Lynching Memorial has opened in Alabama

[Pancho 44,860]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/25/us/lynching-memorial-alabama.html

 

Quote

The National Memorial for Peace and Justice, which opens Thursday on a six-acre site overlooking the Alabama State Capitol, is dedicated to the victims of American white supremacy. And it demands a reckoning with one of the nation’s least recognized atrocities: the lynching of thousands of black people in a decades-long campaign of racist terror.

At the center is a grim cloister, a walkway with 800 weathered steel columns, all hanging from a roof. Etched on each column is the name of an American county and the people who were lynched there, most listed by name, many simply as “unknown.” The columns meet you first at eye level, like the headstones that lynching victims were rarely given. But as you walk, the floor steadily descends; by the end, the columns are all dangling above, leaving you in the position of the callous spectators in old photographs of public lynchings.

The magnitude of the killing is harrowing, all the more so when paired with the circumstances of individual lynchings, some described in brief summaries along the walk: Parks Banks, lynched in Mississippi in 1922 for carrying a photograph of a white woman; Caleb Gadly, hanged in Kentucky in 1894 for “walking behind the wife of his white employer”; Mary Turner, who after denouncing her husband’s lynching by a rampaging white mob, was hung upside down, burned and then sliced open so that her unborn child fell to the ground.

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Pancho Negro

[PRONG HORN 3,148]

2 hours ago, Pancho Negro said:

Parks Banks, lynched in Mississippi in 1922 for carrying a photograph of a white woman; Caleb Gadly, hanged in Kentucky in 1894 for “walking behind the wife of his white employer”; Mary Turner, who after denouncing her husband’s lynching by a rampaging white mob, was hung upside down, burned and then sliced open so that her unborn child fell to the ground.

 

 

You're surprised?  Human gonna human.  

 

 

On another note, this graphic representation of the memorial is interesting.  Where the white women at?

 

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by PRONG HORN

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

Hopefully it'll do more good there, but I wish it was in DC so people didn't have to go to Alabama to see it. 

[DanRydell 799]

Tahoe's dad is rolling over in his grave

[TxEx84 405]

Saw the 60 Minutes episode last week.  Pretty powerful.  And it wasn't that long ago.

[d2o 1,602]

2 hours ago, Pancho Negro said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/25/us/lynching-memorial-alabama.html

 

 

Thank you for this.   We may have to take a trip up there.   Sobering.  Sickening.  But it needs to be scene.

[Zepol87 9,188]

^^^ Completely agree

[LongestHorn 759]

Christian Whites would proudly pose for photographs in front of the people they murdered.  For doing their part.  In murder.  

[staboner 4,984]

1 hour ago, d2o said:

Thank you for this.   We may have to take a trip up there.   Sobering.  Sickening.  But it needs to be scene.

*seen

agreed

4 minutes ago, LongestHorn said:

Christian Whites would proudly pose for photographs in front of the people they murdered.  For doing their part.  In murder.  

not a constructive comment at all

[Jiggy-Z 3,433]

A few month's ago I was watching Oliver Stone's documentary on the "Untold History of the US" or some such, and there was a brief segment in one of the episodes on lynching that was pretty moving without really being sappy.  It hit you with the facts and also had a lynching scene from a Henry Fonda movie.  If I recall the episode hit you with some pretty shitty things that humans do to each other , then they went to 11 with the lynching stuff.  Good stuff.  We need to be reminded of what we are capable of, lest we do it again.

[Brisketexan 105,161]

5 minutes ago, LongestHorn said:

Christian Whites would proudly pose for photographs in front of the people they murdered.  For doing their part.  In murder.  

From Center, Texas:

Georgia:

Waco:

....and we could go on.  How about these jubilant fellows?  Some of those guys are surely still alive.  Old, but alive.  Leaders in their community, even.

 

[Brisketexan 105,161]

5 minutes ago, staboner said:

 

not a constructive comment at all

I think it is.

We've never come to terms with the horrors and cruelty we  -- white folks, churchgoing folks, local leadership -- inflicted on black people.

We passed the Civil Rights Act (and now we get to hear people tell us how that was a bad idea).  And we have told black people, since the day it was voted on, to "get over it."

If that was me sitting at that lunch counter with food poured on my head...or if that was my father or grandfather there...or my great grandfather, swinging from a tree while the entire town points and smiles...I don't think I'd be "over it."

