Trump Impeachment 2: Insurrection Boogaloo

[burntorangebongos 10826]

8 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

This needs to be asked of all those who vote not to impeach.   But they'd most likely answer with something like: "I'd abstain because to do that on the 15th would not have given Trump enough time to mount a defense."    No technicality is off limits in order to avoid doing the job their oath demands. 

When they vote to not impeach, will that then protect him from other prosecution under double jeopardy?

What are the odds they go after some of his family and people like MyPillowGuy through the channels you speak of?

The house voted to impeach, the senate votes on whether to convict, just to clarify. This is not a criminal trial so it doesn't protect him from prosecution from the courts. It can affect the outcome of that trial because aside from it being a political trial to punish him with rebuke, this is also the court of public opinion. Also,he will be barred from holding office ever again.,

If they fail to convict him,, then I dont know if they can still bar him from holding office. I'm not sure on that.

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19455]

17 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

They are not colleagues. They are sworn enemies.

[aggie08 21807]

1 hour ago, NAVY said:

They did .5 to 1 hour worth of Pence assassination  late afternoon yesterday. 

I just wish someone would ask why, if Trump wasn't the major instigator of this riot, the mob was targeting Mike Pence. Who else, if not Trump, put a bullseye on his back?

[Hookah Horns 3089]

34 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

American history will have been folded into the fallen empires of the industrial and information ages curriculum. 

While the Cold War dominated the global landscape during the middle and late 20th century, both of the key powers would no longer exist by the middle of the 21st century.  20th century historians believed that the USA had won the Cold War. Modern historians now all agree that Russia won the Cold War and place less focus on the devolution of the USSR. Russia, no matter the name it went by, had an almost unbroken chain of fascist leadership for 100 years through various country names. Its hard to imagine the currently sparsely populated Russia being a power, or that the many warring nations of North America were once one country. Or that the popular dive site of Miami was once a bustling city on land. But this is the reason why the remaining nations decided to implement strict laws against disinformation. 

😮 That's some dark shit, homes.

[Red Five 41739]

I don't mean to be a broken record here, but I sure wish they'd spend a little more time talking about the time Trump ordered a state to falsify election results so he could overturn the election he lost. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 34106]

Dumb question alert:

could the Senate D's have created a rule during the beginning that barred any of those who are seen as instigators or participants in the insurrection (Cruz, Hawley, etc) from participating in the trial? is that still something that could happen? Then you only need 9 senators to convict. I dunno, dumb high break thought.

[Longhorn_Fan68 34106]

1 minute ago, Red Five said:

I don't mean to be a broken record here, but I sure wish they'd spend a little more time talking about the time Trump ordered a state to falsify election results so he could overturn the election he lost. 

I believe that would have to be a separate article. I think they're letting GA take lead on that one

[Hookah Horns 3089]

35 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

The house voted to impeach, the senate votes on whether to convict, just to clarify. This is not a criminal trial so it doesn't protect him from prosecution from the courts. It can affect the outcome of that trial because aside from it being a political trial to punish him with rebuke, this is also the court of public opinion. Also,he will be barred from holding office ever again.,

If they fail to convict him,, then I dont know if they can still bar him from holding office. I'm not sure on that.

 

There's chatter about using the 14th amendment, but that seems dubious at best to me. I don't know how that would even go procedurally, and probably nobody else does either.

Would probably require a lawsuit seeking to enjoin him from being sworn in following his victory in 2024, the trial court finding that yes he engaged in insurrection, and ultimately SCOTUS blessing it. Good luck with all that. 

[GopherRock 1773]

Someone should be saving this portion of the trial, solely because the MAGA crowd is calling Capitol and DC Metro police officers traitors.

[SquishMitten 10497]

2 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Dumb question alert:

could the Senate D's have created a rule during the beginning that barred any of those who are seen as instigators or participants in the insurrection (Cruz, Hawley, etc) from participating in the trial? is that still something that could happen? Then you only need 9 senators to convict. I dunno, dumb high break thought.

Allowing the majority party to unilaterally determine which senators were allowed to vote would destroy the legitimacy of an impeachment vote. It would essentially guarantee that the majority party could get to the required percent of votes to convict. Only way to bar those folks would be to have them removed from office first.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

39 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I just wish someone would ask why, if Trump wasn't the major instigator of this riot, the mob was targeting Mike Pence. Who else, if not Trump, put a bullseye on his back?

