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2021 European soccer megathread

Jive Turkey

By Jive Turkey
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G650
G650

I mean if the Super League crashes AND Madrid goes broke, I'm not sure how much more of a win/win you can have.

Cheeseweasel
Cheeseweasel

2031: Bayern Munich wins their 9th consecutive Champions League defeating West Brom 14-0...

Cheeseweasel
Cheeseweasel

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PittsburghTiger

PittsburghTiger 6192

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Tons of great commentary on SkySports on the YouTube 

My Godson, who plays for Gladbach, thinks Super League is really dumb and should not happen.

Do these other leagues have salary caps? I know Bayern last year paid more in salary to the five guys on the bench than Schalke paid to its whole team. My German cousin’s husband wrote a paper saying how the Bundesliga needed a salary cap like the NFL has.

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mdmost

mdmost 43010

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I'd imagine Pep would bolt if UCL is out of the question for him. What more does he have to prove at City?

There's massive existing inequities in most soccer leagues. FIFA and UEFA suck and are corrupt. But the answer to that is reform them. Use your platforms and call for changes. It's not, oh well then let's just create an equally unfair and corrupt system that consolidates wealth with 12 clubs and eliminates any form of the meritocracy that makes promotion, relegation, and European qualifications worth watching. Yeah, it takes money, talent, and damn great bit of luck to unseat the teams currently ruling each league. That also why it makes these matches so great. That's all gone if there's no threat of not making it into or out of something. 

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Captain Ron

Captain Ron 12885

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Jive Turkey said:

 

1 hour ago, G650 said:

Sounds like Chelsea and City are still on the fence.

 

 

 

they must be taking the threat of being kicked out of the Champions League semis pretty damn serious.

 

Mike Goodman (in between of pointing out what is wrong with A LOT of bad soccer takes on twitter) did have this point:

He followed that tweet up with a better explanation, which kind of rings true.

Taking this to the Chelsea/City talk - being kicked out of the CL, would they forfeit all of their CL money? That's a big hit for any club.

 

BTW - if you want to read some really bad soccer takes, hit his feed up, because a lot of people that really don't understand European soccer or the real impact of this on the leagues or smaller clubs in the leagues.

 

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 10892

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Posted (edited)

https://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Serie-A/18-04-2021/superlega-uefa-prepara-causa-50-miliardi-410266994566.shtml

Super League, UEFA prepares a 50 billion lawsuit. And out who participates Football: all the news 190 In agreement with leagues and federations across Europe, Nyon is staging a legal battle against clubs who want to break away from the system to create an alternative one and cancel football as we know it.

At Uefa they have not yet understood how far the threat of "independence" clubs can go, but they have a ready response to the Super League that the big clubs would be ready to create immediately, from 2022, just as they are negotiating the renewal of the Champions League. Unbelievable. What is certain is that football as we know it is in danger. Goodbye leagues, cups, perhaps even national ones. All this for a dozen clubs in search of immediate money, to "Americanize" a system that has been operating for a century of totally different principles, is sport and not entertainment.

Out of clubs and players!" The legal office of Nyon, also in agreement with leagues and federations from all over Europe, is working on a 50/60 billion lawsuit against all the teams that want to separate from the system to create an alternative and private one (with all the consequences of case on European leagues and cups). And from Uefa a joint statement with the English Football Association, the Premier, the Spanish Football Association, LaLiga, the FIGC and the Lega di A was launched to remind: "Those who participate are out". Asking to join the fight against "a cynical project in the interest of a few clubs". And remembering that not only the clubs would be out of it all, but also the players. Not the last press release of the day: the ECA is expected, siding with UEFA, even against its president Agnelli. Florentino project The difficult day was yesterday, Saturday, when relations between UEFA and the ECA suddenly became complicated. Strange, forty-eight hours before the Executive that tomorrow would have approved the new Champions format from 2024 ... It soon turned out that the Florentino project, that of the Super League, which had remained dormant in the last days of the negotiations, has re-emerged. Whether as a weapon of blackmail or something else, no one knows. On the other hand, the former president of Barcelona, Bartomeu, said a few months ago "I signed for the Super League ...", embarrassing the other participants forced to come out. Something has been "hatching" for some time.

