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25th Amendment- 2nd Impeachment

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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burntorangebongos

burntorangebongos 10681

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The 25th process starts with a letter from Pence and 8 cabinet people saying president not fit to serve. It goes to Congress, the president has 4 days to say "yes I am" in a letter to congress. Then Pence and the cabinet write a second letter and say "no you are not fit" and send it to congress. Congress has 20 days to verify and debate situation. In that time, the president is stripped of his powers and waits the result. So in essence, it is the quickest way to take the powers from him. They would go to Pence until the inauguration when he is out of power anyway. 

I'm pretty sure impeachment takes longer unless Trump resigns because he doesn't want to be the only guy impeached twice. Plus maybe he would do it if Pence pardons him for the insurrection incitement, etc.

Him resigning is what needs to happen. Full court press from everyone. Graham needs to shut up or get steam rolled if he protects him. Trump might be more embarrassed by the 25th for being unfit and might resign before the letter gets to Congress or before the 2nd letter. 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89447

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1 hour ago, Js1 said:

I agree.

Holy fuck was Pence pissed yesterday.  Donald Trump put his life in danger - it's one thing to embarrass him, cuck him, spit on him, tie him up and use his asshole, but Trump unleashed an angry mob on the building he was in. 

Pence was pissed because apparently Pence's wife and daughter were at the Capitol as well, to observe the ceremony.  Pence's daughter even went on twitter about it.

 

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29256

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2 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

The 25th process starts with a letter from Pence and 8 cabinet people saying president not fit to serve. It goes to Congress, the president has 4 days to say "yes I am" in a letter to congress. Then Pence and the cabinet write a second letter and say "no you are not fit" and send it to congress. Congress has 20 days to verify and debate situation. In that time, the president is stripped of his powers and waits the result. So in essence, it is the quickest way to take the powers from him. They would go to Pence until the inauguration when he is out of power anyway. 

I'm pretty sure impeachment takes longer unless Trump resigns because he doesn't want to be the only guy impeached twice. Plus maybe he would do it if Pence pardons him for the insurrection incitement, etc.

Him resigning is what needs to happen. Full court press from everyone. Graham needs to shut up or get steam rolled if he protects him. Trump might be more embarrassed by the 25th for being unfit and might resign before the letter gets to Congress or before the 2nd letter. 

Trump ain't resigning now. He's going to invoke the Insurrection Act and order the military to arrest Congress. Then we get the fun of seeing if anyone in the military will try to follow that order.

He will never stop unless someone stops him. Congress can impeach and remove him in a half hour if they want to do so. 

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formermav43

formermav43 4599

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4 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

The 25th process starts with a letter from Pence and 8 cabinet people saying president not fit to serve. It goes to Congress, the president has 4 days to say "yes I am" in a letter to congress. Then Pence and the cabinet write a second letter and say "no you are not fit" and send it to congress. Congress has 20 days to verify and debate situation. In that time, the president is stripped of his powers and waits the result. So in essence, it is the quickest way to take the powers from him. They would go to Pence until the inauguration when he is out of power anyway. 

I'm pretty sure impeachment takes longer unless Trump resigns because he doesn't want to be the only guy impeached twice. Plus maybe he would do it if Pence pardons him for the insurrection incitement, etc.

Him resigning is what needs to happen. Full court press from everyone. Graham needs to shut up or get steam rolled if he protects him. Trump might be more embarrassed by the 25th for being unfit and might resign before the letter gets to Congress or before the 2nd letter. 

It may be faster, but it's not the proper way. It's for incapacitation, not an alternative, express lane to impeachment. Congress needs to step up and do their job.

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formermav43

formermav43 4599

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2 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

How is being crazy not an incapacitation?

I don't care what they do to pull the power from him.

Impeachment moving fast with repubs around doesn't seem realistic. But maybe threaten to fuck them up if they squeal? Censorship and commitee assignments being the best tools to use. Maybe expulsion threats? 