[RDCanecutter 26,454]

Some of my family lived in Lowndes County Alabama 100 years ago, when it was the highest per-capita lynching county in the nation.

One great-uncle, before my time, but just from garbled no-doubt-sanitized stories, he could be a hard guy. Hate to think of him being at a lynching.

Truth be told, he might be the one who never saw one. Might've been the "nice" ancestors.

[staboner 4,984]

45 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I think it is.

We've never come to terms with the horrors and cruelty we  -- white folks, churchgoing folks, local leadership -- inflicted on black people.

We passed the Civil Rights Act (and now we get to hear people tell us how that was a bad idea).  And we have told black people, since the day it was voted on, to "get over it."

If that was me sitting at that lunch counter with food poured on my head...or if that was my father or grandfather there...or my great grandfather, swinging from a tree while the entire town points and smiles...I don't think I'd be "over it."

I don't know man. seems like talking down is a disease on the internet.  there are white Christians who helped end slavery, as i know you know. 

anyway, thread derail apology

[d2o 1,602]

1 hour ago, staboner said:

*seen

agreed

not a constructive comment at all

Yep, My fault

[Brisketexan 105,161]

49 minutes ago, staboner said:

I don't know man. seems like talking down is a disease on the internet.  there are white Christians who helped end slavery, as i know you know. 

anyway, thread derail apology

I think it's a fair thread derail, and I think your point is fair.

It's frustrating to see casual denial or purposeful ignorance of what are still open and raw wounds, telling folks actual words or words that amount to "Get over it," all while failing to EVER own the role of our institutions and predecessors in some truly heinous shit.

Yet it's equally frustrating for all to be painted with one brush -- there were many courageous men and women of deep faith and principles who fought so hard against injustice and evil, and they don't much need further repentance or acknowledgement.  Just continue to do their Good Works.

I certainly confess that my reaction to these events is emotional -- I have an overdeveloped sense of justice and fairness.  I have a fantastic book on the movement that we picked up browsing shops in New Orleans on a long-ago rainy weekend:

Every time I've sat down with this book, my eyes end up clouded with tears of anger and rage.  Probably not healthy for me.  But it's pure and visceral.

And I posted way back about our visit to the Manzanar internment camp (Japanese internment camp on the eastern side of the Sierras).  Same thing happened to me there.  Tears, shame, incredible anger.

I admit that I don't understand how you can be human and NOT feel that way when you see or read about these events.  And how you CAN'T see how brutalizing and crushing they were, for decades, centuries even.

Slavery and Jim Crow are among our nation's deepest shames.  And we have NEVER truly reckoned with them.  Which is fascinating, because we had a damned bloody war about the first thing, but we never actually reckoned with it.

It all makes me sad, and angry.  Still.  I don't know if I'll ever pass through Bama again.  If so, I might oughta visit this memorial.  But knowing how I'd feel walking away from it, maybe I shouldn't.  That's some rough shit.

[El Diablo 4,232]

That's got to be one visually powerful sight. Kudos to the creators for caring enough to build something like that. I don't imagine that it will ever be a tourist destination but it sure as hell ought to be a field trip for school students.

My uncle was born sometime around the turn of the last century and I remember him telling me that in the 20's he'd belonged to the Klan. They presented themselves as a fraternal organization from what he said. Kinda like joining the Moose Lodge I guess. I don't think he was in long and he said all they ever did was drink beer like any other mens club would. He said a lot of guys joined because jobs were scarce and they'd joined in part to make a show of force by marching or making a scene however they could to discourage blacks from seeking employment where they might be taking jobs from the whites.

I found it fascinating in part because he and my dad had both grown up working the farms where G'pa found work as a sharecropper. They were dirt poor themselves and were no higher on the social ladder than the blacks aside from the color of their skin.

It didn't suit him at all and he only was in for a short time. From his description it sounded very aggy like, a lot of chest pumping and cheap talk.

Still, a mob mentality is a dangerous thing and there's no telling what he might have seen or even been a part of. I don't know where he was living at that time but it might have been Houston. 

[staboner 4,984]

47 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I think it's a fair thread derail, and I think your point is fair.

It's frustrating to see casual denial or purposeful ignorance of what are still open and raw wounds, telling folks actual words or words that amount to "Get over it," all while failing to EVER own the role of our institutions and predecessors in some truly heinous shit.