Exactly what I asked this morning--I have a very limited understanding of the free speech background, but weren't there two cases, Brandensomething or other and another one that had to do with a racial boycott and they were both based on the lack of a specific target by the speaker/inciter? Trump called out the VP more than once during his build up and the crowd specifically called out the VP. That they didn't succeed should be IMO, immaterial.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Mrs Whiggins

[SquishMitten 10497]

I like what Lieu said... I'm not worried about him winning in 2024, I'm worried about him losing and doing all of this again.

[Hookah Horns 3089]

7 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

I believe that would have to be a separate article. I think they're letting GA take lead on that one

You could be right for all I know, but it's not apparent to me why it would have had to be separate. It's all part of the same scheme and course of conduct that incited the insurrection. 

[jimmyjazz 47218]

59 minutes ago, Js1 said:

12 current GOP senators voted to impeach or convict Clinton for lying about a blowjob

Crapo - voting to impeach AND voted to convict

How does that work?  Was he a Representative during the hearings but a Senator once the trial started?

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

4 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

Allowing the majority party to unilaterally determine which senators were allowed to vote would destroy the legitimacy of an impeachment vote. It would essentially guarantee that the majority party could get to the required percent of votes to convict. Only way to bar those folks would be to have them removed from office first.

Or, they could have done what Al Franken did and stepped down .

Did you know that Roger Stone was involved in those initial allegations regarding Franken? (that is not to say that Franken was a choir boy as subsequent people spoke up, but Roger sure does get around at convenient times in history).

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2692]

Lester Holt's head is gonna float away if it gets any bigger....freakish balloon-head. Sorry, Les.

[Js1 87187]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

How does that work?  Was he a Representative during the hearings but a Senator once the trial started?

He was! If you recall, the impeachment was held during the lame duck period after the 1998 midterms and the impeachment vote was held on December 19, 1998. 

The Senate trial began on January 7, 1999.  He was sworn in as Senator prior to the Senate trial beginning. 

[Hookah Horns 3089]

48 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I just wish someone would ask why, if Trump wasn't the major instigator of this riot, the mob was targeting Mike Pence. Who else, if not Trump, put a bullseye on his back?

They'd probably cite the Lincoln Project's Pence ad that set dotard off about him in the first place. And I'm sure there were other nutcases in right wing media pounding the table about that. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Hookah Horns

[aggie08 21807]

1 minute ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Exactly what I asked this morning--I have a very limited understanding of the free speech background, but weren't there two cases, Brandensomething or other and another one that had to do with a racial boycott and they were both based on the lack of a specific target by the speaker/inciter. Trump called out the VP more than once during his build up and the crowd specifically called out the VP. That they didn't succeed should be IMO, immaterial.

Obviously, the MAGA crowd had Jan 6th targeted as the next "Big Date" with or without Trump, but I remember them being pretty ambivalent about Pence. He released a statement that the Constitution didn't allow him to deviate from his duties, and that was pretty much that. It wasn't until Trump started tweeting and questioning his courage to act that he became a traitor worth hunting down.

[B00M 6734]

Have they covered how trump delayed the national guard and who was at fault for the unprepared capital police? I think theyve already made the case, but proof on either of these fronts feels like the final nail.

[B00M 6734]

This is ~4 years old but i just remembered it... Poor piglet.

Edited February 11, 2021 by B00M
Pence is Piglet.

[hayden_horn 11402]

1 minute ago, B00M said:

Have they covered how trump delayed the national guard and who was at fault for the unprepared capital police? I think theyve already made the case, but proof on either of these fronts feels like the final nail.

that's what i'm waiting for. admittedly, i haven't really had time to watch today, though.

also, trump's lawyer just went on fox and stated that he didn't believe that they "would need to be out there a long time" whatever that means

[GopherRock 1773]

NBC reporting that the defense will only be using tomorrow to present.

If this was a criminal proceeding the defendants should be preparing for a guilty verdict.