twelve signatures, DAZN denies There are eleven signatories, apparently. Six English: United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea and City. Three Spaniards: Real, Barcelona, Atletico. Three Italians: Juve, Inter and Milan. Not yet Psg, Bayern (decisive opponent) and City, which would be hesitating. The goal would be to reach a 20-team championship. That of Florentino Perez, in fact. The rumor had spread that the owner of Dazn had offered to broadcast the games in exchange for 3.5 billion for an unspecified number of years, but yesterday the denial came from the broadcast: "We are not behind the project". And the rumors of Arab and American funds reappear. Covid too ... Of course, the race for the Superlega - which Florentino did not think would come so soon - is linked to the Covid crisis that has drained the coffers of the clubs or increased the debt. We need money right away. Only international funds, TV channels, can give them. This explains the attitude of Agnelli who on the one hand treated the new Champions as ECA president ("The ideal Champions model" he said at the conference), on the other hand he treated the Super League for Juve. Friends and betrayals A rift by now deep with UEFA and also personally between Agnelli and Ceferin, former friends. To the Uefa president it seemed like a betrayal. But a break also with the ECA because, excluding the "separatists", the whole organization was also unaware of these maneuvers. That's why the ECA will now ask him for an explanation. On the other hand, this has brought the former enemies Ceferin-Infantino, that is Uefa and Fifa, closer together, who have felt against the common enemy. Even Infantino, long accused of being behind a Super League (but he wants "his of him" Club World Cup), will make a statement against the separatists during the Congress. Gravina also replies And now? At Uefa they always hope that everything will remain only as a threat to have more and more, even more, until the system breaks down. In any case, tomorrow the Executive will not stop the approval of the Champions League, and it is difficult for Andrea Agnelli to attend the meeting after the turnaround. Also in Montreux is the FIGC president, Gabriele Gravina, who will be elected to the Executive on Tuesday. He is worried about the situation: "We have always been against the Super League". The threat from Fifa and Uefa, however, is clear: whoever leaves the system is out of the system, out of the leagues, out of the cups. Sorry to think that a dozen clubs can change the world for their interests and ruin the best toy there is.

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 10892

Posted
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https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/19/revealed-unpublished-super-league-document-justifying-breakaway

Exclusive by Sean Ingle

@seaningle

Mon 19 Apr 2021 13.25 EDT

Last modified on Mon 19 Apr 2021 19.01 EDT

The Guardian has uncovered an unpublished European Super League document in the hidden code of its new website which seeks to justify the controversial breakaway by saying it will give fans “what they want”.

In comments that will raise eyebrows, it also claims the breakaway will offer “a sustainable and competitive environment for the whole football pyramid” – by providing more than three times the level of solidarity payments to smaller clubs than currently exist. It also reveals that the clubs are considering intriguing new ideas, including “technology-enhanced rule implementation” that are not backed by the authorities, although it does not go into details. But it seems to drastically underestimate the public criticism of the proposals. “Unanimity of view is rarely the case where fundamental change is involved,” it says. “We welcome this debate as sport is all about passion and differences of opinion are an essential part of being a fan. But in the end, we are confident that when fans are welcomed back into the stadiums and the first Super League matches are played, fans will enjoy the greatest competition club football has ever seen.”

That such a document was so easily discovered by someone with little specialist knowledge of coding will be embarrassing to the European Super League. However, its underlying message is that the 12 clubs – including six from the Premier League – had no choice but to act because of the financial costs they were facing. Citing Covid, it warns that the accumulated losses of top-level clubs exceed €5bn (£4.3bn). “The value of live media rights is stagnating or declining as some of our competitions fail to meet the needs of fans and new generations seek entertainment in ways which didn’t exist 10 years ago,” it says.