Yet it's equally frustrating for all to be painted with one brush -- there were many courageous men and women of deep faith and principles who fought so hard against injustice and evil, and they don't much need further repentance or acknowledgement.  Just continue to do their Good Works.

I certainly confess that my reaction to these events is emotional -- I have an overdeveloped sense of justice and fairness.  I have a fantastic book on the movement that we picked up browsing shops in New Orleans on a long-ago rainy weekend:

Every time I've sat down with this book, my eyes end up clouded with tears of anger and rage.  Probably not healthy for me.  But it's pure and visceral.

And I posted way back about our visit to the Manzanar internment camp (Japanese internment camp on the eastern side of the Sierras).  Same thing happened to me there.  Tears, shame, incredible anger.

I admit that I don't understand how you can be human and NOT feel that way when you see or read about these events.  And how you CAN'T see how brutalizing and crushing they were, for decades, centuries even.

Slavery and Jim Crow are among our nation's deepest shames.  And we have NEVER truly reckoned with them.  Which is fascinating, because we had a damned bloody war about the first thing, but we never actually reckoned with it.

It all makes me sad, and angry.  Still.  I don't know if I'll ever pass through Bama again.  If so, I might oughta visit this memorial.  But knowing how I'd feel walking away from it, maybe I shouldn't.  That's some rough shit.

I hear you man. I know you have a heavy justice bend. Same here. I also read/watch/remember stuff like this and just can't fathom how people can behave in such a manner. Its shocking to me. 

Sometimes I feel like talking through the positive lens of the story is best. but don't get me wrong, I go about it the other way plenty of times. In this instance, ironically enough, I think I felt the white Christian folks are in the minority of the discussion, so I kind of backed them (my justice and fairness bend). As in maybe they aren't recognized for their work here nearly enough. 

Take it easy man

Edited April 27, 2018 by staboner

[SubliminalHorn 6,808]

I would visit it if it weren’t in Ala-fucking-bama 

[futureman 22,494]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I think it is.

We've never come to terms with the horrors and cruelty we  -- white folks, churchgoing folks, local leadership -- inflicted on black people.

We passed the Civil Rights Act (and now we get to hear people tell us how that was a bad idea).  And we have told black people, since the day it was voted on, to "get over it."

If that was me sitting at that lunch counter with food poured on my head...or if that was my father or grandfather there...or my great grandfather, swinging from a tree while the entire town points and smiles...I don't think I'd be "over it."

totally agree. christian whites are ruthless killers.  almost as bad as muslim browns. 

[futureman 22,494]

1 hour ago, staboner said:

I hear you man. I know you have a heavy justice bend. Same here. I also read/watch/remember stuff like this and just can't fathom how people can behave in such a manner. Its shocking to me. 

Sometimes I feel like talking through the positive lens of the story is best. but don't get me wrong, I go about it the other way plenty of times. In this instance, ironically enough, I think I felt the white Christian folks are in the minority of the discussion, so I kind of backed them (my justice and fairness bend). As in maybe they aren't recognized for their work here nearly enough. 

Take it easy man

brisket is fragile and unhinged.  better to just enjoy the show.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,819]

I think a lot of people lose perspective of time.   “Oh that was so long ago, so much has changed!”

Well I’m 51 and I went to school and am contemporaries with people whose older brothers and sisters went to segregated schools, whose parents endured Jim Crow laws and segregated everything, and whose grandparents might have been those hanging in the pictures.  The stench doesn’t wash off that quickly.  It wasn’t that long ago that you can just forget, let alone forgive easily.  

[softlynow 1,816]

56 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

I would visit it if it weren’t in Ala-fucking-bama 

That’s a silly attitude. Alabama is on the way to many worthwhile destinations. 

[PRONG HORN 3,148]

 

5 hours ago, LongestHorn said:

Christian Whites would proudly pose for photographs in front of the people they murdered.  For doing their part.  In murder.  

 

Aren't there some Hispanics in the pics someone posted?  Yeah, there are.  It's not just whitey who hates.  

[Brisketexan 105,161]

1 hour ago, futureman said:

brisket is fragile and unhinged.  better to just enjoy the show.

It’s okay.  I feel horrible when I read about stuff like his happening, and I wonder what kind of utterly worthless human garbage would do such things.

Then you show up, and I don’t have to wonder anymore.

[futureman 22,494]

36 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It’s okay.  I feel horrible when I read about stuff like his happening, and I wonder what kind of utterly worthless human garbage would do such things.

