Trump Impeachment 2: Insurrection Boogaloo

[SquishMitten 10403]

It also doesn't explicitly say Elin Musk can't be King.

Wtf? When did it become ok to just make shit up and claim the Constitution allows for it because it doesn't address it.

Go watch the first day of the impeachment. They covered this in great detail. As noted by someone above, the answer is not crystal clear (as is the case with most law, thus the reason for lawyers and judges). BUT one interpretation allows for a clear process while the other interpretation provides an enormous loophole.

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

*Sic
*Barr
*Chao

Just correcting my typos. 

[Buzzrock 14918]

3 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Quoting myself from five days ago.

Not sorry I skipped most of it and sat on the ledge with hot cocoa. Keeping sane is going to be a challenge.

 

 

Turn off 24 hour news, Twitter, and CR. Spend your time with real people as much as you can. Boom, sanity restored. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

11 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Turn off 24 hour news, Twitter, and CR. Spend your time with real people as much as you can. Boom, sanity restored. 

Don't watch the 24 hr shows, don't have social media account but I have lessened the doom scrolling; my time with real people is better since I pissed off the neighbor by laughing at her statement that AOC is going to be running this country and that Biden/Harris are coming for her guns. Everyone else is cool.

But thanks for the tips; I'm sure I will manage as long as seditious minded real estate agents stay out of the neighborhood.

[RomaVicta 29905]

19 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Mitch McConnell wants Donald Trump out of politics without making his members vulnerable to challenges from the right.

He walked that line today.

I will enjoy watching that line open up into a fiery abyss for Moscow Mitch and the party he holds more dearly than anything anything! else.

Plus, he's not walking a line. He told us he reached this profound and honest conclusion after a night of deep reflection about the Constitution about which he cares so much. I can see his troubled, chinless face in the firelight as he gazes at his framed posters of Jeeezus and Lincoln all earnest and such. 

I think I'll go to the zoo today and watch in awe and admiration the leopard changing its spots.

You cooked it, Mitch. You and your pals can eat it up.

[RomaVicta 29905]

19 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Investigate Elaine Chow and her dealings that favored her family business. Maybe should’ve used that as a bargaining chip with Moscow Mitch. 

Uncover the entire criminal enterprise known as the GOP.  That will be righteous. It will also further inflame Trumpists against the GOP.

Trump slept they base.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20395]

17 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

GOP are freaking first ballot HOF'ers at marginalizing women.  If she starts to get in the way of a Rafael or HitlerHawley, she'll be marginalized.

Ivanka will run as a Democrat.

[tantric superman 4667]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Why would I? We all knew the outcome before it started - just like the trial in To Kill a Mockingbird.

Because most lawyers would be moderately interested in the process and presentation.

It was repetitive, but given that some of the work product from the Dems didn't completely suck, it was somewhat encouraging. 

[RomaVicta 29905]

4 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Quoting myself from five days ago.

Not sorry I skipped most of it and sat on the ledge with hot cocoa. Keeping sane is going to be a challenge.

 

 

I watched just about the whole thing. It was like watching Texas destroy Colorado in the 1995 Conference Championship game except Texas was declared the loser because of the unnecessary roughness call. The only difference was, a lot of people thought this would likely happen.

Snacks and McConnel are easily beaten back by evidence presented by the brilliance of the house managers.

One bit of evidence: in the times of the Founders, all actual impeachments involved persons having left office. 

Second bit of evidence: John Quincy Adams stated that he considered himself a possible subject of impeachment so long as he live. There was much more. A person should have listened to more than the arch-cynic, -liar, -traitor, Mitch McConnel.

The house managers' oratory and command of their case was beautiful and interesting to watch. Their arguments were not in the least diminished by the scorn, theatrics, occasional incompetence, and disingenuousness of the defense.

To watch all of it is to fully appreciate just how shameless those who voted not guilty are. Not only shameless, but completely unconcerned about the fate of the republic when held against their own fates as office holders.

This was an attempt to overthrow the institutions of US government. This was a murderous act organized by the kind of person we facilely label as a "madman" in totalitarian states. 

A final time:

 Schiff is a great man. He took on an even more difficult attempt to preserve the republic which came to inevitable failure.