[Image: European Super League: what does it mean for football? – video explainer]

03:19

European Super League: what does it mean for football? – video explainer

“The weaknesses in the foundations of football have been known for many years, Covid simply exposed their severity and none of the game’s stakeholders have come up with a solution. Inaction is no longer an option.”

When creating the Super League, the document says the 12 breakaway clubs had “four guiding principles”:

Exceed fan expectations: “Our aim is to deliver to fans the best football possible while providing access for qualifying clubs to ensure the vibrancy of the competition and to maintain a strong commitment to the principle of sporting merit.”

Solidarity and sustainability: including “affordable ticket prices” and “reinvestment into the football pyramid via ongoing and substantial solidarity payments”. The document adds: “Super League solidarity payments will grow automatically with overall league revenues and will be more than three times higher than payments coming from the current European championship.”

Commitment to domestic leagues: “The new Super League has been designed around the principle of maintaining strong and vibrant local leagues and we will continue to compete each weekend in our national competitions as we always have.”

Government pledges to stop English clubs joining European Super League

Read more

Readiness to change: “The Super League ownership and governance structure is designed to allow us to rapidly adopt and incorporate new ideas into the competition. Whether it’s changes in live match distribution formats, technology-enhanced rule implementation or player development, we can no longer rely on external bodies to drive progress in these areas.”

The document says that while Uefa and the Premier League have made “good faith” attempts to improve things, fundamental change is needed. “It is a new format that will sustain the drama, passion and most importantly, the unpredictability that is the lifeblood of our sport,” the document claims. “We believe it will be the most dynamic and competitive sports league in the world.

“At its heart, this is a comprehensive solution to the critical issues facing the sport. It starts with the fans of the game, giving them what they want and deserve; the best players and the world’s top clubs competing with each other throughout the year.”

The Super League did not comment when the Guardian contacted but it later hid the code after we published the story.

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Napoleon

Napoleon 8691

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Posted

If the players who participate in the Super League are then banned from EUFA & FIFA events, this thing will be a Seniors League. 

Italy, Spain, England, Brazil, Argentina, and likely France would not be able to make it out of qualifying with what remained of their national teams for World Cup qualifying. 

Yeah, THAT would go over well. 😂

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 10892

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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56807515

buried in a bunch of stuff we already know:

Downing Street said ministers were looking at a "range of options", including a German-style system of fan ownership of clubs and clawing back coronavirus support loans.

But Labour urged ministers to do more, with shadow culture secretary Jo Stevens saying it was "time for the government to get off the subs bench and show some leadership on the pitch because we need reform of football".

She added: "It's not as if there's been a blockage here in Parliament preventing the government from taking action to sort the problems out."

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Schulz2.0

Schulz2.0 28981

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

Tons of great commentary on SkySports on the YouTube 

My Godson, who plays for Gladbach, thinks Super League is really dumb and should not happen.

Do these other leagues have salary caps? I know Bayern last year paid more in salary to the five guys on the bench than Schalke paid to its whole team. My German cousin’s husband wrote a paper saying how the Bundesliga needed a salary cap like the NFL has.

Salary caps are illegal under European Union labor laws. There are probably loopholes to try and work around that, but then they're looking at stuff like lawsuits for colluding to depress wages.

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26438

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, NoctambulantBrobdingnagian said:

the second Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United, and Tottenham get relegated to the Championship, the Championship becomes the Premier League

And with only 3 (potentially) moving up, you are going to have three in there for 2 years or more.

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Speedtrucker

Speedtrucker 2071

Posted
Posted
If the players who participate in the Super League are then banned from EUFA & FIFA events, this thing will be a Seniors League. 
Italy, Spain, England, Brazil, Argentina, and likely France would not be able to make it out of qualifying with what remained of their national teams for World Cup qualifying. 
Yeah, THAT would go over well.

Long play by American money to help the USMNT win a world cup in the next decade?!?

