Lynching Memorial has opened in Alabama

[GhostRider 169]

17 hours ago, LongestHorn said:

Waco population 1920 was 38,000.  More than 10,000 were at 1916 James Washington lynching.  Waco's african-american population was 20% 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_of_Jesse_Washington

So then 28,000, almost 3/4 of the population, did not attend the lynching.

[Brisketexan 105441]

11 minutes ago, GhostRider said:

So then 28,000, almost 3/4 of the population, did not attend the lynching.

Well...being that over 7,000 of those folks were black....I'd expect they kept their asses FAR AWAY.

Waco had around 30,000 white folks.  ONE THIRD of them attended.  That's one well-attended shindig.  And a shindig it was:

Quote

Over 10,000 spectators, including city officials and police, gathered to watch the attack. There was a celebratory atmosphere at the event, and many children attended during their lunch hour. Members of the mob castrated Washington, cut off his fingers, and hung him over a bonfire. He was repeatedly lowered and raised over the fire for about two hours. After the fire was extinguished, his charred torso was dragged through the town and parts of his body were sold as souvenirs. A professional photographer took pictures as the event unfolded, providing rare imagery of a lynching in progress. The pictures were printed and sold as postcards in Waco.

But, you know.... NOBODY around here would have been part of such a crowd back in the day, nosiree.

[GhostRider 169]

I'm quite confident that I would not have been in attendance.

[Brisketexan 105441]

Just now, GhostRider said:

I'm quite confident that I would not have been in attendance.

If you're white, there's a 33% chance you're wrong.  

As DDD Dad observed, it's amazing what shitheels we can be when social and legal norms allow for it and even encourage it.

Nobody would have attended a lynching.

Nobody would have supported the Nazi regime.

Yet umpteen people did exactly those things.  We're some evil mofos, and it's right there beneath the surface.  It doesn't take a whole lot to bring it right back out. Civilization is a thin veneer over barbarism.  Denying that and pretending otherwise is how we end up in the shit all over again.

[GhostRider 169]

[d2o 1602]

On 4/26/2018 at 8:26 PM, SubliminalHorn said:

I would visit it if it weren’t in Ala-fucking-bama 

I'm definitely planning a trip soon and maybe again when my son is old enough to know what he is seeing.

[LongestHorn 759]

At peak, per Wiki, Waco lynch crowd was 15,000 people, possibly because lunch time for those who were working on a Monday.  But also some school children were on recess taking Jesse's teeth out of his charred skull to keep.  A little trophy.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

What does that make someone like Jeffers?  Brisket makes a very fair point about the nature of peer pressure and socially acceptable conduct having an impact.  One need only view the current rise in hate speech over the last few years to see that normalizing hate will bring people's hidden fears and prejudices to the surface.

Sure, some have truly changed their views in the face of the horrors, but sadly many simply wait for the opportunity to see that others share their views and will allow them to be voiced (or worse acted upon--e.g., Charlottesville).

To end the thread drift, this memorial was moving to me just looking at the photos in the NY Times article.  I have no desire ever to travel to Montgomery, but like turning Lee's family homestead into Arlington National Cemetery, a memorial like this needed to be placed in the heart of KKK land.

 

Brisket doesn’t make a good point. He would, but he got personal with futureman from the jump, just for fucking around. It’s totally fair game to label someone a racist or shitheel or accuse them of being would-be lynchers or whatever simply if they get under your skin. It’s pathetic. 

I’ll give Brisket this - his point should have made us all think. His tactics were so deplorable, though, that it’s hard to see past his emotional titbaby-ness, and whatever “very fair point” gets totally lost. 

[NameAlreadyInUse 5129]

2 things...all of those people here saying for 100% sure they wouldn't have attended reminded me of Eddie Murphy's bit about his black friends all saying they would never have been slaves.  The established social order is a fucking powerful beast.  I find the very idea of treating people differently because of their skin color so repugnant that its hard for me to fathom slavery or lynchings, but I can't say for sure that I wouldn't have been in a crowd 60 years ago to witness a lynching.  