He was the shining beacon on a hill trying to warn the republic to steer away from the shoals and fatal reefs. He is Cassandra who saw the future but whom no person would believe. 

As the rocks shatter the hull, it will be bitter for him and us to take satisfaction in having been proven correct.

My lifetime likely won't be long enough to see the final fall. If I'm possessed of my faculties many years from now as death approaches, I'll be sad to be the begginning of the end of living memory of a democratic America. I have no children, but I will lament for the generations left with this broken, selfish, self-destructive country. 

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33869]

36 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Ivanka will run as a Democrat.

aw fuck, I hadn't considered that

[Brisketexan 105095]

Because most lawyers would be moderately interested in the process and presentation.
It was repetitive, but given that some of the work product from the Dems didn't completely suck, it was somewhat encouraging. 

Meh. I’m a trial lawyer. I know what pissing in the wind - even highly skilled pissing - looks like. I’ve done a good bit of it myself.

I looked at snippets to get a feel of the presentation and execution. But it’s all a sideshow.

The real action is in the result. I’ve had a SCOTX judge approach me personally and tell me what a great job I did on a particular case....that I lost. And I told him “that’s nice, thank you, but I lost.” He said “well, yeah, the statute was against you, but you did all that any lawyer could with your position.” I thanked him again, and told him “I’m sure you understand that my sole metric is the result.” He understood.

I’m a big fan of fighting for the lost cause. But not because I accept the loss. It’s because I’m willing to put in 100% for the 1% shot at winning. Shit, that’s what Atticus Finch did - he knew how it was going to turn out, but his duty was to leave it all on the field. The prosecution did that, good on them. But they lost, like they were always going to when the jury is made of co-conspirators of the defendant.

[Brisketexan 105095]

Because most lawyers would be moderately interested in the process and presentation.
It was repetitive, but given that some of the work product from the Dems didn't completely suck, it was somewhat encouraging. 

Meh. I’m a trial lawyer. I know what pissing in the wind - even highly skilled pissing - looks like. I’ve done a good bit of it myself.

I looked at snippets to get a feel of the presentation and execution. But it’s all a sideshow.

The real action is in the result. I’ve had a SCOTX judge approach me personally and tell me what a great job I did on a particular case....that I lost. And I told him “that’s nice, thank you, but I lost.” He said “well, yeah, the statute was against you, but you did all that any lawyer could with your position.” I thanked him again, and told him “I’m sure you understand that my sole metric is the result.” He understood.

I’m a big fan of fighting for the lost cause. But not because I accept the loss. It’s because I’m willing to put in 100% for the 1% shot at winning. Shit, that’s what Atticus Finch did - he knew how it was going to turn out, but his duty was to leave it all on the field. The prosecution did that, good on them. But they lost, like they were always going to when the jury is made of co-conspirators of the defendant.

[henrygandorf 29189]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It’s because I’m willing to put in 100% for the 1% shot at winning. Shit, that’s what Atticus Finch did - he knew how it was going to turn out, but his duty was to leave it all on the field. 

dude, spoiler that shit.

[scottsins 1966]

Because most lawyers would be moderately interested in the process and presentation.
It was repetitive, but given that some of the work product from the Dems didn't completely suck, it was somewhat encouraging. 

I’m a lawyer, and did not watch, because that “trial” is not at all even tangentially related to a legal proceeding”. It’s a special political “thing” but there sure as shit isn’t any “court stuff” happening.

I would have watched if Katie Porter was up there with her whiteboard, but that’s about it.

[Red Five 40852]

32 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

It was like watching Texas destroy Colorado in the 1995 Conference Championship game

That was the famous "roll right" game, where a scrambling Vince Young hit Randy Peschel to seal the game. 

[Brisketexan 105095]

That was the famous "roll right" game, where a scrambling Vince Young hit Randy Peschel to seal the game. 

Wrong. It was Owen Wilson.