Bam, I’m on board with ESL now! I knew I was OK with Florentino Perez still leading my Real Madrid
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alincoln

alincoln 2381

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Posted
1 minute ago, midtown said:

Seems more and more like this will end up with a compromise of some sorts.   Both sides seem to have some decent chips in their stack. 

Kill the indefensible and irrelevant Nations League and Club World Cup and place control of the CL and the distribution of its proceeds in the hands of the Big 5 leagues (not just a cadre of the super clubs) instead of UEFA bureaucrats.  UEFA and FIFA should manage their own legitimate international competitions (Euros and WC) but their oversight and control over club football should be greatly diminished.  Additional layers of bureaucratic middlemen increase inefficiency, waste and corruption, but that is the European way.

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Captain Ron

Captain Ron 12885

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Posted
45 minutes ago, alincoln said:

Kill the indefensible and irrelevant Nations League and Club World Cup and place control of the CL and the distribution of its proceeds in the hands of the Big 5 leagues (not just a cadre of the super clubs) instead of UEFA bureaucrats.  UEFA and FIFA should manage their own legitimate international competitions (Euros and WC) but their oversight and control over club football should be greatly diminished.  Additional layers of bureaucratic middlemen increase inefficiency, waste and corruption, but that is the European way.

I'm not sure how UEFA doesn't have some sort of stake in the Champions League. They are the only link between the national football associations. That makes sense.

I don't disagree that the Nations League is dumb, and the Club World Cup is pretty silly as a whole (but only because it doesn't have the prestige).

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 10892

Posted
Posted (edited)

@Firemans4Horn re: uefa & fifa are evil

and all the other confederations were just as bad over the last 30 years as the money got big.

and all governing entities worldwide have manipulated their competitions, but they have never removed the concept of jeopardy.

only in the US is jeopardy not entrenched in the culture and competitions.  and i think this boondoggle has finally crystalized why US national teams spontaneously combust every 3rd major competiton.... the culture and the system does not have jeopardy.  but that's another topic for another day.

Edited by Hagbard Celine
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WBT

WBT 20638

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Hagbard Celine said:

No.10 threatening to go hard....

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56810962

skysports on msnbc in 20 minutes

Quote

And on Monday, the Duke of Cambridge, who is president of the Football Association, said he shared fans' concerns about "the damage it risks causing to the game we love".

In case you weren't sure, as I wasn't, the Duke of Cambridge is Prince William.  Stupid double-talking limeys.

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WBT

WBT 20638

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Posted

As a break from Super League talk, this was a good read:

https://www.theringer.com/2021/4/16/22386450/el-clasico-marathon-decade-real-madrid-barcelona

Spoiler

Chaos, Violence, and Glory at El ClĂĄsico

Ten years ago, Real Madrid and Barcelona played four games in 18 days. It was thrilling and exhausting, beautiful and ugly, a brief period when the world’s biggest rivalry reached some of its highest—and lowest—points in its history.

By Ryan Hunn  Apr 16, 2021, 6:10am EDT
 

Classico_marathon_getty_ringer.0.jpegGetty Images/Ringer illustration

It was the best of times; it was the worst of times.

Ten years ago, Barcelona and Real Madrid embarked on an unprecedented period in their rivalry, playing four Clåsicos in 18 days: one La Liga matchup, a Copa del Rey final, and two legs in the Champions League semifinal. When it began, Madrid trailed Barcelona in the league; they had not won a Copa Del Rey in 18 years, and were in desperate pursuit of La Décima, their long-awaited 10th European Cup.

Usually, one would attempt to refrain from straying into hyperbole when revisiting classic matches, but it’s impossible in this instance. The period between April 16, 2011, and May 3, 2011 was and most likely will always be the closest football will get to an NBA Finals playoff series.


The Guardian’s Sid Lowe described the plot as “four battles,one war.” It was almost unimaginable, with perfect timing and unparalleled casting: a tale of two cities, two giants with competing ideologies, directly opposed in a conflict that stretched far back in time and well beyond the green grass and white lines. If a writer had presented it to you as a screenplay, you’d be forgiven for thinking it was all a bit too on the nose—too much narrative, too much at stake.