 

That's a bad precedent. You want unelected cabinet members, without any mental health expertise, determining that he's crazy? I'm not arguing that he isn't, but that's an abuse of the intention of the amendment. And I think we should be wary by now of how these sorts of actions can have unintended consequences down the road.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29256

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6 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

How is being crazy not an incapacitation?

I don't care what they do to pull the power from him.

Impeachment moving fast with repubs around doesn't seem realistic. But maybe threaten to fuck them up if they squeal? Censorship and commitee assignments being the best tools to use. Maybe expulsion threats? 

 

Who do you think makes up his cabinet?

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104624

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1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

"This administration doesn't condone violence and what happened yesterday is against everything we stand for here."

"So, we're branding ANTIFA a terrorist organization and declaring martial law to arrest all of them, because ANTIFA attacked our beautiful, beautiful capitol."

FIF what they meant.

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

Trump ain't resigning now. He's going to invoke the Insurrection Act and order the military to arrest Congress. Then we get the fun of seeing if anyone in the military will try to follow that order.

He will never stop unless someone stops him. Congress can impeach and remove him in a half hour if they want to do so. 

He is literally insane. Not hyperbole -- he is mentally unhinged, and should not be trusted with anything so much as a driver's license.  Yet we are trusting him with the most powerful arsenal in the history of humanity.  And we now have an insane, wounded, cornered dog.

What will a dog like that do?

It's not exactly a mystery.  The chances of more people dying -- maybe a LOT more -- are unacceptably high.  We are playing Russian Roulette with a six-shooter with 4 fucking rounds in it.  That's a foolish fucking game.

59 minutes ago, WBT said:

Impeachment only takes as long as congress wants it to take.

Exactly.

Congress can and should do its job.  Remove him.  Do it tonight.  A single article can be drafted and passed in a matter of an hour or two.  The Senate can immediately convene to a trial -- Roberts can come down and preside in his PJs, IDGAF.  Hear an hour or so of evidence.  Convict.  Then take up a motion to ban him from ever holding office again.  Pass it.  Then message the guys with the football to get the fuck away from Trump, and shuttle Pence to the WH immediately.

History is going to tell us that humanity was at the crisis point multiple times in these past few days.....I hope.  The other alternative is that history won't have to tell us shit about the crisis point, the body count will.

We are in as dangerous a situation as the Cuban Missile Crisis.  And most of us are too fucking dumb, or purposefully in denial, to realize it.

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HOOKEM4

HOOKEM4 5023

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4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

"So, we're branding ANTIFA a terrorist organization and declaring martial law to arrest all of them, because ANTIFA attacked our beautiful, beautiful capitol."

FIF what they meant.

He is literally insane. Not hyperbole -- he is mentally unhinged, and should not be trusted with anything so much as a driver's license.  Yet we are trusting him with the most powerful arsenal in the history of humanity.  And we now have an insane, wounded, cornered dog.

What will a dog like that do?

It's not exactly a mystery.  The chances of more people dying -- maybe a LOT more -- are unacceptably high.  We are playing Russian Roulette with a six-shooter with 4 fucking rounds in it.  That's a foolish fucking game.

Exactly.

Congress can and should do its job.  Remove him.  Do it tonight.  A single article can be drafted and passed in a matter of an hour or two.  The Senate can immediately convene to a trial -- Roberts can come down and preside in his PJs, IDGAF.  Hear an hour or so of evidence.  Convict.  Then take up a motion to ban him from ever holding office again.  Pass it.  Then message the guys with the football to get the fuck away from Trump, and shuttle Pence to the WH immediately.

History is going to tell us that humanity was at the crisis point multiple times in these past few days.....I hope.  The other alternative is that history won't have to tell us shit about the crisis point, the body count will.

We are in as dangerous a situation as the Cuban Missile Crisis.  And most of us are too fucking dumb, or purposefully in denial, to realize it.

