

On 7/13/2023 at 12:20 PM, Biff Tannen said:

So did he still enter the Capitol that day?  If so, I don't give a flying fuck what he thought about the Oath Keepers.  He was there to participate in a violent coup attempt.

A Michael Jackson impersonator?

[Biff Tannen 46165]

1 hour ago, YGIFS said:

Not a stupid question at all.  So much of what is going to transpire in the next 18 months is understandably controversial and murky, at best.  For the simple reason when they wrote that shit, they never imagined in any tangent that a sitting or former President would be capable of such shit.  They just didn't bake that in.  And understandably so.  If Hamilton or Jay wrote something like, "And if such a perfect phone call is placed, it shall be within the scope of a President's rights.  Blah, blah, blah.  Ipso facto."  We'd all be worshipping a statue of John Jay because he would have predicted telephone calls 125 years ahead of time like a fucking demi-god.  

Add to that AR-15s and we'd be living in a simulation or something.

[Sawbonz 28220]

5 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

This guy

What a Governor we have

 

**rolling

[Francisco 2.0 32588]

Oh, nobody really.  Just the #2 Trump campaign official for New Hampshire:

 

 

 

Quote

The No. 2 official in New Hampshire on Donald Trump's presidential campaign told police to kill themselves in an expletive-ridden Jan. 6 video shot close to the U.S. Capitol, according to a recording posted this month by an X account associated with the "Sedition Hunters," a group of online sleuths who have helped authorities identify hundreds of people present that day.

"If you are a police officer and are going to abide by unconstitutional bulls---, I want you to do me a favor right now and go hang yourself, because you’re a piece of s---," Dylan Quattrucci, the deputy state director of Trump's campaign in New Hampshire, says in the video. "Go f--- yourself."

 

 

 

[Brisketexan 106891]

Oh, nobody really.  Just the #2 Trump campaign official for New Hampshire:
 
 
 

The No. 2 official in New Hampshire on Donald Trump's presidential campaign told police to kill themselves in an expletive-ridden Jan. 6 video shot close to the U.S. Capitol, according to a recording posted this month by an X account associated with the "Sedition Hunters," a group of online sleuths who have helped authorities identify hundreds of people present that day.
"If you are a police officer and are going to abide by unconstitutional bulls---, I want you to do me a favor right now and go hang yourself, because you’re a piece of s---," Dylan Quattrucci, the deputy state director of Trump's campaign in New Hampshire, says in the video. "Go f--- yourself."

 
 
 

Well, that checks out, because…and follow me here, this is complicated…Trump, his entire party, and everyone who voted for it, are open and proud traitors who want to overthrow the Republic.
Every other nation in the history of the world would have hanged these traitors by the thousands already.

[TwiceHorn 32078]

The maximum sentence for Seditious Conspiracy is 20 years.

As a practical matter, one is usually sentenced under the stiffest crime of conviction and the rest of the counts are dismissed or sentenced concurrently, so like 17 for seditious conspiracy, 15 for obstruction of official proceeding, 10 for assault on a federal officer, etc., but they run concurrently, so 17 is the practical maximum.

The government must have been asking to make the sentences run consecutively, or stack, which probably wasn't realistically going to happen.

[tx 3 putt 78677]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

 
 
 

Well, that checks out, because…and follow me here, this is complicated…Trump, his entire party, and everyone who voted for it, are open and proud traitors who want to overthrow the Republic.
Every other nation in the history of the world would have hanged these traitors by the thousands already.

wasn’t long ago, they’d all be shot 

[Js1 87182]

5 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

wasn’t long ago, they’d all be shot 

Meh getting shot in this country isn’t a big deal. I vote we go back to public hangings for treason 

[tx 3 putt 78677]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

Meh getting shot in this country isn’t a big deal. I vote we go back to public hangings for treason 

I’ll pull the lever 

[TwiceHorn 32078]

Just a point of fact.  Not very many people have been convicted of treason against the US (as opposed to a state, see John Brown), and fewer still have been executed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_convicted_of_treason

This shit is treasonOUS and traitorous, but it ain't treason. And this idea that we routinely execute people convicted of treason is just bullshit.  No one has been executed in the US for treason since the Civil War.

Edited September 1, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[Stilicho 1422]

8 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Meh getting shot in this country isn’t a big deal. I vote we go back to public hangings for treason 

Been waffling on this in my own head. 