At the time, Pep Guardiola was on his way to turning the Catalans into arguably the greatest club side in history. Barcelona won the treble in his first season in 2009, and Lionel Messi had won his first Ballon d’Or later that year, at 22 years old. JosĂ© Mourinho arrived at Madrid in 2010 with a simple objective: take down Guardiola and Barcelona. Mourinho had the experience; his Inter Milan side beat Barcelona in the Champions League in 2010 en route to a treble, the first and only for an Italian side. And he had history with Barcelona; he coached under Bobby Robson there early in his career and wanted the job before it was given to Guardiola.

Under these two coaches, Barcelona and Madrid took their rivalry beyond anyone’s wildest dreams—or fears. They represented two extremes engaging in a showdown for football’s soul. Barcelona were relentless—passing, moving, and reinventing our understanding of football before our very eyes with its starting lineup filled with La Masia graduates. Real Madrid were an immaculately designed vehicle of riches, boasting the most expensive player in the world in Cristiano Ronaldo.

El Clásico had already become the biggest club fixture in the world prior to this period, but these four matches elevated it to something else entirely. They took place in the shadow of Barcelona’s 5-0 thrashing of Madrid at Camp Nou earlier in the season, Barcelona’s biggest win since 1994, and a match Mourinho called the “biggest defeat of his career.” He was right based on the scoreline and in the stature of the loss—he was not brought to Madrid to oversee such a humiliation. Sergio Ramos was sent off late in the game, a preview of what would come in the spring. Mourinho knew that Real Madrid couldn’t beat Barcelona purely on footballing terms, despite having the likes of Ronaldo, Karim Benzema, Ángel Di María, Mesut Özil, and Kaká at his disposal. Mourinho knew that to succeed, he would have to take Madrid to a far darker place.

The first of the four matches came six months after that 5-0 defeat and it took less than 10 seconds for the game’s first foul, when Benzema brought down Sergio Busquets, setting a fitting tone for the next 400 minutes of game play. The jeers—yet to die down from the opening whistle—grew more piercing. Misplaced passes from the legendary pairing of Xavi and AndrĂ©s Iniesta, by Messi, by everyone. The opening 10 minutes were feverish, enthralling, unrivaled elite-level chaos.

But if the intensity was high in the first half, it ramped up in the second. RaĂșl Albiol was given a red card after bringing down David Villa in the Real Madrid box, and Messi converted the penalty, his 30th goal in 29 league games. First blood, Barcelona. Ronaldo leveled the score at 1-1 with a penalty of his own with 10 minutes remaining and that’s how the game would end. Real Madrid had stopped their run of five consecutive El ClĂĄsico defeats, but the league was gone, and they knew it. But there were still three more games against Barcelona.

There was a sense of exhaustion after the game, from the players to the managers and even the press. How could this go on for another 17 days? Mourinho was criticized for his defensive approach. Even Los Blancos legend Alfredo di StĂ©fano weighed in, praising Barcelona and marveling at how they “play football and dance,” while accusing his beloved Madrid of being “a team without personality.” Barcelona registered 76 percent possession at the BernabĂ©u. Mourinho blamed the referee.

Real Madrid won the next game four days later in the Copa del Rey final thanks to a Ronaldo header in extra time at the Mestalla Stadium in Valencia, a neutral site, with fans from both teams in attendance. It was arguably the most relentless game of the series with a cacophony of boos, jeers, chants, and cheers for 120 minutes. Mourinho had his win, and Real Madrid had their Copa del Rey trophy, which Sergio Ramos dropped under a bus.