[wildcat09 29349]

Man, Snacks' commitment to being wrong about the constitutionality of conviction is weird. I'll grant TwiceHorn's contention that there isn't really a definitive answer, but I don't think it's remotely reasonable to read into the Constitution the language that Snacks imagines is in there. And for any originalists, if the plain reading of the text and historical practice aren't sufficient, the historical record of the founders' intent on this is pretty clear. The Constitutional convention opened while the British parliament was impeaching Warren Hastings, who had resigned two years earlier from his position as the governor of Bengal. The Hastings impeachment was quite literally their model for crafting the our constitutional language about what warranted impeachment. There wasn't really any debate over whether someone could be impeached after they'd left office. In fact, there was more debate over whether the power of impeachment should be permitted to be used to remove people from office, as some delegates thought permitting removal from office would give the legislature too much power over the executive.

There's literally no good-faith reason to think that the Senate couldn't have constitutionally convicted Trump. Snacks is good people, but he's falling for some bullshit on this.

[washparkhorn 9939]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I’m a big fan of fighting for the lost cause. But not because I accept the loss. It’s because I’m willing to put in 100% for the 1% shot at winning. Shit, that’s what Atticus Finch did - he knew how it was going to turn out, but his duty was to leave it all on the field. The prosecution did that, good on them. But they lost, like they were always going to when the jury is made of co-conspirators of the defendant.

I worked for a trial titan polymath who would not touch a case unless he had a guarantee from the client of no settlement. As part of his trial team, it made our jobs much easier and it kept us focused on the task at hand.

I understand what you are saying about this prosecution (which I support and applaud). The case was presented well, but it was missing a signature smoking gun that would have made it impossible to vote for acquittal. 

The sideshow jurisdiction issue gave a lot of Senate turds an easy way out.  The prosecution needed a short . . . sharp . . . dagger to cut off that escape. 

Easy to monday morning quarterback it, but much more difficult to put into motion in such a short amount of time. 

[wildcat09 29349]

The same GOP senators would’ve voted to acquit even if there had been a smoking gun. 

[washparkhorn 9939]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

The same GOP senators would’ve voted to acquit even if there had been a smoking gun. 

They are craven - no doubt. 

[tchookem 3900]

Snacks is good people...

Is anyone on this site?

[tantric superman 4667]

36 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I’m a big fan of fighting for the lost cause. But not because I accept the loss. It’s because I’m willing to put in 100% for the 1% shot at winning. Shit, that’s what Atticus Finch did - he knew how it was going to turn out, but his duty was to leave it all on the field. The prosecution did that, good on them. But they lost, like they were always going to when the jury is made of co-conspirators of the defendant.

I think you just made my point.  Some people are willing to put 100% of their effort into a lost cause.  When that happens, it's worth watching, even if the results aren't achieved.  I thought the Dems did a nice presentation, and I learned the names of a couple of folks who I didn't know who I thought were good "impeachment lawyers".  (Joe Neguse, for instance.)  Sometimes something is worth viewing just for the craft.

I understand they lost, but you went off indicating there would be no reason to watch it. 

[tantric superman 4667]

33 minutes ago, scottsins said:

I’m a lawyer, and did not watch, because that “trial” is not at all even tangentially related to a legal proceeding”. It’s a special political “thing” but there sure as shit isn’t any “court stuff” happening.

Well, hat's off to you. 

The trumpy folks who pollute my social media feeds didn't watch either.  So you're in good company.

 

[Gatorubet 30211]

Because most lawyers would be moderately interested in the process and presentation.
It was repetitive, but given that some of the work product from the Dems didn't completely suck, it was somewhat encouraging. 

I gave it good marks for making a narrative that would resonate with many independent and a few old school GOPers left (if there are any).

If it makes MAGA ID/continued loyalty a negative thing in even 4-5% of those watching, it will have served a valuable purpose, any maybe save a senate win or two - or wind up being the difference in a narrow purple state electoral college victory.

If the Turtle had voted to convict they well might have found enough spines to have done it. But just because it turned into the expected Kabuki Theatre does not mean the exercise was without value.

Managers did a good job. Better than I’d hoped.

[Goredho 17399]

19 hours ago, immamac said:

Fuck everyone in the senate. Trash american government for trash americans. 

If you are a longhorn and support this, you need to find another site. I'm done fucking around with this absolute garbage. Fuck every single person that supports insurrection against the United States of America. 

Seriously fuck you if you would have voted to acquit. Stop coming to the site. Stop pretending that you care about anything that actually matters. Caught dead to rights with an acquittal is the death of everything we hold dear in a democratic government. Fuck fuck fuck. I'm so mad.  