And, I didn't look at this thread originally because I have some prejudice of my own to deal with.  I actually thought this was a memorial to celebrate lynchings, since it was being built in Alabama.  I'm going to work on trying to be better at not doing that shit.  I hope all of us can work on that.

 

[Guest]

Knowing my ancestors and myself the way I do, I find it very hard to believe that I would have attended a lynching. 

[Brisketexan 105441]

41 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Knowing my ancestors and myself the way I do, I find it very hard to believe that I would have attended a lynching. 

I had white ancestors who lived in South Louisiana for over a century.

I find it very hard to believe that at least one person in that lineage WOULDN'T have attended a lynching.  And had I been among that family, in that time and place, I might have as well.  Because I can be honest with myself.

Our tribal, animal self is closer to the surface than we EVER want to acknowledge.  But that means that it's most important to acknowledge that it's there -- denial hurts us, and allows the evil within to rear its ugly head without real resistance.

The Brisket of today wouldn't attend a lynching.  Hell, I'd hope I'd actually put myself at risk to stop it.  But I am a product of the current times, my education, socialization, and the modern law.  1880 Brisket might have been a totally different animal.

[Guest]

Well I’m glad you know future as well as 1880 Brisket. As for me, I nearly certain** I wouldn’t. My dad and granddad wouldn’t. Not sure about my maternal granddad but seriously doubt it. 

Paternal grandad was born in ‘06. Probably a racist, but really just guessing there. But he also abhored crowds and drama. Those are traits that have been passed to my dad and I. I cannot envision 3 men who would never stop down for a car crash or a fire - except to help - that would think attending a man’s death, even if everyone KNEW the black man was guilty. 

**who ever really knows how one would react in another time. I have no idea how I’d react if I were put in some medieval war. No idea how I’d react to certain historical figures. But I’m almost certain I’d never attend a lynching. 

[PRONG HORN 3158]

 

9 hours ago, NIUHuskies said:

To fit into the racial hierarchy, they had to. Read:

 

They didn't choose where they were going to fit in. They weren't going to be equal to, or better than white, and they weren't going to be equal to, or lower than black.    it was natural selection if you will. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by PRONG HORN

[DDD Dad 14352]

2 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

Knowing my ancestors and myself the way I do, I find it very hard to believe that I would have attended a lynching. 

You’re an SAE right?

Glass houses yada yada. 

 

In all seriousness though, I think it is far too easy for us as adults in hindsight and hopefully enlightened by history to say we would not act that way. 

I know I wouldn’t have only because of my circumstances (would not have been in the South), but if circumstances were different and I were not of a minority or oppressed group I cannot say I wouldn’t have been swayed by pressure to act badly (or at least go along to get along). It is frightening to recognize but I think simply denying the possibility is ignoring human nature.

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by DDD Dad

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

You’re an SAE right?

Glass houses yada yada. 

 

In all seriousness though, I think it is far too easy for us as adults in hindsight and hopefully enlightened by history to say we would not act that way. 

I know I wouldn’t have only because of my circumstances (would not have been in the South), but if circumstances were different and I were not of a minority or oppressed group I cannot say I wouldn’t have been swayed by pressure to act badly (or at least go along to get along). It is frightening to recognize but I think simply denying the possibility is ignoring human nature.

 

 

 

Yes, SAE. Yes, I’ve been pressured to act badly. I just cannot see myself doing that. Too animalistic for any time period, particularly 100 years ago. I’d shy away, even if the times had me behaving worse than I would now. 

[fattyflattie 4638]

Y'all remember back when Brisket would have well thought out posts? Back before slinging shit over anyone who disagrees with him?  I remember.  

Get some help, man. 

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

The people that say they never would have attended one remind me of parents that say “my child would never do that”. You like to think that because it’s so much better than the alternative. I can’t say what I would have done. I hope I wouldn’t have but there is no way to know. I think most people in those pictures wouldn’t be massive racists if they were living in current times. The overall influence society can have on people is amazing. It’s why culture (and studying it) is so important.

[El Diablo 4232]

Lest we forget.