Look, I feel safe. The enemy wears flair. I can handle that easily. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104624

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1 minute ago, HOOKEM4 said:

Look, I feel safe. The enemy wears flair. I can handle that easily. 

The enemy isn't the self-nut-tasing idiots (well, not JUST them).  The enemy is the literal crazy person with access to nuclear weapons.  All of humanity is in grave danger until January 20th.

(Grave danger?  Is there any other kind?)

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HOOKEM4

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1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

The enemy isn't the self-nut-tasing idiots (well, not JUST them).  The enemy is the literal crazy person with access to nuclear weapons.  All of humanity is in grave danger until January 20th.

(Grave danger?  Is there any other kind?)

I am right there with you. He needs to go asap. At this point I am not going to give myself a second subdural hemorrhage over it though. Don't kill yourself on things you can't control. Control the things you can.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

What are they waiting for?  Pence already said no on the 25th.

I agree.  This is not time to stand by. Trump was forced to make his speech tonight by powerful republican interests. He doesn’t mean what he said in the least. He must be impeached so that the threat of senate removal hangs over his fat ass until January 20. If that happens, he won’t do jack shit in between. If they don’t impeach, he will try something. Guaranteed. 

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Born to Run

Born to Run 6567

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The goal here is not to get the GOP Senators to vote to remove but to get them to compel Trump to resign with the credible threat of a successful vote to remove.  Theoretically, the Senate should never vote to convict a President because resignation is always the better exit ramp. 
Also you tie up all of trump's focus and grievance in one safe area. Him bitching about another fake witch hunt for two weeks is our best path.
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Mole

Mole 4320

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There’s a reasonable case that his status as a dangerous lunatic qualifies for the 25th, but the precedent of using claims of mental illness to remove people from power seems really dangerous. Weaponizing claims of mental illness against political rivals is also a terrifying possibility.

He’s a danger to everyone on earth, but the better way long term is to use the normal route of impeachment. Of course, if the alternative is a mass death event concurrent with our ongoing mass death event, then precedent might not seem as important.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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Pence refused Pelosi and Schumer’s call today because the woodshedding of DJT was in process. He wanted to see if it worked. It temporarily did. For now anyway. 

So the 25th is out for now. That means he must be impeached to give the threat of senate removal a serious threat to his lizard pea brain so that president shitstain doesn’t try anything else. This is easily the best least dangerous play. The senate only removes him if he tries something else. Which means as a result he wont. The threat must be there though or he will. His words tonight are meaningless. 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31282

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3 hours ago, burntorangebongos said:

The 25th process starts with a letter from Pence and 8 cabinet people saying president not fit to serve. It goes to Congress, the president has 4 days to say "yes I am" in a letter to congress. Then Pence and the cabinet write a second letter and say "no you are not fit" and send it to congress. Congress has 20 days to verify and debate situation. In that time, the president is stripped of his powers and waits the result. So in essence, it is the quickest way to take the powers from him. They would go to Pence until the inauguration when he is out of power anyway. 

I'm pretty sure impeachment takes longer unless Trump resigns because he doesn't want to be the only guy impeached twice. Plus maybe he would do it if Pence pardons him for the insurrection incitement, etc.

Him resigning is what needs to happen. Full court press from everyone. Graham needs to shut up or get steam rolled if he protects him. Trump might be more embarrassed by the 25th for being unfit and might resign before the letter gets to Congress or before the 2nd letter. 

Good synopsis.  The 25th is really about dealing with an incapacitated President.  The "safeguards" are there to make sure it isn't used "tactically."  

It's not really about removal from office for cause, although that's the result.

Impeachment, the House part, doesn't have to take that much time if they can restrain themselves from bloviating about it in massive hearings.  I suppose some of that may be necessary to satisfy ideas of "due process," which don't literally apply.

If the idea is to drop a political dooky bomb on the Senate, then impeachment can be done in a week.

Even getting it to a vote in the Senate would likely be a lengthy process, though, because McConnell.

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