I said elsewhere that after Charlottesville, everything else in Trump’s tenure could be predicted if you just assumed the worst from him and the GOP up until the aftermath of the January 6th insurrection attempt.  The brief attention paid to the good of the country by the GOP at that time gave me a bit of hope, but now we are back to everything being predictable if you just assume the worst of them.  Thank God voters stripped them of their hold on the federal government and that Trump was unsuccessful in invalidating the fair and lawful election that he lost bigly.

And so it is that Trump’s fall is only the end of the beginning.  Nevar forget 01/06/2021.  Never forget that the GOP would not do what they could to ensure it never happens again.  Remember it at the ballot box in 2022, 2024 and beyond. Remember it until the Republican Party fully purges itself of Trump and all he represents, or until they cease to be.

[TwiceHorn 31450]

30 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The same GOP senators would’ve voted to acquit even if there had been a smoking gun. 

Yep, it could have been Racehorse, Jamail, Edward Bennett Williams, Clarence Darrow, and good David Boies for the House and Chelsea Davis for the defense and with every smoking gun and razor sharp dagger and it would have been a lost cause.

[Biff Tannen 45673]

1 hour ago, Goredho said:

Remember it at the ballot box in 2022, 2024 and beyond. Remember it until the Republican Party fully purges itself of Trump and all he represents, or until they cease to be.

This is really all we can do.  I worry that we won't have enough Americans that heed this advice.

[washparkhorn 9939]

1 hour ago, Goredho said:

Never forget 01/06/2021.  Never forget that the GOP would not do what they could to ensure it never happens again. Remember it at the ballot box in 2022, 2024 and beyond. Remember it until the Republican Party fully purges itself of Trump and all he represents, or until they cease to be.

Amen.

[RomaVicta 29905]

2 hours ago, Red Five said:

That was the famous "roll right" game, where a scrambling Vince Young hit Randy Peschel to seal the game. 

Excellent.

The sad thing is that I had already "corrected" it from some other wrong year. 

[Pig Bellmont 8712]

Trump got away with a literal attempt to overthrow our government. The past 11 defense secretaries felt necessary to take out an op Ed to tell the military not to get involved. We lucked into barely avoiding live executions of politicians directed by our president. And he’s going to run again if he doesn’t die first 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33869]

28 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Trump got away with a literal attempt to overthrow our government. The past 11 defense secretaries felt necessary to take out an op Ed to tell the military not to get involved. We lucked into barely avoiding live executions of politicians directed by our president. And he’s going to run again if he doesn’t die first 

this would be a good time to have someone that is a cross between the Zodiac Killer and one's of JFK's assassins.

[mchookem 16327]

55 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Trump got away with a literal attempt to overthrow our government. The past 11 defense secretaries felt necessary to take out an op Ed to tell the military not to get involved. We lucked into barely avoiding live executions of politicians directed by our president. And he’s going to run again if he doesn’t die first 

 

[tx 3 putt 76905]

1 hour ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Trump got away with a literal attempt to overthrow our government. The past 11 defense secretaries felt necessary to take out an op Ed to tell the military not to get involved. We lucked into barely avoiding live executions of politicians directed by our president. And he’s going to run again if he doesn’t die first 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

1 hour ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Trump got away with a literal attempt to overthrow our government. The past 11 defense secretaries felt necessary to take out an op Ed to tell the military not to get involved. We lucked into barely avoiding live executions of politicians directed by our president. And he’s going to run again if he doesn’t die first 

 

[Brisketexan 105095]

 

Which part do you disagree with? Do tell.

[Biff Tannen 45673]

4 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

 

[Brandywine 1316]

On 2/13/2021 at 3:15 PM, Dr. Teeth said:

Also, 75 million will be 80 million by the summer. 

I’m so sick and tired of hearing about the 74 million, like they’re the only ones that matter or the only ones that voted. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Brandywine

[hpslugga 4058]

43 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Which part do you disagree with? Do tell.

The part where his feewings got huwt because someone said something meanie butt about Trump.

[TwiceHorn 31450]

28 minutes ago, Brandywine said:

I’m so sick and tired of hearing about the 74 million, like they’re the only ones that matter or the only ones that voted. 