On May 9, 1930—88 years ago today—a mob stormed the Grayson County Courthouse in Sherman and lynched a black farmhand accused of raping a white woman. The Texas State Historical Association described the riot that ensued as one of the worst examples of racial violence during the Great Depression. A small detachment of Texas Rangers that included the legendary Frank Hamer was unable to stop the mob, which burned the courthouse and much of the community’s black business section. Gov. Dan Moody imposed martial law. Ultimately just 14 men were indicted on charges stemming from the mayhem, none of them for the lynching. Just two of the 14 were convicted, one of arson and one of rioting.

[DigglerontheHoof 21255]

On 4/30/2018 at 9:32 PM, Brisketexan said:

I had white ancestors who lived in South Louisiana for over a century.

I find it very hard to believe that at least one person in that lineage WOULDN'T have attended a lynching.  And had I been among that family, in that time and place, I might have as well.  Because I can be honest with myself.

Our tribal, animal self is closer to the surface than we EVER want to acknowledge.  But that means that it's most important to acknowledge that it's there -- denial hurts us, and allows the evil within to rear its ugly head without real resistance.

The Brisket of today wouldn't attend a lynching.  Hell, I'd hope I'd actually put myself at risk to stop it.  But I am a product of the current times, my education, socialization, and the modern law.  1880 Brisket might have been a totally different animal.

I think this is why I'm so fascinated w/ Nazi Germany.  It blows my mind what propaganda and group think can lead to.  A large part of my heritage is Germanic and one of the things that sends a chill up my spine is thinking if I lived in that time and space, I could've become some SS fanatic.  Hell, kids were brainwashed in the Hitler Youth and went on from there....terrifying shit.   But for the grace of God...

I was raised to think of everyone as equals.  I was lucky, in that my father was a vocal and firm opponent to racism and raised my sisters and I accordingly.  So there's no way I could see modern Diggler joining in that kind of activity but, if I was raised differently....

 

 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

Jesus.  I just read that Waco lynching wiki. What the hell is wrong with that town?  

The article mentions the town was the subject of international press 100 years ago because of it.  I remember people from Australia commenting to me about Koresh.  Everyone knows about the football team.  The basketball thing was less famous (only by comparison with the other things listed here, that is, it didn’t resonate globally). It has to be the worst city, by reputation, in the US.  

[Post Oak 20278]

I dont know about that but it is remarkable how much bad shit has happened here.  Mostly self inflicted.  

My theory is that it was somewhat insulated as a drive through I35 town that no one used to give much thought about. That allow unchecked negligence and ignorance fester and weave itself into the culture.  Because of that, excuses get made for everything from Jesse Washington to Art Briles and Dave Bliss.

 I assume there are similarities between Waco and Happy Valley but thats just a guess.

I was shocked to see Abel Reyna voted out in Feb.  Even today the Trib had an article about more cases being dropped in Twin Peaks shootout.

Honestly there is alot of blame to go around but i would place a large portion of the blame for the well deserved reputation of this city at the feet of entities.  The church and the newspaper.

 Im not going to go full CR on the church but my opinion of them is that they are complete hypocrites and it institutionalizes hypocrisy in many of its members.  They protested the building of a Hooters for fucks sake.

While the Trib will never be confused for WashPo they do a fine job of covering daily life in Waco.  They cover a lot of the good things happening (relative to Waco) and some of the bad.  But they were never interested in looking into the Baylor Fball team even though they were the closest to them. I cant believe that they never heard the rumors and theres no doubt in my mind because of that other women were hurt. Even after the stories broke they turned a blind eye to it.

They shouldve been the news breakers on this and they werent.  In some instances they were apologists. 

Newspapers have a responsibility to find the truth and hold people accountable.They failed their community.

I cant remember back to how they handled Dave Bliss or the cat killers but i assume it was probably with kid gloves as well.

 

 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11821]

23 minutes ago, Post Oak said:

I dont know about that but it is remarkable how much bad shit has happened here.  Mostly self inflicted.  

My theory is that it was somewhat insulated as a drive through I35 town that no one used to give much thought about. That allow unchecked negligence and ignorance fester and weave itself into the culture.  Because of that, excuses get made for everything from Jesse Washington to Art Briles and Dave Bliss.