Then you show up, and I don’t have to wonder anymore.

yes, of course, I’d lynch people and take photos of it.  you have figured me out.  

you're a lunatic. 

[Helobious 9,463]

6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

 

 

Looks like the T-Birds are trying to challenge the black guy to a street race. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13,585]

8 hours ago, futureman said:

yes, of course, I’d lynch people and take photos of it.  you have figured me out.  

you're a lunatic. 

White Christians were overwhelmingly responsible for lynchings of blacks in America.

There are lots of good white Christians too.

Other people have done bad things as well.

Feel better? 

[Brisketexan 105,161]

16 hours ago, futureman said:

yes, of course, I’d lynch people and take photos of it.  you have figured me out.  

you're a lunatic. 

No, you wouldn't.  Not today.  For the same reason that nobody's doing it today -- social and legal pressure has caught up with the phenomenon, and it is no longer socially or legally acceptable.

But dial back our social and legal standards to what they were in 1920....and yes, you are EXACTLY the kind of person who would do such a thing.  Look at the folks in those pictures.  A lot of them are "fine, upstanding folks."  Good working men, many wearing nice Sunday clothes.  The grocer, the pharmacist, the farmer, the car salesman.  Smiling for the camera.  These aren't toothless yahoos from back in the holler (well, some of them are).  They're folks just like you.

If you're NOT exactly the kind of person who would do that back in the day....who is?  You are cold, you are cruel, you are vindictive.  You demonstrate no redeemable human qualities on this board.  You are EXACTLY the kind of sick SOB who would inflict cruelty on his fellow man...if only society would get over itself and let him.

Maybe, just maybe, you're self-aware enough to look in the mirror and loathe what you see.  But I doubt it.

[Brisketexan 105,161]

30 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

No, you wouldn't.  Not today.  For the same reason that nobody's doing it today -- social and legal pressure has caught up with the phenomenon, and it is no longer socially or legally acceptable.

But dial back our social and legal standards to what they were in 1920....and yes, you are EXACTLY the kind of person who would do such a thing.  Look at the folks in those pictures.  A lot of them are "fine, upstanding folks."  Good working men, many wearing nice Sunday clothes.  The grocer, the pharmacist, the farmer, the car salesman.  Smiling for the camera.  These aren't toothless yahoos from back in the holler (well, some of them are).  They're folks just like you.

If you're NOT exactly the kind of person who would do that back in the day....who is?  You are cold, you are cruel, you are vindictive.  You demonstrate no redeemable human qualities on this board.  You are EXACTLY the kind of sick SOB who would inflict cruelty on his fellow man...if only society would get over itself and let him.

Maybe, just maybe, you're self-aware enough to look in the mirror and loathe what you see.  But I doubt it.

BTW -- I kinda love getting negged for stuff like this.  Drives the point home, don't it?

Yep, NOBODY would have been a lyncher.  Nope, nobody.  In fact, nobody WAS a lyncher back in the day.  All lies and fake news.

Own not just who you are, but EXACTLY who you would have been back in the day.  Own it.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13,585]

37 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The grocer, the pharmacist, the farmer, the car salesman.  

...and all gods they were.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

No, you wouldn't.  Not today.  For the same reason that nobody's doing it today -- social and legal pressure has caught up with the phenomenon, and it is no longer socially or legally acceptable.

But dial back our social and legal standards to what they were in 1920....and yes, you are EXACTLY the kind of person who would do such a thing.  Look at the folks in those pictures.  A lot of them are "fine, upstanding folks."  Good working men, many wearing nice Sunday clothes.  The grocer, the pharmacist, the farmer, the car salesman.  Smiling for the camera.  These aren't toothless yahoos from back in the holler (well, some of them are).  They're folks just like you.

If you're NOT exactly the kind of person who would do that back in the day....who is?  You are cold, you are cruel, you are vindictive.  You demonstrate no redeemable human qualities on this board.  You are EXACTLY the kind of sick SOB who would inflict cruelty on his fellow man...if only society would get over itself and let him.

Maybe, just maybe, you're self-aware enough to look in the mirror and loathe what you see.  But I doubt it.

Unhinged indeed. Future is fucking with you. Toying with your emotions. And you’re too stupid and bombastic to realize it. 