On the one hand, feels a bit ghoulish for a city on a hill. 

On the other, the immediate future is only going to look back on this shitshow in one light:  as a blueprint. 

You don’t stop fascists by cutting deals with them to lay out of politics or by slapping them on the wrist with jail sentences that aren’t even as stiff as some drug possession convictions.

You stop them by reminding them of how it ended for Mussolini. 

Guess I’ll meet you at the Esso station. 

[Brisketexan 106891]

Just a point of fact.  Not very many people have been convicted of treason against the US (as opposed to a state, see John Brown), and fewer still have been executed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_convicted_of_treason
This shit is treasonOUS and traitorous, but it ain't treason. And this idea that we routinely execute people convicted of treason is just bullshit.  No one has been executed in the US for treason since the Civil War.

Oh, I’m not saying we do that - you and I are on the same page on that.

I’m saying that we fucking should. See below.

Been waffling on this in my own head. 
On the one hand, feels a bit ghoulish for a city on a hill. 
On the other, the immediate future is only going to look back on this shitshow in one light:  as a blueprint. 
You don’t stop fascists by cutting deals with them to lay out of politics or by slapping them on the wrist with jail sentences that aren’t even as stiff as some drug possession convictions.
You stop them by reminding them of how it ended for Mussolini. 
Guess I’ll meet you at the Esso station. 

There is one way to deal with fascists. One. It involves an Esso station.

[G650 14437]

9 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

And this idea that we routinely execute people convicted of treason is just bullshit. 

 

I've never met a person in my entire life that believes we regularly execute people for treason.

[Biff Tannen 46165]

10 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

No one has been executed in the US for treason since the Civil War.

Well it sounds like it may be about time to crank it back up.

[Pato del Muerto 53492]

What would you call a group of Americans attempting to sack the US Capitol if not civil war?

[4th&Five 42004]

[RomaVicta 30583]

I don't want to start a sprawling legal argument, I want only to be the first to make this observation:

It's strange that the violent man at the tip of the spear who actually breeched the Capitol isn't punished as least as much as the other two guys. His is the most willful act that introduced real jeopardy to Congress.

I'm sure it comes down to the specifics how the charges are defined. He's not charged with seditious conspiracy or whatever. 

The optics say that you can break a window in the Capital, encourage others to enter, enter yourself, and hunt down victims and you're crime isn't as big a deal as armed robbery.

That's nuts. This guy would have given John Wilkes Booth a boost up the presidential box of Ford's Theater. 

[Eskimohorn 5682]

Just a point of fact.  Not very many people have been convicted of treason against the US (as opposed to a state, see John Brown), and fewer still have been executed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_convicted_of_treason
This shit is treasonOUS and traitorous, but it ain't treason. And this idea that we routinely execute people convicted of treason is just bullshit.  No one has been executed in the US for treason since the Civil War.

We’ve never had disruption of the peaceful transition of power since the Civil War. Had people in government prepping for war and there was a plot to kill Lincoln

[SKJ 1319]

On 8/31/2023 at 12:50 PM, YGIFS said:

That's what South Austin's Mom said.  

Yeah, it is weird.  When I spent years literally studying actually case law in school...only times you saw maxes topped out were for drug possession/dealing/trafficking crimes and only for men of color with shitty legal representation.  In every other instance, it's just this arbitrary number that took multiple legislative sessions to produce that is never even flirting with being implemented at any level for any crime.  

I got the max. 

I think it was just because the facts of what they could prove verses what they think they knew were so divergent. 

On 8/31/2023 at 1:25 PM, RomaVicta said:

I'm going to Disney Land Federal prison!

 

I have no sympathy for these traitors and enemies. Had this man been sentenced to hang or spend life in prison, I would have no quibble. But that's not what happened. All of that said, 17 years in federal prison is hardly lenient.

He's 39. He'll be 56 when he's released as federal sentences, as I understand them, don't offer a lot of reduced time.

You get 15% per year good time. 

So 54 days a year off max

[TwiceHorn 32078]

3 hours ago, Eskimohorn said:

We’ve never had disruption of the peaceful transition of power since the Civil War. Had people in government prepping for war and there was a plot to kill Lincoln

I never expressed an opinion on whether we SHOULD execute people for treason, or even seditious conspiracy.  But, I'm opposed to the death penalty and not going to make an exception here.  Life is good enough.  Twenty years is probably good enough.