Then came the Champions League first leg and that’s when it happened: Guardiola stepped into his pre-match press conference and launched into a composed but vicious tirade directed at Mourinho. The only surprise was that it had taken until late April for Guardiola to respond to Mourinho’s taunts; his remarks that day served as the final break in their relationship. Mourinho had previously accused Pep of being the only member of a group of coaches to criticize a referee for making the right decision. Guardiola finally snapped. “Tomorrow at 8.45 p.m. we will meet each other on the pitch. Off the pitch he has won all year. He can have his personal Champions League outside the field. Fine. Let him enjoy it, I’ll give him that,” Guardiola said.

His comments got a reaction: Barça won the game 2-0, and Mourinho and Pepe were sent off, along with Barcelona reserve goalkeeper JosĂ© Manuel Pinto, who was punished for his part in a bench-clearing brawl between both squads. After the game, it was Mourinho’s turn to fire back. He launched into another tirade, accusing the referees of bias in favor of Barcelona. “If I tell UEFA what I really think and feel, my career would end now,” he said, before taking aim at Guardiola. “He is a fantastic coach, but I have won two Champions Leagues. He has won one Champions League and that is one that would embarrass me.” Barcelona released a statement saying they were considering filing a formal complaint to UEFA.

It was an ugly conclusion to an ugly encounter that featured at least one moment of iconic beauty. Having already scored Barcelona’s opening goal, Messi played a lazy one-two with Busquets and bore down on an increasingly panicked Madrid backline, sending bodies scampering as he squirmed the ball past Iker Casillas a few minutes from time. The two sides would draw the return leg, and Barcelona celebrated its place in the final by dancing in the center circle and applauding a sold-out Camp Nou crowd that had risen to its collective feet. It was euphoric and joyous, and allowed for a sense of relief that one of the biggest and intense periods of this rivalry—maybe the biggest—had concluded. And that, as they say, was that.

Except it wasn’t and it never would be again. Those four Clásicos in 18 days poured fuel on an already heated and rich rivalry, steeped in sport, politics, and nationalism, and then set it alight and turbocharged it beyond recognition. Each of the four games was more volatile than the one that preceded it. It was as beautiful for some of its football as it was enraging for its antics, continuously whipped further and further into a frenzy and then whipped some more. It was exhausting; fuck, it was exhausting. For fans, for players, for coaches, for the media. Watching all four matches back recently, it was like if Game of Thrones had run four continuous episodes featuring the “Battle of Winterfell,” each one with more dragons, more carnage, and higher stakes.

The animosity didn’t fade after those 18 days. Their next meeting, less than four months later, in the Spanish Super Cup, showed that the anger had not subsided. Deep into stoppage time of the second leg, Madrid fullback Marcelo scythed down Cesc Fàbregas right in front of the team benches. Both benches cleared; Marcelo was shown a straight red, and the customary brawl between players, coaches, and subs ensued.

It was a pretty shocking display of brutal hostility and it was about to get worse. During the melee, Mourinho, unprovoked, walked up behind Barcelona assistant Tito Vilanova and hooked a finger into his eye. As Vilanova pushed him away, Mourinho raised his chin and gave a defiant smirk. The season hadn’t even yet fully begun.

Those 18 days seemed to break both clubs. Guardiola would leave in 2012, exhausted. Mourinho would leave not long after, his reputation taking hits that he never truly recovered from. It was as if it broke everyone involved: Madrid broke Mourinho, Mourinho kind of broke Guardiola, and Barcelona and Real Madrid kind of broke each other. Real Madrid secured La DĂ©cima three years later and won another three Champions Leagues between 2016 and 2018. Barcelona added another treble in 2015. But as I’ve written before, neither really got over those four ClĂĄsicos. It was, for them, the best of times, and also the worst of times.

We're in the midst of the 10 year anniversary of the 4 Clasicos in 18 days.  As a Barca fan, I was pissed they dropped the Copa and missed the chance at another treble.

I watched the first Clasico that season, the 5-0 Barca win, in the Placa de Font in Tarragona, which is just down the coast from Barcelona.  People were going nuts and after the game there was a big celebration with fireworks, cars parading around honking their horns, etc. /csb

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