The real question is whether the post-election shitshow, like the pandemic, convinced some of the 74M or some of the sit-on-their-asses to change their vote or actually vote, as well as keep the energy level of the 81M high.

[pyrohornIII 4814]

McConnell didn't have the spine to get rid of Trump, but definitely wants the GOP shed of his orange ass.    He's setting him up for something bigger, and something the Dems will be taking full responsibility for.   Reich spells it out down below.   But McConnell and the GOP need to hold together their party somehow.  If they can get Trump out of the way without too much blood, they have a chance.  They know that if they convicted him, it would be the end of the GOP power for a good long while.   This was the only way forward he had to save the GOP.   Not saying they are worth saving, or he's right for trying, or for him putting party over country.   Just saying that if he can be rid of Trump by letting the Dems go after him, he might can rally the GOP back away from the MAGAs.

 

The Dems on the other hand knew they had no chance of conviction, but a) needed to go through the procedures, b) needed to get GOP on record and c) wanted to do it quickly so they could pursue more solid means of holding Trump (and his crew) accountable.   Perhaps calling witnesses would have jeopardized some legal moves they intend for near future moves.

 

 

[Brandywine 1316]

The thing that gets me is, did Trump really think through all the months of fabrication of his own made up lies, that in the end he would eventually win and the election would be overturned? 

[Satchel 6938]

52 minutes ago, Brandywine said:

I’m so sick and tired of hearing about the 74 million, like they’re the only ones that matter or the only ones that voted. 

Other than the votes cast in swing states, the remainder of the 74 million votes really didn’t matter. Our system works that way by design.

[Js1 85311]

1 hour ago, Brandywine said:

I’m so sick and tired of hearing about the 74 million, like they’re the only ones that matter or the only ones that voted. 

Jesus Christ yes. 

[Tom 2959]

Aquitting Trump has completely emboldened his supporters.  A woman I know who was obviously into Q but never said it out loud just posted a photo of batman looking up at the bat signal, but it's "Q" instead of the bat signal.  I've seen more pro-Trump memes in the past 24 hours than I have since 2016.  You'd think he was still president with how much they are celebrating.  We probably need to all brace ourselves for the very real possibility that he runs and wins the GOP nomination in 2024.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Tom

[David Dennison 18854]

2 minutes ago, Tom said:

Aquitting Trump has completely emboldened his supporters.  A woman I know who was obviously into Q but never said it out loud just posted a photo of batman looking up at the bat signal, but it's "Q" instead of the bat signal.  I've seen more pro-Trump memes in the past 24 hours than I have since 2016.  You'd think he was still president with how much they are celebrating.  We probably need to all brace ourselves for the very real possibility that he runs and wins the GOP nomination in 2024.

There is no one who will come close to challenging him for the Republican nomination in 2024.

[Brisketexan 105095]

Aquitting Trump has completely emboldened his supporters.  A woman I know who was obviously into Q but never said it out loud just posted a photo of batman looking up at the bat signal, but it's "Q" instead of the bat signal.  I've seen more pro-Trump memes in the past 24 hours than I have since 2016.  You'd think he was still president with how much they are celebrating.  We probably need to all brace ourselves for the very real possibility that he runs and wins the GOP nomination in 2024.

Possibility?

Your optimism amuses me. You mean “certainty.”

[Tom 2959]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Possibility?

Your optimism amuses me. You mean “certainty.”

 

Fuck me, you and @David Dennison are both right.  I desparately wanted to believe this shit was behind us.  It's not.

[Brandywine 1316]

15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Possibility?

Your optimism amuses me. You mean “certainty.”

So if Trump runs again how does that play well for Cruz, Hawley, Rubio and Haley? VP?

I guess they feel like they have to use Trump’s playbook and only appeal to 40% of the country. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Brandywine

[tx 3 putt 76905]

cruz - out, he doesn't need cruz to carry texasa

rubio - out, same as above but fl will be much closer than tx

haley - she just burned that bridge

hawley - younger, smarter than trump. so he's out

 

[Biff Tannen 45673]

2 hours ago, Brandywine said:

I’m so sick and tired of hearing about the 74 million, like they’re the only ones that matter or the only ones that voted. 

Well, in their minds, that's exactly what it is.  

Edited February 15, 2021 by Biff Tannen