But people round here like to call what all these assholes did treason -- but it's not -- and insist that they be put to death, which we don't routinely do.  Even the one convicted for treason against the US during the Civil War was "tried" by a military tribunal without due process for taking down a US flag, which isn't treason.

[TwiceHorn 32078]

8 hours ago, G650 said:

 

I've never met a person in my entire life that believes we regularly execute people for treason.

How many times have you had that conversation?  Look upthread.

[G650 14437]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

How many times have you had that conversation?  Look upthread.

 

People are citing examples of ones we executed for treason?  Serious question, I honestly haven't looked that hard.

[TwiceHorn 32078]

4 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

I don't want to start a sprawling legal argument, I want only to be the first to make this observation:

It's strange that the violent man at the tip of the spear who actually breeched the Capitol isn't punished as least as much as the other two guys. His is the most willful act that introduced real jeopardy to Congress.

I'm sure it comes down to the specifics how the charges are defined. He's not charged with seditious conspiracy or whatever. 

The optics say that you can break a window in the Capital, encourage others to enter, enter yourself, and hunt down victims and you're crime isn't as big a deal as armed robbery.

That's nuts. This guy would have given John Wilkes Booth a boost up the presidential box of Ford's Theater. 

Guy was not convicted of seditious conspiracy.  He was convicted of obstruction of an official proceeding and some other stuff.

Both SC and OOP are 20 year felonies.  But, I suspect that the sentencing guidelines push the range higher along the 20 year scale than for OOP.  Also, according to some articles, there was evidence that Pezzola was manipulated by Proud Boys leadership, the guys that got the bigger sentences, to do certain stuff.

So, I'm guessing the trial judge thought a) due to the lack of conviction of seditious conspiracy b) the sentencing guidelines probably putting the range closer to 10 than 20 and c) the evidence that he was a useful idiot for the leaders, are what account for the disparity in sentences.

[TwiceHorn 32078]

6 minutes ago, G650 said:

 

People are citing examples of ones we executed for treason?  Serious question, I honestly haven't looked that hard.

People around here love to say that these people committed treason and should be put to death. Treason is, in fact, a death penalty offense, but it's rarely sentenced that way.  Treason also basically has to be committed during a time of declared war, not a "police action," not something under the War Powers Resolution, but an actual declared war.

People can argue that these sentence are unduly light, but using the death penalty for treason as an argument in support or an endpoint of the sentencing range just isn't factual:  they couldn't be convicted of treason, and even if they were, historically, it's not actually a death penalty offense.  Most of the sentences have been fewer than 20 years and many have been commuted or pardoned.

Edited September 1, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[RomaVicta 30583]

12 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Guy was not convicted of seditious conspiracy.  He was convicted of obstruction of an official proceeding and some other stuff.

Both SC and OOP are 20 year felonies.  But, I suspect that the sentencing guidelines push the range higher along the 20 year scale than for OOP.  Also, according to some articles, there was evidence that Pezzola was manipulated by Proud Boys leadership, the guys that got the bigger sentences, to do certain stuff.

So, I'm guessing the trial judge thought a) due to the lack of conviction of seditious conspiracy b) the sentencing guidelines probably putting the range closer to 10 than 20 and c) the evidence that he was a useful idiot for the leaders, are what account for the disparity in sentences.

I know he wasn't charged with SC. I'm not making a legal argument. 

[G650 14437]

19 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

People around here love to say that these people committed treason and should be put to death. Treason is, in fact, a death penalty offense, but it's rarely sentenced that way.  Treason also basically has to be committed during a time of declared war, not a "police action," not something under the War Powers Resolution, but an actual declared war.

People can argue that these sentence are unduly light, but using the death penalty for treason as an argument in support or an endpoint of the sentencing range just isn't factual:  they couldn't be convicted of treason, and even if they were, historically, it's not actually a death penalty offense.  Most of the sentences have been fewer than 20 years and many have been commuted or pardoned.

Alrighty then. I'm not sure how any of this applies to what I said but carry on.

[WhatTheBuck 28929]

20 hours ago, Stilicho said:

Been waffling on this in my own head. 

On the one hand, feels a bit ghoulish for a city on a hill. 