 I assume there are similarities between Waco and Happy Valley but thats just a guess.

I was shocked to see Abel Reyna voted out in Feb.  Even today the Trib had an article about more cases being dropped in Twin Peaks shootout.

Honestly there is alot of blame to go around but i would place a large portion of the blame for the well deserved reputation of this city at the feet of entities.  The church and the newspaper.

 Im not going to go full CR on the church but my opinion of them is that they are complete hypocrites and it institutionalizes hypocrisy in many of its members.  They protested the building of a Hooters for fucks sake.

While the Trib will never be confused for WashPo they do a fine job of covering daily life in Waco.  They cover a lot of the good things happening (relative to Waco) and some of the bad.  But they were never interested in looking into the Baylor Fball team even though they were the closest to them. I cant believe that they never heard the rumors and theres no doubt in my mind because of that other women were hurt. Even after the stories broke they turned a blind eye to it.

They shouldve been the news breakers on this and they werent.  In some instances they were apologists. 

Newspapers have a responsibility to find the truth and hold people accountable.They failed their community.

I cant remember back to how they handled Dave Bliss or the cat killers but i assume it was probably with kid gloves as well.

 

 

Cotton and baptists.  The whole area around Waco was originally a plantation economy due to cotton, and had a large population of slaves.  After the Civil War, the town boomed, but read this excerpt from Texas Handbook.  In short militant racists and religious fundamentalists (mostly Baptists) controlled the area and their mindset doesn't go away quickly or completely.  Plus it was the county seat, which means any criminals were taken their for trial (thus more lynching opportunities).

Quote

Between 1900 and 1930 the racial composition of the city changed as rural blacks moved to Waco in search of better jobs and educational opportunities. By the 1920s a black middle class had begun to appear in the city. Perhaps partially in response to this development, Waco became a center of Ku Klux Klan activity and influence during the 1920s. Lynchings had occurred in Waco in 1905, 1915, and 1916, and on at least one occasion the black victim was publicly burned in the town square; in the 1920s mobs of white citizens hanged or burned other blacks as well. In 1923 more than 2,000 Klansmen paraded through the city, and the organization boycotted businesses of people unsympathetic with its agenda. Many of Waco's business and political leaders at least implicitly supported the Klan during this period, and one member claimed that the Klan "controlled every office in the city of Waco" during the 1920s.

 

[Post Oak 20278]

49 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Cotton and baptists.  The whole area around Waco was originally a plantation economy due to cotton, and had a large population of slaves.  After the Civil War, the town boomed, but read this excerpt from Texas Handbook.  In short militant racists and religious fundamentalists (mostly Baptists) controlled the area and their mindset doesn't go away quickly or completely.  Plus it was the county seat, which means any criminals were taken their for trial (thus more lynching opportunities).

 

Never thought about the cotton angle and i shouldve

[PRONG HORN 3158]

6 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I think this is why I'm so fascinated w/ Nazi Germany.  It blows my mind what propaganda and group think can lead to.  A large part of my heritage is Germanic and one of the things that sends a chill up my spine is thinking if I lived in that time and space, I could've become some SS fanatic.  Hell, kids were brainwashed in the Hitler Youth and went on from there....terrifying shit.   But for the grace of God...

I was raised to think of everyone as equals.  I was lucky, in that my father was a vocal and firm opponent to racism and raised my sisters and I accordingly.  So there's no way I could see modern Diggler joining in that kind of activity but, if I was raised differently....

 

 

 

Dude wut?  You do still live in that time and space.  It's only been three or four generations since then.  The survival instincts that lead to the paranoia of the Nazis is still absolutely alive and well (thriving) in all of us.  It's different now because we don't send train loads of people to camps but we are still the same.  Propaganda and group think is stronger than ever right now on a global scale.  I'm not even sure we as humans have peaked yet in that department.  Speaking of propaganda and group think, do we evolve completely new functions to replace them?  Or just refine and sharpen?  Probably a little of both.  I guess to me the interesting part is if we are capable of refining and sharpening our "propaganda/group think" habits into positive attributes.