[DigglerontheHoof 21552]

4 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

that's what i'm waiting for. admittedly, i haven't really had time to watch today, though.

also, trump's lawyer just went on fox and stated that he didn't believe that they "would need to be out there a long time" whatever that means

It means Rep senators are spineless cunts. 

[aggie08 21807]

6 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

that's what i'm waiting for. admittedly, i haven't really had time to watch today, though.

also, trump's lawyer just went on fox and stated that he didn't believe that they "would need to be out there a long time" whatever that means

It means exactly what you think it means. They'll replay the part of his speech where he says "peacefully" a dozen times, bumble around a bit, and then drop the mic. Probably to applause.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

15 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Obviously, the MAGA crowd had Jan 6th targeted as the next "Big Date" with or without Trump, but I remember them being pretty ambivalent about Pence. He released a statement that the Constitution didn't allow him to deviate from his duties, and that was pretty much that. It wasn't until Trump started tweeting and questioning his courage to act that he became a traitor worth hunting down.

I disagree. Trump got on board with the Jan 6th date back in December; recall that the Women for America First or whatever that org was that applied for the permit at the Ellipse. That group initially was going to march after the 20th and then moved it to the 6th. Why? Why did they move it?

Roger Stone was the OG StopTheSteal creator. He had that going back to 2016, his PAC launched it back then and fundraised off of it. He then resurrected it in 2018 for the midterms and again in 2020, but it got removed by Facebook only to resurface (thanks Steve Bannon) and get shut down and resurface. Shared over and over again, it was too late to thwart the disinfo. And Amy Kremer who chairs that group above, is friends with Stone's ex-wife.

So, they targeted Jan 6th as the next 'Big Date' specifically FOR Trump because there is NO WAY IN HELL IF ROGER STONE WAS BEHIND IT THAT TRUMP DID NOT KNOW AND SPEAK ACCORDINGLY. Stone had nothing hanging around his neck-his sentence was commuted, he'd been pardoned the week before, everything was great.

Pence's statement did not matter, Trump needed them to go after him not only because of the vote, but because he was the second in succession, followed by Pelosi. In order to effectively activate the coup, they had to at least try to grab one or both of those two.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Mrs Whiggins

[Red Five 41739]

They don't need to be out there at all. Just stand up and say "nuh uh", sit back down and then hold the vote. It doesn't matter. 

[mchookem 16769]

the case being made here is so good, so linear and easy to follow, so thorough, so well put together and articulated...and it's all for nothing and today i'm just really feeling down about it all. 

Lindsey's proclamation to FOX last night that he'd checked with his colleague's and Trump has nothing to worry about (or whatever he said along those lines, i saw it referenced but didn't watch myself)...

how, HOW could this be, how did we get to this point, where this simple and overwhelmingly evidenced case is just a waste of time because half of the Senators that they are making the case to are not even paying attention. worse, they are making a spectacle of not paying attention.

they want us to know they cannot even be bothered.

these House managers are killing it, they've put together what could easily be a strong criminal case...and they are wasting their time. 

obviously i'm being rhetorical. some days it just really hits me that we've fallen THIS far. 

i don't understand this country i live in. 

[TexasEd 8266]

1 hour ago, mchookem said:

it seems like at some point - it might have actually been on Jan 6 during the actual 'objection' debate - i heard some commentary about that.

i think it was in the House where the guys almost came to blows? i recall some commentary about how you aren't really supposed to actually call anybody out by name or something - not necessarily a 'rule' but a custom/protocol. 

but at this point fuck custom/protocol, how much of that have they already tossed out? i mean, some of these fuckers encouraged an angry mob to attack their colleagues, fuck protocol. i'd be calling out mfers left and right. 😡

That was because they R's did not like being called liars. It was over their proliferation of the Big Lie to their constituents.

[Js1 87187]

7 minutes ago, mchookem said:

the case being made here is so good, so linear and easy to follow, so thorough, so well put together and articulated...and it's all for nothing and today i'm just really feeling down about it all. 