[DanRydell 799]

On 4/26/2018 at 2:55 PM, DanRydell said:

Tahoe's dad is rolling over in his grave

How on-brand that Grand Dragon Johnny Sack hated this post.

[David Dennison 18,930]

On 4/26/2018 at 9:47 PM, PRONG HORN said:

 

Aren't there some Hispanics in the pics someone posted?  Yeah, there are.  It's not just whitey who hates.  

This is some good all sides.

Well done.

[Sawbonz 27,580]

Goddammit brisket 

[GabrielsHorn 2,186]

While this thread got derailed pretty hard, one of my friends is someone who helped work to set this up. It's a really good memorial, and the work that they do with the African American communities in Alabama is vital. I really recommend going if you're ever in Alabama. 

[Beau Vine 54,276]

On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 3:04 PM, Brisketexan said:

Own not just who you are, but EXACTLY who you would have been back in the day.  Own it.

What in the hell?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

What in the hell?

Lost his mind.  Claims Future (and others, including me I guess) are exactly the kind of people who would be lynch mob participants.  Pathetic, pathetic posts.

[David Dennison 18,930]

59 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Lost his mind.  Claims Future (and others, including me I guess) are exactly the kind of people who would be lynch mob participants.  Pathetic, pathetic posts.

Well, if you're white, the odds are pretty good you would have at least checked it out if you lived in a town where a lynching took place. Kind of like what people do when there is a car crash or fire.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Well, if you're white, the odds are pretty good you would have at least checked it out if you lived in a town where a lynching took place. Kind of like what people do when there is a car crash or fire.

 

Nope. 

[LongestHorn 759]

Waco population 1920 was 38,000.  More than 10,000 were at 1916 James Washington lynching.  Waco's african-american population was 20% 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_of_Jesse_Washington

Edited April 30, 2018 by LongestHorn
Because your mother is a whore

[David Dennison 18,930]

47 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Nope. 

You might not actually have looked, but the odds are still good that you would have.

You're white, right?

[Helobious 9,463]

If said black lynching victim dared make a comment critical of Sam Ehlinger, Rex wouldn't just "look", he'd be stringing him up himself. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,788]

On April 26, 2018 at 5:22 PM, LongestHorn said:

Christian Whites would proudly pose for photographs in front of the people they murdered.  For doing their part.  In murder.  

They didn't just take photographs. They printed copies and sold them as postcards that were sent through the U.S. Mail. 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

On 4/26/2018 at 5:22 PM, LongestHorn said:

Christian Whites would proudly pose for photographs in front of the people they murdered.  For doing their part.  In murder.  

I'd say they weren't really christian then....  Calling yourself something doesn't make it so... (SEE: I am a meat Popsicle)........

 

If there is a hell those people are in it.

[joe dillon 11]

whata racist bunch here claiming otherwise

[NIUHuskies 504]

On 4/26/2018 at 9:47 PM, PRONG HORN said:

Aren't there some Hispanics in the pics someone posted?  Yeah, there are.  It's not just whitey who hates.  

To fit into the racial hierarchy, they had to. Read:

 

in order to avoid:

[David Dennison 18,930]

6 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I'd say they weren't really christian then....  Calling yourself something doesn't make it so... (SEE: I am a meat Popsicle)........

 

If there is a hell those people are in it.

Narrator: There isn't.

[Ghost of LL 15,539]

6 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I'd say they weren't really christian then....  Calling yourself something doesn't make it so... (SEE: I am a meat Popsicle)........

 

If there is a hell those people are in it.

"No real Scotsman," eh?

[DDD Dad 14,344]

8 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I'd say they weren't really christian then....  Calling yourself something doesn't make it so... (SEE: I am a meat Popsicle)........

 

If there is a hell those people are in it.

What does that make someone like Jeffers?  Brisket makes a very fair point about the nature of peer pressure and socially acceptable conduct having an impact.  One need only view the current rise in hate speech over the last few years to see that normalizing hate will bring people's hidden fears and prejudices to the surface.

Sure, some have truly changed their views in the face of the horrors, but sadly many simply wait for the opportunity to see that others share their views and will allow them to be voiced (or worse acted upon--e.g., Charlottesville).

To end the thread drift, this memorial was moving to me just looking at the photos in the NY Times article.  I have no desire ever to travel to Montgomery, but like turning Lee's family homestead into Arlington National Cemetery, a memorial like this needed to be placed in the heart of KKK land.

 

Edited April 30, 2018 by DDD Dad