On the other, the immediate future is only going to look back on this shitshow in one light:  as a blueprint. 

You don’t stop fascists by cutting deals with them to lay out of politics or by slapping them on the wrist with jail sentences that aren’t even as stiff as some drug possession convictions.

You stop them by reminding them of how it ended for Mussolini. 

Guess I’ll meet you at the Esso station. 

The gallows should be erected in front of the Capitol steps. 

[TwiceHorn 32078]

2 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

I know he wasn't charged with SC. I'm not making a legal argument. 

Actually, I believe he was charged with SC, but the jury did not convict.  Although he was convicted of another 20 year felony, they're not all created equal, so to speak.

I know, just giving you the likely reasons. Nor am I saying your argument is in any way off base.  I'm sure the government argued something pretty similar.

Weirdly enough, it is still legal and constitutional to sentence someone based on "acquitted conduct," that is conduct that pertains only to one charge that the jury acquitted on.  So the judge can effectively substitute his judgment for that of the jury and enhance a sentence on that basis.

While it is still legal, a lot of lawyers and judges find that grossly offensive, others are happy to do it.  I'm kind of thinking Judge Kelly didn't feel like he should sentence him the same as those actually convicted of seditious conspiracy, even though he was dealing with a 20 year max on both offenses.

Edited September 2, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[Francisco 2.0 32588]

Hubris.

 

 

 

 

[Chad Fuck 18135]

Hubris.
 
 
 
 

Maybe. With a side of denial.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13629]

2 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Hubris.

 

 

 

 

'Member that one time, Joe, when Trump was dissing McCain and saying he liked soldiers who didn't get caught, and you thought it was really cool cuz Trump was an asshole?

[Smax 3800]

On 9/1/2023 at 7:40 PM, WhatTheBuck said:

The gallows should be erected in front of the Capitol steps. 

 

I prefer a guillotine but agree

[Gatorubet 30715]

Quote

Biggs then complained about the quality of the food in jail, then asked for people to send money to help support his family. He said that the government took away his military pension as part of his sentence.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Gatorubet

[Bookman 4760]

On 9/1/2023 at 9:17 AM, Pato del Muerto said:

What would you call a group of Americans attempting to sack the US Capitol if not civil war?

Republicans call it "legitimate political discourse."

[Gourmand 7778]

It's FAFO'clock for Enrique Tarrio. Judge about to sentence him to federal prison....reading the live tweets from the court room and Judge Kelly is hammering him.

[Gourmand 7778]

 

[Beau Vine 55864]

22 years

[locodos 5591]

On 9/3/2023 at 11:27 AM, Smax said:

 

I prefer a guillotine but agree

oh lala, how continental of you!

Can we at least put them face up?

[Gourmand 7778]

[Biff Tannen 46165]

Not long enough

[cactusflinthead 27627]

22 years. Bye.

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by cactusflinthead

[Bullneck 19519]

Hopefully the prosecutors that are suing to have some of these short sentences reviewed will win.  

[Gatorubet 30715]

Quote

Then, perhaps taking a shot at co-defendant Joe Biggs who yelled 'Trump Won!' leaving the courtroom, Tarrio said, "I want nothing to do with politics anymore. When I walk out this door, I won't be saying anything." He concluded his statement by pleading with the judge, "Do not take my 40s away from me." (Tarrio is 39)

 Judge said, “No problem Fam - I won’t do that. So at your request I’m taking your 40s AND your 50s away….”*
 

(* paraphrasing)

[Gatorubet 30715]

Also, it turns out that prior to J6 he was a snitch that worked with police to convict a bunch of people.

I am sure that prison culture has no problem with a snitch.

[troph 25226]

21 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Also, it turns out that prior to J6 he was a snitch that worked with police to convict a bunch of people.

I am sure that prison culture has no problem with a snitch.

Yikes.

[MissingInAction 25556]

32 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Also, it turns out that prior to J6 he was a snitch that worked with police to convict a bunch of people.

I am sure that prison culture has no problem with a snitch.

[AnTiM 1695]

A M F

[GhostOfTomJoad 9508]

37 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Also, it turns out that prior to J6 he was a snitch that worked with police to convict a bunch of people.

I am sure that prison culture has no problem with a snitch.

That may make him eligible for early release. In a pine box.