Lindsey's proclamation to FOX last night that he'd checked with his colleague's and Trump has nothing to worry about (or whatever he said along those lines, i saw it referenced but didn't watch myself)...

how, HOW could this be, how did we get to this point, where this simple and overwhelmingly evidenced case is just a waste of time because half of the Senators that they are making the case to are not even paying attention. worse, they are making a spectacle of not paying attention.

they want us to know they cannot even be bothered.

these House managers are killing it, they've put together what could easily be a strong criminal case...and they are wasting their time. 

obviously i'm being rhetorical. some days it just really hits me that we've fallen THIS far. 

i don't understand this country i live in. 

Jake Tapper said he spoke to 6 GOP senators off the record who didn’t agree with Miss Lindsey’s assessment 

[NameAlreadyInUse 5169]

Well that's the problem, right?  Off the record they all agree he's guilty.  It's getting them to agree he's guilty on the record that will prove LadyG correct.

[Sawbonz 28225]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

12 current GOP senators voted to impeach or convict Clinton for lying about a blowjob

Blunt - voted to impeach
Burr - voted to impeach
Crapo - voting to impeach AND voted to convict
Grassley - voted to convict
Graham - voted to convict
Inhofe - voted to convict
McConnell - voted to convict
Moran - voted to impeach
Portman - voted to impeach
Shelby - voted to convict
Thune - voted to impeach
Wicker - voted to impeach

The most disgusting thing about this is there are still senators who held seats 20+ years ago. 

[Js1 87187]

2 minutes ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

Well that's the problem, right?  Off the record they all agree he's guilty.  It's getting them to agree he's guilty on the record that will prove LadyG correct.

Yes but Lindsey's comments reek of desperation.  

[immamac 44368]

So is this just a fucking circle jerk or what? I haven't been watching. Is it basically they are just putting people's shit on blast and the conclusion is just pre-determined? There isn't witnesses or any senators getting directly called out?

[TexasEd 8266]

15 minutes ago, mchookem said:

the case being made here is so good, so linear and easy to follow, so thorough, so well put together and articulated...and it's all for nothing and today i'm just really feeling down about it all. 

Lindsey's proclamation to FOX last night that he'd checked with his colleague's and Trump has nothing to worry about (or whatever he said along those lines, i saw it referenced but didn't watch myself)...

how, HOW could this be, how did we get to this point, where this simple and overwhelmingly evidenced case is just a waste of time because half of the Senators that they are making the case to are not even paying attention. worse, they are making a spectacle of not paying attention.

they want us to know they cannot even be bothered.

these House managers are killing it, they've put together what could easily be a strong criminal case...and they are wasting their time. 

obviously i'm being rhetorical. some days it just really hits me that we've fallen THIS far. 

i don't understand this country i live in. 

Which is why Fox News won't cover it.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Just now, immamac said:

So is this just a fucking circle jerk or what? I haven't been watching. Is it basically they are just putting people's shit on blast and the conclusion is just pre-determined? There isn't witnesses or any senators getting directly called out?

I WISH there were witnesses. Every R would refuse though and it would drag on for days.

[Longhorn_Fan68 34106]

is it too late for a secret vote? I'd honestly prefer the lesser of two evils here - never knowing how they voted versus Trump being able to run again in 2024. And don't worry, if he's acquitted, he'll start his campaign that very day. How he'll reach his audience is still a mystery, but he'll try

Edited February 11, 2021 by Longhorn_Fan68

[TexasEd 8266]

6 minutes ago, immamac said:

So is this just a fucking circle jerk or what? I haven't been watching. Is it basically they are just putting people's shit on blast and the conclusion is just pre-determined? There isn't witnesses or any senators getting directly called out?

The Republican supporters are in a news blackout because they watch Fox which has spent more time talking about the Dallas Mavericks and the MMA chick on the Mandalorian the last 3 days not a bit of honest coverage of the trial.  

"We don't need to show you the trial we'll just tell you that it is unconstitutional and a waste of time, besides, ANTIFA.

That is the message their viewers get.

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by TexasEd

[lemonlime 5503]

Was a decision made on whether there will be witnesses?  I thought that this was just opening statements.  And afterward they would decide whether to also call witnesses.

[B00M 6734]

8 minutes ago, immamac said:

So is this just a fucking circle jerk or what? I haven't been watching. Is it basically they are just putting people's shit on blast and the conclusion is just pre-determined? There isn't witnesses or any senators getting directly called out?

I'm holding out hope that some Rs will shock the world... But yeah it's probably just a circle jerk.

[hayden_horn 11402]

22 minutes ago, mchookem said:

the case being made here is so good, so linear and easy to follow, so thorough, so well put together and articulated...and it's all for nothing and today i'm just really feeling down about it all. 

Lindsey's proclamation to FOX last night that he'd checked with his colleague's and Trump has nothing to worry about (or whatever he said along those lines, i saw it referenced but didn't watch myself)...

how, HOW could this be, how did we get to this point, where this simple and overwhelmingly evidenced case is just a waste of time because half of the Senators that they are making the case to are not even paying attention. worse, they are making a spectacle of not paying attention.

they want us to know they cannot even be bothered.

these House managers are killing it, they've put together what could easily be a strong criminal case...and they are wasting their time. 

obviously i'm being rhetorical. some days it just really hits me that we've fallen THIS far. 

i don't understand this country i live in. 

yeah, it's fucking discouraging as hell. i still think it is in their best interests to cut trump loose, but they have information that must indicate otherwise. reminds me of this british fuckstick:

why do they have to be such smarmy twats about it all?

7 minutes ago, immamac said:

So is this just a fucking circle jerk or what? I haven't been watching. Is it basically they are just putting people's shit on blast and the conclusion is just pre-determined? There isn't witnesses or any senators getting directly called out?

the republicans don't care. they just don't. their fucking desks were looted, but they won't vote to convict because they have built themselves a prison of their racist voting base.

[Captainant 28547]

24 minutes ago, immamac said:

So is this just a fucking circle jerk or what? I haven't been watching. Is it basically they are just putting people's shit on blast and the conclusion is just pre-determined? There isn't witnesses or any senators getting directly called out?

It's not a circle jerk - the republicans are keen to let trump get away with it scot-free so that way when the second insurrection attempt goes down they can stand on precedent of "aw shucks, it's ok like it was last time". Looking at the historic signposts of other fascist regimes coming to power, we're really just a major economic collapse away from all the pre-reqs being checked off.

Seriously - read up on mussolini's march on rome, or hitler's beer hall putsch and subsequent rise to power. It's rarely the first attempt that succeeds, but after they recover from it with the protection and backing of (sometimes unwilling) political allies and operatives. We've literally seen what happens at the end of this road before. We're gonna fuck around and find out anyways.

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2692]

Naguse is a Big Gesturer.  He good though, as is Raskin.

[Ghost of LL 15698]

40 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

yeah, it's fucking discouraging as hell. i still think it is in their best interests to cut trump loose, but they have information that must indicate otherwise. reminds me of this british fuckstick:

 

Say what you will about Jacob Rees-Mogg, but the tailoring on that suit is out-fucking-standing.

And I really appreciate his efforts to bring back the double-breasted suit.  It's a great look.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

24 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Say what you will about Jacob Rees-Mogg, but the tailoring on that suit is out-fucking-standing.

And I really appreciate his efforts to bring back the double-breasted suit.  It's a great look.

Mentally changing username to Ghost of the Tailor of Panama.

[mchookem 16769]

Trump's lawyer wanted to skip the weekend (per FOX) lol

Edited February 11, 2021 by mchookem

[Hagbard Celine 11257]

2 hours ago, Hookah Horns said:

😮 That's some dark shit, homes.

fascient fiction you want?

much dark we can get

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Does anyone know who the 15 Senators are that didn't show up today? If Ted and John were among those 15, I'm done calling, Maybe I will try the Shawshank letter writing campaign. It won't do any good, but I will feel better about it.

[Hagbard Celine 11257]

2 hours ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

Well that's the problem, right?  Off the record they all agree he's guilty.  It's getting them to agree he's guilty on the record that will prove LadyG correct.

do they want to burn in hell for eternity?

[Dahobbs 18325]

7 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Does anyone know who the 15 Senators are that didn't show up today? If Ted and John were among those 15, I'm done calling, Maybe I will try the Shawshank letter writing campaign. It won't do any good, but I will feel better about it.

Something to note, we had 56 Senators vote that the trial was constitutional. If 15 Senators don't show up for the vote on conviction, then we have 85 Senators. The 2/3rds needed for conviction: 56.6. That is quite the coincidence. . . or is it?